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A Christian Case for Libertarianism

Okay, I've heard so many times that a person can't be libertarian and Christian at the same time. Well I'm going to make a case to prove those people wrong.

I'll start with my testimony.
My parents got divorced when I was 11 years old. It took its toll on my brother and I, especially at such a young age. In between the ages of 11 and 14, I became a porn addict. I turned to the things of this world: porn, lust, and profanity. But my 8th grade year, a girl that went to a school nearby got hit by a car walking distance from my house and died. Over the next few months, I started to look at my life differently and realized that I'm not living a holy, righteous life. But again, Christianity is not a list of dos-and-donts. It's not about what I do. It's about what God did. But anyway, my freshman year of high school, I gave up everything I got into and gave it all to God. I felt the presence of God (and I still do). It's amazing. Probably the best decision ever made.

Now I will make my case.
Of course, Libertarian views like supporting the Bill of Rights and being anti-war don't really conflict with Christianity, but do views of gay marriage, drugs, etc conflict? My answer is this: to an extent. In Libertarianism, it states that you have a right to your body and that you own your body. In Christianity, you have a choice. Either follow the ways of the world like I did or give up your earthly body to God. I made the choice to give up my earthly body. The key word is choice. God doesn't force you to love him or follow his ways, so why should the government? True Christianity isn't about forcing beliefs, because again, Christianity is not a list of dos-and-donts, because once a person receives salvation, the motives to do sinful things fade away (I know it from personal experience). I can't try to live a holy life without salvation, because it just flat out doesn't work without God. Of course, as a Christian, I can't support abortion, gay marriage, drug use, etc, but as a Libertarian, I can support getting the government out of marriage and legalizing drugs, but at the same time, I pray for the people who do drugs and who struggle with homosexuality. Just because I support legalizing something doesn't mean I support the behavior. I actually like the Just Say No campaign and I don't have a problem with groups like Focus On The Family that have a problem with homosexuality. But all in all, I don't support government intervention in these issues, because in the end, the question to ask is, "Is my life really different, despite these laws?"



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Here was my case, from LewRockwell.com

I Confess: God Might Be a Libertarian
By Thomas R. Eddlem
February 3, 2010

"God isn’t a Republican or a Democrat," a friend in my men’s prayer group said to me a while ago after temporarily posting his Republican political preference on his Facebook profile. This young friend uses Facebook primarily to evangelize on behalf of Christ, and was annoyed by a bunch of complaints from Democratic friends about how the Republicans opposed Christian principles such as favoring war and social justice.

"You’re right," I jokingly replied. "God’s not a Republican or a Democrat. But He might be a libertarian," But then I corrected myself and added, "Of course, I’m only half kidding about that."

Read the rest at:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/2010/02/thomas-r-eddlem/god-isnt-...

Thomas R. Eddlem

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.

Christains are suppose to

Christains are suppose to believe in free will. Christains are suppose to believe in tolerance. Christains are suppose to love thy enemy. Christains are suppose to be libertarian. Christains who aren't libertarians don't understand or care about christainity. They care what their neighbors and family call them. So they sit 2 hours every sunday in place where they don't listen and call themselves christain. I went to church at least once a week from the day i was born until the day i left my parents house (18). I witnessed this a lot.

true

but none of us have it all together, Christian or non-Christian, libertarian or non-libertarian.

Anyone or any church or any movement or group (yes, even libertarianism) that says it has all the answers is wrong and that is the first sign of bad thinking or a cult.

Where a lot of Christians go wrong is thinking that there has to be a law about everything that is considered a sin.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

I would like ,however, any

I would like ,however, any institutions that say they believe in free will and the golden rule have followers that exercise these beliefs. They don't have to follow my view of the world. Those 2 ideas are supposedly part of their institutions. But I do believe free will and the golden rule are very much the same as the principle of nonaggression. If free will and the golden rule are key parts of christainity and the principle of nonaggression is at the heart of libertaranism there should be lots of overlap. Not because I said so, but because people who follow christainity and libertaranism themselves profess to believe in them. And from my experience I have found that quite a few people (not all)who are christains are more concerned with being identified as a christain by others than actually having a sincere understanding of their institutions beliefs for themselves.

yep

That is definitely true...some of the biggest surface Christians I've ever met were from the bible belt.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

Decriminalization

not legalization

ChristianAnarchist's picture

Decriminalization =

Decriminalization = Legalization.

If it's not "prohibited", it's "legal"...

Beware the cult of "government"...

Don't think so

Legalization means that the law permits the activity. The activity might still nevertheless be subject to regulation and supervision/monitoring.

Decriminalization means that the activity is then regarded as a normal part of society.

Here’s the thing,

Liberty isn’t about what you get from it…..it’s what you give to it.
You said it yourself:

True Christianity isn't about forcing beliefs, because again, Christianity is not a list of dos-and-donts, because once a person receives salvation, the motives to do sinful things fade away (I know it from personal experience). I can't try to live a holy life without salvation, because it just flat out doesn't work without God.

The same is true for a life of “LIBERTY” ……Liberty is not something to achieve especially for yourself…..either by force or coercion, it is given to you by others not infringing on your way of life…..the same way you cannot force someone to be a Christian, Muslin or Jew. The GOD I believe in is a big enough God that salvation can come in many ways…..my heritage is a salvation by accepting the Gift. The turmoil that exists from our differences is because people want a bigger place at the table……not because we hate one another; people use the “State” or the “Church” to advance their own agenda. If they truly believed in “Liberty” ……YOU LIVE AND LET LIVE….If you really choose LIBERTY.....other peoples choices as a way of life should be protected by you not trying to impose your will and beliefs on anyone. Christ believed in Liberty…..in the truest form he offered you a gift of salvation for the only sin that you did not commit……the sin of brokenness……all the other sins are your own personal sins and are between you and your “maker’ who ever that maker is……..your Liberty is yours until you infringe on someone else’s Liberty then you lose yours as well.

Oh But There Is A Way

Oh, but there is a way that seems right unto men, but the word says, the end thereof, are the ways of death.

The problem lies in the fact that most!!!.... And I do mean "MOST" only claim a form of godliness, and have never had a true relationship with any god, lest we count all the time they spend talking to the devil who is only merely masquerading unto them as an angel of light! They live inside a darkness that so blinds them, they truly believe they are in the light. And they proceed to believe this god, calls and requires them to hate someone who has just had an abortion, or someone who lives a homosexual lifestyle, because in essence they are spiritually blind, and have not the slightest Idea what true love is, because they have been deceived by Satan!!......

OH NO, NOT ME THEY SAY!...... THEY COMFORT THEMSELVES IN THE MERE FACT THAT SO MANY OTHER SELF-PROFESSING CHRISTIANS, FEEL, AND SAY THE SAME KIND OF HATE FILLED THING THEY DO! AND THEREFORE, BECAUSE THEY THEMSELVES HOLD FAST TO THE BELIEFS OF THE MAJORITY OF THE "CHRISTIAN" WORLD, THIS IS THE VERY THING THAT PROVES THEY ARE IN RIGHT STANDING WITH GOD!...... But to all of you who believe this way I say this, the Bible tells us that Satan deceived the whole world! Now do you really think this doesn't include you and your church family?

Yahuwah, who is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, is the very essence of love! He is the author, the creator, the very originator of love!

Look, it's kind of like, you creating the very first light bulb, as a matter of fact, there was never anything called a light bulb before this creation of yours. Therefore you are the author, creator, and originator of it! This "Light Bulb" you've just created puts off the full color spectrum of the rainbow. In other words, if you were to turn on the switch, and direct this light through a prism, you could actually see a "COMPLETE", full colored rainbow up on the wall. It is a perfect light, and lacks nothing, it can't get any better! You have just given the definition of what a light bulb is, and if another form of light doesn't have the exact same qualities as your newly created, and named light bulb, then it's not a light bulb!!!

Now some years latter, someone comes along and creates one of those new squiggly screw in lights, yeh, it puts out light, but it is a pitiful excuse, because the light it emits a purple-ish looking light.

Now this new light is a much cheaper form of light, and most places just give em away anyway, so after a while as you might expect, most people forget what a real light bulb is, and people really love these because, even if the white T-Shirt they're wearing has got a few stains on it, this light makes it appear to be whiter than white! And what matters most, is that others see you as having on clean garments anyway, right!!....

Then many generations go by, and many kids grow up learning to call this thing a light bulb. They really and truly believe this thing is a light bulb, and no one can convince them otherwise, and why shouldn't they believe this, their Daddy, Grandpa, and their Great Grandpa have always called it a light bulb! To them this is something that is a matter of fact, because "EVERYBODY" calls this thing is a light bulb right?

But if someone were to hand one to you and ask, "Is this a light bulb?" You probably be sad at their ignorance, but at the same time, they wouldn't want your real light bulb, because under it's magnificent light, all their filth would shine forth, so they'd proclaim, "Naw, will just keep the light bulbs we have!"

LISTEN, THEY CAN CALL IT A LIGHT BULB ALL THEY WON'T, BUT THAT WILL NEVER MAKE IT SO, AND YOU CAN TELL ME THIS FORM OF GODLINESS YOU'RE PROCLAIMING IS LOVE, BUT IF IT DOESN'T LINE UP WITH GOD'S LOVE, GUESS WHAT, IT AIN'T LOVE, AND IT AIN'T OF GOD!!! THEREFORE YOU HAVE BEEN DECIEVED!

TRUE GODLINESS, AND TRUE LOVE DOES LINE UP WITH LIBERTARIANISM, BECAUSE NO GREATER LOVE CAN ANY MAN HAVE THAN SOMEONE WHO WOULD BE WILLING TO GIVE HIS OWN LIFE, FORTUNE, AND HONOR, FOR HIS FELLOW BROTHER!

And true love tells me that I don't have to agree with your decisions in life, but I do have to be willing to offer my life, in order to protect your freedom to choose how you wish to live. And because I believe I should have the freedom to worship where, when, and whom I choose, and I should have the freedom to live where I want, and eat and drink what I choose. I believe that "ALL MEN" were created equal in the eyes of MY GOD, without respect to race, religion, ethnicity, or the borders that make up the country you live in!!!

ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL! AND MY GOD BELIEVES IN FREEDOM & JUSTICE FOR ALL MEN, THEREFORE I BELIEVE IN FREEDOM & JUSTICE FOR ALL!

THE SON OF GOD DIED, THAT WE COULD HAVE THE LIBERTY TO FOLLOW HIM IF WE SO CHOOSE TO. BECAUSE THE LOVE HE HAD FOR HIS FLESHLY BROTHERS AND SISTERS REQUIRED AS MUCH OF HIM, AND HE GLADLY GAVE IT!

SO, "TRUE GODLINESS" AND LIBERTY ARE ETERNALLY TIED TOGETHER BY THE IMMUTABLE BOND OF LOVE.....LOVE GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOU LOVE YOURSELF!!!! MAYBE THEN WE WILL WE KNOW WHAT TRUE FREEDOM IS!!!!!

Uh, you kind of are forced to

Uh, you kind of are forced to love him. If you don't accept that life is some gift, but instead a curse, you burn forever, for something you didn't even ask for.

Please come join my forum if you're not a trendy and agree with my points of view.

Denise B's picture

If He forces people

to love Him, how come you don't? Our life's are gifts; however, we do get to decide what we choose to do with our gift. Some will choose to be thankful for their gifts and will bless others with their gift, while others will not. God doesn't force us to do anything, He tells us upfront what our choices are and what the end results will be and we make a choice. Isn't that the true core of Libertarianism? Make your own choices and then live with whatever the results of those choices are?

I agree with you

100%

That's your view on life. We

That's your view on life. We are certainly forced to exist. If there could be a death of the soul, fine, but you either burn for eternity, or go to heaven for eternity. You only have two choices for something you didn't even ask for. My life is not a gift. I hate it.

Please come join my forum if you're not a trendy and agree with my points of view.

Denise B's picture

Ramico,

that is so sad that you feel that way :( I know it's the last thing you probably want to hear, but God does love you even though you do not feel the same way about Him. He is a very kind, patient and graceful being and doesn't desire that any should perish, and that includes you. Don't close your heart and mind to Him, but tell Him you want to know and understand Him and His Son better and if you do so humbly He will answer you. Our God is a God who leaves the 99 to go after the 1. Every, single human being matters to Him, and that includes you too. I will keep you in my prayers.

I don't want any of that. I

I don't want any of that. I don't like anything positive. That's just not me. I don't want to matter. I just want to not exist.

Please come join my forum if you're not a trendy and agree with my points of view.

Denise B's picture

Well, I am

sad that you have reached such a bad point in your life that you wish not to exist, but the fact is Ramicio that you do. God can meet us wherever we are at and when we encounter Him he changes us from the inside out. He takes the bad and makes it good, he finds the lost and He revives the dead, especially the spiritually dead. As long as you are alive, you are never so far gone that God can't reach you right where you are at, but, as I alluded to earlier, you must take that first step toward Him (knock and I shall answer). A long time ago, I too was at a very bad point in my life where I did not feel all that different than you and I did not believe that God cared about me, much less loved me but I took that leap of faith and I can tell you from personal experience that there is nothing that God cannot do, cannot fix, cannot change and His love truly does go deeper than anything you could ever imagine. I will keep you in my prayers.

The bad point in life is that

The bad point in life is that I exist. I want to not exist. I don't want to be cared about or any of that nonsense. I just want to not exist. I don't want to just die, I want to not exist, anywhere, or any time. It's simple.

Please come join my forum if you're not a trendy and agree with my points of view.

You chose to be here

I'm very sorry to hear you say these things. You seem miserable. I hope you find the missionaries, so you can know that you have a purpose here on earth.

"Moderation in temper is always a virtue; but moderation in principle is always a vice." -- Thomas Paine

Denise B's picture

Don't confuse

not liking your choices with not have choices at all. If you are drowning in the ocean and I come to save you in a lifeboat and you choose not to get in the boat because you don't like me and then drown, that is not my fault, but the result of the choice that you made.

Bump!

"The god who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time: the hand of force may destroy, but cannot disjoin them."-Thomas Jefferson

"I have sworn on the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."-Thomas Jefferson

God do gives us a choice

God do gives all of us a choice between God's way and our own ways. But once we become a Christian, we have chosen God's way. And the Bible is very clear on who we belong to. Our bodies is the temple of the Holy Spirit. It is the temple of God. We need to be holy to be pleasing to God. We need to offer our bodies as scarifies to Him, that is the reasonable service for all of us Christians.

So the problem is this, Christians do not believe we have a right to anything. God has the right to everything, including our bodies, souls and spirits! But of course, He wants us to make a choice out of our free will. But that's just the right thing for us to do anyway! He won't expect us to do anything if that is not what is expected of us.

But libertarianism in essence is human/self focused. It talks about the individual rights. Christians is God/Christ focused. It talks about God's right and authority. So it's quite different from each other!

In any case, no earthly philosophy would be 100% compatible with Christian believes.

I don't see the point of this thread (hear me out first)

Libertarianism is based on liberty and that entails freedom of choice. A libertarian that says a person of *this particular religion* cannot be included be in libertarianism is not a libertarian at all.

That's the whole of libertarianism, to allow people of all different backgrounds their right to do as they please. There's no qualifications other than being tolerant of other's choices.

Social Conservatives

I just wrote this so social conservatives can hear me out on this issue.

Dr Paul on Biblcal Principles

Dr Paul laid out the Christian Case for Libertarianism very well during the previous election. He was speaking in terms of biblical principals and how, when avoided it creates bad conditions in today's society.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZYAJe273KQ

tasmlab's picture

Isn't your immortal soul up for grabs though?

You claim there is no force and it is all choice, but isn't the threat of eternity in hell quite a chunk of violence and force in the equation? Or the promise of living in the kingdom of god quite something to give or deny?

IMO, that sounds forcey to me. And given God's appetite for destruction and murder in the Old Testament, you'd have to believe He isn't screwing around. He did drown nearly the entire Earth's population at one point.

This is quite a comfort of atheism at least; knowing that this hovering and omni-present threat of the worst violence is all fantasy. The idea of eternal damnation makes nuclear annihilation seem quaint.

Currently consuming: Gatto: "Underground history of education..", FDR; Wii U; NEP Football

Eternal conscious torment...

...is only one of three Christian views of the punishment of the age to come, even if it has been the dominant one since the Middle Ages. St Gregory of Nyssa (who was largely responsible for the Nicene Creed and was a well-respected church father), along with many others in the early Church, believed that God's punishment was restorative in nature, not solely retributive. Personally, I believe that God is Love, that his justice is merciful and his mercy is just, and that therefore every action of judgement or punishment in the short-term of this life on earth and any punishment 'in the age to come' (which is actually a better translation of the Greek 'aionion' than 'eternal') will be for the purpose of drawing each person whom He loves back into reconciliation and restoration. He will not violate our free wills, but He will exercise His own free will to remove barriers between us and the Truth, until we flee sin and death and through Christ embrace becoming the real people we were always meant to be. And then as we become more His, we actually become more our own, as well. In tune with the fundamental reality of Love and Light, we will find an even grander Liberty than we could ever have dreamt of -- free from the evils and the death of this world which had been our shackles and chains. Love will win in the end -- and all shall be well.

Hell is...

an absence of God. God doesn't send people to hell.

It is the 'natural choice' of those who

do not want to be where He is. (BTW, you might be interested in a couple of Original DP articles on the same topic: Tom Mullen's Jesus Christ, Libertarian, and the piece linked from my tagline)

"Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern." ~~C.S. Lewis
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15