22 votes

When asked if vehicle can be searched - when no crime has taken place - you say NO and the officer

starts shining flashlight in vehicle, folds down driver's seat and see's my purse and ask to go through it and I say, "No, that is my private property". I had already given the officer my driver's license while we were both standing at the bumper of my nice 2001 Chevy stepside, bright yellow truck with 22" chrome rims. I was on private property and after cleaning my sheds out in my back yard went on the look for some cardboard boxes to put stuff I was going to donate to the needy in Mexico. I drove into the parking lot of "Walgreens" and parked my truck, turned off engine and got out and walked to area that contains their discards - I opened the enclosed gate and saw there was a bar across the top of their bin so, I closed gate and was walking back to my vehicle. Half way to my truck a vehicle approached with lights off. I stopped and turned to see a police car had pulled in about 3 car lengths away from where my truck was parked. I gave a friendly wave and approached the cop car and then greeted the officer with, "hi, officer - how are you doing tonight? I guess you want ID - It is in my truck, I will get it for you" He said, "okay". I went to my truck - got my DL and returned and by this time he was out of his vehicle and half way between his car and where my truck was parked. I handed him my DL and we began talking. He asked what I was doing and I explained I stopped to see if I could find some boxes to pack things I was donating to the needy in Mexico. I explained to him that I help my Dad, who owns property in Rocky Point, Mexico (4 hrs. from Phx.) hand out donated items to the poor people on a regular basis. I told him my dad had been doing this for close to 40 years now and that we also feed sometimes close to 4,000 hungry people down there and also feed the dogs that are starving. I am sitting on my bumper at this point. I told him that I saw there was a bar across where any boxes would be - so, I was going to go look at the recycle bin across the street. He ran my DL and then asked if I had any outstanding warrants, unpaid fines, or any thing else against my license. I told him, "no" ----- everything is fine with my license. He then asked, "Do you have any weapons and is anyone else in your truck?" I said, "no, I only live a few blocks from here - was getting boxes and returning home". He then walks to the driver's door which was open as I follow him, I ask, "I forgot to give you my registration and proof of Insurance - do you need that too? He said, "No" and started shining his light all around my truck's interior. I then said, "so, I can go now?" He then says, "you mind if I search your truck?" and I said, "for what reason, I haven't done anything?" - mind you - he keeps shining his light under seats and then says - "you've been stopped before" - I said, "yes for a light out on my license plate and as far as searching my vehicle - no, there is no reason - I pose no threat " - Then he starts asking, "why you so nervous?" I said, "nervous, I'm not nervous" He said, "you seem nervous now and that makes me suspicious" I said, "If I seem nervous now it is because you are trying to make up reasons to give you a reason to search my property after I told you no - and yes, that does make me nervous that you are respecting my right to say no" Next thing he does is radio's another officer to bring in the 'dog'. I said why are you doing that - I haven't done anything. Before the dog arrives he says wait in front of his police car and I sat on the bumper. He goes to my truck and comes back with a broken piece of glass and says is there anything else in your truck? I said I don't even know what that is. Then, says I will test it - I said you are going to have to, then we will both know. The officer with the dog arrives and ask me, "before I put the dog on your vehicle is there anything else you would like to tell me you have in there, because if there are large sums of money or drugs in your truck - he will find it and then we can take your truck". I again told both officers, "there is nothing in my truck". The officer gives me a threatening look and takes the dog all over my truck 2 or 3 times, puts dog in car and comes back and says, "do you have drugs on the inside panel of the driver's door - I got a hit (or some word he used implying the dog was excited over what was in the door). I told him, "there is nothing in my door or in my truck". He said, " I'll rip that whole door panel off if I have too". I said, "why do you want to tear up my truck, it is all I have to get to work and please don't destroy it - there is nothing in there". He sighed and went and got tools out of his car and headed to my truck. I said, "please be gentle with taking it off and would you please put it back on when you are done, because I don't know how to put it back together if you take it apart". He finishes (he was inside my truck for appx 1 hour and finds nothing. He goes over to the other officer who has been inside the drivers side of his car watching me through his window as the dog and officer destroy my car and whispers for about 5 minutes to him. I asked the officer if he was kind enough to put my door panel back on and he said, "yes, but there were two cracks at the bottom part of it to begin with" - There were no cracks on my door panels before all this happened. He leaves and I wait for another 30 or 40 min. I finally asked the officer, "is this going to be much longer - I am tired, I have to work early tomorrow and I just want to go home so I can get some sleep before work" . He then tells me he is issuing a citation to me. I asked, "for what?" He then tells me to sign the citation for possession of drug paraphernalia and that if I don't show up for court as shown that a warrant for my arrest will be issued. I said, "you are giving me a ticket for that broken thing you brought over before the dog got here?" I said, " I have to sign this?" he said, "yes" and then he hand me another thing to sign that said, " fingerprint notice" and told me that I had to show up one week before my court date and if I didn't I would be charged with failure to obey and interfering with a police officer per Town of Gilbert Municipal Order 42-179. I looked up that code online and it says it is unlawful to hinder, obstruct or delay any police officer in the line of performing his duties as provided in section 2-314. I look up section 2-314 and find that code had been repealed. Is it legal to have to submit to fingerprints before going to court to find the charges against me. Isn't that implying guilt before even going before the court. I also wonder if the officer why they searched my truck? If he had probable cause or was in danger why didn't he search me and why before I said no to the search and was talking to him casually at the back of my truck did he not tell me he thought I was nervous. Why was I not arrested or read my Miranda rights when they were asking questions and why when I said, "no" did he keep on searching without a warrant? Can I file a demurrer because I felt coheres and under duress having to sign these. I could use some help in where to start to have my rights protected and have this act of police government that is threatening my rights and freedom taken from me if I don't do something to stand up for this inconsideration of our protection by the constitution. The Arizona constitution even says they can't do these things but, I am afraid if I point out these injustices - I will end up in prison or made to pay for what was wronged by them. Please help, anyone.

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You need a lawyer right now

Call a lawyer today. Not to scare you, but the fact that they're falsifying evidence and giving you a hard time is really scarry. They claim to have found meth pipes in your car! If you don't get a lawyer, things may get a lot worse. Do not go to court again without a lawyer please. If you can't afford one, make a payment arrangement. MANY lawyers will work with you on price/payment terms. Make sure it's a criminal defense lawyer. Don't mess around with your buddies divorce lawyer or whatever. You may need one who doesn't work out of your county. Sometimes lawyers wont fight as hard in their own towns because they have to represent the next 50 people after you in the same court room. They don't want to make enemies. Out of town lawyers don't care about that as much.

I see lots of advice for what you SHOULD have done...

That's only relevant if a similar encounter should occur in the future, which may happen. But that does you no good for your present predicament.

Hire an attorney. Hire an attorney. Hire an attorney. The City's case, from what you have said here, all stems from a questionable search. The open car door leaves wiggle room for a plain view explanation, but you did not ever consent to a search, so that's in your favor.

You do not want to try to handle a drug paraphernalia case pro se. Hire an attorney. Hire an attorney. Hire an attorney.

That's the best advice I can give you. God Speed. Keep us posted on what happens.

questionable search, questionable evidence

We must have been typing our posts at the same time. :)

I'd love to see what the evidence looks like in discovery. If they pull two meth pipes out of a locker, that is a really really scary town to be pulled over in. My guess is, they don't expect her to file for discovery which is why they're trying to ramrod her into a guilty plea or a public defenders office.

Never talk to cops. Just say no thank you.

Never talk to cops, especially the ones outside the town you live in. My lawyer Alan Shapiro will cut your balls off if you do.

If you have nothing else to say, say; My lawyer Alan Shapiro will cut my balls off if I talk to you, period. End of story. Do I make myself clear?

I am assuming you are pretty new here.

There have been countless posts about never talking to the cops. They are not on your side. All they want is an easy arrest to justify their existence.
Never talk to the cops! period. Why in the world would you approach them and offer your ID???

Formerly rprevolutionist

I am very new here - I am fed up with the injustice!

I went to court on the 25th of this month.

There were over 40 or more persons in the courtroom - some left standing with no place to sit. The court clerk told all family and friends to wait outside so those with citations could sit.

The judge talked to the whole courtroom as one. He told everyone that they were there for a misdemeanor - there are no felonies (although, when I looked up my statute number it states it is a felony)

The judge then told the courtroom that they could talk to the prosecuting atty or they could pay $175. to be appointed an atty. He also said that if anyone chose to hire there own atty the cost would be appx. 1,000 - 2,000 in comparison to a court appointed atty at $175.00 of which they could pay a monthly payment until however long it takes to pay it off.

I went up with a group of 2 others. The judge asked if we understood our rights - I stated "no" because my rights had never been read to me and that I was confused if I was under arrest or not because I never went to jail after being detained for over 2 hours.

The judge told me to stop asking questions and to go over to the side and sit down until he decided to deal with me. I Had to wait through 30 or more people.

He then called me up to the stand and asked me what my problem was - I told him that I wanted to ask for a continuance so I could get enough money to get my own lawyer. I said I didn't want to give up any of my rights but didn't know if I had been arrested or not.

The judge asked what crime I had committed and I said I was not cited for a crime only that I was cited for an illegal search. He then asked the prosecuting atty what I was charged with and he said, "possession of drug paraphernalia"

The judge asked me, "what drugs did you get caught with?" I said, "I had no drugs - just pieces of broken glass is what they found" He then asked the prosecuting atty, "what did they find?" He said, "ughhh...a pipe...." I said, "there was no pipe your honor - only broken glass" the prosecuting atty says, "two pipes" then the judge asked me what was in the pipes and I told him I didn't know. The prosecuting atty speaks up and says, "meth".

Then the judge says I am ordering you to go to task before 5 pm and submit to a drug test. I said, " I thought a person is innocent until proven guilty and I have not been given the chance to plead yet"

The mouths on the remaining people in the courtroom were open in shock - as was mine. The prosecutor then said to the judge, "do you want a DRE?" So, then a police entered and the judge said I am putting a $1,000. bond on you - do you have someone that can post it?" and I said, "yes - but, what did I do?" He said, "you interrupted me when I asked to you to talk to the prosecutor - you said you didn't understand your rights"

I said, "because if I talked to the prosecutor then I waive my rights to suppress evidence and object to the validity of my arrest"

The judge said, "none of the rest of the courtroom had a problem talking to the prosecutor or having a court appointed atty"

I said, "maybe they did not know they were giving up their rights by pleading guilty."

Then, a police took me into a room and called my father and told him I had a $1,000.00 release bond on me and could he get two $500 money orders and bring them to the court house before five o'clock? It was now 20 minutes until 5 o'clock. I had been in court since 1:30 p.m.

The police then hand cuffed me and took me back into the court room and then the judge had the police take me into a room off of the court room and gave me these weird tests and then put me in a cell? Then another police came and took me in to some maze and down into a holding tank.

When my dad arrived with the money they told him he had to have cash. So, it took another hour or so to find a police who could take money orders because the court could not.

My release orders were the same ticket number and citation number that I had been given by the police on my arrest. This citation gave me a new arraignment date of this morning at 8:30a.m.

The judge was totally different attitude and made me sign a waiver of council and gave me a new court date of 10/30/2013.

I asked if this was two different charges and he said no the same one.

Never have I seen such a violation of constitutional rights being done as I witnessed. It was terrifying. This courtroom was a big money making machine in process.

My God, what has happened to the constitution and all it stands for?

reginatotheb

Remember one thing ...

After you get all your advice here at the dp ...

And you decide to go it alone ...

You have to request a jury trial in writing. Otherwise it will be a bench trial.

You have to know the system.

You are going in at a distinct disadvantage.

I would highly recommend a lawyer.

One that is willing to sue after you win.

God Bless and good luck.

In my Shakespearean English

Me thinks you talk too much to the police officer.

Thanks for the links...

...

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they attack you, then you win!"
GANDHI

"The belief is worthless if the fear of social and physical punishment overrides the belief."

Some things I see wrong

A cop will likely have a judge confirm his actions when he states he found a bright yellow truck with 20" rims in a poorly-lit or dark parking lot with a person walking towards vehicle. He will state that he felt that he was interrupting a drug deal and thus was justified in his reasonable suspicion, etc. That's going to be his version of the story.

Yeah, you pleaded with him to not search your vehicle but a person in possession of drugs would have done the same thing. Word to the wise, police often have bags of dope and sometimes plant evidence. If they think you are a druggie and have convicted you in their mind but can't find the evidence to support it, some cops will place the evidence.

In the future, lock your car up when you are not in it. Cars get stolen a lot faster than 60 seconds. Leaving the door open invites prying eyes. Also, don't initiate contact with police. If they want to investigate you, they'll initiate a Terry Stop on your vehicle. By leaving of your own accord, this forces him to have to rely on additional circumstances to stop you, such as if a plate check revealed a prior arrest for drug-related charges (which will now be the case from here on out since you signed that ticket). If you had left and he pulled you over without additional suspicion or cause arising from your vehicle or plate check, he would have questioned you on why you were in that parking lot. You can challenge that by asking if being in a parking lot is against the law but generally speaking, with cops, less is more.

Criminal defense lawyers spend a large amount of time undoing the fallout that resulted from what their clients said to a cop without the presence of an attorney. It sounds like you and these cops had quite a conversation, what with you pleading for them not to tear apart your car and all. It would be difficult if not impossible to remember every bit of that conversation and in what order. It might be possible that something you said gave them consent to search the vehicle. It might have been an exasperated "fine!" that gave them consent. It doesn't take much. That's why it is important to remember that less is more. The least you could have done to help them build a case against you would have been to leave right away without initiating any contact. The next least you could have done would have been to say "am I being detained or am I free to go?" They hate that question, they will usually ask something else or say something that doesn't answer that question, etc. Don't let go of your wish to be answered. Make them answer that question or just repeat it until you can no longer speak. If they say they are detaining you, you tell them that you will not speak to them anymore without an attorney present. If they say you aren't detained, wish them a good night and go home.

Now that you know more about how to handle cops, here's my advice about how to fix what happened. Lawyer up! Sorry, and I wish you didn't have to spend money on this but cops and judges will walk all over a person who doesn't have a lawyer. If you can't afford a lawyer, ask for a public defender and insist on one. A good lawyer may not only defeat this but may discover that your rights were so violated that you should go on the offensive and sue them.

Here's a flowchart of what to say in any encounter with a cop:

1: "Am I being detained or am I free to go?"
Cop responds "Yes".
You say "I am not saying another word or consenting to any search or seizure. I want a lawyer."

2: "Am I being detained or am I free to go?"
Cop responds "you're not being detained."
You say "Have a good day, officer." and leave

3. "Am I being detained or am I free to go?"
Cop responds "why aren't you being cooperative?"
or "I'm just asking a couple questions, that's all."
You repeat the phrase at the beginning of point #1.

________________________________________

BS

there is no rigid magical formula for what to do.

It changes greatly depend on how likely you are to have warrants, illegal things in your car, etc., and even the attitude of the policeman.

If you start out with am I being detained, you can quickly escalate it into a situation where that cop will do the maximum he thinks he can do, and that may mean searching, delaying you ata minimum, or a bogus charge or arrest, or even a legitimate charge or arrest.

Be smart.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

why in the world would anyone downvote this?

it is just common sense

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

Well, it wasn't me downvoting it

However, my advice isn't always going to keep you out of jail. It will, make your attorney's job easier. When you say a bunch of things and the cop says a bunch of things, it becomes your word against theirs in a courtroom with a judge who will walk all over your civil rights if you aren't represented. It also makes it difficult to piece together the sequence of events regarding the investigative portion of the contact.

I think one of the first things is to lose your fear of getting taken to jail or even spending a day there. I was tossed in a holding cell from 8am of day 1 to 9pm of day 2. There was no way to avoid arrest in that encounter, I had an outstanding failure-to-appear warrant and that day I was rear-ended on my way to work so an encounter was unavoidable. Of course, the cop told me that if I had told them I had a warrant that she could have avoided arresting me.

In the end, if you think you can talk your way out of a paraphernalia possession charge, then by all means go ahead and try. The cops will most certainly respect your civil rights. I've been told to stand in front of a couple of police cars on different occasions. Those incidents never resulted in arrest because I shut up and gave them nothing to turn reasonable suspicion into probable cause. That's where the original poster had things turn for the worst, reasonable suspicion of a vehicle hanging out in a dark parking lot with a person approaching it is suspicious. Could have been a drug deal, could have been prostitution, etc. You have to do your best to stay quiet and don't let your words move the situation from reasonable suspicion to probable cause. There's always 4 phases to a traffic stop...the Terry Stop, reasonable suspicion, probable cause, and arrest.

You might also consider learning about "totality of circumstances". For example, you see a man with a gun and several shell casings at his feet. On examination of the weapon you see that it has been recently fired. The man tells you he has just shot several rounds with it. Do you arrest him?

Same circumstances but now you are at an indoor firing range and there are several people there doing the same thing.

Same circumstances again but now it's 3am. The firearms store has been closed for several hours. The alarm is going off and several display cases are smashed open and the door has signs of forced entry.

________________________________________

yes but you

have to admit, there has been a bit of internet myth built up recently about the infallibility of the magic words "am I being detained?" In other words they aren't magic at all.

The other day, I was pulled over. To put it in perspective, I have no plate on the front, my rear plate is obscured by a bike rack, and one headlight is out. Plenty of reasons to pull me over. The officer could at that point either give me a warning, write a fix it ticket, or waste a lot of my time with questions and try to come up with a reason for a search. I was just real nice to the guy and I got a warning.

If I got jacked up on youtube vidoes and went "am I being detained" he would probably have thought that I had a reason to think I should be detained. It would have gone downhill from there. Even worse if I had a warrant or a bag of pot or anything else in the car.

I'm just saying to be smart about it, if you act defensive you may activate their sense that you are a target.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

Money and Freedom

I suppose if the worst you are facing is losing money to a traffic court, then by all means, chat away if you think it will help. Refusing to consent and refusing to speak are in themselves not reasonable suspicion of anything, even when taking several other suspicious circumstances into consideration. The cop could do everything you just said, but any lawyer worth their salt will get the subsequent search quashed as evidence and the charges dropped. There is plenty of case law out there where a guy had an entire brick of cocaine hidden in his vehicle to get it tossed out because the lawyer was able to make the search unlawful.

Your example only illustrates the fear that the average person has of the police. You have a Fifth Amendment right to not speak yet you are willing to forgo that right for fear of greater consequences and yet you probably consider yourself a free man. I, on the other hand, know that a search based on my refusal to speak to a cop will be held inadmissable in court. I think you fear that you will get a citation for the headlight when outright cooperation might just get you a free pass. That's not the way I think. I'm fine with letting them write the ticket because I'm not going to court anyway if what I did isn't a crime against a person or their property. That's why I was arrested for Failure-To-Appear and have a Failure-To-Pay oustanding right now. I will spend a day or two in jail before I give them one damn dime so I'm not worried about the cop writing me a ticket for being uncooperative.

When you're no longer afraid, then you are free.

________________________________________

we're not too far apart

and hey, if you can deal with the career and personal fall out from an arrest, more power to you. Not all of us can. I've been arrested myself, probably it wouldn't have happened if I followed my own advice here...got the charges dropped but still I speak from some experience after a night in the greybar motel. I don't advocate reacting out of fear, just treat them like regular people. I'm not going to let them pull me out of my day, away from my responsibilities, just so I can play constitutional martyr theatre.

If you are going to be arrested if they search your vehicle, of course you don't consent. And of course that is the right thing to do. Don't be so sure your version of events will be the one that prevails in court, though. I imagine in the real world, Miranda warnings are rarely given (I didn't get one) and in the courtroom world, police never admit to making mistakes. So, as to whether or not you consented, that will at best be "he said, she said" and your odds might be worse if they can come up with a good justification for a search after the fact, or perhaps if you get a "tough on crime" judge looking to make a name.

If you act like you're not scared but are cooperative, that does wonders int he real world. I totally respect making an issue of it, if you can handle the fall out, and have no issue with anyone who does. I've done it myself.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

Apples and oranges

The people who are using the technique you despise are in situations vastly different than getting pulled over for no headlight.

"It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere".
--Voltaire

It's hard not to be a menace to society when half the population is happy on their knees. - unknown

Wall of text crits for 10k damage.

But I still read it all. Your first mistake was saying anything other than, "am I under arrest," "am I being detained," or "am I free to go."

They issued you a BS citation for "paraphernalia" to justify the ~2 hours they spent on you to their superiors. They're hoping you're too lazy to fight it, so give them a surprise. Either read up on the laws yourself or talk to a lawyer (despite what some say, lawyers are not a collective entity; they're all different, and some will help you and some won't), and don't wait around.

Simple Facts and Plain Arguments
A common sense take on politics and current events.

www.simplefactsplainarguments.com

Nice D&D reference. schweet.

Nice D&D reference. schweet.

Thanks...

...

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they attack you, then you win!"
GANDHI

"The belief is worthless if the fear of social and physical punishment overrides the belief."

a little bit of knowledge is dangerous

and paralegals, internet legal gurus, and idiots like you have a little bit of knowledge, at most.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

Not altogether true.

A JAG lawyer helped me beat the US Navy in a dispute over my tour extension. Most recently, a lawyer explained to me how YouTube got away with posting ads in front of my videos without notifying or compensating me. Most of us pay the income tax because of an International Treaty. Unless you are planning the years it takes to go to law school, don't waste your time trying to fight these small things without help. Even if you don't have a case, Magistrate Courts frequently create new law. My last bit of legal advice cost me $35 and was worth every penny, as I know have an attorney I trust to help me draft and negotiate an "intellectual property rights" contract if I ever sell my writing to a film producer.

Go to JustAnswer.com and request online legal advice.

You will know in advance what you have to pay and, if you agree, you will receive a refund if you are not satisfied with the answer.

Police officers who commit illegal acts even in "the performance of their duties" can be sued in Magistrate ("small claim") court (up to $15,000 in most states).

Nearly 65 years of experience have proven to me it is NEVER wrong to fight back; though, sometimes, you have to bide your time.

not knowing your rights is dangerous

you should have never offered your dl/id when you weren't even driving and without being accused of a crime. some states do require you to verbally id yourself even when walking. also you left your door open and answered too many questions. you are too nice and too trusting of people with shiny tin badges wearing fake Halloween costumes. the police employees are not your friend and should never be treated as such. they are predators employed by the state and should be treated accordingly.

the whole story sounds fishy though. in your area the 2001 yellow chevy step-side with 20's screams "amateur/low level mexican drug dealer". stop trying to feed 4000 people in mexico and pawn your junk so you can afford a new non yellow/bright red truck and a good lawyer. for the latter i recommend Saul Goodman, tell him i sent you ;)

Official Daily Paul BTC address: 16oZXSGAcDrSbZeBnSu84w5UWwbLtZsBms
#standwithrand

okay wow

The quick answer is one you'll probably not like, but I as an attorney would do exactly this: hire a criminal lawyer to handle this. Explain everything. Find someone who is willing to do the necessary motion work to challenge the stop, the search, and the charges. Not all criminal lawyers are that diligent, so choose well.

I would never recommend that you handle it yourself.

I guess there are limited situations where some kind of motion to dismiss the complaint or demurrer might be applicable in a criminal setting, but this doesn't sound like one of them. Your best defense is to challenge the contact, first of all, and most importantly, the validity of the search.

What I kept wondering as I read your text is that there had to be some reason they stopped and apprehended you. What is that? Is there anything distinguishing about your vehicle or you that would lead them to do that? I am not saying it is right, but it might explain what happened. E.g., if you look like a rastafarian and have a bob marley mural painted on the side of your van.

I had a friend who was a doctor, who had an old VW camper van with surf stickers all over it. He would get pulled over constantly and the police were always dumbfounded when they found out they pulled over a doctor in scrubs.

Also - DON'T fall into the trap of saying you will not fight it and that it's just a ticket and some fingerprints and just pay the thing. No way. It is a drug paraphenalia offense and that could seriously affect you in the future. Best to hire a diplomatic lawyer who can hopefully get the whole thing dismissed due to its absurdity, without even having to go through the motion work.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

If having large amounts of cash

is illegal the cops should go to the banks and arrest everyone behind the counter.

That said the first time they take money from someone dropping the tithe offering from the local church at the local bank it will get interesting.

You should watch

You should watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDJrQBwJpqk

We all share this eternally evolving present moment- The past and future only exist as inconsequential mental fabrications.

Is your "enter" key broken?

Please reformat this into something resembling paragraphs and I may return to read it.

“With laws shall our land be built up, but with lawlessness laid waste.”
-Njal Thorgeirsson

It would have been far more simple...

to just pull your weapon and shoot this asshole through the leg, get in your truck and drive away. At what point do WE stop being victims?!?

------------------
BC
Silence isn't always golden....sometimes it's yellow.

"The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them." - Patrick Henry