6 votes

The Pope has spoken: You don’t have to believe in God to go to heaven

The only issue with this is you must 1. admit there IS a heaven and 2. allow the Pope some sort of authority to declare this.

In comments likely to enhance his progressive reputation, Pope Francis has written a long, open letter to the founder of La Repubblica newspaper, Eugenio Scalfari, stating that non-believers would be forgiven by God if they followed their consciences.

Responding to a list of questions published in the paper by Mr Scalfari, who is not a Roman Catholic, Francis wrote: “You ask me if the God of the Christians forgives those who don’t believe and who don’t seek the faith. I start by saying – and this is the fundamental thing – that God’s mercy has no limits if you go to him with a sincere and contrite heart. The issue for those who do not believe in God is to obey their conscience.

“Sin, even for those who have no faith, exists when people disobey their conscience.”

Read more:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/pope-francis-...



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So basically, I can no longer

So basically, I can no longer use the phrase "is the Pope Catholic?"?

Plan for eliminating the national debt in 10-20 years:

Overview: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2010/09/12/my-plan-for-reducin...

Specific cuts; defense spending: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/more-detailed-look-a

????

I am perplexed.

donvino

Pope ... You!

I love how everyone is always right while everyone else is always wrong. In a sense when we disagree with the pope we are becoming our own popes. Easily put what the pope is saying is that God can do anything He wants. If he wanted to save the worst person who ever walked the earth He can (He is God). God doesn't have to relay on some feelings in Our heart and words out of our lips to be God, He is just God He is the one that created the Heavens and earth. However that being sad for whom much is given (that us) much is expected. Live out your faith in fear and trembling because God is ultimately in charge and even the best of us could be sent to hell if we catch Him on a bad day.

Oops

...

Who really knows?

Unless anybody here has had a near death experience, who really knows for sure? I mean I know there's scripture in various religions that says a religious person that kills a bunch of people has a better chance to get into heaven than an atheist version of Mother Teresa. In my life, I've learned tolerance. For instance. My father is an atheist, my mom is a Catholic, my wife is a Muslim and I, like our own friend inspirational youtube icon Tragedy & Hope have an interest in Buddhism but also learn from all Religions. What about a caveman on a deserted island that led a peaceful life who's never heard of God. Is it the caveman's fault that he's never heard of God? As human beings, I don't believe it's up to us to decide what God thinks otherwise, if we did, then we might as well call ourselves God. One thing I love about the Paul bunch is that we are a very diverse bunch with many different backgrounds and celebrate the constitution which says Freedom of Religion.

The Papacy is Anti-Christ = Against GOD.

"Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six." - Revelation 13:18

H -E-L- A- T- I- N-E B-A-S-I-L-E-I-A
0 8 30 1 300 10 50 8 2 1 200 10 30 5 10 1 = 666
Greek transliterations and numerical values reveal the location of Satan’s seat today: HE LATIN’E BASILEIA means: “The Latin Kingdom.”

I - T - A-L -I- K- A E-K- K L- E -S- I - A
10 300 1 30 10 20 1 5 20 20 30 8 200 10 1= 666
The little horn’s church in Greek with its numerical values: Italika Ekklesia means: “Italian Church.”

L- A- T- E- I-N- O- S
30 1 300 5 10 50 70 200 = 666
Greek transliterations revealing the kingdom’s language: Lateinos meaning – “Latin Speaking Man.”

V-I- C- A-R- I-U-S F-I-L- I-I D- E-I
5 1 100 0 0 1 5 0 0 1 50 1 1 500 0 1 = 666
The official Latin name for the pope with its numerical value of Roman numerals: Vicarius Filii Dei is Latin for: “VICAR OF THE SON OF GOD.” Blasphemous.
Note: U’s are V’s in the Roman Alphabet.

Address to US bishops on ad limina visit By Pope Benedict XVI
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/speeches/2012...

(The pope hates our Constitution)

Dear Brother Bishops,

I greet all of you with fraternal affection and I pray that this pilgrimage of spiritual renewal and deepened communion will confirm you in faith and commitment to your task as Pastors of the Church in the United States of America. As you know, it is my intention in the course of this year to reflect with you on some of the spiritual and cultural challenges of the new evangelization.
One of the most memorable aspects of my Pastoral Visit to the United States was the opportunity it afforded me to reflect on America’s historical experience of religious freedom, and specifically the relationship between religion and culture. At the heart of every culture, whether perceived or not, is a consensus about the nature of reality and the moral good, and thus about the conditions for human flourishing. In America, that consensus, as enshrined in your nation’s founding documents, was grounded in a worldview shaped not only by faith but a commitment to certain ethical principles deriving from nature and nature’s God. Today that consensus has eroded significantly in the face of powerful new cultural currents which are not only directly opposed to core moral teachings of the Judeo-Christian tradition, but increasingly hostile to Christianity as such.
For her part, the Church in the United States is called, in season and out of season, to proclaim a Gospel which not only proposes unchanging moral truths(The 10 Commandments) but proposes them precisely as the key to human happiness and social prospering (cf. Gaudium et Spes, 10). To the extent that some current cultural trends contain elements that would curtail the proclamation of these truths, whether constricting it within the limits of a merely scientific rationality, or suppressing it in the name of political power or majority rule, they represent a threat not just to Christian faith, but also to humanity itself and to the deepest truth about our being and ultimate vocation, our relationship to God. When a culture attempts to suppress the dimension of ultimate mystery, and to close the doors to transcendent truth, it inevitably becomes impoverished and falls prey, as the late Pope John Paul II so clearly saw, to reductionist and totalitarian readings of the human person and the nature of society.
With her long tradition of respect for the right relationship between faith and reason, the (Catholic) Church has a critical role to play in countering cultural currents which, on the basis of an extreme individualism, seek to promote notions of freedom detached from moral truth. Our tradition does not speak from blind faith, but from a rational perspective which links our commitment to building an authentically just, humane and prosperous society to our ultimate assurance that the cosmos is possessed of an inner logic accessible to human reasoning. The Church’s defense of a moral reasoning based on the natural law is grounded on her conviction that this law is not a threat to our freedom, but rather a "language" which enables us to understand ourselves and the truth of our being, and so to shape a more just and humane world. She thus proposes her moral teaching as a message not of constraint but of liberation, and as the basis for building a secure future.
The Church’s witness, then, is of its nature public: she seeks to convince by proposing rational arguments in the public square. The legitimate separation of Church and State cannot be taken to mean that the Church must be silent on certain issues, nor that the State may choose not to engage, or be engaged by, the voices of committed believers in determining the values which will shape the future of the nation.
In the light of these considerations, it is imperative that the entire Catholic community in the United States come to realize the grave threats to the Church’s public moral witness presented by a radical secularism which finds increasing expression in the political and cultural spheres. The seriousness of these threats needs to be clearly appreciated at every level of ecclesial life. Of particular concern are certain attempts being made to limit that most cherished of American freedoms, the freedom of religion. Many of you have pointed out that concerted efforts have been made to deny the right of conscientious objection on the part of Catholic individuals and institutions with regard to cooperation in intrinsically evil practices. Others have spoken to me of a worrying tendency to reduce religious freedom to mere freedom of worship without guarantees of respect for freedom of conscience.
Here once more we see the need for an engaged, articulate and well-formed Catholic laity endowed with a strong critical sense vis-à-vis the dominant culture and with the courage to counter a reductive secularism which would delegitimize the Church’s participation in public debate about the issues which are determining the future of American society. The preparation of committed lay leaders and the presentation of a convincing articulation of the Christian vision of man and society remain a primary task of the Church in your country; as essential components of the new evangelization, these concerns must shape the vision and goals of catechetical programs at every level.
In this regard, I would mention with appreciation your efforts to maintain contacts with Catholics involved in political life and to help them understand their personal responsibility to offer public witness to their faith, especially with regard to the great moral issues of our time: respect for God’s gift of life, the protection of human dignity and the promotion of authentic human rights. As the Council noted, and I wished to reiterate during my Pastoral Visit, respect for the just autonomy of the secular sphere must also take into consideration the truth that there is no realm of worldly affairs which can be withdrawn from the Creator and his dominion (cfr. Gaudium et Spes, 36). There can be no doubt that a more consistent witness on the part of America’s Catholics to their deepest convictions would make a major contribution to the renewal of society as a whole.
Dear Brother Bishops, in these brief remarks I have wished to touch upon some of the pressing issues which you face in your service to the Gospel and their significance for the evangelization of American culture. No one who looks at these issues realistically can ignore the genuine difficulties which the Church encounters at the present moment. Yet in faith we can take heart from the growing awareness of the need to preserve a civil order clearly rooted in the Judeo-Christian tradition, as well as from the promise offered by a new generation of Catholics whose experience and convictions will have a decisive role in renewing the Church’s presence and witness in American society. The hope which these "signs of the times" give us is itself a reason to renew our efforts to mobilize the intellectual and moral resources of the entire Catholic community in the service of the evangelization of American culture and the building of the civilization of love. With great affection I commend all of you, and the flock entrusted to your care, to the prayers of Mary, Mother of Hope, and cordially impart my Apostolic Blessing as a pledge of grace and peace in Jesus Christ our Lord.


http://youtu.be/uKcXTYWh2F0

Ooops I am replying to a post with 666 words.

You know what that means.

Free includes debt-free!

In true Catholic Tradition.

Twist the truth to appease those who reject lawfulness.

Let's clarify the Pope's statement. There are those who "Keep the Commandment's of Elohim and the Testimony of Yahshua Messiah" who will be raised up with Messiah after the tribulation and will reign with Him. There are also those who profess a belief in Messiah yet do not actually follow His Commandments who along with those who do not believe in Him, or know Him, will be judged according to their works in the final judgement.

Just because someone thinks they are doing good does not mean they ARE doing good according to Scripture or our Creator. "There is a way that seems right to man but the end thereof is Destruction." "He who despises the Law even his prayers are an abomination."

According to Paul's writings there are those who, though they don't know the Law, by there nature are lawful in manner and that lawfulness is accounted to them as righteousness. But the fact that someone does what they think is good in their own eyes doesn't mean that it is righteous. Only if it is Scriptural lawfulness/righteousness.

There will be some who lived without knowledge of Him or His Law who will be judged in the final judgement and found worthy according to their works. But they along with false believers will not be part of the first resurrection "over which the second death has no power".

Telling people they can just do what they THINK is right and they will enter the Kingdom is a big fat lie and the Pope will pay dearly for his deception and sinfulness. HalleluYah.

meekandmild's picture

The Pope is the man of sin

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 KJV 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Doesn't jive with

One of these things is not like the other: "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding in all your ways submit to Him and He will make your paths straight." -Prov 3:5

or

"God’s mercy has no limits if you go to him with a sincere and contrite heart. The issue for those who do not believe in God is to obey their conscience." -Pope Francis

Check out http://iroots.org/
"If you’re into political activism, at least for Ron Paul if not for anyone else, I strongly recommend spending some time with iroots.org." - Tom Woods

The Word

The word is "jibe."

Ĵīɣȩ Ɖåđşŏń

"Fully half the quotations found on the internet are either mis-attributed, or outright fabrications." - Abraham Lincoln

You have that right,

my friend.

I don't get that from what he wrote.

I see many articles claiming that Pope Francis said that non-believers "go to heaven" too. I get that from the headlines of articles reporting on the letter, but from reading what he wrote that is not what was communicated. I don't think he even addressed the issue of "going to heaven", which American evangelicalism is obsessed with, often to the detriment of their responsibility to the present. It seems to me that the Pope merely stated the reality of God's mercy, and of the moral duty of one who does not believe:

"As for the three questions you asked me in the article of August 7th. It would seem to me that in the first two, what you are most interested in is understanding the Church's attitude towards those who do not share faith in Jesus. First of all, you ask if the God of the Christians forgives those who do not believe and do not seek faith. Given that - and this is fundamental - God's mercy has no limits if he who asks for mercy does so in contrition and with a sincere heart, the issue for those who do not believe in God is in obeying their own conscience. In fact, listening and obeying it, means deciding about what is perceived to be good or to be evil. The goodness or the wickedness of our behavior depends on this decision."

I don't see anything wrong with this statement of the Pope. In fact I heartily agree with it, along with other statements he communicated in his letter. In particular, I was edified by this statement:

"In your editorial of July 7th, you also asked me how to understand the originality of Christian Faith as it is actually based on the incarnation of the Son of God, with respect to other religions that instead pivot on the absolute transcendency of God.

I would say that the originality lies in the fact that faith allows us to participate, in Jesus, in the relationship that He has with God who is Abbà and, because of this, in the relationship that He has with all other men, including enemies, in the sign of love. In other words, the children of Jesus, as Christian faith presents us, are not revealed to mark an insuperabile separation between Jesus and all the others: but to tell us that, in Him, we are all called to be the children of the only Father and brothers with each other. The uniqueness of Jesus is for communication not for exclusion."

This Pope seems to understand that his duty is not to defend the faith, but simply to live it, and communicate it. He seems to actually believe that God is real, self evident, and will mercifully make Himself known to anyone who seeks Him. I like that, and I agree.

http://www.repubblica.it/cultura/2013/09/11/news/the_pope_s_...

Agree whole heartedly

he is talking about forgiveness not heaven.
Not even the Pope can change God's rules.

God: I forgive you. Atheist:

God: I forgive you.

Atheist: Aww shucks, thanks God.

God: NOW BURN IN HELL FOR ETERNITY!!!

Atheist: NNNNNOOOOOOOOOOoooo....!!!

I think it's more like

I think it's more like this:

God: I forgive you and I love you.

Atheist: I don't believe in you.

God: I forgive you and I love you.

Atheist: I don't believe in you.

God: I forgive you and I love you.

Atheist: I don't believe in you.

...and so on for all of eternity.

Not according to the Holbrook guy below

He says if you don't believe when you die you will feel the wrath of god

For Freedom!
The World is my country, all mankind is my brethren, to do good is my religion.

Not according to me!

This is what God Himself has said!

God is righteous in all His ways and holy in all His works!

Praise be His name!

" In Thee O Lord do I put my trust " ~ Psalm 31:1~

So that means God forgiving me

And loving me unconditionally only applies until I die?

For Freedom!
The World is my country, all mankind is my brethren, to do good is my religion.

No religious opinion,but...

I have no religious opinion at all on this but I have to admit it is kind of cool the Pope has a twitter account with almost 3 million followers. The cyber age Pontif : @Pontifex

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

New world order... One World

New world order... One World Religion..

Now this is one everyone can handle... One with no rules... Just do what feels good and you go to heaven...

Upside down we go!

Pope after 1 year

"And yeah, this whole heaven and hell thing...its not real...just made sense to put it in the book so people would behave, tee hee hee...

But seriously, if you live according to these rules, eat right, go to church on Sunday then you probably won't go to jail and enjoy a moderately healthy and happy life...ciao, and thanks for all the fish."

Sad, the Catholic Church ain't what it used to be...

...I think it all started going downhill once they gave mass in the vernacular.

To clarify, I'm not Catholic, but I'm a sympathizer, because of the role the Church has played in checking the ambitions of temporal rulers. The Church's abandonment of that role is what I lament. The Church has been gradually folding up under external political pressure, which means one less obstacle for the totalitarian state.

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

The Catholic church never was what it used to be.

That's the Yogi Berra in me. The catholic church is only catholic by their decree. I prefer to call it the Roman Church and it has been "folding up under external political pressure" and promoting a "totalitarian state" since its inception in the second or third century AD.

Maybe he has

a personal relationship with the devil?

tasmlab's picture

Can the pope just make stuff up on God's behalf?

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

If he can, it trashes Pascal's wager.

Currently consuming: Gatto: "Underground history of education..", FDR; Wii U; NEP Football

Well, he has been since there

Well, he has been since there ever was a pope.

Oh, wait, sorry, he's "divinely inspired."

Simple Facts and Plain Arguments
A common sense take on politics and current events.

www.simplefactsplainarguments.com

According to the Quran you could be in trouble.

Now what should one do...How do you decide who is telling the truth here? This isn't fair.

VIII/36:
Lo! those who disbelieve spend their wealth in order that they may debar (men) from the way of Allah. They will spend it, then it will become an anguish for them, then they will be conquered. And those who disbelieve will be gathered unto hell.

Hmmm, I wonder why there is so much conflict in the world....

For Freedom!
The World is my country, all mankind is my brethren, to do good is my religion.

"How do you decide who is telling the truth here?"

1 John 4:1-5 " Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them."

Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

John Adams

Seriously

Your quoting from the bible. The Quran says the same stuff as well as other religions and they are just as convicted. Every company has a standard operating procedure with a mission statement. That doesn't mean they have the best product.

It's obvious something's wrong here....

For Freedom!
The World is my country, all mankind is my brethren, to do good is my religion.