50 votes

My Position On Israel (Inspired by Granger)

Granger and others have been 'discussing' Israel. When the topic is raised in my community, I also get staunch supporting/opposing views.

My position is this: Israel is free to aspire all that they want, just as any other nation should be free to do. I do not support them, nor do I oppose them.

What I oppose is when OUR representatives entertain ANY foreign lobbyist as opposed to their own constituents. THAT is when I have a big and legitimate problem.

I am for world peace. I am for free market. But I am also for my Republic remaining sovereign, so that we who live here may protect it no matter what may possibly happen around the globe.

This may be a rudimentary post, but some things require rudimentary answers/solutions.

Btw: it has been said that Israel is smarter and more advanced. Maybe, maybe not, but when our representatives decide to invest in OUR nation and not nation-build overseas, I have NO doubt whatsoever that we can and will hold our own.



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Granger is a joke when it comes to Israel

She called me an Anti-Semite when I posed my views on Israel. When I posted a link to where I got my information from, she shut up.

http://www.truetorahjews.org/

Owned, Operated, updated, and Maintained by Orthodox Jews. She is a Zionist shill. Wouldn't surprise me in the least if she was employed by Give Israel Your United Support.

Zionist hacks are racist close minded imbeciles not capable of seeing anything outside their own racist ideology. Same goes for Zionist Christians.

And about Israel being smarter and more advanced? Not likely, I've been there. They're just above a 3rd world nation. Racism is prevalent, if you're Arab you are treated and viewed differently. Or just ask the Palestinians who go to work every day in Israel that have to come and go through a Demilitarized zone if Israel is smarter or more advanced. They are just above Mexico in my opinion. Same run down cities torn by war, but without the drug cartels.

Granger is

obviously a zionist plant. They infest the internet and certain sites like wikipedia and DP to spin opinion pro-israel. They give their people classes in doing this. They have to do it because they are immoral blood sucking hypocrites who want Americans stupid and compliant with their manipulation. They are probably blackmailing Congress and the obammunist which explains the Israel worship and selling us out to be their bitch.

I can get along just fine with honest adherents of Judaism

"We implore and beseech our Jewish brethren to realize that the Zionists are not the saviors of the Jewish People and guarantors of their safety, but rather the instigators and original cause of Jewish suffering in the Holy Land and worldwide."

http://www.truetorahjews.org/naziismzionism

They don't have any problem telling it like it is just like most people around here don't have any problem talking straight about how terrible the U.S. government has become.

Well, torah isn't that important really

:)
So, maybe Granger has a point there.

Torah isn't that important... to Jews...?

I hope you're being sarcastic.

There is nothing of so much importance as Torah, in Judaism.

That said there is no one known absolute correct way to interpret the Torah.

That's what the Talmud is; it's a book of differing, and compromising opinions / interpretations of the Torah. You'll get both sides of the argument, on either side of each page, and the compromising interpretation in the middle of the page. It is by no means the Word of G-d itself, and is not binding. Most Jews pay little to no attention to the Talmud, but every practicing Jew reads the Torah (5 Books of Moses).
The Talmud is not that important at all, especially in modern Judaism, and people on DP who are not Jewish, and know nothing about Judaism other than some critical articles or books they've read, think the Talmud is like super important.

PEOPLE OPPOSING TYRANNY - Real Grass Roots!
Are you a POT or a PET - Person Embracing Tyranny?

yes, it was sarc

Actually, I had started to say something about the Talmud, as well,
which would have been more funny, in light of your response.
But, I may have been the only person who saw the humor in it,
so I deleted it. Meh! Hindsight! Having spent many days, as a child,
in the courtyard of a neighborhood synagogue, chatting with the rabbi
and helping him garden his "Eden", as well as attending parochial schools
and the Methodist church, I'm aware of the importance of Torah.

"The Talmud is not that

"The Talmud is not that important at all, especially in modern Judaism, and people on DP who are not Jewish, and know nothing about Judaism other than some critical articles or books they've read, think the Talmud is like super important." --Lawmanjed

I think I'll have to disagree with you on this point, Lawmanjed.

"If the Bible is the cornerstone of Judaism, then the Talmud is the central pillar, soaring up from the foundations and supporting the entire spiritual and intellectual edifice. In many ways the Talmud is the most important book in Jewish culture, the backbone of creativity and of national life. No other work has had a comparable influence on the theory and practice of Jewish life, shaping spiritual content and serving as a guide to conduct.

— Rabbi Steinsaltz"

The Talmud is to this day the circulating heart's blood of the Jewish religion. Whatever laws, customs or ceremonies we observe — whether we are Orthodox, Conservative, Reform or merely spasmodic sentimentalists — we follow the Talmud. It is our common law.

— Herman Wouk

The Bavli [Babylonian Talmud] has formed the definitive statement of Judaism from the time of its closure to the present day.

— Rabbi Dr. Neusner

"The United States can pay any debt it has because we can always print money to do that." — Alan Greenspan

First

I did not call you or anyone an anti-semite, because the term/lable "semite" is not relevant to MY position on Israel. It may be a relevant term/lable to others, but it is not relevant to my "love fest" with Israel. What I could have called you is a JEW HATER.

I have come to the conclusion that "Israel" and "Zionist", are "kind" words.. for all the blaming.. when you peal off the layers, theres' a JEW to BLAME, and many seem to be STUCK there.

Be stuck.

Second: ORTHODOX JEWS, are NOT zionists, even those who live in Israel because they want, ironically the same thing many zealot Christians want, and that is the Messiah to come, Christians want the return of the Messiah/in the name of Jesus Christ. This is not MY concern with or for Israel.. it is a healthy part of the fantastic tourist industry they have and I hope to enjoy one day.

Thid: I'm not employed by any Israeli organization, though to be honest, I would like to learn Hebrew, and I am VERY impressed with Israel's business opportunities.

How many Israelis work in Palestine everyday?
Why do you think Palestinians want jobs in Israel?
Could it be because Israel has GOOD jobs and freedom that is worth going through a border that has stopped suicide bombings of innocent Israeli children?

Just above Mexico eh? Let's see

Here's Tele Aviv: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyKFoi2qfME

Here's Mexico City: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uujehq-nbHA

Liar

Oh you called me a "Jew hater" gee I thought that's what an Anti-Semite was. It goes right along with your idiotic fascination with a nation born from hypocrisy.

Not stuck at all, I can call a spade and spade and don't hide behind a mask. You hide behind hubris, ignorance and hypocrisy. I have absolutely no qualms with ORTHODOX Jews. I have a problem with ZIONIST Jews. Your blind idiotic ignorance I guess renders you unable to tell them apart. Even your piss poor pathetic reasoning doesn't hold water.

So by your idiotic logic all Whites belong to the KKK? Or all Blacks are members of the Black Panthers? I mean if all Zionist are jews, then I have a problem with Jews. According to you that is.
Pathetic.

Hmmm can't seem to separate that racist ideology you find so fascinating can you?

Israel have good jobs? Sure take away 4 billion dollars a year that America provides Israel each year. Tell me how many jobs dry up. And one more note about "innocent children" how many Palestinian woman and children were murdered by Israeli white phosphorous? Or don't they matter because they aren't "Israeli"?

You bloated pompous ignorant fool. Apparently Israeli children are more important. At least in your mind. Racist coward.

apples to apples, oranges to oranges

compare Jerusalem to Mexico City
compare Tel Aviv to...

JEW HATER = ANTI-SEMITE

an·ti–Sem·i·tism
noun \ˌan-tē-ˈse-mə-ˌti-zəm, ˌan-ˌtī-\

: hatred of Jewish people

SOURCE: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anti-semitism

Not true.

A Semite is of the MIDDLE EAST. That includes Middle Eastern Arabs as well as Middle Eastern Jews.
The Jews that settled Israel, pre and post WW2, came from Europe and have no Semite blood, common heritage or common language.

Khazars is the true genealogy of non-Sephardics

True characterization would be Sabbatean Khazar to describe the modern Zionist partisans- or Biblical Pharisees.

Yes I know; However

Sem·ite
noun \ˈse-ˌmīt, especially British ˈsē-ˌmīt\

: a member of a group of people originally of southwestern Asia that includes Jews and Arabs

Full Definition of SEMITE

1a: a member of any of a number of peoples of ancient southwestern Asia including the Akkadians, Phoenicians, Hebrews, and Arabs

b: a descendant of these peoples

2: a member of a modern people speaking a Semitic language

SOURCE: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/semite

Plenty of people go here to define Semite, and because Judaism is transcontinential, spanning far more races than listed, and is a religion, I include them all.

seriously

the point is that in the first paragraph of your response you implied that you may have used "jew-hater" but not "anti-semite," I am simply pointing out to you that the common meaning is the same and therefore you weakened your reply. The definition of semite is irrelevalent. I always read your posts so as to understand your take which is coming from your experience which I respect but may not agree with --- at least you are passionate, concerned and genuine. Keep em coming :)

Doesn't matter

Too disillusioned of a person to even get across simple logic.

You made some valid points here,

and I hope others will read them without the bias against Israel that seems to incite all the down voting.

"Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern." ~~C.S. Lewis
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

I don't downvote anyone because of their opinion

Two things can earn a downvote from me. 1) Misinformation 2) Faulty Logic

I agree

except the invalid point that calling one a Jew Hater is not the same as calling them an Anti-Semite :)

There is a difference

Semite refers to a genetic race, Hebrew people.. the new covenant changed that.. none the less, I'm not going to make this religious post, and that's why I do not employ the term, "semite".. I know Jews who are Chinese, Black, Sophardic/South American/Turkish, Farci, Ashkenazi, and many different sects, orthodox, conform, reform, and cults, from kabahlists to Messianic, to Jews for Jesus.. and with exception of the Orthodox, and those who are for a NWO, I find the terms "zionist" and Israeli", to come down to "Jew" no matter what DNA, and there is no understanding, compassion, consideration, only fearmongering, conspiracy theory based on HATE (which to me, stems from jealousy, envy, because the excuse to blame comes down to money and siding with Palestine, never mentioning Jordan (West bank) or Egypt(Gaza) as part of the problem. I see plenty of reverse descrimination, "They think they are superior".

From what I'm seeing, they are, and rather than blame them, I believe we are better off COMPETING with them, wich would mean establishing a good working relationship. Good competition takes respect, and I'm not seeing that here.. and I wonder why? Hatred for Jews, semetic, chinese, black, you name it... oh sure, you might have slept with one once, but really.. many here HATE JEWS, and they can lash out at me for standing for Israel, that's not a complaint, simply a fact. I take it as their own struggle against denying a truth about themselves.

Finally, I believe Israel is the key to prosperity and security, I think their government leave a lot for us to desire because they are way more constitutional based than we are.. and they rejected the Un Agenda and are making the UN Agenda prove to be BS to end the UN.

You want to believe all that TR (Russian) and PressTV (Iran) YouTubes about Israel, enjoy. It's fabricated for you to reject support for the sovreign state of Israel. That's not how you stop government from spending tax bucks in Israel.. it's done by competing with Israel and trading, and yeah, they have more to trade that most.. It reminds me of the "Don't hate me because I'm beautiful" magazine ad... "Don't hate me because I'm Israel".

How come you

'know so many' Jews? Is your GOP district mostly Jewish and that's how you got to meet so many? I thought most Jews were democrats? Or do you attend Jewish conferences, meetings, whatevers? Do you attend AIPAC???
I really can't believe a word you say anymore if you don't explain your claim.

If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
James Madison

When I was in culinary school

I got a job as an apprentice guard manger (fruit, vegetable and ice carving) in Los Angeles, and most of the events we were hired, besides corporations like Disney and Sketchers, Alumni Parties.. were mega weddings, barmitzphas, batmizphas in many different temples, and in major hotels like Century Plaza, Beverly Hilton, and private homes in Beveryly hills where they wanted a mermain ice bar.. mermaids spit out margharitas or what ever,,

They were the clients.. all the major hotels have kosher kitchens BTW.. Richest person I ever met personally was a Chinese woman who had been adopted as a baby by her Chinese mother and Jewish Father, who had purchased a plastics company in China and wound up putting their names on hospitals and skyscrapers in NY, Israel and China.

Matter of fact.. the fruit and vegetables we used came from ELATS off Pico Street and La Ceinega Blvd.. so I get to meet a lot of Jews and orthodox Jews at the market, and caterers for the events.. which was cool becasue I live good middle Eastern food, and these guys were awesome.. they would have the truck dock full of BBQs.. very nice people.. at the time I was into learning how to cook the food..

And I have friends who are Jewish and I have been to an Orthodox mass, and several reform... and enjoyed many events.

I checked out the AIPAC webpage for the first timew a couple months ago. While we both claim to support Israel, I don't think it's up to MIC contracts to support Israel as much as they do.

You're a fool and can't even grasp simple language

You throw around words to which you don't even understand the meaning.

Conspiracy:

An agreement between two or more persons to engage jointly in an unlawful or criminal act, or an act that is innocent in itself but becomes unlawful when done by the combination of actors

Theory:

a supposition or a system of ideas intended to explain something, esp. one based on general principles independent of the thing to be explained.

Only a Mainstream media educated sheep uses the words "Conspiracy Theory" together in the same sentence hoping to disengage the argument on the basis of horrible word usage.

Jews are NOT SUPERIOR either as a race or a religion. They are human beings and no human being is superior over another. That is not jealousy that's fact. People only "lash out" at you for your blind allegiance to Zionism which is a proven racist ideology of supremacy. You're the one who is "stuck".

I don't hate Jews, far from it. I hate ZIONIST. I can differentiate between the 2. For some reason you cannot. You're a Zionist and I HATE EVERYTHING you stand for.

"I HATE EVERYTHING you stand for"

I have no doubt that is true, and I have no doubt that you are wrong about what I stand for, because you are too busy trying to educate me (between the name calling and insults) to bother finding out what I think.. you think you know what I think because you know the difference between a Jew and a Zionist.

What kind of zionist am I?

Since you KNOW so much.. tell me, what kind of zionist am I and what do I stand for when I stand with Isreal?

You're a Self Admitting Zionist

Which means you're a racist and hold Jewish people, religion, and heritage above anyone else. It's blind allegiance, cowardice and hypocrisy. I don't care what you, or anyone else says. NO STATE HAS A RIGHT TO EXIST!!

PEOPLE HAVE A RIGHT TO EXIST. Nations are nothing more than political boundaries. Without people to recognize those boundaries states would not exist. People exist regardless of a state. So you tell me, who has a right to exist?

It's abundantly clear what you stand for. Blind allegiance to Israel for the sake of Israel. Hell I'm not even stupid enough to have blind allegiance to my own country which predates that U.N. legislated mandate by 172 years.

Lady I don't even think you know what you're thinking. You're all over the place attempting to defend your assertions looking like a fool every time you do. It's very apparent in your bias defensive tactics.

Israel is a piss ant 3rd would country, I HAVE BEEN THERE. Have you? I've been to Haifa, Tel-Aviv , Jerusalem, Nazareth, and Ramla. So save your bullshit about what a "great country Israel is". I've seen it for myself. I've also been to Mexico, which is why I made the comparison.

I can tell you without a doubt Israel would collapse within a DECADE if the United States withdrew support, financial and militarily. That's not a nation that is strong and can hold it's own. It's because of people like you with blind Zionist allegiance that Israel is allowed to exist in it's current corrupted form. A politician could be the most double crossing shit stain on the planet, and idiots like you would vote for him when he waves his little Israeli flag.

You shouldn't be asking me what I think you stand for. You should be asking yourself if you support racist ideology. Because I see no difference between KKK, Black Panthers, and Zionist. Each are extremist in their thought of their own perceived superiority.

So when you call yourself a Zionist, you call yourself a racist. Which is why I hate everything you stand for.

Yes, I am a self admitting zionist

Ever hear of Durban? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7Mupoo1At8

The fact you don't care, there is nothing to debate.. you don't care. Gotcha.

I do care, so when you care. You let me know, and we'll debate, and what's more, your violent choice of words and cursing is not peaceful, or kind, and makes you a hypocrite you speaks violently and attacks in the name of peace.

I have not yet been to Israel.. I am making my plans for an extended stay because there's a lot I want to do there, including volunteering for the IDF.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7Mupoo1At8

So you admit to being a racist

Got it

You can't debate. Because you don't have a leg to stand on.

Racist

I don't care about your pathetic belief in Israel having a "right to exist". Because it doesn't, and as I clearly explained which you again failed to understand. NO STATE HAS A RIGHT TO EXIST.

You're pathetic. Might as well block you like the other users have so I don't have to entertain your stupidity anymore.

Let me know when you care.

Besides ranting, you're BIG message is: YOU DON'T CARE.

There is NO debating with someone who does not care. I can not force you to care. I don't want to force you to care. You have admitted in post after post that YOU DON'T CARE. Everything else is insults and name calling. I hoped that you learned that Israel had NO "NO" votes at the UN when it was established and Israel has a right to exist, because rights are intelectual properties that are worth fighting to have and to hold by those who appreciate property, ownership, freedom to enjoy one's property and explore life as a human being in a protected and healthy environment.

Wrong again zionist STOOGE

If I didn't care I wouldn't keep trying to show you the error of blind allegiance. But continue to twist what I said if it helps you sleep at night moron. It's not like it's apparent in post after post how many times you get down voted or told that you're blind. You just don't get it.

You'll defend your idiotic and pathetic position to the death. Even when presented with facts, you respond with emotion. No logic, no reason, just emotion.

You align yourself with racist, and you're ok with that. Your attempt to even rationalize your love for a racist state is a complete joke. You can't even prove that Zionism is not racist. It's all about Jew Superiority, now if a white guy said "White Power" he'd be correctly called a racist, same if a black guy said "Black Power". You go around saying your a Zionist, you equate yourself to being a racist. Yet something just doesn't click upstairs for you.

Are the lights on and no one home? What is it? Are you really that dense? I mean any logically thinking human being, being presented with FACTS would at least take a look and rethink about the position they've made. But you? Nope, you sit right there defending racist, and racism and align yourself with them. You talk about peace and liberty out of one side of your mouth, then racism and bigotry from the other. Yet you don't see a problem with that.

So is it liberty and freedom for Zionist only? Is that how it works in your make believe world?