48 votes

For those speaking against Ted Cruz today

I fully understand what everyone is saying, he doesn't have a record yet to justify trust.

We know his ties, and power grabs are a possibility, but right now we need allies where we can take them. Stop condemning those who are helping us. If and when the time comes to oppose former allies, we will do so. You know what, if wacko bird McCain decides to help us defund Obamacare tomorrow, we shouldn't be making fun of him either, not for doing the RIGHT thing. We can go back to making fun of him as soon as the next bill comes up, as he's sure to go back to trying to screw us all over.

I don't trust Palin either, but we need her, we need the co-opted tea party and their conservative allies. I honestly think with the liberty movement, the tea party, and the conservatives, we have a real chance to win some elections in 2014 and 2016, including president if we play our cards right.

Rand has been out recruiting the "minority groups" for the Republican Party recently, and I personally think his bid for president will be based on whether or not he thinks he has the votes to pull it off, FROM these minority conversions.

While I would love a better option, we should keep in mind, a Rand/Palin ticket would bring in a HUGE majority of conservative voters, and we may want to keep it an option.

Let's keep our head in the game, while we can't trust everyone, we need allies right now, lets only bash them when they work against us please.

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I agreed with you

Until you said Rand/Palin, that would be a disaster. I have always thought somehow it would end up being Rand/kucinich but maybe it is just my way of mixing things up a bit. I have thought for a while if republicans started running as democrats for local office we could really mess things up for the establishment because honestly, when I debate folks, I turn democrats into libertarians much more often than I turn republicans.

You just got PAULED!

Common Sense is a rare commodity these days.

Unfortunately the armchair quarterbacks drown out those of us that see the vision of moving the ball forward.

Maybe they should just run for office and get off the internet.

Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
www.yaliberty.org - Young Americans for Liberty
www.ivaw.org/operation-recovery - Stop Deploying Traumatized Troops

We are not going to "get" co-opted politicians

They're going to want us to "compromise" and come over to their side. We need to stay resolute on this stuff. They are the ones who are going to have to make the concessions on all the big issues. They need to start groveling to the American people - who they're accountable to. The days of them being treated like royalty while pulling a screw job on the American public need to end. Again, THEY make the concessions. We stick to principles.

On Second thought....

Even the mention of "purity" is not a Libertarian ideal. I am now mixed up a bit. Screw that as a notion. Seriously.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

Hopeful 2016 Scenario *crosses fingers*

Rand Paul and Ted Cruz both run for president in 2016 because if they did, they might have 50%+ of the vote right out the gate, and would likely be the top 2 perceived front-runners with INSERT_RINO_HERE in a close third place. This would put tremendous pressure on other candidates to drop out.

Rand Paul and Ted Cruz control the topic and tone of the Republican debates and bully the RINO they're running against. After all the bullying of Ron Paul in the debates, we deserve this!

Once most other candidates have dropped out and election day nears, Ted Cruz drops out and endorses or becomes the running mate of Rand Paul.

Rand Paul overwhelmingly wins the youth vote due to his stance on civil liberties and the war on drugs; Libertarians and Independents who know Rand Paul is pretty good on lots of things but not perfect suck it up and vote for him anyway.

Everyone's a winner!!!

Ted Cruz

is not qualified to run for President and/or Vice President.

Some politicians will say and

Some politicians will say and even do the right thing when it doesn't matter. You'll know them for what they are when it really matters and they let you down.
The problem is that some mentally challenged people don't seem to mind that part - hence our current situation.

But you go ahead and keep voting in people that sound good and vote on crap that doesn't matter anyway.

This "filibuster" meant nothing. It changed nothing. It was priming Boobus for another fisting come next election.

"The United States can pay any debt it has because we can always print money to do that." — Alan Greenspan

Right. The difference between

Right. The difference between Rand and Cruz' filibuster is that Rand's educated Americans on important unknown issues.

Ventura 2012

Thank You.

I was going to start a similar thread yesterday but never got around to it...

I voted for Ted Cruz and am still proud of that vote. I am leaving some room for speculation because we cannot trust him until he has a solid record... His talking points I tend to agree with but we will see if he sticks to his guns... pun intended

What I am trying to say is no, we should not blindly follow/support him until he deserves it. However, there is no reason as of now to bash him or hate on him.


proverbs 20:15
There is gold, and an abundance of jewels;
But the lips of knowledge are a more precious thing.


It seems everyone wants to make the country change to Libertarian ideals over night. They will accept nothing less than another Ron Paul to support. Well this is not going to happen.

Any small move in that direction should be supported as being a good move. It will only happen in small hybrid steps like it is now. It is working, but we have to be patient and appreciate what we can get.

This past year I have seen a rise of people calling themselves "Conservatarians". We need to appreciate that this is not a dilution of Libertarian principles, but rather a slow step in the direction towards acceptance of Libertarian ideals.

"The cup is half full not half empty" and slowly moving in the direction towards full Libertarian ideals. We need to accept that it will never happen over night and support every small chip removed towards a completed sculpture.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

Hardly anything makes me angrier than views like this.

Don't you know this is how we got here in the first place? By always accepting any little step in the right direction as progress? Satan himself will give a few inches if it means it ultimately brings him closer to his goal.

Purity in the ranks is what we need! I'd rather have 10 sold out patriots over 1000 sunshine soldiers any day.

What has happened to our revolution?

Christians should not be warmongers! http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance87.html

I have a question for you?

As Christians, do we always have to take what appears to currently be the moral path? but we aren't as knowledgeable as the founding generation when it comes to the Bible, and I strongly believe this.

Can you define absolute purity?

What I mean is, we currently follow Ron's example and 1)stick to the facts, 2)don't insult, but educate...etc. I think however, it IS our job to rebuke evil where it lies(pun intended). Fight dirty and point out the corruption of our enemies!

We CAN go on the offensive now and again. The enemy wouldn't use a tactic that didn't work, so let's use their tactics! If we can take a little bit, it's better than losing a little bit.'

Well I'm rambling, but I just think we should consider all options.

Hi Anthony! Good to type at you again.

I would say, we can never have absolute 'purity in the ranks' here on earth. But, the truth triumphs differently than lies. Lies win incrementally, but the truth wins by standing firm and repeating itself over and over again. Those who want the truth will come to our side. Those who only want a little of the truth will accept the lies and will therefore never make good allies.

I certainly mean no disrespect to your post, and I agree that we shouldn't attack someone when they are doing right. I do think, however, that we should inwardly stay focused and not be fooled by someone saying or doing a couple of good things here and there.

Christians should not be warmongers! http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance87.html

Hello :) You too!

I agree with that! and I took no offense.

I had a sermon recently on Truth, that it both enlightens and distorts. People who want to hear truth, will embrace it and take comfort in it, but those who don't will come to despise it and resent hearing it. The more they hear it, they more they HATE it.

I agree the one thing that has helped the most is, when you repeat something, they learn it. They remember it, and can even repeat it, but try and talk to them about it? They will agree with you, just to end the conversation, so they don't have to hear it anymore.

This isn't changing minds, to me this is beating them down till they agree. Truth is a funny thing, only those who seek it, can see it. It's very much like God(because Truth IS God), those who do not seek Him, will never find Him, and will never understand why we stick to the faith.

I think it's important to repeat something, but every person needs to come to their own conclusion, this is why I think changing tactics from time to time is important. We need to give people different reasons to come to truth, and it takes different people to do that, even people we may not agree with can lead others to their *spark*, that ignites their hunger for truth.

That being said, I'm not against being careful, but we need to learn to take risks.

Thanks Anthony! You should come preach your sermon

at our home gathering on Sunday. :)

Christians should not be warmongers! http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance87.html

haha, i want to start preaching actually,

but I can't travel at the moment. My car is not fit to travel outside of town, having a bad month at work and property taxes are due next month, so all my money is going into making up the slack.

I'll send an email about the address again when my car is fixed. It's crossed my mind recently about attending your church one of these days.

Terrific! Not about the car and taxes, etc.,

but that you're considering coming out for a visit! We'll be praying about your situation.

Christians should not be warmongers! http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance87.html

Please read above...

Even the mention of the concept of "purity" will never be a Libertarian ideal. It makes me very wary.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

Thanks for your response.

I was using 'purity in the ranks' to say, we need allies who understand liberty, and not just those who are parroting the latest news broadcast. That was all I meant.

Christians should not be warmongers! http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance87.html

Thank you also

I need to explain that I didn't mean it as an ethnic issue, I meant it as a party-line issue. Most are willing to blindly follow party right off a cliff rather than objectively supporting good ideals coming from a differing party. This tendency to put up a firewall is part of why this Country is so messed up now. We should support good direction no matter the source.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

i agree with the "purity"

i agree with the "purity" bit, not to have it, is to invite their most potent manipulation.......basically what we've been dealing them the last couple of years using the internet......pointing out their hypocrasy with TRUTH........dont have to lie, just have to lay out the truth........that is ONE off, the importances of "purity".....to achieve it, AND to KEEP it

I dont like compromises, but to be more flexible, i might consider win/win scenarios.......something nobody ever seems to put on the table, seing as they always go for their first offering, and stupidly get in the habit of thinking there should only be ONE offering of an action, which basically says they make NO leeway for objections, its, this way or the highway, which this attitude is basically the cusp of why people oppose them......

Anyway, that is all, well not really, but my minds contemplating too many things, all together, that ill either be here the next hour writing them down, or ill give my self a brain fart trying to remember the exact phrases and topics going a million miles per hour in my mind......poor fingers, dont think they can keep up with my 5 second memory :)

I dunno, 1cont, I am NOT a

I dunno, 1cont, I am NOT a Libertarian, myself. I am a Constitutional Republican, and tend towards (tho not of) the Tea Party. I am a strong supporter of Ron, although I do NOT agree with every one of his beliefs, nor that of Republicans. I truly think you need to think about the good things that come from a "bigger tent". I support the OP's message.

I am also a member of the Republican Party, and I'm glad if

anyone in it espouses truth. I will not be bashing Cruz today, but I will sit back and watch without getting excited--knowing that politicians are ALMOST always liars. Two steps forward, one step back has always been the strategy of enemies of truth.

See my comment below for more.

Christians should not be warmongers! http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance87.html

Got to where exactly?

"Don't you know this is how we got here in the first place?" Let's assess that. Where is the Libertarian Party? Where are the Representatives? What power or influence does it have on it's own? Unfortunately to my dismay it has very little and will be this way for a long time to come unless we realize it has to take a step in between on it's way to purity. This Country does not have to time to wait for this to happen, this next election looks to be our last free election.

Are you really willing to sacrifice total loss of freedom rather than temporarily accept and support another party that is starting to lean in the right direction? "IT IS LIBERTARIAN IDEALS DILUTING THEIR IDEALS, NOT THEIR IDEALS DILUTING OURS". In reality it is a positive move in the right direction, It is a step in the change towards pure Libertarian ideals and should be recognized and supported as such. We need to see the good in everything. I see Conservatives starting to support Libertarian ideals as a good thing. I am not going to say that they don't deserve to and block a move in the right direction for our country as a whole.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

I'm not referring to where the Libertarian party is, but rather

our nation.

We here on the DP used to understand that everything the media says is a LIE. Now, they are feeding us the "look how many people are coming closer to our beliefs" lie and we are lapping it up like dogs.

I truly wish that what you are saying were true, but history has shown us repeatedly that it is not. In fact, I remember that during the last election, the neocons said something just like, "Are you really willing to sacrifice total loss of freedom rather than temporarily accept and support another party that is starting to lean in the right direction?" whilst trying to convince me to vote for Mitt Romney. I also remember being told it was probably our last free election. If a Rand Paul/Sarah Palin ticket is what TPTB give us, then, I've got news for you---It is not a free election! We are getting the 'lesser of two evils' that they want us to have.

Christians should not be warmongers! http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance87.html

I respect your view here

But yes I have been on Twitter and seen the change. Even with the Senators and Congressmen I talk to there all the time. There is a fair wind blowing and we need to trim the sheets to take full advantage of this fair wind. Please do not chart an ill direction.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

"What has happened to our revolution?"

Some of us continue to tow the line :-)

"What if the American people learn the truth" - Ron Paul

Remember OP, the feds have paid trolls.

They are EVERYWHERE where opposition to the establishment exist. Even here.

The problem with that

is that all someone has to do is cry 'troll' whenever someone disagrees with another for expressing an unpopular opinion to stifle debate, and the fact that the accusation is unfounded the vast majority of the time.

I've said it before, but 'trolling' is the online version of 'terr'ism'. Both words originally described tactics, then 'bad people' then entire ideologies, and now they've become shorthand for "I don't like what you said but have no idea how to refute it." It reminds me of the 'privilege' card progressives like to play whenever their views are criticized by anyone. It's feelings over facts.

Yeah, there are paid bloggers who attempt to sway opinion and derail topics but plenty of regular Joes that that too, and even people with an honest disagreement end up being labelled 'trolls' sooner or later. The circle-jerking that goes on whenever someone brings up trolls/shills/cointelpro is a bit discouraging to me, because it reminds me that the few political websites that aren't echo chambers, strive to be.

I hope you don't take this as me saying you overuse the 'troll' label, just pointing out the consequences that come with labeling perceived opponents too quickly.

A signature used to be here!

"we need allies"

...but we don't need an ineligible suspect senator hijacking and demagoguing the causes of liberty in an attempt to control the direction and effectiveness of our movement. If we allow the media to build cruz into this pro liberty rino/obama slayer we have effectively lost control of the issues that are important to us and allowed the msm to affix a face and leader to our cause, much like they have done w Palin. Look what they did to the tea party that started here. Wake up people.