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FINALLY: Stefan Molyneux debates Peter Joseph of ZeitGeist Movement + Moly on Joe Rogan Show - 9/24/2013!

Zeitgeist Versus the Market - Peter Joseph Debates Stefan Molyneux

http://youtu.be/vUtv5E6CkLE
Stefan Molyneux
Published on Sep 24, 2013

Stefan Molyneux debates Peter Joseph of the Zeitgeist Movement on the nature and reality of the free market system.

For more information on Peter Joseph, The Zeitgeist Movement and the Culture In Decline series, please visit: http://www.peterjoseph.info - http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com - http://www.cultureindecline.com

The Joe Rogan Experience with Stefan Molyneux - Sep. 20, 2013

http://youtu.be/72Boihk2p8s
Stefan Molyneux
Published on Sep 24, 2013

Stefan Molyneux speaks with Joe Rogan on the Joe Rogan Experience podcast. JRE #396 - Recorded on Friday September 20th, 2013 in Toronto, Ontario, Canada.

Subjects include: media hypocrisy, wasted human potential, nature vs. nurture, epigenetics, fragmenting the central narrative, the availability of information, confirmation bias, changing the world through better parenting, daycare, single mothers, pharmaceutical drugs, why marijuana is illegal, the difference between boys and girls, memory, the corrupt financial system, connecting at a primal level, the backgrounds of MMA fighters, managing aggression, the mind/body dichotomy, making mistakes, circumcision, Joe's childhood, violence in involuntary relationships, drones, chemical weapons, accidents of birth as virtue, success through hard work, acting, stand up comedy preparation, the horrors of divorce for men, gender/intelligence, gender equality, lying to get laid, discipline and the future of mankind.

MP3: http://media.freedomainradio.com/feed/FDR_2491_Joe_Rogan_Exp...

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Hi Joe

Go to vidtomp3 and past the YouTube url into the box and click download. It takes a few seconds before you see the download link. Click the download link and the download page will appear. Click on the download MP3 button and a 205mb mp3 file will download.

Hope that helps.

“I have joined your revolution and I’m proud to be part of what you want to do.” - Ron Paul

It is sometimes difficult for

It is sometimes difficult for me to listen to two people like Stefan and PJ who like the sound of their own voices and pontificate their knowledgeable theories as if in a syntax competition with each other. An execution of tolerance was had by all.

it is a debate

In a way it is a competition.

I will agree that they were both more tolerate then usual lol

indeed,

but Moly's animated self does make it more 'consumable' though.D

Predictions in due Time...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM

"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it's realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy." - Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul

Joe Rogan + Stefan Molyneux = Minds Blown!

!!!

Predictions in due Time...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM

"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it's realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy." - Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul

I respect

JP for at least acknowledging the brokeness with what we got. I also respect that he doesn't want to use force, and wants to attract.

But..... Stefan is going to demolish him. (haven't watched yet)

It can't be done without force

That's just one problem. If you reject the possibility of force fine, but then it definitely won't work. People will figure out the scam and run away, and quick.

This is just plain old central planning collectivism with a sci-fi trappings of a magical central computer.

That computer is not your friend.

That computer certainly cannot calculate prices.

Only humans acting freely can do that, because only humans can decide, based on all available options what they prefer and in what priority. Humans don't even know from second to second what that is for themselves. It can change at any moment, with any new information.

The wealth created by a free society is just too great a force. No one will stay in a planned society, even if they have an innate attraction to being a sheep and having a 'shepherd'.

Maoists and the comintern understand this. They understand that for socialism to survive, capitalism must die a permanent death. There must not exist the option of freedom or people will choose it.

well i think JP's point is that it will take an evolution in

human behavior and altruism across the board. All the sci-fi tech stuff is secondary, and seems to be what people focus on.

Is collectivizing without force or aggression really a bad thing? Stefan has said so himself that he is not against unions or strength in numbers. He is just against unions using government or the use of force. I agree, with the current state of human nature, its not possible without force. But hypothetically, if humans stopped hating eachother, what would be so bad if a group of people decided to try this? I wouldn't care personally, as long as they don't infringe on me or others.

By in no means am I agreeing with JP's path or ideology. I am just rephrasing what I feel is the message he tries to convey.

Collectivising without force isn't a bad thing

It's just an impossible thing.

Humans don't hate each other. They do have natural tendencies however and we are evolved to husband resources. The function of collectivism is to use men as resources, and obviate cooperation.

That's not the stated goal, naturally, because no one would fall for it.

The hatred comes in with collectivism. For collectivism to succeed, some men must be perceived to have less rights than other men. For some to be masters others must be slaves. Hatred is just one tool to get men to behave this way, to justify aggression towards the target group.

People aren't hateful. People are to a lesser or greater extent avaricious. If the tools of predation exist, they will be used.

The tools for predation are guns in the hand of only a few.

The tools for cooperation are a gun in every hand.

The capitalist and anarchist insight is similar to the Christian insight.

Evil exists.

With capitalism, with freedom, evil is minimized, and is forced to work against itself.

Any other scheme is utopian, and depends on changing other men. It is not possible and will not work. The power required to make the attempt to force this change will always be used, and flow towards, those with the strongest urge for predation.

I have no problem with voluntary collectivism any more than I have a problem with the easter bunny.

I have a problem with people who claim to BELIEVE in voluntary collectivism because they are either lying, and merely want the power that happens to be required, or else they are dupes. And when the dupes see the failure of the dream of voluntary collectivism they will resort, as they must, to coercive collectivism.

If you can do it voluntarily I have no problem. I would remove the tools however for you to do it otherwise than voluntarily.

It's not that I don't trust you. It's that I do trust you to do as every would be collectiviser in history who claimed their depredations were for 'the greater good' has always done.

you are preaching to the quire

if you want a gold star for being mostly right and need validation for your beliefs, fine you get it. Trying to debate someone who agrees with you is pretty pointless. but ok, lets waste more of our time.

I will repeat, I in no way agree with PJ. Again I will repeat, I in no way agree with PJ. One more time. I IN NO WAY AGREE WITH PJ.

you don't need collectives in order to have predators....AGAIN, I agree, collectives concentrate power which attract sociopaths and make it easier for people to take advantage of others. I wouldn't be a paying member to a forum like the daily paul if i thought differently.

And sorry. some people are just full of hate. As some one just said. Evil Exists in big bold letters. Presenting a Hypothetical Situation is not that same as saying it could happen or that one agrees with it. I am just simply rephrasing what I believe what PJ is inferring. Collectivism is not evil because it is some kind of creation from satan's closet. The evil comes from us, humans. Evil Exists.....

It's choir:)

And don't be so sensitive, no disrespect was intended.

I was using the opportunity you provided to make the point for the unconvinced reader.. who might have found their way here looking for info about, and arguments for and against, the Zeitgeist movement/Venus project.

But I never said you need collectives to have predators. You need collectivism to make predation systematic.

Individual predation is dangerous, and thus rare.

To succeed in evil as a long term enterprise you need people to identify with some 'good' group and vilify some other 'bad' group. Then once the power, the mechanism or the state, to do permanent and sustained evil exists, you take control.

who is being sensative?

Choir quire, wgaf

Maybe it's you that is being overly sensitive about ZG that you have to go and debate people who already agree with you on how much they should hate ZG. And if you really care about the uninformed reader, simply start a new comment.

ditto,

check out the Joe Rogan show update: frankly, this is the interview I've been waiting to see, for a long time!

I think Adam Kokesh may have led Rogan to Moly's way...

Predictions in due Time...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM

"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it's realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy." - Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul

yeah i started it earlier

still working my way through the 3 hours.

Thanks!

Downloaded it so my wife and I can enjoy it tonight.

quite

welcome, 213!

Predictions in due Time...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM

"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it's realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy." - Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul

It's worth it

... to watch this video just to see the hilarious expressions of disbelief on Stefan's face whenever Peter Joseph says something crazy.

actually did learn something about Peter;

while I've always known that he was a music producer and did some video editing gigs, before he did the 1st Zeitgeist, but didn't know that he dabbled in equities for a bit.

Guess it only makes sense, but still a bit weird how some of the more prominent names in 'alternative' media-verse all hail from the financial sector/leaving the paper shuffling industry in disgust: from the brilliant Richard Grove at TragedyAndHope.com, Christopher Greene of Alternative Media TV (AMTVmedia.com), to Brian Rose at LondonReal.TV, Peter Joseph, and Molyneux (though he was more of a software industry entrepreneur than solely paper-shuffling per-se).

Well, suppose it's only natural: being a 'numbers person' definitely aids in investigative curiosity and logic.

glad to have them either way.

P.S. Yup. It's interesting watching the two: they both have flair for the dramatic. Not to mention: Molyneux's background IS actually IN Acting! LOL.

But the drone-monotonous voice, cadence, and intonation of Peter Joseph definitely takes a lot of patience to even bear listening to. That said, definitely, this is a good match up between philosophical polar opposites.

Hilariously/Ironically, Peter Joseph's sarcastic self-bio in the intro portion, is his actual "she doth protests too much:" that 'sarcastic' bio wasn't sarcastic at all, as that IS who he ACTUALLY is, observing the ideology he professes to uphold and exercise: the proposed dependence on a centralized supercomputer built and maintained by a class of collectivist technocrats.

Yet, personality wise, obviously aside from their driving individual philosophies, frankly, in some ways, Moly & Peter come off a lot more similar in personality to each other's, than not, IMO.

Predictions in due Time...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM

"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it's realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy." - Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul

I see similiar too

Thanks for that video. They are both needed. And I saw Peter learning some things. His tone is lower and who could out debate Stefan? I do see mutual respect even though there was some bickering.

Interesting too that Peter grew up with a mom (single?) who was a social worker and heard many stories about "child abuse". Both he and Stefan seemed passionate about turning that around and Peter more disturbed by it.

Interesting again that Obama and Clinton had little interaction with fathers.

And it seems that those growing up without balance and plenty of love end up punishing the rest of us when they force their way to the top of the heap.

thedoctorisin

updated

...

Predictions in due Time...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM

"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it's realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy." - Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul