19 votes

What do we do when it all shuts down?

Most of us communicate, organize, and inform ourselves using the internet (Facebook, Twitter, blogs, and yes, the DailyPaul.). Saying this , if the government decides to shut down the internet, including cell phones, as a way to stop any resistance, what do we do? Are we flying blind? How do we come together and organize to resist tyranny? Do we go back to using old ways of communication? Just a thought.

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They can only slow it down.

They can only slow it down. There is no shutting it off completely.
There are multiple redundancies and nodes that are not under the direct control of gov. There are overseas connections and private networks too.

Unless they shut off the power grid completely. Even so, as has been pointed out, they can't stop us communicating.

"The United States can pay any debt it has because we can always print money to do that." — Alan Greenspan

I don't think this is a realistic vision of what might happen.

I think this is like asking "how are our guns going to defeat the government's nukes". The government only exists because we support it existing with our dollars. If they nuke us, they don't exist either because they kill the workers or their support system (homes, places of business, etc.) Just like our homes and businesses, the internet and phone service supports our ability to work and pay taxes, thus those pieces of infrastructure are necessary for us to live and to support the existence of the government. For that reason, I think it is unreasonable to think the government would do anything like that. They would be defeating themselves in the process. Like the brain killing the body but not understanding that the body is what allows the brain to live.

Free market capitalism isn't right for America because it works better. It's right because it's free (and it works better).

The Soviets had plenty of nukes

but couldn't prevent dissolution and breakup.

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

George Santayana

Very interesting!

I like your interpretation. You're likely to be right if the government uses logic and reason in decision making.

Unfortunately, that seldom happens.

You wont be paying taxes

You wont be paying taxes anymore either.
Befriend a doctor too, and give him a silver dollar.

Southern Agrarian

Private mail carrier business

Private mail carrier business will sprout up overnight. Probably those on motorcycles.

Southern Agrarian

True

I've already run into these services in larger cities.

I suspect that drone delivery would increase enormously in popularity, as well.

OP if your are asking this, you need to do some more planning.

Network with your local people and find people there that can network elsewhere.

Lots of ways to communicate.

But first, this reminds me of the really old days on the DP when we were being hacked and blackedouts. Mike came up with an alternative site (don't recall it now) but, that was really cool. OK...carrier pigeons,
signaling devices, dead drops, anything other than electronic. Electronic with one emp will take out most electronics anyway. Imagination and cooperation will be the key. My two cents.

"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is argument of tyrants. It is the creed of slaves." William Pitt in the House of Commons November 18, 1783
"I know major allies who fund them" Gen. Dempsey

Follow Willy Sutton's advice: Go "where the money is"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willie_Sutton

Well, initially anyway, assuming you already have all your prepping needs taken care of, and have some trusted local network of preppers, r3VOL, like-minded capable people, who can cooperate through the crises, you can supplement gear by checking out 'vacant' storage facilities.

When TEOTWAWKI-level SHTF, as in absolute collapse of society with absolute no rule of 'law' situation, with no responding police or FD, state-actors will be busy taking care of their own families: opportune time to check out inventory of what govt terrorists have been stockpiling, assuming those facilities become abandoned, no?

Like "battlefield comm. gear-pickup." Of course that is not to say that they'll readily leave around useful equipment for anyone to pickup. But, guaranteed, all your local gang and cartel errand boys, and the cops and other 'emergency 1st responders' themselves who know first hand where everything was stored, would compete for the post-collapse loot: would probably be the first ones to hit govt warehouses and storage of various sorts, to later leverage for resource & 'capital' control and barter.

Beyond that, I suppose the real question to ask is, is anyone here developing an EMP-proof, local network or a small scale serialized 'darknet'?

I heard Mike Adams of naturalnews.com, who was actually, formerly a computer programmer by trade, is said to be working on a 'patriot-web' alternative.

Unless it's gonna be smaller, more local, 'daisy-chained' 'server farms,' even from what little I do know about general web-infrastructure, to have something akin to the current internet, even if a smaller version of it, it'll need to be constructed with a pretty robust architecture, which basically require a lot of capital for serverfarms, cables/fiberoptic/satellite or whatever future wireless alternative may turn out to be, and cooling/solar energy costs to run it all.

Though, the Archive.org model, may be something worth looking into replicating, as they run a pretty efficient setup with limited funds...

As for non-communications or backup web issue-related, post-collapse survival, the Lone-wolf preppers would have it the hardest, post-'collapse,' if they intend on not socializing, like ever; unless they travel light and plan to be constantly on the move, or find a corner of a world where his/her sole goal is their own personal serenity and live off the land (assuming it's not ruined via nuke fallout) you HAVE to have a community of like minded individualists who can help each other out, assuming one wishes to live in a human society where spontaneous order leads to multitudes of societies resembling some sort of a civilization of sorts, where people of various skills and interests can eventually thrive, and not be in some Mad-Max wasteland, forever.

You'll definitely need a capable cadre of individuals, especially for perimeter defenses: depending on what the nature of the collapse is, assuming your fertile soil will not be contaminated by false flagged nuclear/bio/chem debris, if you're gonna be growing food for yourself to sell, trade, or barter.

But, most likely, I'd submit that police evidence lockers would become their de facto leverage vault for their next venture: to become local warlords.

The following is from a previous reply, but IMHO, may be apt:

****************************************************************

indeed: while other factors are at play, but two words that

Submitted by AnCapMercenary on Mon, 05/20/2013 - 10:17. Permalink

Unfortunately, it seems 'all the good apples/true peace officers' have either retired in disgust, or simply 'forced' out.

my only solace is that the Fed. Res. trajectory being what it is, there is absolutely no mathematical way of staving off the coming, inevitable currency collapse, followed by a monetary reboot, thereby de facto nullifying any and all 'police force' monetary structure as we know it. though I've always maintained that should the SHTF and TEOTWAWKI truly comes, cops will become the local warlords, and their 'evidence locker' will become their bank vault.

there are only two 'professional' groups who truly know how to commit crimes daily, know how to get away with it, and with network/distribution know how to efficiently run the 'black market': criminals and cops.

the latter, because what one observes daily, and rationalizes daily compromising of morals to 'catch them, by committing equal crimes,' they inevitably become what they study, worse, what they emulate (all infiltrations and undercover work are fundamentally based on the delusional premise of "gotta commit crimes to catch criminals," it'd be the exception, not the rule, if they don't become what they purportedly abhor the most, IMO).

****************************************************************

But, beyond the initial collapse, then survival phase, like humans have done throughout history, we will spontaneously organize, and eventually direct ourselves toward thriving, doing whatever.

Then I'm sure there will be pockets of patriots who'll be busy tracking down whom they consider to be guilty culprits. Others, tending to their gardens, or teaching homesteading skills to their progeny and other... and who knows?

The entrepreneurs would leverage all the 'things' humanity have amassed, knowledge gained, pre-collapse distribution and contact networks to get things moving again.

Think the difference between any econ or societal collapse at any other time in the recorded, past human history vs. now, is the massive manufacturing capacity humans have amassed in the last 100yrs+: we've got plenty of 'stuff' around, and those who know how to build 'em, despite the recent downturn/outsourcing of manufacturing capacity in America.

So, even if we were to lose 'the grid,' considering the amount of knowledge base available, even using left over resources, my guess is, there will be pockets of America, that will power up immediately; given that there are estimated 3 million+ American preppers or those who can be identified as individuals with manual survival skills, even if 10% of that 3 million have EMP-proofed or Faraday-caged their electronics, an immediate power-reboot at small individual scale is NOT out of the realm of possibility, at all.

Given such, perhaps, even if the Grid does not become fully restored, at least 20~35% may be up and running in less than 6months to a year. I truly don't think even if some solar flare/Coronal Mass Ejection(CME) knocked out everything, don't get me wrong, while it WILL get really really really bad initially, but I cannot plausibly foresee that it'll be total "gloom and doom," in a more permanent sense, forever.

But the sad thing is, unless the collapse is due to nuke/bio/chem, if it's merely a currency collapse and all that ensues; while horrible, the only thing that would've changed one minute before, vs. one minute after the currency collapse, would be that the commonly accepted medium of exchange would cease to be, no more.

Nothing more. Nothing less.

Even post-currency collapse, every single human on earth would still retain all their knowledge, skill-set, and all the resources beneath our feet will still be around. It's just HOW we trade with each other with efficiency that would've changed.

Think that's always the most frustrating part: it's so simple if masses of people simply woke up to the Fed.Res./IMF/BIS fiat monetary bankster con, all this can literally change in an instant. All it takes is billions of people concurrently rejecting and not complying with the system.

yeah...'all' it takes, right?

So simple...yet...the crazies have put us all on a collapse path, and at this point, it truly seems the whole thing has to collapse and hit rock-bottom, clean the clock of many if not most govts (who'd be complaining? lol), for any chance of 'revival,' IMHO.

Predictions in due Time...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM

"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it's realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy." - Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul

For starters....

....Google "mesh network over wifi". Probably the most promising possibility.

Cyril's picture

Call me crazy but...

Call me crazy but I can't help to think it might be in fact among the least likely events to occur any time soon.

My intuition tells me that even - or especially - past the doorstep of a possible total bankruptcy, and/or at the height of civil unrest, with justice fallen in the abyss, and immorality and corruption become rule in every layers of the state...

the last thing the "government" will want to give up is to go on ruling no matter what, coercing and enforcing about anything, anywhere, anytime, anyhow.

I suspect they will only be obsessed with keeping their over expanded power grab by all possible means, at whatever cost, like parasites gone wild, drunk, addicted, relentlessly sucking the last bits of life out of their host.

By then, they will have probably called out and officially proclaimed as dangerous, threatening, intolerable (for them and, you know, "national security") anything that is anywhere close to involving the Constitution as we understand it and would like to see reinstated.

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

The irony of finding these

The irony of finding these groups on fb is not lost on me. But, other people are already thinking about the exact question you've posed.

https://www.facebook.com/decivilized/info

Simplicity with intent. We've experienced civilization's finest domestication, & remain unimpressed. Experiments in anarchy, permaculture, rewilding, etc.
Mission
1) Problematizing the existing system of domestication and domination.

...relentlessly questioning the pervasive mythologies of agriculture, technology, civilization, and consumer capitalism.

2) Sketching a vision of a more beautiful human life, and the conditions under which it might be possible.

...with an eye toward a life that maximizes human (and non-human species) flourishing rather than numbers and other abstract substitutes for life.

3) Living as close to the vision as possible within the corrupt current system, and resisting institutions wielding illegitimate power.
General Information
The Decivilized page is curated by multiple admins who share, like and comment as they wish... in a sometimes idiosyncratic manner. None of us agree with everything that's shared here, and neither should you.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/paleocommunity/

Applying hunter-gatherer anthropology to mind, body, and tribe. Our ancestors existed for 1+ million years in small groups with a level of equality and play that modern humans are incapable of reproducing in the context of civilization. This group aims to distill the salient features of that lifestyle and apply them in the situation known as life.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/TheMoreBeautifulWorld/

This is an open FB group that exists to facilitate the exchange of ideas around Charles Eisenstein's philosophy of a New Story. This is the place to share your ideas around gift economics, collaboration, alternative currencies, permaculture, and other "technologies of reunion" as well as social and personal transition stories, non-dual spirituality, metaphysics, new and old narratives, and so on. This is also a place to find like-minded people in your area of the world, and we encourage you to meet face-to-face, hold events, and support one another in your efforts to create a more beautiful world that our hearts know is possible.

Kool & The Gang - Celebration

Hey Mikey!

We agree! Finally!!

:-)

"What if the American people learn the truth" - Ron Paul

For cellphones there's openBTS

OpenBTS is an open-source software implementation of a GSM base station. It interacts with SIP and Asterisk, allowing you to build your own phone network. The FCC and the cellphone carriers would get really bent if you do this without a license. But in the scenarios we're talking they'll be out of service or have other problems.

A commercial version of this software is used by Range Networks to implement cellphone networks in small countries. They use the Burning Man festival as a test lab.

As of a year ago they were working on adding the data part of the cellphone service. I think they got that going, too.

It works with a software defined radio device such as Gnu Radio - about a grand worth of hobbiest hardware. (I haven't heard if anybody has figured out how to hack a smartphone into running it and acting as a base station. I figure you'd have to unsolder and "flip" the diplexer to get adequate connection to the antenna with the Tx and Rx frequencies swapped.) (I think there's also a software-defined radio USB stick that will do a passable job on at least one cellphone band.)

= = = =
"Obama’s Economists: ‘Stimulus’ Has Cost $278,000 per Job."

That means: For each job "created or saved" about five were destroyed.

Peer to Peer wireless mesh

This is a really good post MichaelMcC and in the vein as my thought so I want to attach it here.

I feel that an abusive government's first and strongest weapon against an law abiding and Constitutional public would be surveillance. Second would be in censorship and controlling the message.

Surveillance would give them the opportunity to collect evidence to prosecute us with their new rules when spied on in telephone, voice, text, web posting, etc.

They would also propagandize, censor and block our communications to control the message.

To combat this we would need non-centralized communication with trust worthy delivery algorithms.

Non-centralized means a device we can build on our own, carry or place at our discretion and not be disable-able from a central point. I picture frequency hopping wireless mesh network peer-to-peer. Wireless needs to be strong enough to connect our individual persons and strategically placed devices.

Encryption needs to be like bitcoin where we can detect if data has been copied or changed.

I think the first defense strategy would be to keep ourselves out of prison to continue to inform and defend our families and neighbors against a law breaking government.

meekandmild's picture

Breaker Breaker 1-9

---Got your ears on?

Hello neighbor, my name is

.....

"It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere".
--Voltaire

It's hard not to be a menace to society when half the population is happy on their knees. - unknown

Huh? Why get a liscence?

Just get a radio.

Get a ham radio license so that you can get to know local folks

...now and then in case of emergency, you will have a network of citizens who are in large part, very good people.

You have to have a license to legally speak. But yes, you can even just get a scanner to listen and see if you want to get a license. It's just a few weeks of study and no longer any Morse Code required. Plus you get your own, unique call sign, your own page on qrz.com, you can volunteer for local emergency clubs, etc. , go to hamfests and even spread the word about liberty, especially during slow political off seasons. It's also great family fun. It's a great way to improve your communication skills. The list goes on.

I am for peace: but when I speak, they are for war. Ps 120:7
--
Better to be divided by truth than united in error.
--
The local church(not a building -a people) is the missing link. The time to build is now.

The point is

if everything goes to shyt and society crashes then why the hell will you be worried about a license? Will you refuse to drive your car because you can't get insurance any more? Will you still pay your taxes?

Good luck

.

The point is

if everything goes to shyt and society crashes then why the hell will you be worried about a license? Will you refuse to drive your car because you can't get insurance any more? Will you still pay your taxes?

At that point

I won't be worried about any licenses.

Lol.

Last time I tried that they had me triangulated by the next morning. They called the law and gave me one chance to get my license or they would be back to take my rig. They self police this stuff, Lol.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

So, did you get a license?

lol

I am for peace: but when I speak, they are for war. Ps 120:7
--
Better to be divided by truth than united in error.
--
The local church(not a building -a people) is the missing link. The time to build is now.

Yeah, and it was back when code was required.

Yeah, I went through the hoops and studied to get my "Technicians" license. This was back when you had to know Morris code to pass it. an interesting tidbit. McCain sends code out with his eye blinks as he talks. I can read it, so I know for sure he is a no good SOB. He says one thing but blinks another,lol.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.