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Feeding the Homeless Illegal in Raleigh NC. "You pass out that food, you will go to jail."

This morning we showed up at Moore Square at 9:00 a.m., just like we have done virtually every Saturday and Sunday for the last six years. We provide, without cost or obligation, hot coffee and a breakfast sandwich to anyone who wants one. We keep this promise to our community in cooperation with five different large suburban churches that help us with manpower and funding.

Today officers from Raleigh Police Department prevented us from doing our work, for the first time ever. An officer said, quite bluntly, that if we attempted to distribute food, we would be arrested.

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Now there's a worthy reason to be arrested!

I understand why the good folks chose not to, but there is a precedent in Scripture for either creative alternatives to following an order, (involving negotiation- Daniel chapter 1) or disobeying (Daniel 6).

"Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern." ~~C.S. Lewis
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

our church is involved in a . . .

feed the homeless Sunday supper--

one church has volunteered to be the central meeting place for all the homeless, etc.

Then each church takes a Sunday; our church has several Sundays/year, because everyone takes a turn--

it is true that the other places that feed the hungry aren't open on Sundays--

We (our family) often contribute food, and we are as careful with the preparation of the food as we are for the food we prepare for our own family--

the food goes from wherever volunteers prepare it (including just picking things up pre-made at the store)--

to the church kitchen in the basement--

there is a drop off time, and volunteers take care of the kitchen and make sure that everything runs smoothly.

To my knowledge nobody has ever gotten sick--

the program has been running for years--

it would never occur to anyone in our church or in the community to have to have permission, but then the supper is taking place inside a church--

in our area of the country there is possibly less religious conflict--


most churches aren't aggressive in proselyting, and the homeless have no qualms about going into the church--

it's an effective program--

I never realized that it could be such an issue--

Perhaps the church that is feeding these people is not nearby--

maybe they should go to the Salvation Army, but maybe they don't want to be affiliated with the Salvation Army--

we used to donate a big pot of soup to the Salvation Army weekly, and then we heard that the workers/employees were enjoying the soup and not giving it to the hungry--

there has been some corruption with the Salvation Army--

I hate to make blanket accusations, but--

there is also a warming center in our community that Catholic Charities operates--

they invite families/individuals to bring in food--

There is another church that has a Tuesday night supper for anyone in the community who wants/needs food--

where the members of the church 'mingle' with the needy/hungry people; more families with children are using food pantries, etc.--so this church has responded in a way they feel is helpful--

they invited people/individuals to bring food in, prepared food, from their home kitchens--

Nobody has questioned this, but then we are a medium sized town in a largely rural area--

Nobody questions this any more than they would question eating the food at a church picnic--

the difference is that the homeless are invited in two cases--

Catholic Charities will let us bring in prepared foods, even from our own kitchen, for the warming center--(people who don't qualify to go to Salvation Army sleeping center)--

so far we have only taken non-perishables, but that might change as the weather gets colder--

so far there have been no problems--

but, perhaps, when the community is smaller, and people know each other--

there are fewer problems. I don't know.

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

There is a Salvation Army and

There is a Salvation Army and the Raleigh Rescue Mission right next to the park. On the block east of Moore Square.,-78...

deacon's picture

what's your point?

homeless can only eat/walk/or hang out in your approved routes?
ones unseen by the hard working people?
apparently the rescue mission and the salvation army aren't feeding them
so someone else stepped up to the plate

Leave an indelible mark on all of those that you meet.
OH... have fun day :)

Thanks for this. I sheds much

Thanks for this. I sheds much more light. Seems people can change things, after all, and I am glad to see the support.

~ Maybe the well developed

~ Maybe the well developed business community. Called the cops?
-- who carry the weight of local taxes and who provides jobs.
-- and also contribute to the Salvation Army and The Rescue Mission located RIGHT NEXT TO THE PARK.
-- maybe they are tired of busting their butts to attract commerce to an area that allows the shopping cart crowd to openly express their sense of entitlement by plopping down anywhere they like.
~ It's unfair to expect those who work hard, risk capital and exert effort to create an orderly, pleasant environment to just let people hang out with no regard for others.
~ Maybe these hard working producers went direct to the local police and asked for patrols to keep the area from becoming a settlement?
~ I've been homeless and I've worked with homeless and I know they will just keep taking and taking unless someone intervenes and says, "It's time to contribute."
~ The politicians will pander and say, "Oh there, there now. Raleigh is pro homelessness. Those cops were naughty." Bull!

I understand your concerns--

but when there are children involved, it does take on complications it wouldn't otherwise. Yes, children can work, but parent/child relationships are . . . what they are.

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--


Not telling you 'why' is very strange...I would take the time to find out exactly what the law says. Arm yourself with the truth - got any lawyers that are like-minded and could give some pro-bono direction?

The law cannot make a wicked person virtuous…God’s grace alone can accomplish such a thing.
Ron Paul - The Revolution

Setting a good example is a far better way to spread ideals than through force of arms. Ron Paul

Get a vendor permit

Then, put out a "take a penny cup" and sell your stuff for 1 cent.

by feeding the poor you take away some of the state's control

over them.

Fork them! Start a community

Fork them! Start a community garden.

Seems to me

That there's more to this story. Laws are changing.. I feed the homeless.. to do that, I had to pay to pass a HACCP class ($156.00), an operator's permet ($250.00), now everyone needs to have a HACCP certificate ($10.00 each), and the county EPA has the right to inspect at will, the kitchen, the people, everything.

If you did not know these laws are in effect, than my guess is this would become a surprize. But if I was you, I would go to the health department as ask about it.

It is not free to feed the homeless. While some food is from the food bank and donations from charitable organizations, this too is accounted for. And when the food becomes short, as it does from time to time, it comes out of my pocket and those who care enough to contribute.

And the Nazi Republicans helped make those so called laws.

I would like to know how all them permits are constitutional? If they are not then the permits are unlawful!It just another example how Republicans and Democrats hate the rule of law.

So you really like the "nazi republicans"?

Was Ron Paul also a "nazi republican"? You like the "Nazi Republicans" so much the way they are is that why you stay out of the "nazi Republican" party? Or do you think you're too good to roll your sleaves up and clearn up the party?

I think you have a good question. I don't know if the permits are constitutional. I imagine they are, like having a permit to drive a car, because the food comes from subsidized food bank.

Why not find out and if they are not constitutional, join the Ron Paul republicans in the "nazi Republican" party to clean it up. Together we might be able to eliminate the "Nazi" part of it.

It is a waist of time to work in that party.

Come over to a party that loves liberty. That the Libertarian Party! We don't use fraud or f.u.c.k the American people to gain power. The Republican Party is half the problem that is killing our Republic!



So you think

everyone should have a "permit" to do what should be free? Do you need a "permit" to fix your family dinner? Can you make yourself a sandwich without a "permit"?

verb \pər-ˈmit\

Definition of PERMIT
transitive verb
1: to consent to expressly or formally
2: to give leave : authorize
3: to make possible
intransitive verb
: to give an opportunity : allow

Why should you need the states authorisation to GIVE food to hungry people?

And, didn't the Nuremberg trials say that "just doing what I was ordered to do" was not an excuse? The cop wouldn't tell the lady what law/code they were violating - perhaps because he didn't know of any?

What makes you think it is "free"?

There is nothing "free" about feeding people. No one who participates is worthless. The building is not free, fees can be waived, but never taken advantage, it must be served.

I see Churches who do not have my principles and they fall apart, start charging people, have conflicts, close down.

What you feed your family is your business. What you feed to the public is not. It is a business. Non-profit is still business.

Have you ever been to a food bank? Do you understand how the food bank operates? Do you think people are not paid? Do you think they do not have laws they have to abide? I have contracts to do my VOLUNTEER job. I have contracts with the food bank. I have limits they set, what I can have, how much I can have. Some rules I think are silly, like when they give me products that many will not eat, like 5 cases of apple sauce.. and I make all kinds of things with apple sauce, cakes, BBQ sauce, gelatin salads, and I do my best to make food for the toothless, for diabbetics, low fat, low salt, low sugar, gluten free.. I can't afford to have anyone ever get sick. ONE sick person can shut this operation down.

Weren't Nuremburg Trials about mass murders? This is not about mass murders. This is about feeding people and as far as I'm concerned, IF you really want to feed the PUBLIC, you have the obligation to step up and do what it takes to get the job done.

Sure it would be much easier to just let people who never wash their hands make sandwiches and pray that no one gets sick.. but if all I have is a prayer, statics show, I don't have much and am playing with fire..

Maybe the cop didn't know.. I'm pretty sure the cop was ordered by the County Health Department and didn't enjoy or agree, but PRAYED, the people cared enough to go back to the county health department and get a Temp. permit, have at least one volunteer take responsibility, and get back to doing a community service that make everyone feel good.

What you give to someone is

What you give to someone is no one's business but the two parties involved.

Please come join my forum if you're not a trendy and agree with my points of view.

True, unless

you are using a facility that has to pay insurance, mortgage or rent, pay taxes, a kitchen the feeds the public MUST be inspected, and you accept food donations from a non-profit or government sponcered food bank.. then you must abide by the laws.

And what happenes if someone you gave food to got sick and died?

Think you will not be charged with murder?

Yes, in today's dystopia, but

Yes, in today's dystopia, but I'm pretty sure most here are talking in terms of common law.

Murder requires an intent to kill. If someone dies from your tainted food, then others who ate the same batch are going to die, as well. It would be brushed off as an accident after an investigation easily determines that you were not at fault.

Please come join my forum if you're not a trendy and agree with my points of view.

it would not be brushed off

Ot would be man slaughter, and if you can live with that, what kind of conscious do you have? I could not live with that. If my food accidently killed someone, it would defiantely kill a big part of me.

That's you. Accidents

That's you. Accidents happen. Having to live with a death is punishment enough for some. Law need not punish a person over a pure accident and make a person suffer even more.

Please come join my forum if you're not a trendy and agree with my points of view.

face palm..... what should be free is the ABILITY to feed

the poor an unfortunate. Having to pay money to the state to be charitable is simply ridic. No where in that guys comment did he imply that there is no cost to providing people with food. Obviously it had to be paid for by someone at some point. Not to mention people's time and energy. The person was referring to idea that charity should be FREE from the state....not just economically speaking.

The he does not understand the state

Ever hear the phrase, "There's no free lunch"?

Isn't it clear to most folks here who "The State" is? Isn't clear yet, that whether it's Bush or Obama, they are just saying what's on the telepromter?

The way I see it, and maybe because I've been doing it for sometime, there are a lot of cheats.. and from what the homeless tell me, the biggest cheats are those who do "nice things" in the name of the homeless.. volunteers who are really volunteering to get what they can out of it.. food banks workers see patterns, social workers hear stories... so as usual, good thing go because of a few bad apples.

I hope the volunteers get straight with the state and continue to feed the homeless.

I'm not payng the state

I'm not paying the state to be a good person. To help those in need is not a crime in my book.

That's one flawed way of looking at it

Homeless people have the right to have safe, healthy, food.

So, you are not trained, you don't have a certificate, you are not licensed.. you didn't know that the spinach you used for the salad you made had ecoli. 50 homeless people got sick from the salad you made, which was confirmed by the lab tests at the hospitals they all went to. Fifteen died. 20 are are so sick, they may die.

How good are you now?

These laws are being imposed because good people with good intentions unfortunately hurt the very people they believe they are helping. To you, it was food. To those who ate it, it was poison.

Because of my training, I know my rights, I know what to do and if there is a food product that is poison, I am able to track the source, supply information and become part of the solution.

What would you do? Fifteen people just died eating your food. What would you do?

"Homeless people have the

"Homeless people have the right to have safe, healthy, food."

This sounds a lot like the argument for universal health care. Are we so quick to forget that individuals, not groups, have rights? And that rights are based on property?

"Safe, healthy food" is not a right. If it were, nobody would pay or trade for it, and it would magically appear before us.

An individual does have the right to "have" (as in, possess) safe, healthy food, so long as it is that individual's property. It can become a person's property through production, trade, or through charity. Since it is wrong to force anyone to be charitable, it is logical to say that no individual has a "right" to food, healthy or not, no matter how homeless they are.

Let me help you

A kitchen is located on property that has inspections, fire codes, insurance laws, depending on the contract, refrigeration, energy bills..

The soup kitchen, even as a non-profit, has to be a registered organization, even if it's a church committee, it's under the umbrella of the church, so it still has to have insurance, fire codes, and paying taxes..

You have to be registered to pick food up at the food bank.. if you accept food from food drives from other non-profits, you still have to show you accepted food. It all has to be accountable.

If someone gets sick from a food born illness, they are going to sue, or here in CA, the hospital will sue.. if you are going to give free food, and this isn't just for homeless, I get people who are not homeless.. they are well aware the organic salads and meals are better than most restaurants.. they have a right to safe food, iow, I do not have the right to poison them, even in the name of ignorance.

This whole topic is about

This whole topic is about people actively going out giving homeless people food. This is not even about an establishment.

Please come join my forum if you're not a trendy and agree with my points of view.