49 votes

Granger, Fishy and My Evolution

When I first became a member here one of the first names I remember seeing and respecting was Granger. Granger was always sharp and convincing and was pleasant but assertive. Fishy, on the other hand, struck me as a little crazy. Kinda the stereotypical libertarian nut job.

I don't know exactly what happened. Did Granger change??? or was I just susceptible to the tactics I notice in her current chicanery??? It seems like it is less of rational discussion, where you are understanding and interested in others opinions; and more about pumping out a message. Usual interactions take on psyops type feel where you doubt she is even considering your comments, but rather waiting for an opportunity to broadcast, again whatever her current agenda appears to be. Reminds me of how Hannity will repeat the same talking points over and over trying to drill it in your brain.

Fishy, on the other hand, was always pro-liberty and anti-state. she has been banned for a while now but just the other day I came across an old comment of hers and remember missing her. She was always posting something intriguing that I hadn't heard about, whether it was about scientists carrying on Tesla's work, gardening news, or just whatever crazy conspiracy she was coming across.

I'm sure their was ample reason for banning her, and I'm not questioning the decision, but I enjoyed the contribution she had to the site... Then I just clicked on a post titled 'If you support Assad, this is what you support Peace? NOT' which is barely even coherent, and then the brainless assertion that if you don't support Syrian action you are somehow anti-peace and probably a jew hater spurred the thought 'I miss fishy'.

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I've been a lurker...

I've always been a regular lurker more so than an active poster but I miss Fishy too. I enjoyed reading her posts. I can't say I always agreed but she added an interesting element to the DP and definately made you think...

Another term for preventive war is aggressive war- starting wars because someday somebody might do something to us. That is not part of the American tradition.
-Ron Paul

I like Granger. Some of her

I like Granger. Some of her comments do make you want to pull your hair out though! LOL

I have noticed some changes in her personality these last few months. There could be some medical or other issues going on that we don't know about, so try to be patient with her.

“Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it’s realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy.”
― Ron Paul

rpscallion's picture

Maybe she's been driven to be that way

by all these low life neo-nazis that showed up around here, because unlike them she refuses to group hate Israel and Jews like they do, but they want her to. So they gang pile and down vote anything she says in their little brat temper tantrums. Even if what she says is something unrelated that is supportive or nice to someone.

Seems unlikely...

Our society trends toward being overly sensitive to not offend, and for some it is taboo to question Israeli policy. Well, libertarians don't see people in groups, they view people as individuals, and when they criticize of individuals who happen to be jews those who are overly sensitive get uncomfortable, irrational, and start calling others jew-haters. I'd say it's more likely she is overly sensitive and has let it build up and manifest until it's released in completely irrational hate filled reactions.

valid opinions and truth

sometimes like oil and water, they just don't mix, matters not the force of stirring
all comments are welcome in my world
I will prolly change me mind when I learn to read


those picture comments are always good!

Cult of Personality

It seems some posters really take on an online identity, and that some really embrace their place in the online community.

This makes things more personal than they need to be, leading to annoying posts about how the site has changed and how the poster is leaving the website (often reappearing days later) etc..

This is a website/forum with news and mostly polite discussion. It is a great website I enjoy. When it comes to people trolling, fighting, making emotional posts etc. I do not take part. If I see it a lot I will block the person and using the website becomes better. Granger I blocked a while back, forgot about until this post, and with the user blocked my experience improved.

My advice to anyone reading: if you see a post that annoys you, seems ridiculous, is embarrassing to the community... don't read it, ignore it, and if it is too hard to ignore or you are sick of someone block them.

Cult of Personality

reminds me of how TV and Radio personalities do the same thing. They get all wrapped up in their broadcast identity, fueled by the attention and fame, and just run with it.

rogan has some interesting thoughts on it:

I think the same thing happens to politicians too.

I adore Granger

but there are topics of hers that I wont buy into.
Imagine the energy she would bring to liberty if she really, really "Woke Up". Troll or not, she would be on Fire.

My opinion:

Granger and I disagree about many, many things, however, she still brings value to this site.

Preaching to the choir does no good, most would find it repetitive and boring and leave for good. When others visit for the first time, they may understand our positions better, after thought out and well debated conversations are laid out on the table.

Granger has also been correct on various issues.

If you do not like a member or a post, move on, there is nothing forcing you to read or engage.

This is the Daily Paul. It is not fox/msn.

I miss Fishy too :-)

"What if the American people learn the truth" - Ron Paul


I think most people here do not have a problem with opposing viewpoints. However, with Granger it is painfully obvious there are Troll tactics being deployed. That NEVER elevates the discussion it just results in mud flinging and minds closing. Some of her responses to me have 100% smelled of Troll, i couldn't even respond to it it was so bat$#@!

Nobody is that stupid unless they're insane or it's all a big show...i.e Sean Hannity.

One last thing, I don't know if anybody noticed but she even has a "Troll doll" as her Avatar...

"I am Troll fighter, number one"



LOL at the troll doll !

Every time I see that ugly thing I think "man, that's ugly" Never getting the humor in the "Troll" thing until now.

I agree

I see stuff that is fairly ridiculous in my opinion but i don't let it get to me. I have a hard time understanding why people let those things get them into an emotional tizzy. I have never blocked anyone. If I see something stupid I just carry on smartly and read another post that is more interesting.

Yes spoon less one.

I can't figure why my friends don't get along.

I left them all free. Apparently other factors are involved.

I've never blocked anyone, either. I just keep an eye on them.

Free includes debt-free!

I had nothing but pleasant interactions with 'Fishy'

'Granger' on the other hand...

I don't really recall Granger ever being kind when expressing their opinions and rarely did they take into account the views of those they were opposing. You're right, it's like they wait just to spew more of their own beliefs onto others. Such a lame and old way of communicating. Some people end up becoming more and more defensive and irrational when they attempt to protect their old beliefs rather than adapting them when exposed to new information. It's Cognitive Dissonance at its finest.

At the same time, don't discount the fact that YOUR own beliefs and views have changed and those you once saw eye to eye with no longer "resonate" with your evolved point of view.

Either way, you seem to be very aware of those around here and their opinions and can feel the difference when communicating with those of like mind and those who are not. Keep exposing yourself to new ideas and points of view and ALWAYS seize the opportunity to challenge your own beliefs.

Knowledge is Power. Never Stop Learning.

"We are not human beings having a spiritual experience; we are spiritual beings having a human experience"—Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

Downvoting and Silencing

I would like to point out that every post by Granger on this thread has been downvoted so severely that I can't read them.

Please don't silence her that way. I don't know why people are piling on her...maybe I haven't read enough posts on this site...but please at least allow her to defend herself. If nothing else, at least allow me to see what she has to say.

You can also

just click on the subject line of the post and it will reveal the rest of the comment.

Sometimes her presence is seemingly overwhelming to the site making her hard to avoid.. and it squeezes out some of the truly unique and interesting posters that make the DP original and awesome. I haven't blocked anyone, so not sure how that effects things, but I don't really want to block her either. I'd prefer if people could just treat others with respect, like you would if you were in the same room, but it's not my site so maybe I'll block her.

LittleWing's picture

Here you go Prescience500

read all you want:


You can expand the comments, just click on 'all' then click the comment you want to see to open it.

The Granger has not commented on this particular thread yet. However, your comment does have some merit because part of the problem has been that most of her comments have been down voted to 'disappear' on the threads, which causes the casual observer/reader not to see the many offensive remarks. Therefore, many have been or still are 'in the dark' as to why The Granger is getting such negative reaction. The Granger is on here every day 8-12 hours making many distracting/disruptive posts so don't worry 'she' has had plenty of opportunity to express 'herself'. I Hope this helps.

If Wars Can Be Started by Lies, They Can Be Stopped By Truth.

Thank you. I suggest...

Thank you. I guess it was her defenders who were downvoted to the point of being silenced. Either way, I looked at her posts and threads. It seems more like someone who has been emersed in views and information that opposes us rather than someone who is selling out. I would suggest people be patient and respectful with her and educate her in as calmly and logically as possible. I'd stay away from conspiratorial stuff when trying to persuade her since she leans toward skeptisism generally.

For instance, she says that Assad is evil. Agree with her because he's an evil despot. She says not all rebels are bad. Agree because there are many factions with different intrests. Then tell her what you think we should do. Don't just say no. I just mentioned in a post that we should support private institutions like Students for Liberty that spread the messege of liberty around the world. That way, we can hasten the day that Syria is ready for an American-styled republic. War is not the answer.

LittleWing's picture

Many here have tried to reason calmly

just as you suggest and many here have expressed genuine concern for her mental well-being as well, but sadly nothing seems to have changed the apparent disconnect in logic and reasoning. I stated months ago my concern and also that it would be best not to feed into whatever is happening with her at this time. Something is not right, I have even wondered if the account has been hijacked. Best to employ Formosa's Law: http://www.ovguide.com/formosa%27s-law-9202a8c04000641f80000...

If Wars Can Be Started by Lies, They Can Be Stopped By Truth.

This can take years

Calling someone mentally ill is not what I had in mind. Seriously...how many people here used to be neocons or socialists? Were we won over by insults? No. It took many years in my case and I assure you that I would never have been persuaded if people on the side of liberty talked to me the way they are talking to Granger now. Rather than disagreeing with an insult, you'll improve your effectiveness by disagreeing with a complement. That way, a person's ego doesn't get in their way of logic as much. Don't get me wrong, though. Don't expect miricles. It may take years to win her or others over.

LittleWing's picture

Yes, I know

it can take years. What has happened here is a long time member has had a complete change in character and tone and has constantly insulted many that have tried reasonable discourse. This has been going on for about 6 months non-stop. So yes, many have grown weary of it and have lost patience. I don't know if it is an illness or 'trolling' but I have decided the best course for me at this point is to not feed in to it any longer by blocking the account. Please feel free to do your best if you think you are up to it.

If Wars Can Be Started by Lies, They Can Be Stopped By Truth.

How ironic

that she has a troll for a profile pic. LOL!

Uh..., maybe you can't read them because

she hasn't made any comments on this thread!

Nobody is silencing her and nobody is preventing you from reading what she's written. WTF?

If you mean so many down votes that the comments ON OTHER THREADS are collapsed, then go to those threads and just click on the subject title and you can read them all to your heart's content.

“It is the food which you furnish to your mind that determines the whole character of your life.”
―Emmet Fox

i could understand

siding with granger, if you are a neocon statist pretending to be a liberty lover. I cannot begin to understand anyone characterizing her arguments as respectable, sharp, convincing, or pleasant. I would question the poster's sanity if he/she really believes that.

I agree given her recent

representation. it's puzzling that that is my first impression of her, but that was 4 1/2 years ago, the me of now would have disagreed with the me of then a lot too though I guess.

I am actually kinda concerned for Granger

At first, I just attributed her changes to her joining the GOP end being neoconned. But lately, her posts have been getting more and more incoherent. Which makes me wonder, could she be dealing with some mental issues, like dementia or Alzheimer's? Please, do not take this as an attempt to insult her. I am seriously wondering, because her posts are becoming incoherent. If I am way off, I apologize.

“The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants.” — Albert Camus

scawarren's picture

I've thought the same things,

I've thought the same things, Ed and I've also entertained the idea that someone is threatening her. Regardless of what it is I hope she gets it under control and gets back to her old self.

It is easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. – Mark Twain

Multiple personalities are at play there.

Of that, I am convinced. What I don't know is whether The Granger is actually a screen name for one or more paid provocateurs (notice the 180 degree turnaround and how the dyslexia comes and goes?), or if she is actually mentally ill. It saddens me, in either case, since The Granger I loved had a such a beautiful heart and soul. That Granger is gone and another has taken her place, one who possess neither beauty nor grace.

Got this from a comment Little Wing made a while back about The Granger: http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Formosa%27s-law Makes sense in this case. Unfortunately, because many of us really do care, the only thing we can do to help The Granger, if it is mental illness, is to not feed into it. Don't comment or reply to her posts.

If, however, it is a case of agent(s) at play, the course of treatment is the same. Just ignore the posts and comments, no matter how outrageous they may be.

“It is the food which you furnish to your mind that determines the whole character of your life.”
―Emmet Fox