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James Madison - Federalist #46 - Required 25 to 1 Power Ratio Citizen Militia Superiority Over US Military (Standing Army)

Federalist #46: James Madison - Complete Quote Text ( http://www.constitution.org/fed/federa46.htm ):

James Madison: "...The only refuge left for those who prophesy the downfall of the State governments is the visionary supposition that the federal government may previously accumulate a military force for the projects of ambition. The reasonings contained in these papers must have been employed to little purpose indeed, if it could be necessary now to disprove the reality of this danger. That the people and the States should, for a sufficient period of time, elect an uninterrupted succession of men ready to betray both;

that THE "TRAITORS" should, throughout this period, uniformly and systematically pursue some fixed plan for the extension of the military establishment;

that the governments and the people of the States should silently and patiently behold the gathering storm, and " continue to supply the materials", "until it should be prepared to burst on their own heads", must appear to every one more like the incoherent dreams of a delirious jealousy, or the misjudged exaggerations of a counterfeit zeal, than like the sober apprehensions of genuine patriotism. Extravagant as the supposition is, let it however be made. Let a regular army, fully equal to the resources of the country, be formed; and let it be entirely at the devotion of the federal government; still it would not be going too far to say, that the State governments, with the people on their side, would be able to repel the danger.

The highest number to which, according to the best computation, a standing army can be carried in any country, does not exceed one hundredth part of the whole number of souls; or one twenty-fifth part of the number able to bear arms. This proportion would not yield, in the United States, an army of more than twenty-five or thirty thousand men.

"TO THESE" (The United States Military) WOULD BE "OPPOSED" A (CITIZEN) "MILITIA" amounting to near half a million of "CITIZENS" with "ARMS IN THEIR HANDS", OFFICERED BY MEN CHOSEN FROM "AMONG THEMSELVES" (CHOSEN BY THE LOCAL CITIZEN'S - NOT MILITARY OR FEDERAL GOVERNMENT), fighting for their (THE CITIZEN'S) common liberties, and united and conducted by government"S" (LOCAL) possessing their (THE CITIZEN MILITIA'S) affections and confidence.

It may well be doubted, whether a (CITIZEN) MILITIA "thus circumstanced" (25 to 1 ARMED POWER RATIO) could ever be conquered by such a (SMALL) proportion of "regular troops" (i.e. federal US ARMY, NAVY, AIR FORCE, MARINES).

Those who are best acquainted with the last successful resistance of this country against the British arms, will be most inclined to deny the possibility of it.

Besides the advantage of (THE CITIZENS) being armed, which the Americans (CITIZENS) possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of "subordinate governments", to which the people are attached, and by which the (CITIZEN) MILITIA officers are appointed (officered by men chosen among themselves), forms a barrier against the "enterprises of ambition", more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of.

Notwithstanding the military establishments in the several kingdoms of Europe, which are carried as far as the public resources will bear, the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms. And it is not certain, that with this aid alone they would not be able to shake off their yokes.

But were the people to "possess" the additional advantages of "LOCAL" governments chosen by themselves, who could collect the national will and direct the national force, and of officers appointed out of the (CIVILIAN) militia, by these (LOCAL) governments, and attached both to them and to the (CITIZEN) MILITIA, it may be "affirmed with the greatest assurance", that the throne of "every tyranny in Europe" would be "speedily overturned" in spite of the legions which surround it.

Let us not insult the free and gallant citizens of America with the suspicion, that they would be less able to defend the rights of which they would be in "ACTUAL POSSESSION", than the "debased subjects of arbitrary power" would be to rescue theirs from the hands of their oppressors.

Let us rather no longer insult them with the supposition that they can ever reduce themselves to the necessity of making the experiment, by a blind and tame submission to the "long train of insidious measures which must precede and produce it"."

APP: This should alarm any US Citizen, as our present condition of Citizens NOT armed with a 25 to 1 superiority over our own standing army;

and the fact that our "Citizen Militias" officered by men "chosen among themselves" do NOT exist in any number near this in military capability or armament, is CLEAR EVIDENCE that the "long train of insidious measures which must precede and produce it" have "ALREADY OCCURRED".

Also read the Virginia Ratifying Convention 6-16-1788 for more on Citizen Militias and state powers that you may not know:

In Full: http://www.americanpatriotparty.cc/americanpatriotpartynewsl...

And the need for localized republics and representation for adequate representation: http://www.americanpatriotparty.cc/americanpatriotpartynewsl...

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Comment and vote up to keep the post in the public eye. Even to simply say Dito. These are important definitions to the meaning of the words, rights and general phrases to the Constitution. As well as, important limits to federal powers.

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George Washington - ALL PEOPLE To Manufacture MILITARY Supplies

"A free people (ALL FREE PEOPLE) ought not only to be armed, but disciplined; to which end, a uniform and well digested plan is requisite:

and their (ALL FREE PEOPLE) safety and interest require that they (ALL FREE PEOPLE) should PROMOTE SUCH MANUFACTORIES as tend to render them (ALL FREE PEOPLE) independent on (OF) others for ESSENTIAL, "PARTICULARLY FOR MILITARY SUPPLIES".

First Annual Message to Congress, January 8, 1790

RichardTaylorAPP - Chair - American Patriot Party.CC

John Locke #201, 202, 212 to 232; Virginia and Kentucky Resolutions 1798; Virginia Ratifying Convention 6-16-1788; Rights of the Colonists 1772.

Bumping this thread!

b u m p !

PEOPLE OPPOSING TYRANNY - Real Grass Roots!
Are you a POT or a PET - Person Embracing Tyranny?

Good Reading This Evening!

Measure of Thought...

RichardTaylorAPP - Chair - American Patriot Party.CC

John Locke #201, 202, 212 to 232; Virginia and Kentucky Resolutions 1798; Virginia Ratifying Convention 6-16-1788; Rights of the Colonists 1772.

George Washington - Beware of the Unjust Dominion

"However [political parties] may now and then answer popular ends, they are likely in the course of time and things, to become potent engines, by which cunning, ambitious, and unprincipled men will be enabled to subvert the power of the people and to usurp for themselves the reins of government, destroying afterwards the very engines which have lifted them to unjust dominion."

GEORGE WASHINGTON, Farewell Address, September 17, 1796

RichardTaylorAPP - Chair - American Patriot Party.CC

John Locke #201, 202, 212 to 232; Virginia and Kentucky Resolutions 1798; Virginia Ratifying Convention 6-16-1788; Rights of the Colonists 1772.

George Washington - Prepare Yourself

"There is nothing so likely to produce peace as to be well prepared to meet an enemy."

GEORGE WASHINGTON, letter to Elbridge Gerry, Jan. 29, 1780

RichardTaylorAPP - Chair - American Patriot Party.CC

John Locke #201, 202, 212 to 232; Virginia and Kentucky Resolutions 1798; Virginia Ratifying Convention 6-16-1788; Rights of the Colonists 1772.

George Washington - Contending for Liberty

George Washington:

"Let us therefore animate and encourage each other, and show the whole world that a Freeman, contending for liberty on his own ground, is superior to any slavish mercenary on earth."

General Orders, Headquarters, New York (2 July 1776).

RichardTaylorAPP - Chair - American Patriot Party.CC

John Locke #201, 202, 212 to 232; Virginia and Kentucky Resolutions 1798; Virginia Ratifying Convention 6-16-1788; Rights of the Colonists 1772.

Got Cannon? - Concealing Arms is an Inalienable Right.

Cannon; It's good for the Free body.

The Founders knew it;

So they buried them in their fields and hid them Until they were needed.

Did you know Concealing Arms from all governments in an inalienable RIGHT?

It is. The Founders Practiced it Regularly.

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RichardTaylorAPP - Chair - American Patriot Party.CC

John Locke #201, 202, 212 to 232; Virginia and Kentucky Resolutions 1798; Virginia Ratifying Convention 6-16-1788; Rights of the Colonists 1772.

.

.

Adequately Armed is a Common Law Right.

Unequal arming and disarming Citizens has always been against Common Law.

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English Bill of Rights - 1689:

In Full: http://www.americanpatriotparty.cc/1689_Bill_of_Rights/1689_...

Grievance #6.) By causing several good subjects being Protestants to be disarmed at the same time when papists were both armed and employed "contrary to law";

Rights #6.) That the subjects which are Protestants may have arms for their defence "SUITABLE TO THEIR CONDITIONS" and as allowed (to ALL) by law;

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RichardTaylorAPP - Chair - American Patriot Party.CC

John Locke #201, 202, 212 to 232; Virginia and Kentucky Resolutions 1798; Virginia Ratifying Convention 6-16-1788; Rights of the Colonists 1772.

Oh how I wish

people held polieticians accountable to the Constitution !

"Politics ought to be the part-time profession of every citizen who would protect the rights and privileges of free men."

Dwight D. Eisenhower

Notice James Madison's Definition of Treason.

Notice James Madison's Definition of Treason:

In Federalist #46:

James Madison calls all those extending the military to a greater extent than he defines here as TRAITORS; not patriots.

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The complete opposite is what is constantly being sold to us by the federal government, Military marketing campaign and media.

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RichardTaylorAPP - Chair - American Patriot Party.CC

John Locke #201, 202, 212 to 232; Virginia and Kentucky Resolutions 1798; Virginia Ratifying Convention 6-16-1788; Rights of the Colonists 1772.

Every willing, able-bodied

Every willing, able-bodied person with a gun is the militia.

No government necessary.

Simple Facts and Plain Arguments
A common sense take on politics and current events.

www.simplefactsplainarguments.com

Samuel Adams - Absolute Rights of the Colonists

Samuel Adams
Absolute Rights Of the Colonists 1772:

In Full: http://www.americanpatriotparty.cc/Rights_of_the_Colonists/r...

"...1st. Natural Rights of the Colonists as Men.--

Among the Natural Rights of the Colonists are these

First. a Right to Life;

Secondly to Liberty;

thirdly to Property;

together with the "Right to support and defend them" in the "BEST MANNER THEY CAN"

(APP: Do you see any limitation here? Clip size? Caliber? Cannon? I Do Not. Having adequate "MANNER" has no limits.)

--Those are EVIDENT Branches of, rather than deductions from the "DUTY" of "SELF PRESERVATION", commonly called "THE FIRST LAW OF NATURE"--"

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RichardTaylorAPP - Chair - American Patriot Party.CC

John Locke #201, 202, 212 to 232; Virginia and Kentucky Resolutions 1798; Virginia Ratifying Convention 6-16-1788; Rights of the Colonists 1772.

The Ramifications of this Definition of Powers Goes Further

The Ramifications of this Definition of Powers Goes Further.

When you understand the other limits set down upon the federal government by the Founders; and freedoms with regard to Citizen Militias importing arms themselves without restriction.

Marshall states clearly that state Citizen Militias (Citizens) can import arms "without" federal legislative approval as the federal government cannot interpose!

Virginia Ratifying Convention 6-16-1788 - In Full:

http://www.americanpatriotparty.cc/americanpatriotpartynewsl...

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John Marshall: "...Gentlemen have said that the states cannot defend themselves without an application to Congress, because "Congress" can interpose!

Does not "EVERY MAN" feel a "REFUTATION" of the argument in his own breast?

I will show{420} that there could "NOT" be a combination, between those (Founders) who formed the Constitution, to take away this power...." --

If Congress neglect our militia (citizens), "WE (THE CITIZENS THEMSELVES) CAN ARM THEM OURSELVES".

CANNOT Virginia "IMPORT ARMS? >>> CANNOT "she" (THE CITIZENS OF THE STATE) put them into the hands of "HER" (CITIZEN) MILITIA-MEN?..."

(i.e.: THEY / WE / THE CITIZENS THEMSELVES - "CAN" and with a 25 (Citizen) to 1 (Standing Army) - power ratio to oppose if necessary both foreign enemies or the standing US Military as James Madison clearly establishes as a REQUIREMENT in ANY COUNTRY - in Federalist #46)

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The federal government presently using the Commerce clause to restrict or interpose any arm, is clearly outside the delegated powers.

Read how the other Founders such as John Marshall intended and understood in fact what those limits of the federal government were:

Virginia Ratifying Convention 6-16-1788 - In Full:

http://www.americanpatriotparty.cc/americanpatriotpartynewsl...

RichardTaylorAPP - Chair - American Patriot Party.CC

John Locke #201, 202, 212 to 232; Virginia and Kentucky Resolutions 1798; Virginia Ratifying Convention 6-16-1788; Rights of the Colonists 1772.

Consider Also What makes Representation Work.

The Founders understood the need to have very local legislatures for adequate representation of communities and states.

The Founders Knew that "Distant Legislatures" can not give adequate representation.

Consider this issue and the founders thoughts discussed in greater length here:

http://www.americanpatriotparty.cc/americanpatriotpartynewsl...

The original 13 states were small; Most about the size of counties in the later states; Oregon became a state with about 40,000 to 80,000 people; Given that as a criteria, most counties would have more than adequate numbers to become "independent states" representing their "own areas", giving much more adequate representation; Because that would allow the creation of yet smaller counties within the smaller states.

This would greatly reduce the financial "grabbing" and Financial manipulation that most state capitols use to their advantage to sell out the counties and local communities within their present states to federal mandates and other corrupt unconstitutional "arrogated" federal powers;

Samuel Adams - Absolute Rights of the Colonists:

"....Can it be said with any colour of truth and Justice, that this Continent of "three thousand miles in length", and a breadth as yet unexplored, in which however, its supposed, there are five millions of people, has the least voice, vote or influence in the decisions of the British Parliament?

Have they, all together, any more right or power to return a single member to that house of commons, who have not inadvertently, but deliberately assumed a power to dispose of their lives,8 Liberties and properties, than to choose an Emperor of China!

Had the Colonists a right to return members to the british parliament, it would only be hurtfull;

as from their local situation and circumstances it is "impossible they should be ever truly and properly represented there".

The inhabitants of this country in all probability in a few years will be more numerous, than those of Great Britain and Ireland together;

yet it is absurdly expected [Volume 5, Page 397] by the promoters of the present measures, that these, with their posterity to all generations, should be easy while their property, shall be disposed of by a house of commons at "three thousand miles distant" from them;

and who "CANNOT" be supposed to have the least care or concern for their real interest:

Who have not only "NO" natural care for their interest, but must be in effect "bribed against it";

as every burden they lay on the colonists is so much saved or gained to themselves...."

In Full: http://www.americanpatriotparty.cc/Rights_of_the_Colonists/r...

Thank you for your comments and keeping this important comparison of powers viewable to more people.

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Virginia Ratifying Convention 6-16-1788 (more founders intent on MILITIA:

In Full: http://www.americanpatriotparty.cc/americanpatriotpartynewsl...

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RichardTaylorAPP - Chair - American Patriot Party.CC

John Locke #201, 202, 212 to 232; Virginia and Kentucky Resolutions 1798; Virginia Ratifying Convention 6-16-1788; Rights of the Colonists 1772.

get a majority precinct chairs

elect a county sheriff who will train all who want to be in the militia and maybe give them a break on their property taxes or choice of weapon.

R3ovlUTION charles walker 8322474577

militia

That has always been my idea. Each County should have an operating militia. You could pay dues to the county militia that would go to ammunition, supplies, and charity. The County Sheriff should lead these Militias. Retired military and police should be preferred selections for leading officers.

I really think there is a practical way to "regulate" militias..

"Regulate", meaning 'To make Regular'.

The idea would be to have local, state, citizen militias replace police departments and standing armies.

There is actually a very good debate about whether the current "organized militia" aka the Army National Guard and Air National Guard, are actually constitutional... Or if Congress has lived up to it's constitutional obligations to provide (funding) to states to make regular militias. That's because the Army NG & Air NG are actually used as reserve forces, and are deployed overseas. That is unconstitutional, and arguably means that Congress has not fulfilled it's obligations, as the Army NG & Air NG are really just reserve branches of the military, and are not citizen militias, as per the US constitution. That's another debate. And one that should be had.

But, I think practically speaking, local militias/neighborhood watches can work, and can effectively, efficiently replace the police system.

I'll start with education. My old high school in CT, not far from Sandy Hook, used to have a gun range in the basement, for the shooting team. They haven't had a shooting team in 30+ years. But they did. Kids should be taught in schools about firearms, and firearms safety. They should be taught basic EMT (emergency medical technician) practices. Instead of wasting time & tax dollars on multiple study halls and half the junk they waste time on in Phys. Ed., why not take that time to teach the kids these basic survival, self-defense and emergency response skills? Seriously, we used to play dodge-ball, and a silly game called 'speed-ball' in high school Phys. Ed. class. And while fun, non-professional kids games like that, for high schoolers, is a waste of time. We use the public education system we pay for, to teach kids how to become responsible, self-reliant citizens... I know, I know.

The way it work is, if you had an emergency, you'd pick up the phone and dial the Party-Line, which would alert the entire neighborhood. Most people would be trained and have varying levels of skill, but still have basic skills. Instead of minutes, neighbors can be there in seconds. This would also develop a greater sense of community. You'd still have hospitals, courts, and an elected Sheriff and his department to do the paperwork, for the courts. The public Library system can be used for individual basic forensics, like dusting for fingerprints, to gather evidence, to submit to the Sheriffs dept., to submit to the courts, to see if you have the evidence for the sheriff to deputize your small community militia, to arrest the perp. Only real victim crimes would actually be crimes, as the people themselves would be the enforcers of the law upon themselves.
Community centers could be used for the citizens to gather on weekends and practice their drills, discuss politics, eat & drink together, play sports, have fun, and be a community. The founding fathers also used beer and festivities as a way to attract people to participate in the militia. Every citizen would automatically be part of the militia. You would not be forced to do anything. It would simply be in your best interest.

I know this 'system' would not be perfect, and neither is what we have now, but the 'system' I described is what I believe the founders envisioned, and one that could work in today's modern age.

PEOPLE OPPOSING TYRANNY - Real Grass Roots!
Are you a POT or a PET - Person Embracing Tyranny?

This

Is another reason I like Israel.. the IDF is ingenious.. Most everyone has training, know's the drill.. they all go home to theie Mushavs and be their own police.. state has jobs like border patrol, F-16 pilots..

I started to see the IDF was one training, everyone is on the same page, everyone knows the drills.. and within this, there is freedom.. you know your neighborhood (mushav, and yes the city is different.. at least by my studies).. each mushav is it's own milita.. I think it's brilliant, and I think we need to learn from Israel.. Is Israel the world's police? No.

"...the IDF is ingenious."

Forced servitude is hardly ingenious. It is a very old concept with a long history.

I don't see it like that

A person is free to leave Israel.. so I don't see it as forced. You want to live in Israel then you become part of the security system.

I would have thought like you, until I took hunter saftey classes. Hunter safety gave me a completely different, and very real picture of terra, than even my survival training.

Now when I hike off trail, I always think hunter saftey terms before survival, and to me, hunter saftey is more than likley to save my life than survival training, because survival training is like a "you with nature working together", where hunter saftey is, "You are not alone and you better KNOW what the hell is going on around you RIGHT NOW".

And that's how it is for Israel.. a two year program that is challenging physically and mentally, bonding with people, learning how to defend yourself and work with others to protect yourself and your property.

With 1.2 million people seeking amnesty in Israel, seems a lot of people are willing to join the IDF.

Free to leave?

Free to leave but not always free to live permenently in another country. 18 year old kid, little money...has to leave his family...Israeli freedom....

I've seen you make posts about those 1.2 million leaving other places seeking asylum from neighboring countries due to volatile conditions in the region. Israel often has it's finger involved in stirring that turmoil.

No. I'm not talking about a citizen-military

Please, don't bring Israel into this thread. It doesn't belong.

What Israel does is not what I have proposed. Not that there aren't elements to it, and practices they have already implemented that could be a good example for how a citizen militia could work here.

Israel's system works for them, and I am glad for them. But that is not what we should do here. It is too mandatory. Too intergrated with regular military. The citizen militia I have proposed is very loose-knit & voluntary.

PEOPLE OPPOSING TYRANNY - Real Grass Roots!
Are you a POT or a PET - Person Embracing Tyranny?

It is a citizen military

and I'm stating what I believe to be the perfect solution for a sovreign nation and it's states, that has any honest attempt at restructoring and implementing a citizen military that actually is proven to work.

What Israel has is a citizen military. I know. I said that. But

What I have suggested, and what our founders proposed was not a citizen military but a citizens' militia. There is a difference.

PEOPLE OPPOSING TYRANNY - Real Grass Roots!
Are you a POT or a PET - Person Embracing Tyranny?

There is a big difference

Ever wonder what Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, Adams, Lincoln for that matter.. ever wonder what they would think if they flew in a F-16, or a nuclear sub, or saw a control room in the Pentegon?

They'd probably say

Tom down the road would think this is pretty cool, better the locals have these than some jack boot!

"It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere".
--Voltaire

It's hard not to be a menace to society when half the population is happy on their knees. - unknown

Bumping - Educate Others, ReReview and Post Links

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Having a Copy of the Constitution in one hand, means nothing without a copy of the federalist papers, and EVEN MORE importantly, a copy of the RATIFYING CONVENTIONS in the other which defines the meanings and intent of the words and phrases in both the Federalist papers and Constitution.

Educate Others.

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RichardTaylorAPP - Chair - American Patriot Party.CC

John Locke #201, 202, 212 to 232; Virginia and Kentucky Resolutions 1798; Virginia Ratifying Convention 6-16-1788; Rights of the Colonists 1772.

Ditto

Thank you for taking the time to post this, Richard.

"What if the American people learn the truth" - Ron Paul

thank you Richard...

The 'incomprehensible' has happened. The Federalist document now seems incomprehensible to us in 2013.

Just to KNOW where their minds and hearts were at... in exact and precise wording WHAT and WHO they were trying to PROTECT our blood bought Liberty from...
can NEVER be erased or distorted by clever words.
It (always) sits and waits for discovery...
thanks again for uncovering and exposing it.