11 votes

MAMAF - Million American March Against Fear

I am confused and maybe someone could help me with the several questions I have about all the opposition to this event. It is being opposed by Christians, Jews, Catholics, Republicans, Patriots, Bikers and a whole slew of other organizations.

After reading some of the reasons they are marching and some of the organizations joining this event I am having trouble seeing the evil or wrong in it? It seems to be based on the things most all of us have been asking for years and have been fighting for ourselves.

Truth concerning 9-11, Justice, Civil Liberties, Ending the war on Terror, Drones, Transparency of Government, Imperialism, Agenda of Fear, Policy of Peace, and Etc. Is it just because of the event date? Should an event date for truth about 9-11 actually not be on 9-11? Is it just because they are Muslims? Do they not have a right to hate the same things we hate about current affairs? Are all these organizations Lying about their true issues?

Could some of you please find the time to enlighten me about how wrong this event truly is? Here is the statement from their site, Please note the organizations and issues discussed:

AMPAC National News: Washington DC, Feb 2013

Brothers and Sisters In The Struggle For Peace and Justice,

On September 11th, will you stand in peace with us?

Event: MAMAF - Million American March Against Fear on 9/11/13

AMPAC - The American Muslim Political Action Committee AMPAC in cooperation and solidarity with MANDAA - Movement Against the National Defense Authorization Act, NDPAAC - National Democratic Party Asian American Caucus, NYDPAAC - New York Democratic Party Asian American Caucus, NABAB - North American Bangladeshi Association for Bangladesh, MDPAAC - Missouri Democratic Party Asian American Caucus, CLA - Community Leadership Affairs, SACC - South Asian Chamber of Commerce, Mosque Care, DC Area 9/11 Truth Movement ,A&E - Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth Movement, MMAT - Muslim Marching Against Terrorism, MD Rabbi Alam - the Founder of AMPAC, Richard Gage - the Founder of Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth Movement, Dr. Kevin Barrett - the National Spokesperson for Muslim Think Tank, and The March Against Drones (MAD) will be gathering on the National Mall, and then launching a march on the halls of power.

We invite you to stand with and join us to Rally Against Fear at 12 noon on The National Mall, then the Congress, the Supreme Court, and the White House, to hold truth to power at the three major branches of American government.

We ask all individuals and organizations working for peace to attend this collective action to tell our Government leaders we want transparency and policies of peace. In the past 12 years since 9/11 the United States government as failed to protect and promote Constitutional liberties and human life, here and abroad. We feel that accountability in government has been ignored and the time has arrived to collectively speak truth to power.

Speaking will be experts and individuals on the lack of transparency and questions plaguing 9/11, steady erosion of domestic civil liberties, drone policy and the very dire effect of these on of plight of American Muslims here at home, and Muslim communities globally in the scope of U.S. imperialism, and the modern face of resistance to unmanned aerial surveillance and warfare.

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Thanks for bumping this

I think at some point we need to look at each other and ask are we really different enough to kill each other? All sides are wrong in this aspect.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

most of the Caucasians/Christians . . .

I know are terrified of Islam. *They* will always say that they know individual Muslims who are good people, but they think that Islam is trying to take over America, and they believe that Obama is a Muslim--

I have never understood this.

I don't think anyone is trying to take over America except--

well, maybe Monsanto--

and some 'too big to fail' banks--

but I'm not even sure of that--

I think that there are a lot of evil groups--

and none is dominated by any particular religious group--

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

I won't say they are right or wrong.

And not really arguing with you. I don't know anyone who is "terrified" of Islam. I have Muslim friends. But, I don't want to live under Sharia law or risk inadvertently straying into a Sharia zone.

There are parts of Europe that are already Sharia law zones, with campaigns promoting expansion.
Sharia Law Spreads In Europe

If you Google Sharia Law in the U.S., most of the articles that you find will be those that claim that Sharia law is no threat to the U.S. and decry "anti-Sharia" movements, as paranoid, bigoted, and racist.

"Why would they want to recreate the system that they fled?" <--Ignores the fact that this is EXACTLY what they are trying to do in Europe.

You will find (other than in alternative media) very few articles addressing (real) pro-Sharia movement.

waves hand-- nothing to see here

Correct me if I'm wrong

but doesn't Sharia Law only apply to Muslims?

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According to the article that I linked it does not

According to the article that I linked, although it may being that way (I have read of areas governed by dual systems), it does not necessarily apply only to Muslims.

In Austria, the government is convicting even non-Muslims of violating Sharia law. In 2011, Vienna High Court upheld the lower court conviction of Elisabeth Sabaditsch-Wolff for making this factual statement about Muhammad:

"We all know that Muhammad married Aisha when she was 6 years old and consummated the marriage when she was 9. Now, what do we call this behavior if not pedophilia."

disclaimer: I'm only citing this article as an example, not endorsing it. If you question it's accuracy, please double-check.

It does, but as in Britain and Europe

Sharia law often comes up against "our" laws. The removing of a veil when being a witness in court, having a drivers license photo taken and even driving with a veil. Honor killing and maimings are seen as "acceptable" in Sharia Law, but not "ours", so it all gets really murky.

thanks Jill, +1

Yeah, that's kind of what ATP was touching on, and I agree...but at the same time, 'our' laws are often unjust and generalized, so I guess I don't see much of a difference between the two in that respect. Personally I wouldn't want to get caught up in either system.

It's one area that I have trouble with-- is the law one area where a monopoly is acceptable? I honestly just keep going in circles trying to figure out which way is the 'best' way.

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I'm way out of my depth here.

Although, to me, it is entirely sensible to have a code of ethics to live by, to protect and serve the needs of the majority of people.
Does that make it a monopoly?
Or do corrupt self serving Judiciary exploit law to make it their private monopoly for the benefit of a select few?

Majority? Hmm

What of the minority? Should laws be passed, or punishments doled out via mob rule/enforcers of mob rule?

"Or do corrupt self serving Judiciary exploit law to make it their private monopoly for the benefit of a select few?"

This is an excellent point, but one that works both ways. A monopolized legal system, which in theory serves all, in practice serves few, is a chicken/egg situation in my view. If a system attracts corrupt people, then does that make the system itself corrupt? Or are both merely flawed and exploitable, as people and their creations tend to be?

See why I go in circles over this? ;)

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Circles are the only place you can go over this one!

In a perfect world, we would all behave, do the right thing and live in good faith with our Honest and Just fellow men.
But laws bring power to those who make them and those who enforce them, and power brings corruption...and so we go around again.

which is why

politics often feels hopeless to me. Sure, just about any political theory looks good on paper, but once human action is introduced, it all goes down the toilet in short order.

But hey, what can you (the general 'you') do? Besides grabbing some popcorn and watching the show, occasionally providing commentary, not much. After all, change starts with the individual; none of us can save the world, only our little slices of it.

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I think the thought is...

I think the thought is that if we went to their Country we could not practice our justice system so in turn it is felt they should have to endure our justice system like all other citizens. This is one I actually agree with. If you want to come here and live then you should accept all that goes with it and receive no special treatment over all other citizens. Can you imagine what a mess it would be if every faith had to be treated differently in court? Although? then maybe all judges would just quit because it was too much work?

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

understandable

but couldn't it be argued that Muslims wanting to live under Sharia Law falls under freedom of religion, so long as non-Muslims aren't forced into it?

As for your last part, that's just it; I'm not a big fan of our current court system, so maybe that's why I don't see much issue with Muslims who want to live under Sharia Law...provided that's it's not forced upon those who don't willingly participate. But yeah, it's a pretty tricky/messy subject, at least for me.

Thanks for the response, ATP.

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If it were this simple I would say yes

That would be cool for them. But it sets a president for ALL other faiths to do the same. Every one of thousands of sects of hundreds of different faiths would jump on the bandwagon and create their very own "Laws" the courts would have to follow. If we have to endure a failed justice system it should at least be standard and the same for all citizens as equals. I think the Constitution speaks of this as far as "laws" go.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

reply

At the same time, I think I'd rather have competing legal systems than just one, since monopolies invite and breed corruption, but again I see your point. Like I say, I go in circles with this subject, and use it as a thought excessive more than anything else.

If a monopolized legal system strictly adhered to the Constitution, I'd have little issue with it. But then again, there are amendments that could (should?) be abolished, and that wouldn't exactly be straightforward either.

+1 for helping me think this out.

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well...We kinda do have competing legal systems.

We kinda do have competing legal systems.
They're called nations and if you like the way one works, supposedly you can stay there rather than go to someone else's, where things are different, and try to change them.
Kinda like how our State's are supposed to work, too, except NOW the federal government has an idea that they get to dictate EVERYTHING.

That's kind of what I'm getting at

Ideally, I'd like to see a heavier emphasis on localized legal systems, because it's a hell of a lot easier to 'vote with your feet' than leaving the country, which for most people is prohibitively expensive.

But that won't happen unless/until the feds loosen their iron grip on individual states, and I figure one way to do that is to not buy into their monopolized 'just us' system. They sure as hell aren't going to do it willingly.

Or just opt out of all 'systems' entirely...but unfortunately I don't think most Americans are quite ready for that. Yet.

(Also, I meant 'exercise' rather than 'excessive' in my above post. Stupid auto-correct ;/)

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ha!

I like the "opt out" option.

It's a collectivist

collective event.

How come no "Caucasians for Whatever"?

There already is a "Caucasians for whatever" group

It's called the Republican party. BAH DUM PSSH

...I'll show myself out now.

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Because Caucasian identity groups are racist

Because Caucasian identity groups are racistsupremacistnaziswhowanttokillsixmillionjews.
If they were allowed, who would everyone sit around and blame for their lack of security and prosperity in America?
Our government and elements of our society of been very successful of creating a xenophobic nature toward Caucasians.
Its also easy to despise something you don't understand or that is different from yourself. The current targeted group is Caucasians,
specifically normal caucasian males.
Unfortunately in the United States the fuel of hatred toward Caucasian identity groups is very large.

I noticed that too but...

Could it be possible they were welcome but decided to have have a Caucasian counter march instead?

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

my concerns are mainly

centered on the convenience stores that will be closed nationwide during this dothead flaunting fiasco ala d c
no gas no smokes no sodypop - dam !

Our government and elements

Our government and elements of our society of been very successful of creating a xenophobic nature toward muslims. Obviously 9/11 doesn't help this situation as most people don't think about cause and effect they only see an effect they don't like.

Its also easy to despise something you don't understand or that is different from yourself. The current demaguaged group is Hispanics and Muslims. Prior to that it was blacks and Asians, and before that Italians and Catholics etc.

Unfortunately in the United States the fuel of hatred toward these groups is very large. And unfortunately its these very problems that allows the government to keep the flames of wars they wish raging on.

Thank you, I was wondering that too

Would we be wanting to hate and destroy all Buddhist Asians if it had been a few Buddhist extremists from North Korea that were the ones involved with 9-11? I now see this as a real possibility.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

The Anti Arab-Anti Muslim false accusation began with OPEC

Way back in 1972 or so.

They spent a lot of money generating enough hate.

There weren't even any Airliners in NYC on September 11, 2001.

They put on quite a "reality" show to get us to vote them off the island.

President Grant secretly sent Custer to massacre the First Nations back in the day. The only news that was reported was the atrocities of the 'redskins', while white men were pure as the driven snow. But it was a lie.

Free includes debt-free!

Truth man

I was tring to find a list of all the false flags since Custer. Nope going to have to compile one myself I guess. Well I have to head off to bed my friend, Thank you and please have a great evening Paul!

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

I don't know about hate

I know that for myself, 11 September is a day for introspection.

911 was a real bummer, and then, in a way I got lucky when I came across, "The Damnest Finest Ruins", a documentary about "The San Francisco" Earthquake 1906, and by comparison, 911 was much smaller, but was a simular in many ways. It helped put into perspective the meaning of 911 for me, which is the controlled demolation of one society for another.

For all the 911 Truth, there has been no justice because the prisoners under arrest for association with 911 want Sharia Law, which the US doesn't have, though it is being challenged in 32 states. Many people don't want it. Many Palestinians use the Israeli courts for justice because Sharia Law is unjust for some people in our transitional socieity.

Being the US is transitioning from a constitutional government to a global government, it could be Sharia Courts are part of America's future, and not everyone in America is ready for that, so going to an event by any name on 911 that does not rally people to America, but protests and shows any sign of doubt, mistrust, lack of faith, in government.. during the conflict in Syria.. it sends a message that America is not recovering from 911, but ripe for more deconstruction.

I wonder if Obama will give a shout out to the millions of Muslims who hate America enough to march on 9/11 a day of mourning?