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Genetic Entropy: Is the Human Race Degenerating?

From The Truth Wins:

The human race is dying. It certainly won’t happen this year or even this decade, but the steady degeneration of human DNA would eventually lead to the total extinction of humanity given enough time. The reason that we are heading toward extinction is the increasing number of mutations that are being passed down from generation to generation.

According to Dr. John Sanford of Cornell University, every one of us already carries tens of thousands of harmful mutations, and each of us will pass on approximately 100 new mutations to future generations. Humanity is degenerating at an accelerating pace, and at some point the number of mutations will become so great that we will no longer be able to produce viable offspring.

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GoodSamaritan's picture

LOL - "bogus"..."hogwash"

Really? With respect to genetic entropy, there is no disagreement between Dr. Sanford and many well-known secular scientists who also hold PhD's in genetics.

From http://creation.com/genetic-entropy:

These experts in the field provide strong support for all the main points of my book …

Is man presently degenerating genetically? It would seem so, according [to] papers by Muller, Neal, Kondrashov, Nachman/Crowell, Walker/Keightley, Crow, Lynch et al.

But Kondrashov, an evolutionist who is an expert on this subject, has advised me that virtually all the human geneticists he knows agree that man is degenerating genetically. The most definitive findings were published in 2010 in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Science by Lynch. That paper indicates human fitness is declining at 3–5% per generation. I personally feel the average mutational effect on fitness is much more subtle than Lynch does — so I think the rate of human degeneration is much slower than he suggests — but we at least agree that fitness is going down, not up.

Maybe you should see who you're actually disagreeing with:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexey_Kondrashov
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_F._Crow
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermann_Joseph_Muller
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neal_L._First
http://www.genetics.org/content/156/1/297.full
http://www.nature.com/nrg/journal/v8/n8/abs/nrg2146.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Lynch_%28geneticist%29

Ron Paul - Honorary Founding Father

This is kind of bogus

Sexual selection usually outpaces mutation rates and drift for allele fixation. These deleterious events aren't being accumulated any faster than they are being lost.

This is hogwash.

Anytime a species has over 7 billion living specimens there is going to be tremendous genetic diversity.

That just means that there is a tremendous menu available for adaptation.

I do think it is possible that the species may split at some point, especially if the status quo has their way and an economic caste system is self imposed. But that is at least a century or two away.

God Bless.

Perhaps this possibility of

Perhaps this possibility of genetic entropy is why God made the human so diverse in our genetic nature?

Variety is the spice of life.

Not all succumb to fast food, pills, and television.

Not all follow the herd over the cliff.

We're still here, fighting for our lives every day, and that fight will never end because humans are too smart, too diverse, and too gifted with knowledge.

Life is amazing. Use it for good.

Never be afraid to ask simple questions.

Darwinists would say this is,

Darwinists would say this is, "natural selection," taking its course.

I highly disagree. The human race is not evolving, it's devolving in front of our own eyes with a little help from those who control the food, chemical, and pharmaceutical industries.

Obesity is an epidemic. Eating genetically modified foods, and foods filled with preservatives and chemicals ultimately creates genetic deterioration, does it not? Toss in some prescription medicine on top of a worse than piss poor diet and imagine how the lethal combos of poor nutrition and pills from the Doc affect our genes?

Fast food corporations have made custom designed menus for those who want to eat quick for a cheap price. The cost of the food is low, the caloric intake is high, the belly gets full, and then the digestive system says, "WTF did you just put in me?"

2 hours later, the customer is hungry again.

Four months later, the remnants of all those undigested cheeseburgers pile up in the intestine and the next thing you know, Joe can't see his penis in the shower because his gut is distended, full of crap he ate months ago that his human body can't get rid of.

Mutations are natural over long periods of time, but it seems like the foods people are eating are hastening the mutation process and they are completely unnatural.

If people in northern Canada who live off of mostly fresh fish from the frozen sea begin to digest fish that have been exposed to radiation from Fukushima sea water, how will that affect their DNA?

Is this Darwinism, or is it really just a slow poisoning the entire population?

Never be afraid to ask simple questions.

Your Observation is incorrect

Once you are born your DNA in the reproductive cells is Fixed. If you cut your eye out your offspring will not be born with one eye. This is what darwinists you to say that stress causes mutations and the creature would pass this down .. It has been proven false like most of Darwins theory ... But they cling to their faith and there worldview of no God and force their theory to fit .... and they have the nerve to call it science .... it is hogwash

I can believe it

Just walk around and you will see it.

Most likely because we are all sitting on our fat behinds watching a screen, eating junk and taking meds lol

I dare anyone know to pick up a pen a write what you did today. I actually had to concentrate to make the connections between hand and brain or dexterity if you will to get the desired result due to lack of practice. Anyone can hit a key.

donvino

"Most likely because we are

"Most likely because we are all sitting on our fat behinds watching a screen, eating junk and taking meds lol."

You just nailed it. Humans are not designed to sit on their rear ends all day staring at the camp fire. Humans were also not designed to ingest, "food," that isn't really food at all. If cavemen had access to prescription medications, none of us would be here today.

Never be afraid to ask simple questions.

Human Race Degenerating ... Ethically?

With today's first world's technology especially in weapon developments, second and third world countries are suffering from wars, birth defects, deformities, deaths, etc... Makes us wonder if we, humans, are progressing or ethically and mentally degenerating?

Cancer Defect
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMmzUS3l66k
https://www.facebook.com/LoveHopeFaithCure

Love-Faith-Hope-Support-Fight Cancer Defect http://CancerDefect.com

Fret not. The invisible hand(job) will save humanity!

There is a great article in Aug. 2013 Wired Magazine entitled "Geneus". It's about how a Chinese University is working to make it easy to eliminate albinism, Tay-Sachs, club foot, breast cancer, bad backs, etc. for those silly folks shopping in the cabbage patch.

My personal favorite is the blurb about how parents can raise the baby's average IQ by 13 points simply by picking out which of Dad's sperm to knock-up Mom with*.

*a person with a high IQ would have known how to construct that sentence properly. Sorry. AND public schools. Really sorry.

--------------

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty" TJ

Junk DNA nor Good DNA has not been studied in a "vacuum"

and in this case I mean an artificial environment where all bacterial, fungal, microbial, yeast, mold, viral, and protozoa are all controlled.

Bad DNA has not been studied in a "perfect" (whatever that looks like) artifical (man controlled) environment -- it is always reactive to mutating environments.

Human beings, given sufficient time, will out-perform junk DNA -- we will adapt.

I will go to the ice-flow long before that is necessary, but I have "faith" in science and natural/un-natural circumventive innovation.

NEWS FLASH! NEANDERTHAL DNA IS DEGENERATING

And at some point the Neanderthal race is doomed! Too many mutations mean that some day, that which made us Neanderthal will cease to exist.

Yup.

Unfortunately, I can point out historical evidence that, at least at some level, evolution has been validated. Europeans brought smallpox to the Inca. A great majority died... but those that survive are no more subject to smallpox than Europeans... those with the sufficiently robust immune systems have passed on that trait.

Same can be said of the Black Death in Europe. Plague is not gone from this world, but is no longer a major threat. Humanity as a whole has improved enough to outgrow this scourge.

At the very least, the mechanism of "Survival of the Fittest" has a real world record, and is a pressure that imparts an advantage to the fittest group (but not to individuals, per se).

The change to a carbohydrate rich diet is a force changing humanity even now. Our skulls have shrunk a bit, particularly in the jaw area... and now we find that all our teeth don't always fit in hte allotted space. More humans are Obese because we are not well adapted to eating grain and other carbohydrates.

Evolution is a hard thing to "prove" due to the time span needed for evidence to unfold... which is why they study fossil and other organic remains to uncover clues to history, lifestyle, and consequences. Even so, some mechanisms of evolution are beyond the debating stage. Other aspects may never move beyond inference.

My 2cents.

GoodSamaritan's picture

Survival of the Fittest

has no effect on the accumulation of near-neutral mutations, the vast majority of which are harmful but with an effect too small to be selected away. The human race will pass on its current genetic load of tens of thousands of such mutations in every individual, along with roughly 100 new harmful mutations per person per generation, until mutational meltdown.

Dr. Sanford's work is one of the clearest refutations to date of the general theory of evolution.

Ron Paul - Honorary Founding Father

arguments pro and con

Here's an article someone wrote in response to Sanford:
http://letterstocreationists.wordpress.com/stan-4/

Sanford's reply:
http://creation.com/genetic-entropy

And the reply in response:
http://letterstocreationists.wordpress.com/gen_entropy/

Inquisitive readers can read the full back-and-forth and come to their own conclusions.

What about the tree of life?

To continue the scripture comparison, let's look at the tree of life.

Gen 3:22-23
And the LORD[YHUH] God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: Therefore the LORD[YHUH] God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

Rev 2:7
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Rev 22:1-4
And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.

Rev 22:14-15
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Rev 22:19
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book["Tree", http://biblehub.com/text/revelation/22-19.htm ] of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

.

Hear, O Israel: YHUH our God YHUH one. And thou shalt love YHUH thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Much of what he says is clearly true but the absolute proof

of the fallacy of the theory of evolution is right in front of us. It is so clear yet no one seems to see it or discuss it. The human race is degenerating on many levels as this guy says which in itself debunks evolution but what is the simple absolute proof?

Gen 1:27 "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."

MALE and FEMALE. There is no way a single celled organism that sprang to life from a carbon molecule in a primordial ooze can evolve into any species that consists of Male and Female for procreation.

Evolution DEBUNKED.

This is the biggest lie and smoke screen ever!

We all are being poisoned slowly by our environment, and poisoned from the food we eat. You are what you eat, and if you eat the frankenfood put out buy big AG you will become a genetic Frankenstein!

I posted many times showing how bad and dangerous this crap is, and now they just developed a gene that works only on humans. It was developed by scientist who worked for the USDA and now Monsatan and Dupont own the patent on it. If you request more information from USDA they say you have no right to know.

What is the USDA and Monsatan up to? If they didn't plan on using it why did they develop it?

BTW, this sterile gene was already released into the environment during testing 10 years ago in a cornfield in southern California. when you release new genes into the environment it is impossible to recall!

Watch this video and get the real truth, Charlotte Gerson in this video is over eighty years old but uses no eye glasses and gets around like a 30 year old. Her dad Max Gerson has cured cancer and every disease out there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbIixJI_oa4

Big AG is poisoning the American people. Every country in the world is now healthier than the Americans are, But we spend the most on health care.

They have ears but cannot hear, and the have eyes but can not see!

Gold standard: because man can not be trusted to control his greed

Can you make a comment without mentioning Monsanto?

I have news for you- NATURE is constantly trying to kill you. Every person who has ever lived has been killed by their environment or will be killed.

Max Gerson is DEAD. He died at 82. He cured every disease out there except for the one that killed him, right?

Max Gerson was poisoned

and he knew it! He did his own blood test just before he died of Arsenic poisoning. Also a year before he had done a lot of research on how organic foods can heal you. I forget how many case studies he done, but people were cured of many diseases and cancers. Some were terminally ill but are still alive 50 years later.

The book he wrote from his research was stolen before he could get it into print. It took him almost a year to recreate his research. His daughter Charlotte still has the case studies he worked on. Someone sure was going to great lengths to silence him.

It's not nature that will kill you, it's the garbage man puts into nature. I just started up my produce stand and I had 6 different customers that told me they were fighting cancer. 30 years ago I might have heard of 1 case in a year. Cancer is now part of our lives whether we like it or not.

After another 15 years of people drinking the puss filled Monsatan's rBST milk, there is going to be rampant cancer cases. If rBST shortens the life of the cow by 75% it can not be good for the humans that drink the puss filled rBST milk.

Then there is the GMO filth put out by Monsatan, which will kill many more with cancer way before the milk does. You don't have to worry about Monsatan getting sued, because Congress passed the Monsatan protection act. Which give Monsatan the green light to poison anyone they want.

Gold standard: because man can not be trusted to control his greed

I will go through this piece by piece.. *---my critique---*

(0:00-0:42)
Interviewer:
"In a sense this is sort of how the classical evolutionary thinking has gone. At least how I was taught it in school... But what you're saying is it's way beyond that. That there's a 'brail system' 'beneath those mattresses', and somehow that has to be detected."

Dr. Sanford:
"It has to be detected, but it's inconceivable that it could be detected."

*---If It's inconceivable that it can be detected, how does he know there is anything to detect?---*

(1:56-4:47)
Interviewer:
"You actually suggest in your book... one day in the far future we (the human race) undergo a 'gene death'..."

Dr. Sanford:
"Right."

Interviewer:
"Now, is this news? Are there others who are saying this? Others who are admitting this? Are you on the cutting edge of something here? How is this theory seen by your fellow scientists?"

Dr. Sanford:
"So, it's kind of a trade secret amongst population geneticists. Any really educated population geneticist understands that man is degenerating. Uh, so basically you can some great quotes, uh, there was a paper written a while back, and the title of the paper is 'Why Aren't We Dead a Hundred Times Over?' And he's basically addressing the problem. Things should be going down not up, and by deep geological time we should have been dead a long time ago..."

*---So it's a "trade secret". Only really really smart people know about it. It's a secret. And some "quotes" from "a while back" is all the sources/evidence he can offer. Because it's a SECRET!LOL---*

(Sanford continues) "...most of the population geneticists imagined, well it couldn't be that way in the past... so maybe if we stopped taking care of the ill, and the weak, perhaps we could get more natural selection, and perhaps stop the problem."

*---So "population geneticists" IMAGINE something, and that makes it true... Looks like we have another live one here. By the way, as the interviewer points out...---*

(4:47-7:30)
Interviewer - "There's a fine line between that and WWII eugenics."

Dr. John Sanford - "The eugenics philosophy is just under the surface within the evolutionary community, and, uh, I'm sure they're thinking about it, but I'm sure they don't want, uh, won't go talk about it..."

*---He basically all but admits right here that his theories are eugenics theories. He will go on to only differ from WW2 eugenicists in the proposed solution and severity of the "problem" (that he can't prove is a problem or even exists). Oh, I forgot, it's a secret.---*

(Sanford cont.-) ...The problem is, increasing the amount of death, and the amount of natural selection doesn't stop it. The problem is so, fundamental. This is the essence of aging... There is no prospect of scientific breakthrough to significantly extend our lifespan beyond what it is. It's really fundamental, and it's really personal..."

*---The problem that will doom humanity to an eventual "gene death", is apparently so 'fundamental'. Meaning what? That it's normal! Everyone is the "problem". His quoted expert from before said that the human race should be dead a hundred times over. But we're not. Because these theories are crackpot non-sense. Oh, no, it's just SECRET! HA HA HA!
Then he goes on to make his argument about aging. Meaning human beings dying from old age. DUH! What does he want, a race of immortal super-humans? YES! Because that's what Eugenics is all about! He will now try to infuse his Nazi eugenics non-sense propaganda with Christian theology. This only serves to weaken his scientific argument.---*

(Sanford cont.-) ...it's a tragedy...it means that we're a perishing people living in a dying world, and that is so profound... and it makes the need for salvation and for a savior so personal... because there's no circle of life... it is not an upward spiral... where things get better and better. It is a downward spiral. Exactly as described in scripture. "

*---This is just pure conjecture. He tries using his "personal", as he puts it, interpretations of the Bible as evidence for his theory. This has clearly been shown to NOT be proven fact, or even a convincing theory.---*

In my opinion this guy is pushing eugenics. He is trying to use Christian beliefs to gain popularity for his theories. This is likely being advertised by NWO elitists to White Christian Fundamentalist groups. The racist ones. To use them to push their agenda. This guy isn't calling for forced "natural selection" meaning sterilization, &/or liquidation, right now. But some other genius will come along, if this theory became popular, and will say it would work. To save the human race, the children. Your particular group would not matter, but your "personal" DNA would. People would be holocausted not based on race, religion, or ethnicity, but based on your particular genes. It's NWO style NAZI eugenics propaganda. Genetic 'Elites' would rule while others would be slaves, and others still would be systematically killed.

The only thing I agree with is his last few words at the end of the video. G-d is only way we can be saved. That is certainly personal.

PEOPLE OPPOSING TYRANNY - Real Grass Roots!
Are you a POT or a PET - Person Embracing Tyranny?

GoodSamaritan's picture

I've already answered this elsewhere

but I'll try again...

Dr. Sanford refutes eugenics repeatedly as a hopeless waste of time. He makes his case very clearly that there is nothing anyone - including eugenicists - can do to stop genomic decay.

You apparently misunderstood the meaning of the interviewer's reference to the "Braille system beneath those mattresses". He was referring to the gross simplicity of common illustrations for survival of the fittest and selecting away the least fit as a solution to improving a genome. Dr. Sanford went on to explain that the problem (illustrated by reading Braille through a mattress) is to identify the near-neutral mutations that accumulate endlessly until genetic meltdown. Their effect is too miniscule to detect and thereby have any hope of reversing them. We already carry tens of thousands of these mutations and will continue accumulating them until we go extinct. The End.

The "trade secret" he mentions is well known among geneticists. It's just that the issue of genomic decay is not widely discussed.

"The eugenics philosophy is just under the surface within the evolutionary community..." Notice that he associates the eugenics philosophy with evolutionists. Dr. Sanford used to be an ardent evolutionist but is no longer. Eugenicists believe they can improve the human race through selection. Dr. Sanford says that the human race is degrading and there's nothing anyone can do about it.

Dr Sanford:

[Natural] selection does help. Selection gets rid of the worst mutations...Selection slows mutational degeneration, but does not even begin to actually stop it. So even with intense selection, evolution is going the wrong way — toward extinction!

Your conclusion is exactly opposite to the position he presented.

Ron Paul - Honorary Founding Father

Donald Duck on 'Satan's New World Order'...

illustrates the goal of eugenics. Great vid beyond that, too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jjQzh-1MQA&feature=player_de...

PEOPLE OPPOSING TYRANNY - Real Grass Roots!
Are you a POT or a PET - Person Embracing Tyranny?

Of course the human race is

Of course the human race is degenerating. In the cave man days the mentally or physically weak did not survive. Now they get government assistance and have 10 children.

Good point.

Good point.

Never be afraid to ask simple questions.

In evolutionary terms, genes

In evolutionary terms, genes aren't supposed to degenerate, they get "better," by adapting and modifying their DNA codes to deal with environmental stresses.

Evolution or devolution?

On the surface of things, it certainly LOOKS like humans are degenerating because many of us are obese and have put our bodies through environmental stresses that the human body has never seen before, like trying to digest a Big Mac, or slurping down 32 ounces of soda and a bucket full of artificially flavored popcorn.

The big question is how do genes react to, "negative stimuli," like Big Macs, Whoppers, processed food, microwaves, EMF's, synthetic chemicals, and pharmaceutical drugs?

Does modern day, "consumption," of seemingly normal products negatively effect our DNA?

Can food, drugs, or electromagnetic frequencies alter our DNA?

Or...Does the negative effect of such products/negative stimuli actually bolster our DNA and sets forth a chain reaction that ultimately produces a, "better," human being that is more resistant to modern day life?

I don't believe in the theory of evolution.

The eugenicists of the world are doing their best to screw up our DNA enough to create a slave society in the near future.

A society of teenage mutant ninja turtles that can easily be controlled and choreographed.

Never be afraid to ask simple questions.

Epigenetics & Conditions - pollution

Yes, all conditions alter our DNA or what genes are producing cells or not. Epigenetics switches cell production on or off dependent on conditions during our lifetimes. We change over about 10 years because of this. Then, that change is passed on to the next generation.

We are talking brain cells and body cells of all types.

We are talking cell origins across the spectrum of planetary life switching on or off depending on whether the person is watching fox news or talking to their neighbor.

FEAR = condition.

The only cure for fear is understanding. We need free speech and we do not have it. We need to develop a common understanding of our past, and we do not have it. We needs to develop a common and adequate understanding of human behaviors and how we can help ourselves to change ours collectively in cooperation and organization in action to reduce fear by meeting needs.

Psychology is deeply negligent for not helping us to develop a proper way to control ourselves 40 years ago and stop the plunge into destruction of natural balances and changes with populations exploding.

One thing will save us, if we are sensitive enough to the real value of our social contract; that is founded deeply of instinctual structure that empowers survival then evolution; to use it and bridge the divisions in our population created by decades of media manipulations. The principles of our constitution have what we need to focus on for agreement because all power is under the ideal of the constitution, or that power is unconstitutional.

Basically agreement upon the highest ideals then invocation of legal process within the de-facto forming of a party which is uniformly referred to as the "principal party". It forms on the notion that correct perceptions of constitutional intent are instinctually recognized within a historical phenomena of unity somewhat described by Lincoln in 1859. Yep, natural law. "the people are the rightful masters of the congress and the courts". Strategy that dissects how this works and engages it will fuel common law understandings which become an intelligent way to "write in votes" as well as cross party line to vote for candidates that properly and comprehensively address the principals. Consider the dilemma of people overcoming unlawful government in order to arrest de evolution.

Now, to connect this to the OP, avoiding de-evolution which IS happening, and it is happening dynamically with our bodies and minds, AND, there seem to be definite efforts to induce psychological shifts through media, semiotics corporate dependency etc.
Hope based in reason helps a lot. Perhaps this shows why and how we can agree and use our democratic prerogative.

Can we stop doing all the things we are doing that we do not want to do while still doing what we need to do?

Oh yeah? Well I don't believe

Oh yeah? Well I don't believe in the theory of gravity! PROVE it exists, I dare you!

Freedom in our lifetime! - fiol.us

Gravity isn't a theory. It

Gravity isn't a theory. It was a theory before Sir Isaac Newton.

Evolution is still a theory. If it were reality, we all should be living in a near perfect world by now.

We are so far from it.

Never be afraid to ask simple questions.

That's a new one

Gravity isn't a theory. It was a theory before Sir Isaac Newton.

Interesting claim.

What is it you think the "theory of Gravity" was, before Newton? And what is it you think Newton did to turn that theory of Gravity into something other than a theory?

Somewhat tangentially, is the theory of relativity still a theory, or did Einstein do the same thing to the theory of relativity that Newton did to the theory of gravity?

I know how scientists use the word "theory," I'm trying to figure out what you think it means.

There are relativistic truths

There are relativistic considerations needed to understand gravity, thus Newton's theory of "gravity" only works to a certain extent.

In the same way, evolution only may be true to a certain extent. Or, another way of looking at it is that it is if it isn't fully true, it isn't really true at all.

in that sense, there are very few physical truths/laws that exist. And, you may think i am radical, but I don't think the theory of gravity is a law.

If it were a law, it should work in the quantum world, but it doesn't. Moreover, one needs relativity to make it work in the classical world. Even with relativity, we have to resort to exotic terms like "dark matter" to make the calculations work in the cosmos. Something is wrong.

In a much worse sense, evolution is just a theory; and in this humble scientist's opinion, a very bad one.