32 votes

Smudge Pot On The Racial Divide: Don't Fall For It.

I've heard "why aren't people talking about black on white violence" a few too many times. Fact is we shouldn't be. In being collectively judged by certain "leaders", many of us are falling for the trick and doing the same thing right back.

This very day we have a post titled "Black people will never be accepted by normal white people". That certainly begs the question WHAT IS THE NORM? Collective judgement?

If this is the case I certainly am glad not to be a normal white person. I'm an individual.

Don't fall for this crap people, those who pedal it don't have our best interests in mind they have THEIR best interests in mind.




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Diversity certainly is more than skin deep

Yet even most colorblind can understand the concept of double standards within diverse groups.

Don't fall for racism or double standards.

Light people are dark people who move to temperate climes.

Those that did not make enough vitamin D from sun failed to thrive.

Those that went bald or had was lighter skin increased solar conversion of vitamin D. They tended to thrive.

Somalians that moved to Scandinavia have to take Vitamin D supplements to prevent autism-like behavior.

Modern man does not have to wait for nature to adapt.

Free includes debt-free!

My 2 cents

There is so much nonsense on this thread that can be easily dispelled, but this is not an appropriate forum for the topic. I can already see the hammer about to fall. It's obviously not a welcome subject. People are going to leave with the same prejudices they came with, on both sides, and in the mean time bigmikedude's job is going to be that much harder.

One side is going to get banned, lest the whole site be overcome with these pointless, endless discussions. The other side will have no grounds to celebrate their victory, since the discussion will be ended by shutting it down and kicking a bunch of people. In the meantime, the discussion will devolve into emotional, personal attacks and accusatory mutual recrimination. Might as well just call it a day, and focus on economics, liberty, and political discussion.

This site is obviously not going to become a platform for ethnic nationalism. There is tremendous latitude for everyone to voice their opinions and concerns, diplomatically and with sound arguments. Even if they are controversial and politically incorrect. But there is obviously some kind of semi organized agenda driven thing here that is just going to give the site operators and mods a head ache, and drive out all discussion of topics which the site exists to discuss.

I was thinking if I was MN or the mods I'd be in dispair

But some of us don't know what to do but confront this crap. Make a stand, make sure the world sees that some of us stand against this collectivist judgement and rank racism.

It's that, give it a free pass or some third option I haven't figured out yet. Got anything for this Bill my great friend?

Get your preps together! Learn historic food storage and preservation methods and the science that makes them work now, start saving money and the future

No. I just keep seeing things

No. I just keep seeing things I want to reply to, and then realize how pointless it would be, because these are the kinds of beliefs that are deeply rooted, and don't much change with argument. They're deeper, they have to do with identity and ideology, emotion and brainwashing, and people aren't going to budge one way or another.

And the discussion will be shut down, and be one more sour taste in the mouths of the mods, and of Nystrom, who hosts us all and provides a place for us to communicate, discuss and debate in good faith.

Whatever the merit of some of the arguments, it just seems against all manners and decency to abuse that hospitality, and use the forum provided to come and promote personal side agendas to the exclusion of all else. It is overboard, and it alienates people who come here as newcomers or to discuss the more central themes of the site.

And it reflects badly on a personal level for people who are associated with the site or might wish to be associated with it, from the owner on down.

And then you read the back and forth, and want to get drawn into it, as we all have opinions. But you know it is not the proper place or forum for the depth of discussion necessary to get at the bottom of the a lot of these complex issues, and again, is not why these forums are offered.

I am speaking only for myself, the rest of you have at it. Not criticizing anyone who feels the need to talk. But everyone has an opinion, everyone thinks theirs is best, and not all of them are based on logical analysis. And some will go on forever, and sometimes we just need to take in our surroundings, realize where we are, that we are guests, and not everything is welcome. People who constantly rattle on with their own ideological hobby horse issues are doing themselves no favors, and not behaving as decent guests.

Something funny happened on the road back from conquest

A lot of points made in comments seem to understand today in isolation, like there was no past leading up to this point.

Notice how post-colonial nations still have this legacy of racial divide? You can set a slave free today but they don't seem to immediately become happy and productive members of the new dominant society. Here we are generations later still dealing with the legacies of slavery and genocide.

Let's recall no black people came over on the Mayflower. Their trans-continental voyage was somewhat less comfortable and 100% forced. White people brought them here where they were busy suppressing the native inhabitants. Not coincidentally, Native America displays many of the same problems that beset this post-slave population popularly known as "blacks" in the USA.

Who are you really angry at? The victims or the perpetrators?

Get your preps together! Learn historic food storage and preservation methods and the science that makes them work now, start saving money and the future

The Constitution was unconstitutional

It denied liberty to free peoples. But the document wasn't racist. The reality was different, of course.

But those people who committed these tyrannies are now all long dead. Their bad, counter-productive ideas should die with them, IMO.

Slavery was never mentioned but referred to "other Persons", meaning illegally owned individuals.

"shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons."

Stirring up old grievances to serve the new regime means the individuals on both sides are used.

Free includes debt-free!

I am the Borg, resistance is futile you will be assimilated.

So says the puppet masters.

It is hard to imagine a more stupid or more dangerous way of making decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people that pay no price for being wrong.
Thomas Sowell

As if we're the ones that created the divide

Reverse racism and anti-white sentiment DOMINATES the mainstream dialogue so that's why it's important to inject reality into the conversation from time to time by pointing out the HUGELY DISPROPORTIONATE rate of black on white crime vs. that of white on black. For example if we want law enforcement that actually protects us against real acts of aggression we should support racial profiling, as the profiling is done in line with the actual rate of crimes blacks commit.

There's not going to be any great 'coming together' of the black and white races any time soon, the fact is that most black people HATE white people and nothing's going to change that. So we might as well defend ourselves instead of rolling over and taking it.

I am 96% White, 4% Shawnee Indian

and my wife is about 44% African Black, 6% Cherokee Indian, 50% White, I guess you would simply label her as "Black." We do not hate each other, as a matter of fact, we love each other very much.

The irony of your statement that you are race conscious as a mechanism of defense against black race consciousness is profound and not a bit funny. That is the same excuse many black "leaders" use for believing that MLK's vision of a color-blind world is not realistic on their part until white racism ends.

This obsession with race has to end. We will not achieve God's will for us until we have ended it.

Race is a human invention with no scientific basis.

Their is NO reliable trait or group of traits that reliably determine which genetic family someone belongs.

That black man on the bus may have more genes connecting him to the Caucasian family than the white man sitting next to him.

So they agree to trade when they both benefit.

If they agree to fight someone else will benefit.

Free includes debt-free!

Agreed.

There are most certainly those on here that wish to promote racial divide. There is no question about that.

Ron Paul is an individualist.

That means you judge people based on their merit as an individual, not by whatever group(s) they may involuntarily be a part of.

And Yeshua said, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"

and "Don't point out the spec in your brother's eye, without first pointing out the log in your own."

By all means, keep up the debate. But true liberty people will understand the concept of individualism versus collectivism, and will choose individualism.

PEOPLE OPPOSING TYRANNY - Real Grass Roots!
Are you a POT or a PET - Person Embracing Tyranny?

Supporting individualism as a political system doesn't mean

you have to ignore all group differences. For example you probably wouldn't be as scared walking the streets at night if you encountered an 80 year old white woman vs. a 20 year old black guy. Does that make a collectivist? No it doesn't. Simply believing that all individuals should have rights doesn't require deluding yourself that there are no distinctions among groups as there are among individual persons.

I am originally from the

San Francisco Bay Area, and, I'll tell you, I always felt much safer walking in mostly Black East Oakland than I did in mostly White and Asian San Francisco. Why? Because the statist policies of the San Francisco government made homelessness and poverty pervasive in the city, and there were times when derelicts would try to enter my car WHILE I WAS DRIVING IT. Bums were literally everywhere.

Poverty, crime, and violence are not racially based, they are caused by statist policies.

Bingo! Poverty, crime and violence...



"Poverty, crime, and violence are not racially based, they are caused by statist policies".
And that is a fact.

I left L.A. For the same reasons. The city was over run with derelict vagrants.
We called them the "Drooling N'er-do-wells" and the "Dregs of Society".
Crack didn't help the situation. Crack Ho's EVERYWHERE.
And all those shiny badges and their masters made not a difference.

The "City of Angels" is now "Where the Ghetto Meets the Sea".
An Angel has fallen, the statist has risen.

The good care not of your race, creed or color; neither do the evil.

Exercise Liberty...and color blindness.


America Rising.
The Constitution Stands.

"That the pen is mightier than the sword would be proven false; if I should take my sword and cut off the hand that holds the pen" - American Nomad

I'm not scared of anyone, at night or anytime...

What if I encounter a 80 year old white woman, versus a 20 year old white man? What's the difference between the white man and the black man. Both can do equal harm, so what's the difference to you? Perhaps you are buying into the racial division stereo-types being pushed by the MSM, instead of thinking like a libertarian, meaning an individualist.

You comment only illustrates the difference between old and young, male and female.

There are some differences indeed, in groups. But we as people are individuals, especially under the law, and in life any individual is capable of exceeding or falling short of whatever the stereo-types may be, of any group. Leftist groups are the ones pushing for "Gay Rights", "Minority Rights", "women's rights". It is the libertarian right that says we are all equal under the law. Not Affirmative Action for minorities and Abortions for omen, but every single individual has equal rights under the law.

PEOPLE OPPOSING TYRANNY - Real Grass Roots!
Are you a POT or a PET - Person Embracing Tyranny?

reply

"What if I encounter a 80 year old white woman, versus a 20 year old white man? What's the difference between the white man and the black man. Both can do equal harm, so what's the difference to you? Perhaps you are buying into the racial division stereo-types being pushed by the MSM[...]

Or maybe unkut lives in reality? Are you going to say that an 80 year old white woman is just as likely as assault someone walking down a dark street as a 20 year old black or white man? Lunacy.

I'm tired of this "you don't agree with me 100% because you've been brainwashed" crap. It's just a cheap attempt to stifle debate and civil discourse.

But that aside....

[...]instead of thinking like a libertarian[...]

And who are you to define what a libertarian is? What if unkut doesn't consider him/herself to be a libertarian?

[...]meaning an individualist.[...]
Pulling definitions from your personal dictionary doesn't lend any credibility to your argument. Also, how does being an individualist mean pretending that everyone is the exact same in every way? I'm pretty sure that'd be closer to being a collectivist than anything else.

Finally, if 'libertarian' did mean 'individualist', then who are you to tell others how to think, or what the definition of 'libertarian' is?

Quite the interesting paradox you've created...

edit: typo

A signature used to be here!

read.

He said -

"For example you probably wouldn't be as scared walking the streets at night if you encountered an 80 year old white woman vs. a 20 year old black guy."

I replied. -

"What if I encounter a 80 year old white woman, versus a 20 year old white man? What's the difference between the white man and the black man. Both can do equal harm, so what's the difference to you?

Get it?

PEOPLE OPPOSING TYRANNY - Real Grass Roots!
Are you a POT or a PET - Person Embracing Tyranny?

Individualism was one of the first things

the rouge element in the US Government, George H Bush, Henry Kissinger,et el, rubbed out.

Our two-tier justice system DOES victimize black people

far out of pace with whites. A black person's seven times more likely to end up in prison than a white person, on top of being much more likely to be charged with a crime than a white person. Especially drug of drug "crimes". This is not "race baiting", but rather, a fact that should be kept in mind at all times.

For an example of how black people are treated as second-class citizens by the justice system, see the killing of former marine Kenneth Chamberlain Sr. of White Plains, NY, who accidentally hit his life alert button and was greeted soon thereafter by cops. They called him a nigger, bust down his door, tazed him and shot him more than once. He was completely unarmed. The officers involved were acquitted by a grand jury.

This is the two tier "justice" system in action.

Blacks are more likely to end up in prison

because they're more likely to commit crimes. It's in their disposition to be more aggressive as a result of evolutionary factors. Just as whites are slightly more likely than Asians to be violent. It's sort of disturbing but it's just the way it is. Race exists, it's not simply a social construct as the left claim. Serious science has proven it and now even prominent people like Richard Dawkins acknowledge this.

Bullsh*t

"It's sort of disturbing but it's just the way it is. "

Yes, race can affect disposition to a small degree, you're the one making the jump to claim that higher reported crime rates are due to their biology and not the fact that within the last 100 years much of the public regarded them as sub-human (according to Gallup a majority of the country did not accept interracial marriage until 1993!).

The drug war has done a good job specifically targeting black people at an incredible rate (read about the crack-powder cocaine sentencing disparity). Try depriving much of a already impoverished community of male role models and see if the crime rate doesn't go up! It will.

The political and media establishment have misrepresented and betrayed the black community in nearly every capacity. Essentially you're taking a complex problem, boiling it down to race to suit your own bigotry and throwing Dawkins' name on it based on a paragraph you read somewhere and didn't really understand.

.

...

“With laws shall our land be built up, but with lawlessness laid waste.”
-Njal Thorgeirsson

The trouble is,

we have been maneuvered into being so PC, that stating Statistical Fact, is no longer "allowed"....it is "offensive" and "hurtful", no matter how true the information.
Have we been PCed into muteness?

I never really cared for collectivism.

I didn't know that until I found out there was a form of terminology for what I believed in. Individualism. Thank you to Hayek and Ron Paul for teaching me I'm not alone in these ideals.

thanks, Smudge Pot

I tend to ignore any posts with a race-baiting title, from either side. Just treat people as individuals and don't worry about race.

“With laws shall our land be built up, but with lawlessness laid waste.”
-Njal Thorgeirsson

People voluntarily lump

People voluntarily lump themselves into groups. Tons of black people are constantly talking about black problems in terms of all black people being one entity. Well those blacks who buy into that are the ones I will judge as a group. There are few and far between who are individuals, and they act more like a normal white person would. Every time I bring up anything racial, trendy libtards think I am talking in terms of "all" instead of "most," and they somehow think because I am not colorblind that my statements are somehow bred out of hatred. I don't see how having one's own view that color affects what's on the inside is hateful. I never said that they don't deserve life. Racism is hatred. Hatred is determining a person to be less than human. I'd like for anyone who has issue with all of the racially-charged stuff I say to show one instance where I say anything hateful about another race.

Please come join my forum if you're not a trendy and agree with my points of view.

You don't have to "say" anything.

It's probably how people read between the lines of what you write.
Everyone has a different angle, regardless of what you "say".

That's their mistake. I talk

That's their mistake. I talk straight. I don't put anything between the lines, and if people think they see something between the lines in my text, they're seeing what they want to. I can't read between the lines or grasp any symbology, so naturally I would have no idea how nor desire to even do such things to the words I create.

Please come join my forum if you're not a trendy and agree with my points of view.

Cyril's picture

Obviously.

Obviously.

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius