2 votes

Greenbacker or Anti-Statist Libertarian….which one are you?

There has been a challenge from someone one on this site that will remain nameless (but his initials are Bass1ass)……this challenge is….. I don’t dare post my thoughts on the main page for fear of retribution from the “truth” minded people on this site. This challenge resulted from me calling out the 9-11 crowd for being nasty to anyone that dared to challenge the conspiracy kooks on the events of 9-11. When this topic bubbled up again, just like it does every September, I decided to challenge the kooks because of their downright nasty behavior to people and newbies………because seriously folks…..is that who we are on here? We all have a common enemy…….the apparatus of government that makes life difficult for the people of this country and the people in other countries around the world. We all have the “live and let live” mentality on this site……at least I think we do. So when folks are nasty to people on here because they don’t believe the same things you do………….I defend the “right” of all to voice their opinion…….being nasty is the weak-minded way of coping…..and yes I am guilty myself…..at least to the kooks ……even if you are a kook……you have a right to be a kook. Yeah I know I am being a hypocrite right now…….that is in jest.

My true opinion on the 9-11 is this……I really do not care about solving what happened on 9-11. I care about what the government has done to us since the tragic events on 9-11……whether it be a false flag or terrorism……we may never know for sure……but one thing is certain…… WE ALL LOST LIBERTY AFTER THAT DAY…….PERIOD.

For the families and friends that lost loved ones, my heart truly goes out to you. I actually know the feeling of losing a loved one and not have complete answers or reasons why it happened and not being able to hold the persons accountable. As a boy of 6 years old it was devastating to lose my father, on Father’s Day none the less, to a drunk driver and have the driver be the son of the police chief in the small town I grew up in. To be drug to an office by my mother (I didn’t know at the time was the office of the town DA) and watch as she is brow beat in not pursuing some type of justice left an indelible mark of the corruption at the hands of the political apparatus of the State…….once again my heart goes out to the family and friends of the victims of 9-11.

There is a point at which you have to say enough is enough…..it’s now gained the popular phase of “where is your red line”. At what point do you stand up and say “This is not the government I want”.
I just told you were my “red line” was……you have to decide for yourself…..even for the kooks. If “YOU THINK YOUR GOVERNMENT” is capable of pulling off 9-11……isn’t that your red line. Having that much skepticism of the authority of the State is an admission of your “red line”….if so….. What do you plan to do about it?

“The enemy of my enemy is my friend”……..unless you are talking about the topic of conspiracies and the philosophy of Statism…….in that case the “The enemy of my enemy is…….. my enemy”. It has been stated on here that Jim Rogers and Marc Faber are on the same page as Karen Hudes and Catherine Austin Fitts. Because they all speak the truth…..except they don’t. The former’s only agenda is to educate people of the reasons why things are the way they are…..the ladder thinks they should be the ones to us tell who is doing these things and that they should be in control……yes…..to displace the current government is in effect saying that you would be better at being in charge then the present apparatus in charge…..they don’t want to change the system…..they just want to get the crooks and thugs out so they can be in charge……so the good people will be in charge. When it comes to the state……there are NO GOOD PEOPLE……THERE IS ONLY THE STATE.

There is a huge difference between the people speaking out for Liberty and the Kooks. The conspiracy kooks roots are in the philosophy of the Greenbackers and these ladies are standing up……not for Liberty…… but for more Statism…..for their Statism. Jim Roger and Marc Faber know that State is corrupt, they accept that there are currently people doing bad things, but they also recognize that this is not the only generation to have this kind of corruption….they understand that it is not “who” is in charge…..it is the fact that there is an “in charge “to be had.

The Greenbackers are a Statist Populace Political movement from the turn of the last century. Do you know where the Greenbackers get their roots?……the Church…..not your local place of worship……the political apparatus of control……Church. Haven’t you kooks ever thought…..why is my movement the only one backed by God? (and I will stop calling you kooks from now on and call you by the name of the movement you are perpetuating….The Greenback Movement)

Here is an excerpt from Gary North’s book “Gertrude Coogan’s Bluff
https://mises.org/document/5812/Gertrude-Coogans-Bluff-Green...

“End the Fed.” With these words, Congressman Ron Paul has mobilized a small army of political activists who did not know what the Federal Reserve System was in 2005. This three-word slogan is the culmination of Austrian School economist Murray Rothbard’s work, which began in the 1950s. People who had never heard of central banking in 2005 now know that the Fed has been at the heart of the Federal government’s attempt to save the big banks. They do not approve. I certainly share their antipathy.

All of this has increased the demand for Austrian School economics materials as never before. The Mises Institute has benefited greatly. But the Mises Institute is not the only beneficiary. Unbeknownst to the vast majority of people who now call themselves conservatives another movement has benefited. It also has been critical of factional reserve banking. It also has been critical of the Federal Reserve System. It also has published books against the Fed—books that extend back to the days before the Fed was created by Federal law in 1913. This movement is an extension of nineteenth-century Populism, which itself was an extension of an earlier movement devoted to the creation of a system of pure fiat money, a system run by the Federal government. This movement had its own political party in the 1880s: the Greenback Party, also known
as the Greenback Labor Party. In 1890, this party merged with the newly formed People’s Party, known as the Populist Party, three years after the Populist Party came into existence. Congressman James Weaver, the Greenback Party’s leader, was the Populist Party’s first nominee for President in 1892. He carried four states. The most famous spokesman for Populist Party ideals was the far-left, anti-gold standard politician William Jennings Bryan, who received the Populists’ nomination in 1896, the year that he first received the Democrats’ nomination. The Populist Party ended after 1908, the year of Bryan’s third loss as a nominee.

The Greenback movement is tied to the old Populist hatred of the “International Banking Conspiracy.” This frequently drifts into anti-Semitism, since the “International Jewish Banking Conspiracy” is always just around the corner. Roman Catholics have been prominent in the movement, although Protestant Fundamentalists are just as numerous, but they are seldom the “intellectual” leaders. In addition, Anglo-Israelites have been Greenback supporters. The advocates of Greenbackism try to make their economic system the only
true “Christian” one.

Doesn’t it behoove those of us on here to remember that Ron Paul is an Austrian when it comes to his economic philosophy……not a Greenbacker.

Here is an excerpt from a Tom Woods article,

Someone sent me a video called “All Wars Are Bankers’ Wars.” Within three minutes I had to turn it off. It begins with a fake quotation from Ben Franklin, arguing that the most important driving force of the American Revolution was the British prohibition on paper money in the colonies. (Not to mention that the Currency Act was not even close to the driving force behind the Revolution.) Then the narrator quotes Rothschild, and this quotation is another fake. So the first two quotations of the whole video are unverified. Why should I keep watching?
My advice to Greenbackers: if the only sources for a quotation are other Greenbacker sites, it’s probably a fake. Have some decency as a researcher and seek out the actual source before repeating a quotation.

http://www.tomwoods.com/?s=Why+the+Greenbackers+Are+Wrong+

If you cannot see the difference then you just haven’t educated yourself properly as of yet. The conspiracies kooks ….excuse me The Greenbackers……. watch these videos and listen to “other” Greenbackers…..like The Money Master ( where James Corbett got his financial education) and think that they know the “truth” …….when the “truth” is they are part of the problem and not part of the solution. They believe that if we just expose the corrupt individuals that we can save the world from the New World Order. What they fail to realize is that the New World Order is coming to America soon……it not because the banksters and moneychangers are driving it…..it is coming because America is a dying Empire…..The U.S. Constitution may have been the beginning of the government of this country but it was the beginning of the end for the sovereignty of this country. We are standing at the Abyss of a Dollar Crisis, This crisis roots where sewn into the fabric of the government by way of the mercantilism agenda of Alexander Hamilton and his “American System”…….the Greenbacker keep the “TRUTH” of corruption hidden by all the tail chasing of the conspiracies…….the “TRUTH” is the Statist are winning and when the dollar finally does come apart we will be face with a decision…….to return to smaller government such as The Article of Confederation or take the path of least resistance to bigger government just as the State Governments did when they created this Mercantilist Empire by way of the U.S. Constitution.

Religion of Statism
http://www.dailypaul.com/293344/the-state-is-not-great-james...

Dollar Crisis
http://www.dailypaul.com/278419/the-deficit-that-no-one-talk...

Mercantilism
http://www.dailypaul.com/299578/abraham-lincoln-saved-americ...

So please confront me on anything I have said here…..the debate is welcomed as long as you attack what I say, Which the Greenbackers NEVER DO.

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last line ...in the best line

Are you on drugs?......how many times have i heard that in my life....how many times was it true.....child of the 60's here

America is NOT a dying Empire.

What is dying is the world Empire that has had America in its clutches since 1914. The same is true of the "Dollar Crisis". The currency that is in crisis is the Federal Reserve currency, the world reserve currency. America, the ideal nation that most Americans believe they live in, will be restored to its original purpose fully realised as it was meant to be. The currency will not be the centrally issued fiat called Greenbacks which, like the present currency, is precisely the opposite of the true meaning of money.

What is happening before our very eyes is the gradual destruction of the entire structure of Empire that has dominated the world stage for thousands of years. The final denouement will happen I believe within the next seven years and the foundation of this world system that has been so carefully built will be utterly destroyed, taking down all the ideologies, philosophies and religions associated with it, the doctrines and ideas that support it in people's minds.

Although many have begun to waken up to the nature of global central banking, the associated corporate cartels and the control that this has placed in the hands of a few very powerful families, the ideologies, philosophies and religions that are associated with this system, that have been insinuated into the public mind over many centuries, still maintain their grip on the foundational presuppositions that govern most people's thinking, even those who consider themselves to be "awake".

Until these presuppositions are dealt with, and they shall be, the vast majority of the world's population are still in bondage to them and are living inside a strong delusion. Personally I know that this is my own condition, but I am in the process of being released from it, which is why I know it exists and why I believe absolutely that I shall be completely healed and that my mind shall be entirely renewed and established in the Truth.

"Jesus answered them: 'Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin. The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son remains forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.'" (John 8:34-36)

That was a right pretty speech

... now what are you going to say to the Yankees when they come down that same road you refused to go up ?

I understand the point he was making but I should hope he and his sons are ready to deal with a armed mob of northern soldiers
( Federals ) who are going to shoot first and ask questions later

Life is a sexually transmitted disease with a 100% fatality rate.
Don't Give me Liberty, I'll get up and get it myself!

Have you ever seen the movie?

The Yankees do show up…..They don’t want his children to fight ……I guess they already had taken enough through conscription. They came after his property…..horses, food (if I remember correctly)…..basically any of his property the State wanted. They offered to pay for it, but of course at the price they determined to be fair. But it wasn’t for sale……so they just took it; just like the other State tried…..I see a pattern.

Cyril's picture

Neither.

Neither. I am of the strictly non-interventionist kind.

NON-intervention, of any shape, color, or form, as long as there is no complaint about the law or a contract being broken. Let people and businesses fail, learn from their mistakes, be reborn, and compete anew - to be successful anew when AND ONLY WHEN they deserve it via the products or services they provide, with free markets as their only referrees.

That's all.

Greenbacks IS serious intervention on the most hazardous resource, if fallen in evil hands, in my understanding : the very notion of money itself. And I don't welcome it at all.

Look where we are today. An era of greenbacks on steroids, with probably the most corrupt power - ever - and controlling the very fake money supply that keep them in place, thru wealth destruction, wealth redistribution, and the oh so convenient law perverted - legal plunder.

But, I am not strictly against the state, if it is tiny and of sole purpose of protecting the founding texts, the supreme law of the land, and the application of the just law - that is, justice, AND ONLY justice, to honor contracts between individuals or businesses, and as firmly opposed to central planning and management of people's lives.

Hence :

the neither.

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

Cyril, let go of the evil

You know guns, not used in defense, are evil. You know this.

You want to embrace morality. Do it!

I don't know what the statist 'moralist' objection that bothers you, pot smokers, homosexuals, something, but Cyril you know that using guns to stop that which you disapprove is evil

You know!.

Cyril, just accept that you are a moral person.

Reject satan/statism.

Cyril's picture

I really meant it. A TINY state.

Well, you know, when I wrote "tiny" I REALLY meant it.

My conception of a possibly acceptable state would not go beyond... courts, if only.

A free society will *still* have thieves, sometimes organized and not even violent.

If we are to enforce bankruptcy or anti-fraud laws, how can you do it without guns, jails, or prisons?

Would I need to wait until I know and meet many other victims of the same crooks, and agree to band together to go after them, before I can see justice served?

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

Anti Federalist here

but could a State issued currency compete with private currencies?
I think so.

Ron brought the Liberty movement together, Rand is expanding the crap out of it! :)

This is an interesting question.

May I ask why you think a state issued currency can complete with private currency?

For disaster releif

A State Treasury issue its own interest free credit? That would kick start an economy.
Having a way to trade while the private currency and credit issuers get in place will save lots of lives.
When other countries collapsed, they had a backup currency to soften the blow. We do not have that.

Ron brought the Liberty movement together, Rand is expanding the crap out of it! :)

By force, naturally.

The state demands payment of taxes in state-issued currency, at rates that the state imposes. If someone trades real goods or commodity-money to obtain the state currency to pay taxes, the state may even impose a "capital gains" tax.

Ĵīɣȩ Ɖåđşŏń

"Fully half the quotations found on the internet are either mis-attributed, or outright fabrications." - Abraham Lincoln

The state can't compete

It can compete because of compulsory subsidies. It can't of course in in a free society.

It's a good question though. Why not let the government compete? Well sure. Take away their monopoly on guns and see how well they do?

If they could compete without violence, they would.

Michael Nystrom's picture

Neither?


http://youtu.be/SEI2UUhVEn4

To be mean is never excusable, but there is some merit in knowing that one is; the most irreparable of vices is to do evil out of stupidity. - C.B.

Does this mean you are mocking me?

that was funny.

You are the administrator of this site….right? If you take a stand do you fear you would alienated some portion of the participates?

Let me ask you……do you think the greenbackers are a positive to the cause of Liberty?

If you wish to answer me in private feel free to retrieve my e-mail address.

Michael Nystrom's picture

Am I mocking you? Kind of

I'm glad you liked the clip. It cracked me up the first time I saw it in the movie (A Hard Day's Night), probably close to 30 years ago now. Isn't it funny how something like that can stay with you for the rest of your life?

What I liked about it is that Ringo rejects the binary question: Are you an A or a B? In this case, are you a Mod or a Rocker? As if those are the only two choices by which one could classify themselves in the music scene in 1964. The question on the face of it is ridiculous, and that is what makes Ringo's answer so charming and unexpected. "Neither (in my memory, he says 'neither), I'm a mocker!"

Charming. Disarming.

- - - -

Yes, I'm the owner of this site.

If you take a stand do you fear you would alienated some portion of the participates?

That is a good question, and I've never thought of it in those terms. I'm not so much worried about alienating a certain group of believers so much as I'm concerned about creating a firestorm for myself, where I have to defend myself against half the site, with people chasing me around and calling me names and stuff, and try to get me to "clarify my stance." Etc.

My opinion is that yes, the greenbackers are a net positive. Why? Because at the very least, they get people thinking and talking about the issue of money, which is better than talking about whatever's on TV these days.

But beyond that it is my opinion that the government printing its own money would be an incrementally better than letting the Fed print it, and then borrowing it from the Fed at interest. That is simply ridiculous. Greenbackers would definitely be an improvement over that.

Does that make me a Greenbacker? No.

However, anything that gets people thinking, talking and debating about things as fundamental about the nature of money, the government, the Constitution, the Fed, congress, budgets, deficits, spending, etc. That is a net positive.

Does that make me an Anti-Statist Libertarian? No.

And like scawarren said below, I don't label myself. Labels are for the convenience of others. I wrote a comment about that somewhere.

Why yes, here it is.

The world is much richer than an A/B choice.

To be mean is never excusable, but there is some merit in knowing that one is; the most irreparable of vices is to do evil out of stupidity. - C.B.
scawarren's picture

I think it just means he

I think it just means he doesn't like to label himself because it makes it easier for others to put you in boxes :)

It is easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. – Mark Twain