41 votes

Is "Campaign for Liberty" SPAM?

I'm fed up with Campaign for Liberty's email communications.

My server's new spam software has been quarantining Campaign for Liberty emails for months, but I've dutifully had them passed on to my inbox and at least skimmed most of them. I've never been impressed, but I'm starting to be offended.

This latest one declared in the subject line that "Dr. Paul needs your advice." It used the abbreviation C4L over and over, not even identifying on the first use, a writing 101 skill. It went on for 1,900 words -- the size of most full-bodied magazine articles. It was repetitive and insulting. I reminded me of the Amway salesmen I've had the misfortune to meet.

I clicked through just to see how the dismal story would end, and...sure enough, the big advice Dr. Paul needed from me was whether to chose Audit the Fed, civil liberties, or targeting the 2014 elections. Oh, wait, also, all of the above. After making my choice, I got a big donate come-on.

The whole spiel was a ruse to try to get money.

These "C4L" emails and letters are sticking in my craw. Whoever is doing these (in this case David Warrington and John Tate are a disgrace. I'd love to be on the email list of a real Campaign for Liberty and do what I could when I could, and be treated as a person with a brain. Not as some desperate Amway-sucker.

Who is running this show? Why are they such imbeciles?

I remember several months ago, reading about how Doug Weed was getting into some multi-level marketing scheme. I'm just wondering why such sub-standard intellects rise so far in the Ron Paul movement.

I'm wondering if there's something that can be done about it. I intend to respond to the latest "C4L" email with a lengthy edit, but it will only be for myself, as I'm sure none of the Amway-style-writers at C4L even read, let alone could question their approach. It is quite clear that whoever writes that drivel isn't thinking about his partner (the reader) but only masturbating with words.

It really makes me question the sort of people who are drawn to Ron Paul. It makes me question Paul's discernment when it comes to those around him.

I'm disgusted with "C4L." Please, someone tell me that Ron Paul isn't involved with it and that his name has been, once again, shanghaied.

After getting past my irritation and reading everyone's thoughts, I replied to the latest C4L with the following suggestions:

Dear Authors of C4L Communications:

The way you are communicating with me is highly ineffective. I rarely open a letter or click on an email anymore. This particular letter was almost 1,900 words, contained six repetitive clickable images, and was written in the style of a used-car salesman.

I will just point out a few of the most egregious bits on the off chance you are seeking feedback that would lead to more effective outreach.

1. I’m offended by the early and oft used word “statist.” The word adds no meaning — the “statist IRS” is like saying the “male boy” — and is needlessly pejorative. You name call in the first sentence, which risks giving readers a cringe moment. Several IRS branches have done a terrible thing; you don’t need to name call to make this more true. And, when you do, it gives the impression you don’t believe the facts are egregious enough.

2. Over reaching makes your words suspect and diminishes credibility. The IRS’s goal is obviously not to shut down C4L. It’s to collect taxes. The fact that several agents and administrators have targeted conservative groups, does not make that the IRS’s goal. Look at this breathless, credibility-killing language permeating this correspondence.

“…goal remains to shut up and shut down organizations like C4L who dare to criticize radical assaults on our freedom…”

“…facing decisions right now unlike any other I've ever had to make.

”…GUT every last shred of American liberty… more afraid… than ever.

”…your advice is absolutely essential.”

“…I can't think of anything worse.”

”…absolutely vital…critical reform…do battle…”

”…loss of every last shred…”

I’m sure you get the idea. This barrage of excessive language has a little-boy-who-cried-wolf quality that causes degrades you. And frankly, the reader begins to feel degraded by his/her association with you. Credibility, matters. I beg you to re-think the use-car/Amway salesmen tone.

3. The ruse. It becomes apparent that this “Dr. Paul Needs Your Advice” come-on is a ruse. If it were, in fact true, that C4L is fearful of being an IRS target and that having members fill out a directive would help guard against an assult, it follows that you wouldn’t tell members how to vote.

Right? Because if the above were true, telling them how their beloved Dr. Paul wants them to vote would taint directives to the point of being without value.

Ah, but when one takes in all the breathy, salesman language, sees the scaling of issues, and then…the big one — Dr. Paul wants (actually prays) I pick them all. Hurrah! Yes, I pick them all!

But…always the but, and always the truth must come out. Money. It’s all just a lure to disguise the hook — give us money. I don’t consider giving money to something I believe in a hook; I don’t need a lure. And I’ll get all rebellious if I feel you’re playing me. Like I do again and again with your correspondence.

5. Repetitive — 1,900 words. Come on. I could cut that down to 600 and lose nothing that matters (and a lot that turns people off). Please take the time to value our time by making every word count.

6. On the first use of a “C4L,” you must write it out. Like this: Campaign For Liberty (C4L).

I would, of course, be willing to edit/comment on any future communications from C4L before they go out.

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Totally agree...

C4L are turning people off. The brand has been completely tainted. Time to change the name and start afresh with a more reasonable fundraising approach.

No-one but Paul!

itsallaboutbalance's picture

This is trolling to the power of a hundred

The reason you get so many communications from C4L is exactly because there are just as many and more attacks on our liberties. If no one opposes the establishment and powers that be then we would be even worst off today.

What other way than with email do you have to communicate with hundreds of thousands or even millions of people? What other way do you have to get donations to help the fight along? Our ONLY chance to fight for liberty is with numbers and with the internet.

If you're a libertarian and believe in the free market, then unsubscribe and move on and actually DO something in the fight for liberty. If they see that too many people unsubscribe then they will need to adjust their way of doing things. If they are doing it this way it's because it works. Can it be improved? Surely it can, why don't you come up with productive suggestions rather than bitching against an ally in the fight for liberty.

So much bitching and complaining all the time, at least they're in the fight not on the sidelines bitching as we move ever closer to complete tyranny and totalitarianism and yet another war.

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."


What have they done? I'm being sincere, I really don't know. I've gone to the site a few times but I almost never hear them brought up.. anywhere. If anyone could help me out there it would be appreciated.

Remember they don't get bailout money...

And they don't have huge corporate sponsors. We're all they've got.
: (

All the money bombs we did for Ron Paul...it was all grass roots. So whenever they need more money, it's going to come back to us. I think the emails are annoying. I don't read them anymore. But I skim through and always sign the requested petition or whatever the action plan is (call your congressman regarding...). Once in a while I'll donate...just because... who else will?

They just had a money bomb for an effort to fund an Audit the Fed effort. Sadly, I don't think they met their goal. I hear all your frustrating comments with C4L's emails. But without any donations, it will collapse and implode.
: |


...seems that way.

Time for them to shift gears.


"Take hold of the future or the future will take hold of you." -- Patrick Dixon

Political spam

Every political action committee, every political organization runs on donations, charitable events, and the occasional multi-millionaire donor to help them along. The nature of the situation online has become something like, if X is doing this, we need to do this. So yes, it has become robotic, it has become automated, but is it unsolicited?

Well, people have varying definitions of spam. E-mail you don't like is not spam. E-mail you never requested and is being sent unsolicited IS spam. I suspect that during some time during your/our interactions with Campaign For Liberty, we dutifully clicked on some "I accept" button to a large number of terms and conditions, which, dutifully signed us up to receive regular mailings.

When I login to the White House website, to check that Petition We The People thing, I am automatically signed back up to the White House spam list or something, as well. Even though I have unsubscribed numerous times, just for using this service, I am brought back in and the e-mails start rolling again. I would consider this unsolicited.



I left C4L for this very reason. Insulting, incompetent, sleazy and wasteful is how I would sum up these spammy emails, mailers and leadership running this organization. I have repeatedly unsubscribed to the emails and have asked them to stop sending me their costly, multipaged, full colored glossy petitions for more money...so they can send me more of the same for more of the same, etc etc...
They still come. I donated online, why am I even receiving mailers??

My donations were not being well spent and I felt the organization was being mismanaged, assets and talent squandered, so I left to push liberty in my own way. And it's too bad too, I had high hopes for C4L. I signed up the first day and thought C4L would be this amazing vehicle to effect much good. Perhaps it has done some good, I'll grant it that, but not as much as it had the potential to do. C4L blew it. I think many people were turned off and left because of the very reasons you point out. I don't know who is responsible for it but it seems Ron Paul is deaf to any criticism of anyone he employs, so I don't know what if anything can be done about it. People have been complaining about John Tate, Jesse Benton et all for years to no avail. Let the one with the biggest voice, the free market, have its way with it I suppose. If things like this are not changed it will shrivel up and blow away. Which would be a shame. In the meantime I would suggest supporting other more transparent, more responsive and effective liberty organizations with your time, money and efforts.

Linda Cross's picture

Totally agree, nothing makes me want to give LESS

than an email from C$L! except maybe an e mail from Democrats.com which is very similar. Their latest e mail blatantly asked everyone to reconfirm their support for the C4L so that they could turn the list over to some government agency to prevent themselves from being shut down, boo hoo. It seems they want to prove that they actually do have a following. I've been signed up with the C4L since day one at the 2008 convention. I renamed my Ron Paul 2008 Meet Up group the "Campaign For Liberty" when I got back from Minneapolis. The Official Campaign moved in and took over the group, but by that time the group was just a skeleton and the C4L took over a web site. I wouldn't want to harm the C4L so I will stop here. Ron Paul had good intentions when he started the organization, I'm sure that their political training classes and political actions have done a lot of good. But, it is a centralized bureaucracy which kills the grass roots, and that's a darn shame.

If you see something, say something, the government is listening.
Silence isn't golden, it's yellow.

"C$L", nice!

That made me chuckle. Ironic isn't it? That the Dollar sign "$" is [Shift + 4]? hehehe.

Linda Cross's picture

It happened by accident

but I decided to leave it that way! lol

If you see something, say something, the government is listening.
Silence isn't golden, it's yellow.

Send Money... Sky is Falling

That pretty much sums up the emails and mailers I get.


It's obvious that a non-libertarian is running that outfit. Nobody with any objectivism or 'honest trader' libertarianism would put out such poorly written begging barely disguised as calls to political action. John Tate and Jesse Benton and everyone else over at C4L need to sit down and read Atlas Shrugged and do a book report until they grok it.

I've tried to spread what little I have

around to C4L and others thinking it would go to waking up others. Instead, it seems they just use that money to send me more requests for more money. I get emails every day stringing me on and then asking for more.


C4L is run according to a business/activism model of typical conservative think tanks. It's not designed for the DailyPaul user. It's probably good to have criticism, but I don't see it changing, but I also think we should focus on positive things.

The people who donate to C4L are likely older - and everything about those letters they send are designed to appeal to the older generation. They have done some good things in pushing for Audit the Fed and many other things.

We sure do love to circle the wagons....
Uh, I mean attack each other...

O, libertarians...

Check out http://iroots.org/
"If you’re into political activism, at least for Ron Paul if not for anyone else, I strongly recommend spending some time with iroots.org." - Tom Woods

Yes, go to LPAC 2013!

I feel exactly as the reader about the C4L pitches. No one has mentioned the mailings! Imagine what those cost? Mine go right in the round file. I remember the first one I received. I opened it with such eagerness. How was the C4L going to communicate? It HAD to be good, it was coming from my hero, Dr. Paul. My disappointment was HUGE, it was no different than any other multi-page, two sided, used car salesman-like crap for any other entity that wanted money. These things have continued to come for almost five years, so they must be getting money. I can't only imagine if they had someone at the head of these email & mail campaigns who knew the kind of letters we'd like to receive.....

But, I went to LPAC in Reno in 2011 & it was SENSATIONAL! Often, there were speakers I wanted to hear in separate rooms, speaking at the same time. You have to choose your schedule carefully. You'll also meet a lot of new friends, so don't hesitate to go.

Yes, you pegged how I felt

Yes, you pegged how I felt when I got my first full-size envelop from C4L in the mail. I thought it was an oddity (lengthy, writing style), but the second and the third were exactly the same. I think I stuck with them through number 5. Those have to be pricey to mail, which, I suppose, means a healthy chunk of any donations I've made has gone right back into attempts to wrench more money from me.

I will try to craft a response to C4L that isn't just a rant. Thanks for encouraging me to be thoughtful and hopeful.

I stopped reading when RP

I stopped reading when RP left Campaign for Liberty due to legal reasons relating to his campaign. In fact, I became a member of Daily Paul right around the time he left because C4L went into the crapper pretty quick. I only really cared until the Audit the Fed stuff was over because they were spearheading it.

Paul 3V0L's picture

I think you hit the nail on

I think you hit the nail on the head. The spam emails are annoying. They definitely need a better approach. Which got me to thinking how important it is that we improve our delivery of the Liberty message. I watched a lot of C4L's YouTube videos of guest speakers and became a fan (Judge Nap is the MAN). That led me sign up for the LPAC 2013 conference in VA coming up in a couple of weeks. I hope I didn't waste my money, because that's how you're making me feel lol.

This site has all kinds of potential to crank out innovative ideas. We have all the resources we need are at our finger tips. I think you may have opened up a door for yourself here. Perhaps you should contract out a few sample email newsletters with C4L and see if you are capable of doing a better job reaching the reader. Seriously, I'm sure someone within the organization has read everything said on this thread and is probably rethinking their strategy-- thanks to you. If they aren't, they should be. You sound like you have some real experience (good job marketing). What if someone were to actually offer you a job doing just that? Would you consider?

Twitter: @MyRealThought_s
Instagram: Libertarian_Thoughts

Although I write for a

Although I write for a living, I've never done marketing copy and doubt I could write a check out of anyone. Thanks for reminding me to get busy on a response with suggestions and an edit.

psnow's picture

Right on......

I tried my best to dump them right after I found out they 'SOLD' my information to the RNC. It wasn't until I got a letter from one of their attorneys soliciting me one more time that I finally wrote to tell them that if I received any more letters with a lawyer letterhead, that I would get one of my own if they did not stop sending solicitations and take me and my private information off of their 'list'. It stopped for a while, but now they are coming again through my wife's name.

I could not agree more that these tactics do not reflect well for Dr. Paul, whom I still have tremendous respect. He could, and in my humble opinion, should, distance himself from this group. But I suppose the roots run pretty deep.

"I just want to live in a free country" - Dr. Ron Paul

I unsubscribed yesterday

I too got sick of the long-winded messages with little substance other than to ask for money. Cya later, C4L.


All of it. Nothing new, nothing moving the mission forward. It's a rehash of the last year's news every email. They could do a lot better. They should learn from Ron Paul: he didn't beg for money every day when he was campaigning. But the money rolled in because he was on message. I find C4L's emails wholly unreadable. The last email was particularly gruesome. What I want from C4L is an advancement of the Audit the Fed legislation; more bills that roll back big government intrusions (especially the sort that can get sufficient support to pass); a "guide" to 2014 races--what allies are running, who's vulnerable but doesn't have a good opponent, & what my state's deadlines are (relevant to my specific district).


This would actually be useful and I would donate to something like that.

Pointy haired boss, when he was younger.

It's where the buck stops.

Free includes debt-free!


Audit the FED! - "Got any fed notes for me?" - CFL

I also read that email today. It might be good to reach out to local CFL members and keep networking with the old school Paulers. Not a lot of new CFL. YAL is getting all the new memberships. We have Ron Paul coming to our local university Sept 24th in CO.

not donating EVER...

...To c4l again until they hire Tom Woods and Andrew Napolitano to run the show.

I talk of Freedom, You talk of the Flag.
I talk of Revolution, You'd much rather brag

Who cares?

If you don't like national C4L ignore them.

Do you know who your local C4L organizer is? If not, why don't you become that person and do it your way?

Don't complain. That's for little b*tches. Do it yourself!


to which I unsubscribed back after I found out Ron Paul's campaign wasn't in it to win it.

lindalsalisbury's picture

C4L goes to spam too!

This was a comment title I made shortly after the 2012 double-cross.

I haven't changed my mind. I never looked at another one!