-13 votes

Jesus was crucified on a chestnut tree

Jesus was crucified on a chestnut tree

It was the hardest wood found in the area of the Roman Empire

Why I say this truth to you?

So just you know for many seasons
I was selling hot roasted chestnuts in Vancouver
Food prepared with Love
Food blessed with Love

One man told me

You can't change the world you can only change yourself

I told him
No
I can change the world

They called me the Polish Prince
No
I am the Prince of Peace
All wars will stop because of my aflamed fingertips
My aflamed hands

***************************

I dedicate this poem to Barack Obama.
Peace Brother!

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Foxes book of Martyrs

records that in 1517, seven people were burned at the stake by the Roman Catholic Church for the crime of teaching their children to say the Lord’s Prayer

Who?

Who was burned by whom and where did it happen? The Lord's Prayer is recited at every Catholic Mass so that claim sounds a tad strange.

thats a bit of an

thats a bit of an oversimplification.

"In 1511–12, some 74 Lollards appeared before the court of the Bishop of Coventry and Lichfield, most of them from Coventry and the surrounding area.[4] It is likely they were interrogated either at the bishop’s manor at Maxstoke, or at the Greyfriars monastery in the city itself.[5] Those who confessed were forced to sign an abjuration, to be read by the accused bare-legged and bare-headed in the Cathedral. However, the bishop’s campaign appears to have been unsuccessful, and the following year nine people were burned in the city, most of them individuals who had abjured and done penance the previous year, but had since returned to their sincerely-held Lollard views. Records suggest that the possession of Protestant literature, and of the Scriptures in English (illegal at the time), were a significant part of the case against them.[6]

to put it in context,

"At first, although Lollardy was denounced as a heresy, Wycliffe and the Lollards were sheltered by John of Gaunt and other anti-clerical nobility, who may have wanted to use Lollard-advocated clerical reform to acquire new sources of revenue from England’s monasteries. ...

"Sir John Oldcastle, a close friend of King Henry V (and the basis for Falstaff in the Shakespearean history Henry IV), was brought to trial in 1413 after evidence of his Lollard beliefs was uncovered. Oldcastle[7] escaped from the Tower of London and organized an insurrection, which included an attempted kidnapping of the king. The rebellion failed, and Oldcastle was executed. Oldcastle's revolt made Lollardy seem even more threatening to the state, and persecution of Lollards became more severe. ...

so what did the protestants do once they shattered the unity of the christian clergy and congregation?

List of Catholic martyrs of the English Reformation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Catholic_martyrs_of_the...

"Catholics in England and Wales were executed under treason laws. ...

"The standard penalty for all those convicted of treason at the time was execution by being hanged, drawn and quartered...

"General Oliver Cromwell, England's military dictator (1653–58) launched a full-scale military attack on Catholics in Ireland, (1649–53), killing thousands, seizing their lands and settling Scots in their stead. Catholics lost all political rights for two centuries.[42]

Context?

"...[Foxe's book] was used to fuel strong anti-Catholic propaganda ...

"its grotesque stories of popes and monks, contributed to fuel anti-Catholic prejudices in England

"Later several accusations fueled strong anti-Catholicism in England including the Gunpowder Plot, in which Guy Fawkes and other Catholic conspirators were accused of planning to blow up the English Parliament while it was in session...

It was more than mere religious intolerance, on both sides. In both cases, the religious dissent was aligned with movements to upset political order and abet revolutionary political and economic movements.

Persecution generally only followed refusal to abjure the beliefs and activities in question, and was not wholesale slaughter.

Foxes book of Martyrs

was critical of more than just the catholic church. The catholic church was the most criticized because because it was a state church in the most countries, for the longest time. The reason why it persecuted everyone so heavily is because it had a government imposed monopoly and was doing its best to keep it.

Oliver cromwell attacked catholic ireland after they attacked England. Oliver Cromwell attacked catholic scotland after they attacked England. The reason why those two countries were catholic was because that was the state religion. Its interesting to note that he made religious freedom for every group but catholic's. Once he was made Lord Protector of England he was reported to have sent a letter to the vatican saying that if they did not stop the inquisition that they would hear his cannons. So for 5 years the inquisition paused all over europe.
Even if you dont like him he really was a fascinating character worth studying.

and yet

And yet millions of people in America do experience the holy spirit. I think you need to ask yourself why you don't.

Also you need to learn history.

Why spew such vitriole?

I find it very interesting that you feel bold enough to write on this post, yet totally ignore the post "Does the DP have members who are Islamic or Muslim?".
http://www.dailypaul.com/296719/does-the-dp-have-members-who...

Why aren't you expressing your hatred and intolerance for religious beliefs on that post, lambasting muslims for believing anything written in their book? For their belief that if they die in jihad there'll be 77 virgins awaiting them? Huh? Why not?
OH! Not so brave now?!

You've fallen into the trap of this day and age: it is perfectly justifiable to disparage the beliefs of Christians, but not of muslims, when NEITHER should be disparaged. Who is the one who's been brainwashed?

If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
James Madison

Muslims are brainwashed too!

Christianity is by far the most popular mythology that Americans have gotten trapped into believing is true and christianity is what I was indoctrinated with growing up. I don't have any friends of the Muslim faith but I've got many friends that are self proclaimed christians. Thats why I try and help people break free of the christian delusion...but the Muslim religion is just as impossible and insane as christianity.

There is no God in heaven looking down onto earth and answering prayers. Both common sense and statistics plainly reveal this. The miraculous intervention of the divine does not exist. You might as well be talking to your favorite stuffed animal. The choice is yours. Perhaps you should flip a coin.

indoctrinated?

It is entirely possible to be indoctrinated with the truth. From a lot of your posts, it seems you get indoctrinated with a lot of false ideas and are in fact repulsed by the truth.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

Hmmm

So you don't even now what the text says happens but you are credible to debunk it? Oh where can I get wisdom like yours, but in every crack house, dorm room, or gas station on the planet?

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

I don't think that being

I don't think that being entombed in a cave and being buried underground is much of a key difference. One doesn't have to study the practice of Jewish burial to know that the resurrection of a dead body is questionable.

Check out http://ronpaulforums.com for activism and news.

my point

is that the person whose post I was responding to was obviously not educated on the Bible or Jesus or the resurrection and as such is not one to be listened to about that very subject.

The resurrection of a dead body is indeed questionable and questioned by many. That is why it is called a miracle. But if you study the subject, there is historical evidence to support that it happened.

You don't have to believe, and if you want me to show you that it absolutely had to happen with such a degree of evidenc ethat you can't deny it, that can't happen, and won't happen. If you investigate it in good faith, and want to know the truth, you might find hte answer surprises you.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

Complete bullshit.

And you should be called out for it. There is ZERO historical evidence of dead flesh ever becoming alive again. It is you who are not educated on the bible or jesus or the resurrection.

nope you're wrong

you are incorrect

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

Sorry

There is exactly zero historical evidence that it happened. If you have some you would be the first ever.

"In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."--Mark Twain

Plenty of historical evidence

You might be looking in the wrong places.

Bring it on

I've been looking for a long time. So has every apologist for about 300 years. Like I said, if you have evidence you would be the first person - ever. You would become beyond famous! Think of the Million$$!

And no, you cannot use the Bible as evidence or the Josephus forgery.

If you want an good neutral interpretation, the book "The Jesus Mysteries" is a good read.

"In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."--Mark Twain

Odd

You want to decide what we use as evidence?

Not at all

I am open to any evidence.

But, the Bible is not a reference for history. It is a religious text, interpreted from oral history and translated numerous times. The earliest Gospel was written 70 years after Yeshua supposedly died. And, in the most basic form of logic, you cannot use the Bible to prove the Bible.

"In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."--Mark Twain

look into it yourself

if youre serious about it you'll find it.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

Obtuse

Of course I have looked into it. And I was very serious. If you have anything new, I'm all ears.

"In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."--Mark Twain

well

I'm not impressed by your attitude or your approach. The Bible itself says (not in these words, but the concept is there) that not all will understand it. Not everyone understood Jesus, who spoke in parables.

But I am a logical thinking person, and a Mensa member with a doctorate degree. So don't tell me how smart you are.

I looked into it, and came to a certain conclusion. But of course, my goal wasn't to glorify myself on internet boards.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

Well...

If you are so learned, please offer some evidence. I took the Mensa Test and could have been a member. Your strawman of my "approach" is noted. If you actually did research, you would know that many of Jesus' parables were copies of other "godmen" like Krisha and Dionysus.

There is no historical evidence for Jesus/Yeshua being crucified, or even their existence.

A good "beginners" book for you would be "The Jesus Mysteries" which demonstrates how Jesus is an amalgam of Gnostic and Pagan figures. Another great read is "The Christ Conspiracy" - it breaks down the Hebrew Astrology behind much of the Bible symbolism.

"In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."--Mark Twain

number one line of b.s.

is when someone says they "took the mensa test". In this day and age, unless you are a crusty old fart, you would not need to take the mensa test if you were mensa material. Most people qualify based upon their test results from standardized tests like the lsat, sat, etc. So I call bullshit, though admittedly, only about an 85% chance of being utter bullshit by you.

Further evidence that this is bullshit is that you misunderstand that Mensa is a group of high IQ persons, persons with tested high intelligence. Intelligence doesn't equate to learnedness. That you equate it with such means that you don't have a very good understanding of what intelligence is. That too is doubtful in a person who is Mensa material. (Hey, you put it out there!).

If Jesus' parables were similar to that of other figures revered as "gods" rightly or wrongly, that doesn't prove or disprove Jesus'es divinity.

Your statement that "There is no historical evidence for Jesus/Yeshua being crucified, or even their existence." is grammatically incorrect to the point of being unclear what you are trying to communicate. But I'll break it down because all of the possibilities are false.

Possibility number one is that you are trying to say there is no evidence of Jesus being crucified. This is simply incorrect. If nothing else, you have the eyewitness accounts of the four gospels. Whether you believe Jesus is God or not, or discount them, they are indeed "evidence". Also, there is evidence in the accounts of Jesus appearing to people after his resurrection, but your post focused on the crucifiction itself.

Possible interpretation number two of your babbling is that you are saying there is no evidence that Jesus existed. This is false as discussed ad nauseum here and everywhere else. No legitimate scholar whether Jewish, Christian, or Atheist doubts Jesus the man existed. There is a Jewish sect whose writings not only acknowledged Jesus, but acknowledged he performed miracles, but still ultimately concluded he was not the Messiah by some twisted logic.

If you are on the other hand trying to say that crucifictions never took place, that is incorrect and there is immense historical record of that.

If you are saying that Jesus and yeshua are not the same person, you are again wrong. They are simply alternate pronunciations and spellings of the same name.

Thanks for playing though!

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

You are dissembling

First, I did take a test - an IQ test I guess, long ago. A older Mensa member thought I fit the bill after seeing some of my standardized test scores and gave me some sample test. I do not remember details and yes, long ago. Sorry I'm not an expert on the group.

As far as the parables, it's not the divinity in question. The parables are much older that Jesus, if he existed. It does question the validity of the Bible and the source of the text. If Jesus is a myth (my contention), then the parables would still be there from an earlier source.

No, the Gospels are not "eye witness" accounts of anything. The earliest one was written 70 years after Jesus was supposedly crucified and we have no idea who the authors are. There are also no non-Biblical accounts. If you want to make a claim about an event with no accounts outside of your religious text, that is fine. But, then you have to agree that any event in any religious text is just as valid. No, sorry, you cannot use the Bible as evidence that the Bible is valid. It is obvious by pushing Bible accounts you have no evidence outside of it.

As far as your "scholars" point. I do not say that I know a man named Jesus didn't exist at that time. It is perfectly reasonable to acknowledge that is a possibility. And, it is also possible this Jesus person had a following and rebelled against the Romans. And, it is further plausible that this person was crucified as a punishment. That is all an atheist scholar would agree to. But, that also doesn't make it true. Plausibility is not evidence. As I said initially, there is no evidence that any of the Bible stories is true. Zero, zilch, nada. (unless you try to use the forged Josephus thing). There are many "atheist scholars" that believe it is mythology. You just made that up - but that's OK, I'm used to that kind of behavior from Christians.

I never said crucifixions didn't happen. There is much evidence for that.

Jesus/Yeshua are not "alternate pronunciations". Yeshua was the original name before it was translated into Greek. The change was based on numerology. "Jesus", in Greek, adds up to 888 - which is a perfect musical octave. As opposed to 666 - which is total dissonance. It was based on Pythagoras' theories.

It is painfully obvious that you are not learned, read, or even logical. I'm glad I didn't pursue the Mensa thing.

"In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."--Mark Twain

oooh dissembling

and you use that $2 word yet call me a phony. Pot, meet kettle.

If you made your point clear I wouldn't have had to debunk multiple interpretations of your mush. If you want to quibble over the meaning of "alternate pronunciation" or say that a written account of an event 70 years earlier cannot be reliable, go ahead. To me, it makes you foolish. You're so busy trying to not believe that you're not looking at the evidence that exists impartially. That is hard to do.

If you want to believe that you are superior to Christians and that they're all stupid, go right ahead. I know too many people like you who later convert. But go ahead, keep babbling about musical octaves. That's really a logical place to go, after all.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

And......name-calling.

I am not "superior" to Christians. A Psychiatrist would call that projection. I would never say all Christians are stupid, of course not. I, unlike you, do not demean and degrade people when a disagreement first appears.

I don't "try" not to believe. I just don't. It is not complicated. And, I frankly never think about either my non-belief or other's believing until a topic like this comes up. It is not a lifestyle, or a philosophy. I just don't have a belief that you do.

That's okay. Go in peace. But trust me, I will never convert, I had my de-conversion years ago.

"In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."--Mark Twain

really?

You accuse me of name calling but don't cite any name that I called you. I guess that sums up the substance of what you have to say. Personal attacks on others because they don't agree with you, but still, where's the beef, sonny?

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

"I am a logical thinking person, ....

.... and a Mensa member with a doctorate degree.
So don't tell me how smart you are."

Wow,.... that is easily the most pretentious post of the year.

Hard to stop laughing.

laugh it up

I consider the mommys basement experts on law/foreign policy/metallurgy/economics posts to be far more pretentious and ridiculous, and there's plenty of htose here!

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

Sure we are.

The literal jesus story is equal to the literal santa claus story. They are allegories twisted to sound literal for one thing, control. You would know a little about control hanging around these parts, wouldn't you?