22 votes

When asked if vehicle can be searched - when no crime has taken place - you say NO and the officer

starts shining flashlight in vehicle, folds down driver's seat and see's my purse and ask to go through it and I say, "No, that is my private property". I had already given the officer my driver's license while we were both standing at the bumper of my nice 2001 Chevy stepside, bright yellow truck with 22" chrome rims. I was on private property and after cleaning my sheds out in my back yard went on the look for some cardboard boxes to put stuff I was going to donate to the needy in Mexico. I drove into the parking lot of "Walgreens" and parked my truck, turned off engine and got out and walked to area that contains their discards - I opened the enclosed gate and saw there was a bar across the top of their bin so, I closed gate and was walking back to my vehicle. Half way to my truck a vehicle approached with lights off. I stopped and turned to see a police car had pulled in about 3 car lengths away from where my truck was parked. I gave a friendly wave and approached the cop car and then greeted the officer with, "hi, officer - how are you doing tonight? I guess you want ID - It is in my truck, I will get it for you" He said, "okay". I went to my truck - got my DL and returned and by this time he was out of his vehicle and half way between his car and where my truck was parked. I handed him my DL and we began talking. He asked what I was doing and I explained I stopped to see if I could find some boxes to pack things I was donating to the needy in Mexico. I explained to him that I help my Dad, who owns property in Rocky Point, Mexico (4 hrs. from Phx.) hand out donated items to the poor people on a regular basis. I told him my dad had been doing this for close to 40 years now and that we also feed sometimes close to 4,000 hungry people down there and also feed the dogs that are starving. I am sitting on my bumper at this point. I told him that I saw there was a bar across where any boxes would be - so, I was going to go look at the recycle bin across the street. He ran my DL and then asked if I had any outstanding warrants, unpaid fines, or any thing else against my license. I told him, "no" ----- everything is fine with my license. He then asked, "Do you have any weapons and is anyone else in your truck?" I said, "no, I only live a few blocks from here - was getting boxes and returning home". He then walks to the driver's door which was open as I follow him, I ask, "I forgot to give you my registration and proof of Insurance - do you need that too? He said, "No" and started shining his light all around my truck's interior. I then said, "so, I can go now?" He then says, "you mind if I search your truck?" and I said, "for what reason, I haven't done anything?" - mind you - he keeps shining his light under seats and then says - "you've been stopped before" - I said, "yes for a light out on my license plate and as far as searching my vehicle - no, there is no reason - I pose no threat " - Then he starts asking, "why you so nervous?" I said, "nervous, I'm not nervous" He said, "you seem nervous now and that makes me suspicious" I said, "If I seem nervous now it is because you are trying to make up reasons to give you a reason to search my property after I told you no - and yes, that does make me nervous that you are respecting my right to say no" Next thing he does is radio's another officer to bring in the 'dog'. I said why are you doing that - I haven't done anything. Before the dog arrives he says wait in front of his police car and I sat on the bumper. He goes to my truck and comes back with a broken piece of glass and says is there anything else in your truck? I said I don't even know what that is. Then, says I will test it - I said you are going to have to, then we will both know. The officer with the dog arrives and ask me, "before I put the dog on your vehicle is there anything else you would like to tell me you have in there, because if there are large sums of money or drugs in your truck - he will find it and then we can take your truck". I again told both officers, "there is nothing in my truck". The officer gives me a threatening look and takes the dog all over my truck 2 or 3 times, puts dog in car and comes back and says, "do you have drugs on the inside panel of the driver's door - I got a hit (or some word he used implying the dog was excited over what was in the door). I told him, "there is nothing in my door or in my truck". He said, " I'll rip that whole door panel off if I have too". I said, "why do you want to tear up my truck, it is all I have to get to work and please don't destroy it - there is nothing in there". He sighed and went and got tools out of his car and headed to my truck. I said, "please be gentle with taking it off and would you please put it back on when you are done, because I don't know how to put it back together if you take it apart". He finishes (he was inside my truck for appx 1 hour and finds nothing. He goes over to the other officer who has been inside the drivers side of his car watching me through his window as the dog and officer destroy my car and whispers for about 5 minutes to him. I asked the officer if he was kind enough to put my door panel back on and he said, "yes, but there were two cracks at the bottom part of it to begin with" - There were no cracks on my door panels before all this happened. He leaves and I wait for another 30 or 40 min. I finally asked the officer, "is this going to be much longer - I am tired, I have to work early tomorrow and I just want to go home so I can get some sleep before work" . He then tells me he is issuing a citation to me. I asked, "for what?" He then tells me to sign the citation for possession of drug paraphernalia and that if I don't show up for court as shown that a warrant for my arrest will be issued. I said, "you are giving me a ticket for that broken thing you brought over before the dog got here?" I said, " I have to sign this?" he said, "yes" and then he hand me another thing to sign that said, " fingerprint notice" and told me that I had to show up one week before my court date and if I didn't I would be charged with failure to obey and interfering with a police officer per Town of Gilbert Municipal Order 42-179. I looked up that code online and it says it is unlawful to hinder, obstruct or delay any police officer in the line of performing his duties as provided in section 2-314. I look up section 2-314 and find that code had been repealed. Is it legal to have to submit to fingerprints before going to court to find the charges against me. Isn't that implying guilt before even going before the court. I also wonder if the officer why they searched my truck? If he had probable cause or was in danger why didn't he search me and why before I said no to the search and was talking to him casually at the back of my truck did he not tell me he thought I was nervous. Why was I not arrested or read my Miranda rights when they were asking questions and why when I said, "no" did he keep on searching without a warrant? Can I file a demurrer because I felt coheres and under duress having to sign these. I could use some help in where to start to have my rights protected and have this act of police government that is threatening my rights and freedom taken from me if I don't do something to stand up for this inconsideration of our protection by the constitution. The Arizona constitution even says they can't do these things but, I am afraid if I point out these injustices - I will end up in prison or made to pay for what was wronged by them. Please help, anyone.

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I wouldn't do this...

for the same reason I don't think we should go to Syria. Violence + violence = more violence. Obviously there is more to it than that, but it's usually where I begin when I talk to people about it. That said, Resistance is where it's at!

"What light is to the eyes - what air is to the lungs - what love is to the heart, liberty is to the soul of man."
-Robert Green Ingersoll

I'll answer your questions

"I also wonder if the officer why they searched my truck?"
--Because they were looking for illegal activity to justify their salary aka "doing their job" as in "I'm just doing my job". Doing evil and getting paid for it is doubly evil.

"If he had probable cause or was in danger why didn't he search me and why before I said no to the search and was talking to him casually at the back of my truck did he not tell me he thought I was nervous."
--He didn't have probable cause initially, but it sounds like he manufactured reasonable suspicion throughout the course of your conversation. Which would lead me to my point of avoiding these people whenever possible and only saying things that invoke laws which protect you.

"Why was I not arrested or read my Miranda rights when they were asking questions and why when I said, "no" did he keep on searching without a warrant?"
--Because you weren't under arrest and two men are allowed to ask each other questions. That doesn't mean you have to answer them.
--Because he manufactured reasonable suspicion which gave him permission to keep messing with you.

"Can I file a demurrer because I felt coheres and under duress having to sign these."
--I'm guessing you signed some kind of promise to appear which means you didn't have to sign them, you could have allowed them to finish arrest and been taken before a judge.

"I could use some help in where to start to have my rights protected and have this act of police government that is threatening my rights and freedom taken from me if I don't do something to stand up for this inconsideration of our protection by the constitution."
--At this moment, I don't know...but in the future: you start protecting your rights by avoiding contact with the state. If THEY initiate contact with you, only say those things which invoke protective law. "That's private and I wish to remain silent, I don't consent to searches, I would like to go on my way now am I free to go? Get me an attorney, etc"
--We have an adversarial system of law. The police and the state are your adversaries. It is not a good idea to talk to your adversary and you cannot be forced to talk to your adversary.


When the police car came into the lot & parked 3 spaces away why did you approach him? Since you did nothing wrong you simply get in your truck and drive away. Would he follow & stop you? Who knows.

Most any officer will think it suspicious if you approach them first and volunteer your info.

That said, you were obviously set up and should never have signed anything.

Your first mistake was being nice to the cop

By offering to make his job easier (offering your DL, etc.) To a preditor this is easy game. Remember, these criminals are not your friend.

"It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere".

It's hard not to be a menace to society when half the population is happy on their knees. - unknown


Not only are they not your friend, legally they are your adversary.

absolutely correct

Are there any peace officers left?
(it's predAtor, reading Mr. Granger is having its effect on me lately)

"It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere".

It's hard not to be a menace to society when half the population is happy on their knees. - unknown

That's Ms. Granger

And only a male sexist pig would make remarks about her blonde hair explaining everything. :)

Recommended reading: The Most Dangerous Superstition by Larken Rose

Contact Sheriff Mack......

...who lives near there.


Ask for help and ask him to talk with Gilbert Police Chief and corresponding Police Association.

He and other Sheriffs/Police nationwide are standing up for people's rights, including guns, and yet they are barely getting the support they need from the public.

In the meantime these officers are losing their jobs for keeping their 'Oaths of Office' and politicians are taking away the powers of the Sheriff - the only 'elected by the people' law enforcement.

And as of this post, none of the DP readers have even bothered to vote up that thread....and I'm wondering why?

If people don't support the good guys, in this case the CSPOA.org, then they're just helping the bad guys and should not complain.

[That was not directed at you. Good Luck fighting that. Please be sure to speak with the Gilbert Police Chief yourself, and phone the Mayor and your council person as well. You may be surprised how fast they drop it all when you make a big fuss; especially when it makes the newspapers.

Sorry about your truck. I'd be very upset. Call the city for a claim form for the damages including cleaning from the dog, which I would need. People need to always lock their doors. :( And I guess never be nice to LEOs? :( I'm surprised you offered. Sending prayers and well-wishes.]

Also contact Consitutional Attorney Mark Victor

visit freedomsphoenix.com ..... I think they will have contact info for Mark Victor. I don't know if we will "give free advice" but he might.

or just google "Mark Victor phoenix" or other keywords.

And never be nice to cops. Pigs in Gilbert and Chandler and all over are just that. Pigs. It does you no good to be nice to them.

I would like

to have a clear sticker attached to my window by the driver's door lock (where the cop stands when gathering your information) that says:

    Attention Enforcement Officers - In All Official Confrontations

The driver of this vehicle does not consent to any searches or property seizures and maintains full 5th Amendment rights under the Constitution to withhold any testimony prior to unbiased legal presence. Credible probable cause or an oath affirmed warrant to search this vehicle will be immediately contested in court.

Or something similar. I leave it up to other readers to refine the verbage. I would just like to see this on thousands of cars across the country. I bet then people would say it more often to the cops.

That reminds me of the door

That reminds me of the door mat they sell on Amazon that says "come back with a warrant" there is even a review on there from a guy who said the doormat figured in his trial when the police threw his doormat under the porch and proceeded to violate his 4th. His lawyer brought that up in court to his advantage.

Dude, thats an awesome

Dude, thats an awesome idea... I wouldnt mind working on this project if anybody is interested.

So you never really say

did you have the drug paraphernalia they cited you for? If not, why did you sign the citation? At this point its a he said she said but they have a signed confession by you.

To me your whole story sounds fishy and frankly, you were trespassing inside of Walgreen's closed gate and that probably gives the officers every right to investigate what you were doing there.

Now if you were at home or just on the road minding your own business that would be a different story.

Agreed. Also...

People need to understand the world we live in. He should never have volunteered so much information and been so "nice" to the cop. I'm sure the cop smelled fish as soon as he felt he was being buttered up. He should not have been there at night when if he went in the day time the store would generally give him all the boxes he needed.

In this world you need to learn not to put yourself in these situations in the first place.

I believe the "he" is a

I believe the "he" is a "she". :-0

I disagree

The incentives that lead to this scenario (drug war, asset forfeiture, raises or promotions based on the amount of tickets or arrests made, etc.) need to be changed. Our grandfathers would never have stood for being harassed over looking for some discarded boxes in a dumpster at night. Our founders carried around guns, smoked pot, and drank alcohol before driving buggies routinely and would be wholly ashamed at the timid and shameful populace we have become. The spying on everyone by the NSA would have gotten the federal government repealed and the spies would have been put in state prisons for a good long spell. The police would then be told to do their job including stopping terrorists without infringing on the rights of American citizens. And any cop that said that it was impossible to do so would be fired and mandated to serve as crossing guards near schools as their gross incompetence and stupidity would be lacking for any greater responsibility. Any cop that threatened that there would be terrorist attacks without them disobeying the constitution would be put in charge of meat inspections because their knee-jerk fear of something that kills less people than lightning strikes should be useful in seeing salmonella on a chicken but little else. And when you are doing all the other things suggested in this thread to avoid any further legal consequences, be sure to file a complaint and/or sue if your attorney gives you a good chance of winning in court. "Life is either a daring adventure or nothing.” — Helen Keller

You are talking about the world we would like to live in.

I am talking about the world we DO live in. And there is no good reason to put yourself in this situation in the real world. We cannot change things by making ourselves victims. Wouldn't you say?

Unbleievable or..not

What is this world coming too...

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they attack you, then you win!"

"The belief is worthless if the fear of social and physical punishment overrides the belief."

Citation? No you

We're arrested and released on site. Or 'Cited. Because you were actually arrested you need to go down and surrender a set of prints.

This officer is the standard piece of lying chit that passes for a n officer of the law in America today.

Always close and lock your door, when exiting, I hope that you realize by being friendly and talking you gained nothing and only risked making your situation worse.

Fight it - a good chance the DA may drop a weak case like this but unfortunately you have been arrested for a misdemeanor.

good luck and sorry this happened,to you.


Liberty = Responsibility


Would make me much more inclined to read closer :/

But from skimming it, sounds like a crappy situation.

I didn't see if you got their badge info or not. I hope you did.

Sorry you had to go through this. Hopefully you can see some justice.

I didnt read every word

I didnt read every word because the use of paragraphs would help the story flow.

I'd imagine that whole thing

I'd imagine that whole thing will be thrown out. I wish there was more we could do to compensate victims of these illegal searches. The officer was using the broken piece of glass as an excuse to bring in the dog (they need reasonable suspicion, that's also why he asked you about being nervous). If you have the means go talk to a criminal defense attorney, they deal with this crap every day. Otherwise the paraphernalia charge is probably a couple hundred dollar fine and they might try to get you to take some drug classes. Fight them fight them fight them. The cop had to write the ticket to cover his own ass for the illegal search. This should be easy to have thrown out.

- Grow Mushrooms at Home


This is why you video record any encounters with police officers. If they start questioning or asking to search your vehicle you tell them I don't answer questions or agree to searches without my lawyer present.

Ron Paul - Intellectual hero