In response to the 1st video:
1) I wish Nick Somberg had kept the firearm pointed down. Regardless of where hands are, the barrel never points at anything you do not intend to kill.
2) The Oakland County sheriff deputies handled this well, not perfect but well. It is fair for police to appear and assess a situation with an armed individual. If that is the way police handled the situation then it seems it is a safer community than most regarding police abuse.
3) I wish Nick Somberg had been more polite. Sgt. Stoner was trying to
explain how the firearm should be held while protesting. The final 'don't eff with me comment' was unnecessary.
4) I am glad people are practicing open carry and making it clear this is legal. There is a lot of anti-second amendment propaganda and I am glad the open carry movement is countering it.
5) Nick's next encounter with the sheriff deputies was awesome. This deputy handed it the best. Granted he did have hindsight on his side, but he approached civilly without his firearm drawn. (video posted above)
Nice job! P.S. I have that same door mat, sweet. Recommend everyone get one.
"Government is the entertainment division of the military-industrial complex". - Frank Zappa
why America will NEVER become enslaved. There are a LOT of guys like this. Trust me.
it would be considered armed robbery because the officer has a gun.
Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must. like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it.-Thomas Paine
The R3volution requires action, not observation!!!!
Correct me if i'm wrong, but i've never seen a psychopath carrying a gun waving a gadsen flag standing idly by the side of the road giving plenty of time and warning to people before he shoots.
Although I understand he has a right to do this, it doesn't mean that he should. The second amendment exists to guarantee the protection of our lives and personal property.
Standing on a street corner with a sign and an AR-15 to simply make the point that, "Hey everyone, look at me.... I have a gun" turns people off. It is no different than walking through a crowded mall screaming F*@k at the top of your lungs just because you have a 1st amendment right to free speech.
If you are looking to draw attention to second amendment rights, the video of girls open carrying in Walmart is a much more effective method. They were exercising their 2nd amendment rights as intended, by going about their daily lives with protection.
The more that people are saved from dangerous situations by citizens packing heat, the more credibility it builds with the public at large as to why the second amendment should be protected.
peace + liberty = prosperity
"It is no different than walking through a crowded mall screaming F*@k at the top of your lungs just because you have a 1st amendment right to free speech."
That's actually disorderly conduct on private property. The owners of the mall could have police escort you out because you are disturbing the peace.
Apples and Oranges, Sir.
If you don't know your rights, you don't have any.
PETA and Gay Pride tactics to win hearts and minds to our 2A rights.
How about a offering FREE gun safety training to anyone that fears guns?
Use the course to educate the public with statistics and smart practices when around, carrying and firing a gun.
That's a better way to keep our rights. We have a lot of media propaganda to overcome. Acting a fool just because you have a legal right to do so doesn't help any of us.
someone protesting on the corner without a gun holding a sign that said No Guns probably would have turned people off.
I don't agree that this is akin to running through a mall screaming profanities. Profanities are specifically intended to offend. I don't see how protesting your 2nd amendment rights is somehow the one thing you're not allowed to exercise your 2nd amendment rights while doing. I mean don't the 1st and 2nd amendment apply at the same time?
Also, wouldn't it be nice if your last paragraph were true? But it's not true. Because the media doesn't pick up that crap. If it were true that more citizens being saved by guns would help sway public opinion, nobody would even be debating this still. Many, many times more people are already saved by guns than are harmed. That is, when the government isn't involved.
Freedom in our lifetime! - fiol.us
I feel like I need to watch this video while holding the American flag, singing the national anthem, and shooting off some fireworks!
What a Patriot!
has GOT to have b@lls of steel lol.Awesome.
I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees...
do what you do for Liberty, amazing!!
kind people rock
to stand up for my rights as this young man does.
BTW, this video clearly illustrates that if you don't know the law, your rights will summarily be violated. If you don't know the law, you effectively don't have those rights.
The common thread that seems to run through all these open carry videos is that the thugs issue orders as if they have the force of law. They seem to know that the vast majority of people, not knowing their rights, will obey.
Wonder if they teach them that in thug school.
I'd rather be a hungry patriot than a satisfied slave.
Could the officer ask and see if the safety is on? Also ask the rifle be pointed at a steeper angle toward the ground? And leave it at that? Then engage in respectful non threatening conversation?
Law enforcement personnel should realize Ron Paul supporters are more likely to people who are more respectful of the law than ordinary people.
If I were a terrorist plotting my next attack or a half-crazy person wanting to kill them all, I guess the thing for me to do is wear a Ron Paul T-shirt and sling-on my AR-15.
Just when everyone started cheering me on, swing it around and unload.
And upon further investigation you find it's a progressive democrat trying to frame the liberty movement. We'll come out smelling like a rose on that score.
My point being gun ownership requires common sense and responsibility. It's fine to protest government's gun control laws but do it in a way that doesn't make you look crazy.
I also don't understand why it is unpatriotic to co-operate with the police. There is a difference between the police randomly pulling you over so they can search your vehicle for anything illegal and responding to a call to checkout a guy standing on the side of the road with a loaded gun harnessed over his shoulder waving a flag at cars as they pass by. Seems nutty to me.
Would it be okay to confirm that he isn't mentally unbalanced by having a simple friendly conversation with him? Would be okay to ask him to secure his gun so you can approach him to have that conversation?
was this man acting crazy? I just want to know where you are coming from.
a harnessed loaded gun swinging freely while he waves a flag at cars passing by.
The crazy part would be "a LOADED gun swinging freely."
If he's holding the flag with both hands, he doesn't have control of the gun, it's loaded, not smart, that's crazy.
It's legal to stand on the curb with no gun, no flag and point at cars as they pass by but I guarantee if you do it long enough, someone is going to call the police and say, "not sure about this guy, he's not hurting anyone but he's standing on the curb pointing at cars as they pass by."
I also guarantee the police are going to check it out since they received the call.
And let me ask you, how many times have you seen someone standing on the side of the road with a loaded gun swinging freely, waving a flag at cars as they pass by?
You don't have to answer that, I already know the answer.
It's not something you see everyday. Unfortunately, it makes responsible gun owners look bad to the those that fear guns.
I guess gang members could stand on the side of the road with loaded weapons but instead of waving a flag, they could flash their gang sign at cars passing by and people should think nothing of it and the police should ignore them as well.
I know if that was happening down the road from your house, you'd probably call the police.
And please don't take them as sarcasm. I really want to get to the bottom of this issue with everyone.
#1) How can a freely-swinging weapon be any danger to anyone if the sling is securing the weapon around the man's shoulders and no one has their finger close to the trigger?
#2) Why didn't the dispatcher ask the person calling the police if the man with the gun was brandishing the weapon or pointing it at anyone?
#3) If the guy with the AR-15 was holding a flag, how could he be intentionally pointing the weapon at anyone?
#4) Even if a man standing on a corner with a gun is something you don't see every day, does that mean it's wrong? (No need to get into a legality debate here as the police stood down and gave the man his property back)
Look KMTB, I understand where you are coming from: you don't like the way this kid is protesting because you feel it brings danger to the general populace, correct?
But what if a majority of the population was educated on weapons? What if more guns really does mean less crime, as the FBI.gov's census alludes to?
#1) How can a freely-swinging weapon be any danger to anyone if the sling is securing the weapon around the man's shoulders and no one has their finger close to the trigger?
It puts fear into people that don't know that the gun is secure. The uneducated see the gun, they watch the news of people committing mass murder. Some of these people are on psychotropic drugs. He's standing on the corner waving a flag at cars as they pass by. It's not a group standing around with signs protesting their 2A rights. It's a lone guy on the side of the road. It looks strange to the uneducated and foolish to some educated.
There have been many accidental mis-fires from guns that the owner swore it wasn't loaded and the safety was on. Gun safety dictates that you always treat a gun as loaded and the safety is off.
Why have a loaded gun for a lone protest? Still that wouldn't alleviate the fear some people have.
You would have to ask the dispatcher that one. Why couldn't the guy call the local police and tell them they may be getting some calls about him standing on the side of the road protesting his 2A rights with a safety-locked loaded gun on a harness? Had he done that the dispatcher may have asked the question and alleviated the concern from the caller. The caller could have just said, "I'm not sure but it was pointed toward the road." The caller could have lied and said, "yes". That would have brought a different response from the police.
Legally, he didn't have to call the police but sometimes it's best to do things not because you have to rather because it's smarter and with the thought of others that may have possible concern who aren't aware or uneducated.
I never said he was intentionally pointing it at anyone but keep in mind what the police officer said in the video about someone driving by and it appeared it was pointing at them. They may just caught a sudden flash of the gun as they were passing by. They didn't slow down to make sure. Maybe the flag covered the gun and as he was waving the flag the harness adjusted and the gun was no longer pointing down rather sideways.
It's not wrong but it's not wise either. There is a smarter way to do it. My original post title was titled "He right and he's wrong."
He could have made the police aware. He could have put-up a sign that passing drivers could have read stating his cause. He had a Ron Paul sign but the media has smeared him as crazy although we both know Ron Paul is the most honest and sane of the whole lot.
#5) Look KMTB, I understand where you are coming from: you don't like the way this kid is protesting because you feel it brings danger to the general populace, correct?
It's not so much the danger as freaking the uneducated out. I think that was his intent. Let me scare some people and have them call the police and tape it when they show to post on youtube. Really? That's going to win hearts and minds of people that disagree with 2A? Better to educate them that we take 2A with a measure of their fear and prove to them that we recognize the responsibility that 2A demands.
It's like two gay guys wearing short-shorts making out on the side of the road to protest their right to be gay. I don't care if they're gay but this not the way to get me to accept you. Don't try to cram it down my throat (no pun intended).
#6) But what if a majority of the population was educated on weapons?
I'm all for that. I don't own a gun. I use to but it was stolen. I've taken the CCW course and decided not to get the permit because if I'm caught with a concealed gun in certain places and I have a CCW permit, it's a felony, whereas if I don't have that permit, it's a misdemeanor.
My best friend owns an arsenal and we go shooting all the time. I enjoy it. I want an AR-15, AK-47, 12-gauge pump with a pistol grip, a couple of Glocks, a revolver and a 55-gallon drum of ammo for each one. I can't afford any of it. I'd settle for a small automatic or revolver to carry concealed.
I wouldn't pull it out unless I knew a jury wouldn't convict me for defending myself, permit or no permit.
Yes, we do need to educate people but also realize there are better ways to do it.
#7) What if more guns really does mean less crime, as the FBI.gov's census alludes to?
What do you mean "what if"? Guns do make us safer as long as they are handled responsibly. Violent crimes have sky-rocketed in countries that ban guns.
Like "they" say, better to have a gun and not need it, than need a gun and not have it.
#8) If you don't know your rights, you don't have any.
If they take my 2A right away, I'll have a gun as soon as I can afford one...or "borrow" one to keep...forever.
I think the gun should have been carried in such a way that it points as close to straight down as possible. If it was angled at all toward the traffic it is naturally going to alarm people. What would be wrong with a sign that said that he was demonstrating his 2nd amendment rights so that people would know what was happening and would not think he was a mentally ill person?
Yes, weapons should be carried properly.
I believe the mans weapon was in a proper vertical carry position.
But, what would be wrong with carrying a sign alerting people that one is doing....nothing wrong?
So that I can assure everyone that I am not mentally ill?
Need I identify which Constitutionally garranteed right I am exercising at all times?
"I'm not a crazy person talking to himself, I'm exercising my 1st Amendment rights"!
I cannot see having to show justification each time I enjoy my God given natural right,
to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit.
However, one can always voluntarily mitigate potential misunderstanding by declaring (with a sign) their intention.
I would have to say the extra large Gadson Flag he was holding was a pretty good "sign" to clarify his actions and intent.
So yes, nothing would be wrong with a sign to clarify ones actions; provided it is voluntary.
When it comes to my natural God given right...
I ain't got no 'splainin' to do!
Exercise Liberty... with a sign if you wish.
The Constitution Stands.
"That the pen is mightier than the sword would be proven false; if I should take my sword and cut off the hand that holds the pen" - American Nomad
If you lived across the street from this guy and your kids wanted to play in the front yard, would you feel okay with them doing so while he's exercising his God given rights to wear a loaded gun that was pointing at a 45-degree angle toward the ground while waving a flag using both his hands?
Say the gun mis-fired and ricocheted off the road, would that be okay?
I don't have a problem with his protest, I have a problem with his unsafe method of protest.
God-given rights exercised without God-given common sense can lead us to wonder why God allows bad things to happen.
You are an excellent communicator sir. To mitigate potential misunderstanding was the intent of my suggestion.
To be honest, it I saw someone marching back and forth along the road with an axe or a pitchfork, the first thing I would think of is whether or not they were playing with a full deck. If I knew they were doing so to make a political statement then I would be more likely to support their actions.
You make some very good arguments though about why one should not have to justify exercising their god given rights.
We all learn and grow together, and
together, we are HEAVY!
is great don't give them an inch and always have a video camera ready. We need to have more armed rallies so people can realizes we have our natural god given rights to keep and bear arms.
This is a good training lesson for local police officers. There is clearly no intent here to commit a crime, nor was any crime being committed. Law enforcement need to learn to recognize and analyze situations like this and act appropriately.
I believe the officer at the center of this incident, after realizing the facts of this situation, acted appropriately by returning the homeowners property. I was glad to see the officer didn't, in the end, let his emotions get in the way of his final decision.
Local law enforcement should use this video in officer training exercises. Perhaps through practice, law enforcement officers will be able to asses situations like this more quickly and resolve these situations more quickly, without making such a big deal of it.
we had a 9/11 memorial gun shoot day out here in florida and some stupid old lady in a car heard the gun shots... stopped in front of the house wrote down our address and reported us. i can't stand how even in the south there are these stupid citizens who know damn well your allowed to shoot on your own property and carry weapons. Cops that showed up were 100% cool and just chatted with us and laughed about the stupid lady who called. Then there are these asshole types of cops whose own political stance gets in the way of the law and constitution
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