20 votes

Whatever happened to the Ozone Hole?

Haven't heard about that in a long time. It used to be all you would hear about in the '90s. How we were doomed if we didn't solve it. So, how did that get resolved?

1. It healed itself
2. Laws were passed to force everyone to use something other than freon since the freon patent was running out and the new stuff was patented by the same company. Cha-ching! Problem solved.
3. It never was a problem. Just more BS from the Global Warming dolts.

Any guesses how the global warming thing will work out when in 20 years we look back?



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and what about the quasi biennial oscillation?

are you even sure that you should be discussing this subject?

you DO know that ozone is both being created and destroyed.

the seals are not corroded, that has to do with oxidization and ferrous metals.

do you know what rapid oxidization is?

are we having fun yet?

R-22 is an HCFC, the new gasses are HFC's.

R-22 has just recently been phased out. it is the chlorine molecule that was supposedly the "problem"
CFC's and HCFC's were heavier than air.
both are non-toxic and R-12 in particular, was incredibly non-toxic.
(asthma inhalant propellent)

yes, it is the biennial oscillation that creates the "ozone hole"
ozone is toxic and is used as a disinfectant and also for water treatment. as a flocculant

the refrigeration oil is the main difference between the old and the new gasses. refrigerants, "Freon" I call them gasses and freon is not a substance, it is a brand name. DuPont

it was the chlorine molecule that was doing the most oil return. (other than velocity) HFC's have oil return problems with mineral oil. HFC's have to use POE (Polyol Ester) it has high dielectric strength, but is also highly hygroscopic.

R-410A or "puron" is the new darling. for whatever reason, it has been shunned until now for commercial high temp refrigeration. (A/C)
it has no medium or low temp applications that I know of.

I could go on and on about the subject but was really just intending to give you more ammo, (information)

peace and rock on brother!

"knowledge is power, action is Love"

I am not sure if tamckissick is a disinfo-agent, a troll or just confused.

we talked on the phone once when he was pretending to help me with an analog to digital proportional control retrofit.

he was not able to help. he was a pretender.
I was not going to comment on this post. unlike other folks around here, I really am what I infer that I am.

Ken Griffin.
Southern Refrigeration.

You're a fraud - period.

Being nothing more than a technician, I don't expect you to understand complex scientific processes, but you're way off base here. You simply don't understand the stuff you get into discussing online. I'm not saying you're not a good technician because you do seem to know plenty of the hands on side of chillers, etc. but working with refrigerants and getting a good feel for things they do, has zero applicability to how they interact with the atmosphere all around the globe. We get that you're proud of your field but your ID says it enough so you don't have to type it out once a week. Not to mention, you crossed the line in lying about me personally.

Counter to your claim, the main difference between the CFCs and HCFCs was not "the oil". It was the hydrogen component. The different oil was a by-product of that change. The hydrogen addition made the Cl dissipate from the atmosphere faster, causing less total harm. See the lowest chart at:

http://www.afeas.org/overview.php

The rest of your info came pretty much straight from Wikipedia so you haven't really proven anything and your piling on against me (ammo) is just more petty behavior.

Suggesting that I'm either a disinfo-agent, a troll or just confused is disingenuous at best. I've called you out technically a number of times and you just turn to names and simple minded explanations on complex subjects. Maybe you are just simple minded, I don't know.

Yes, we did talk on the phone once but you mis-characterize that conversation. I offered to help you on a control project (I can't remember what you wanted to do now) and when we talked, I learned it was either not worth doing, not possible or not sensible. Either way, I was trying to say that tactfully when you informed me you were busy working on a car and didn't have time. You said you'd call or email back and then flaked out.

From here out, try to stick to what you know.

sound of crickets chirping...

whats a matter BIG boy?

shirly you can put a poor dumb technician to shame

and just what exalted platform do you stand on?

the word is "Enthalpy"

it is but ONE of the factors used for heat load calculations.

basically, within context, it means total heat content. of the ATMOSPHERE.

care to argue the validity of the points presented? or take another stab at dismissing them?

lets talk turkey about the ATMOSPHERE. I will not give you anymore answers or clues. did you mean to say Chlorine monoxide (ClO)
or do you NOT even know what that is? c'mon BIG boy.
step up to the plate.

CFC's and HCFC's use mineral oil. both have been phased out.

the new gasses are HFC's. they are all Zeotropic. (blends)
they cannot use mineral oil.

From here out, try to stick to what you know.

I can talk turkey with both master electricians and plumbers. but I am NOT an electrician or a plumber. I am also NOT a chemist. but I can converse with them as well.

what I am is a master of HVAC/R. before you even ATTEMPT to discuss the properties of our atmosphere with me.
you must first tell me what we use THIS for.

http://www.sp.uconn.edu/~mdarre/NE-127/NewFiles/psychrometri...

it can be summed up in one word.
care to try?

Hi HVAC

Ya, I knew about HCFC's being phased out, but chicken little used them in his reply so I addressed them directly. I just pointed out to him that the swap was counter-intuitive.

HCFC was the patent DuPont had in hand when they did an about-face on the CFC issue. Until they held a new patent on a new substance, they were actually participating in a PAC type group challenging the ozone theory and any sort of all-out ban was stuck in limbo up until that time. It was that about face and patent that ultimately led to the demise of their original R-12 (freon).

As an HVAC tech, I'm sure you actually either know what I said was true about the seals or have actually retro-fitted a few yourself. Dupont just added another atom or 2 to their molecule to make their product (HCFC's) a little heavier and also I imagine less stable thus making it "less damaging" overall, but as you say still contained the "chlorine" atom (The first "C" in HCFC). Of course the "C"(l) is found abundantly in nature. Seawater is loaded with it as in salt (sodium chloride). Evaporation tends to take the water and leave the salt behind but it is certainly not perfectly desalinated, especially at those temperatures. Haven't researched this particular point much yet but I think I will.

One other way nature injects massive amounts of chlorine into the atmosphere is through volcanic eruptions. The main offender is HCL (hydroCHLORIC acid). Again the claim made by chicken little and his ilk is that it is the chlorine atom that does the damage. If I want to lower the chlorine level in my pool after shocking it, I KNOW that (and all the pool experts say that) you roll off the solar cover and expose the pool to sunlight. It is the UV in the sunlight that dissipates the chlorine in my pool so... It has to be going somewhere.

This is all academic though. What's done is done. DuPont got their windfall, The whacko's got their way and everyone spent tons more money converting or buying new units. All at higher prices with a product that was less safe and certainly not necessary.

Thanks for the encouragement.

Paul

I can testify

The the Gentleman that calls himself HVAC has the knowledge and experience to State it as fact. Been dealing with him for years now as a Tech myself.

Unconstitutional War - "The story you are about to hear is true; the names and places are being changed to protect the guilty."

remind me when I should let up on tamckissick

in case I forget to.

is the guy a troll or a sockpuppet?

why did he bring up seal compatibility?

I am learning to withhold my knowledge.
nevermind, I found the answer to my query.

Awesome research!!

The combined stats that you found should convince anyone with 51% (or more) of a brain, that the 'Ozone Hole' argument is a load of bovine feces. Thank you.

"Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos!"- Homer Simpson

Luckily it got filled with

Luckily it got filled with C02 from all the output you bible thumpin, gun totting, Republican assholes' SUV's have been dumping into our atmosphere. And now it might make the Earth a little warmer which for some reason will destroy all life on Earth. Hopefully Obama can go to the UN and do something about this.

We all share this eternally evolving present moment- The past and future only exist as inconsequential mental fabrications.

Skamania is for Ron Paul 52 percent's picture

Where does NOAA take their ships to recharge their R-12?

Just a simple, harmless little question. The US and other PC countries banned it but that doesn't mean it isn't being produced and used in "developing countries" Just because you can't get good freon for your old Chevelle doesn't mean uncle Sam can't get it for his Navy. He just has to know where to pull in to port for fueling and repairs. Oh wait, that's just another crazy conspiracy theory. The ozone layer would be demolished by now if 3rd world countries like China and Mexico were still manufacturing and using CFCs.... one of the many faces of Agenda 21. It's not about saving the earth, it's about controlling people. Walk into an autozone south of the border and see if R-12 is on the shelf for a few bucks a pound. Try bringing it across the border and you'll go to jail. CFCs can't get to the ozone layer from Mexico, you know. By the way, I have no facts or proof, just hearsay so if someone knows better, please inform!

No law can give power to private persons; every law transfers power from private persons to government.
-Isabel Paterson

"The Ozone Hole" Was a Lost Episode of the X-Files

Although the concept for the show was discussed at length, the script never made it to final production for fear the public would be unable to understand the hidden meaning of the plot. Here is a excerpt of that show:

FBI special agent Fox Mulder is sitting in a chair in his basement office munching on what appears to be a slice of Swiss cheese. Agent Dana Scully opens the door, walks in and sees her partner twirling the cheese with his finger through one of the holes.

Scully: “Aren’t you a little too old to be playing with your food, Mulder?”

Mulder (ignoring the sarcasm): Scully, have you ever wondered why things in our world have holes in them?”

Scully: “Probably to put something in or take something out, I imagine.”

Mulder: “It’s because without holes, people would have nothing to complain about.”

Scully: “Huh?”

Mulder: “Yes, it’s true. Take this slice of cheese for example. If it didn’t have holes there’d be no reason to criticize the number of holes or the size of the holes in each slice. People could see with their eyes they’re getting their monies worth for each slice of cheese they bought. There’s no reason to think they’re getting gypped.”

Scully: “So what are you really getting at, Mulder?”

Mulder: “I was thinking about the environmentalists and their crusade to fill up the hole in the atmospheric ozone layer. I’ve come to the conclusion they know the hole is being caused by an extraterrestrial presence stealing the ozone for some nefarious purpose to deny the world its protection from the dangers of ultraviolet radiation. I think we need to investigate this, Scully.”

Scully: “Mulder?”

Mulder: “What, Scully?”

Scully: “I think the holes in your head have clouded your understanding of the issue.”

Mulder: “Why do you say that?”

Scully: “The whole ozone depleting hype is based on a misinterpretation of atmospheric phenomena. There has been no proof of a direct correlation between the size of the hole in the ozone layer and increases of reported skin cancers worldwide caused by UV rays. It’s nothing more than a pretext to cause panic and fear in people.”

Mulder: “So there isn’t a UV danger, after all?”

Scully: “Nope, it’s a government hoax.”

Mulder: “And aliens aren’t stealing the ozone?”

Scully: “Only in your mind, Mulder. Only in your mind.” :)

He moved to Washington with Michelle.

Don't you read the news?

ChristianAnarchist's picture

Just another dead bogeyman...

Just another dead bogeyman... RIP ozone hole. We have a new bogeyman in the form of "climate change" but oops, that one isn't so scary anymore either. We need a new one to scare the sheeple into "compliance". Hey, that "terrorist" bogeyman seems to be scary. Let's use that.

Beware the cult of "government"...
http://www.freewebs.com/christiananarchist/

Sonmi 541: "Truth is singular. Its "versions" are mistruths."

Be prepared.

http://ozonewatch.gsfc.nasa.gov/monthly/
For monthly updates of the ozone hole the above site can be educational. One curiosity about the ozone hole is that heat escapes from the earths atmosphere. This year the ozone hole is exceptionally large, but with the earth's southern tilt towards the sun it is likely that is will be reformed, although with decreased solar activity large ozone holes are expected in the years to come.
With less solar activity global cooling is expected over the next 50-100 years, so migration to the south is suggest for those living in the northern hemisphere and migration to the north for those living in the southern hemisphere. Brazil is likely to be the major bread basket of the world as food production in the United States drops.
grant

global warming... ugh

Here is a good article about the global warming fraud... There is a great graph showing the relation (or absence of correlation) between the mean temp. and CO2 levels over the past few hundred million years...

http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/01/co2_fairytales_in_glo...

proverbs 20:15
There is gold, and an abundance of jewels;
But the lips of knowledge are a more precious thing.

Naw the CFC thing was real

There were no patents on CFC's, everyone just agreed to stop using them. There were plenty of good alternatives for cleaning metals and refrigerants anyway, so it made sense.

There is still an Ozone hole, too, it just isn't growing in the same way, so it isn't considered a problem anymore.

Last, the issue of the Ozone hole is completely different than global warming. They actually could measure directly the impact of CFCs and the models were much simpler, without many assumptions. They could also do tests in the lab to verify their models.

So that one was done right.

Just another distraction from

Just another distraction from REAL environmental issues.

Generally the amount of waste humans produce - other than exhaling.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Pacific_garbage_patch
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukushima_Daiichi_nuclear_disaster
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioactive_waste
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_spill

Super bugs
GMO pollution
Genetic chimeras
Depleted uranium
etc, etc, etc...

"The United States can pay any debt it has because we can always print money to do that." — Alan Greenspan

Thank You

Whenever stupid 'Environmentalists' claim we need to save the world from Global Warming and say I dont care about the environment because I think its Bullshit, I list the things you mentioned and how they could be mitigated if we invested a tiny fraction of all the money being dumped into the Global Warming scam. The plastic patch in the ocean is horrific by the way. Also I bring up Hemp legalization because most liberals dont have any idea that that is a possibility for helping the environment that doesn’t involve Uncle Sam.

Plastics are also leeching hormone-mimicking compounds that are feminizing men and causing deformed gentiles. The "BPA Free" campaign is bullshit as well because there are countless similar polymer compounds being used, they just make one the boogieman so companies could use a sister chemical and nobody would know better.

We all share this eternally evolving present moment- The past and future only exist as inconsequential mental fabrications.

not trying to hate,

as I agree with most of the issues you listed... but oil spills are not much of concern on a global scale. There are natural oil seeps all around the world that leak much more oil than oil spills...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petroleum_seep

Offshore seeps
Main article: cold seep

"In the Gulf of Mexico, there are more than 600 natural oil seeps that leak between five and one million barrels of oil per year - roughly 4k to 200k tonnes.[32] When a petroleum seep forms underwater it may form a peculiar type of volcano known as an asphalt volcano."

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/05/090513130944.htm

proverbs 20:15
There is gold, and an abundance of jewels;
But the lips of knowledge are a more precious thing.

Right...but dumping 10-100

Right...but dumping 10-100 times that in a made-made spill in one area is bad. Mk? the ecosystem cannot cope.

Yes, oil does seep up naturally as you say, but it is not a problem because it is a relatively slow release and the system can usually adapt.

Perhaps local spills are not a 'global' concern, but they are most certainly a local one, and still qualifies as pollution. Am I wrong?

"The United States can pay any debt it has because we can always print money to do that." — Alan Greenspan

You are right.

Not wrong one bit. I was just bringing up the fact that more oil seeps naturally than is spilled. That is all. I am not saying any oil spilling or seeping is a good thing. However, it is a natural process. Obviously it is not a good thing. As I stated "Not trying to hate". I AGREE WITH YOU

PS thanks for the down vote

proverbs 20:15
There is gold, and an abundance of jewels;
But the lips of knowledge are a more precious thing.

"PS thanks for the down

"PS thanks for the down vote"

That's for diluting my point with drivel. You're most welcome.

"The United States can pay any debt it has because we can always print money to do that." — Alan Greenspan

DuPont needed a new revenue stream.

Through fascism all is possible especially when dealing with an ignorant populous.

It is hard to imagine a more stupid or more dangerous way of making decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people that pay no price for being wrong.
Thomas Sowell

Whatever happened to the ozone hole?

I think it ran for president and won.

.

.

"Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos!"- Homer Simpson

It just got bigger and bigger

It just got bigger and bigger and now writes for Jezebel.com