16 votes

Maybe we should alter our tactics a bit...

It is my understanding that for a good number of people who come to the DP and utilize the information at hand, they see everything going on in the U.S as "Liberty vs. Tyranny." I mean once you boil everything down and condense all of the issues and arguments, the foundation of our fight is Liberty vs. Tyranny.

Rather than encourage people to endorse and vote for candidates like Ron Paul, maybe just keep politics completely out of it when trying to create a convert?

Let's encourage people to research the history (and make it clear that establishment sources are not going to reflect the truth in any meaningful way) of money, banks/banksters, and the deaths/murders/rapes/pillaging caused by governments in collusion with banks and other special interests.

If we can get people just to do a little digging and point them in the right direction for their sources, (Mises/Hayek/Rothbard etc.) more than likely they will end up following a path that leads them to candidates like Ron Paul.

I doubt this is an original idea and if there have already been posts about this, my apologies. I think leaving politics out of it is the route I'm going to take from here on out.

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reminds me of that

give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day, teach a man to fish and he'll feed the whole village or something.

Great point. And the truth is we don't need leaders, change isn't going to come from voting, change will come when we accept responsibility for loosing our freedom and stand up and accept the responsibility of being free.

Too much Groupthink.

"Let's" ... "we" ... "get people to" ...

Go for it! Do whatever you feel like doing! Go ahead and encourage people in your own way! Continue to exhort! Whatever floats your boat! Liberty, after all, means "freedom," and that means do what you want to do.

The shortest path to individual liberty is for individual people (i.e., you, me, the NSA agent reading this, and so on) to simply Be Free.

Freedom is my Worship Word!

This, this, a thousand times

This, this, a thousand times this.

News in Present Time

I look to DP for news links. I don't need history lessons. I can look to Ron Paul's books or websites or similar minded places for that.

If DP dilutes the news too much with history lessons, I will unsubscribe.

Don't See a Problem the Way DP is Now

Actually I like DP just as it is. For me it is all about politics. And I already do whatever research I feel is necessary for me. I do it elsewhere.

My interest in DP is the news articles that are posted. I don't think I would use DP for research. I would use my own sources & searches. If DP comes up on those searches, fine.

But I don't see a problem with DP the way it is. Let's not try & fix things that aren't broke. That's what the government does, and look what we end up with.

I don't think silk30 was talking about the DP itself

but rather DP users who tend to put a political slant on subjects that shouldn't be politicized. It's hard to talk about freedom one second, then turn around and say "now go join X party and vote for Y". Most people are more focused on labels than arguments, so taking labels out of the equation (when possible) makes conversation that much easier.

That's what I read out of it anyway.

edit: typo

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Bamobo, your take on what I was saying is spot on. Ty for offering that clarification :)


I've always used this

I've always used this approach. I focus on interesting education, one issue at a time. LearnLiberty videos are awesome to show people. After they are resonably converted, I might give them a quiz that will place them with a politition I want them to vote for.

This quiz is almost perfect to test ideology (doesn't include immigration or victimless crime like drugs which are areas of contention between purist libertarians and purist conservatives):


Well said......

It's kinda like the ole addage that "people react better when it's their idea," kinda thing.

Otherwise, for some reason, when it comes to talking politics, people think you are trying to tell them what to think.

It's like you are talking to a dead light bulb.....

Click it on.

Because: Some animals are more equal than other animals. -Animal Farm-

What the? > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MTIwY3_-ks

Michael Nystrom's picture

Hear hear!

Michael Nystrom's picture

Just to elaborate a bit...

We all saw how Ron Paul fared in his noble attempts. In retrospect, I don't think he was ever running to win, just to show.

Show what a corrupt system it is, how corrupted people's minds are.

Everyone here at the DP got a good, up-close, front row view of that.

How do you change that? Some people think you can maneuver through the thicket of corruption, make your way to the top of the heap, and things will be better.

That is the voting & lobbying model. Vote for people, lobby that they take up your cause.

In the end, I agree with Octobox that voting and lobbying is just a form of willingly giving your power away.

My views have evolved as a result of my tenure here at the DP.

So what is the other way? My preferred method is to change society. If you have a just and moral society, the politicians will reflect that. At that point, you don't need to vote or lobby. The snakes will slither back into their holes.

But change society! Nystrom, you're talking crazy talk. That is impossible! It is so big! Such a gargantuan task! It will take forever.

True enough. But so is picking one politician and hoping and praying that you can contribute to him winning the presidency and changing the world on your behalf.

I had friends up here in MA who were HUGE Obama supporters. It just comes with the territory. And I watched as they slowly became disillusioned, as he climbed up in popularity, as bit by bit he sold out.

I saw that movie. There is no need for me to live it.

And that is why you start with what you can control, and the only thing you can control is yourself. Here's a blast from the past - a post so old it won't bump. Written by me at the dawn of the DP - Node #33, written on March 1, 2007: Change yourself and eventually you change the world.

It might even happen faster than you think.

That is...

...the key for sure. As we let Love and truth work their magic and effect change in our own hearts and minds, that will overflow into the lives of others around us. Take the planks out of our own eyes before removing the specks in our brothers' and sisters' eyes. They'll sense the change in us, see the good fruit of our actions and be more interested in changing themselves as well. Eventually the rising tide of goodness within the People, God willing, can burst through or spill over even the walls of corruption we have allowed our leaders to erect.

Asimov's Foudation trilogy

It's quite Rothbardian. In his story the force of society and the heroics of one man against societal pressures plays out.

Are we having a Seldon Crisis?

Free includes debt-free!


I have to disagree with you that having a just and moral society automatically means politicians will reflect that. I think that's actually the problem. People imagined our politicians had our best interests at heart, because we see ourselves as good people. I think 99% of the people at the DP would make better politicians than what we currently have (minus the superstars like RP, Amash, etc.)

The problem is the "good" people got busy just trying to live good lives and left the wheel of the car. It didn't happen overnight, but gradually our system slid further and further toward corruption, waste, fraud, and tyranny. I think it was a combination of things that made this possible. First, people took their eye off the ball as I said. Second, unsound inflationary money allowed politicians to paint a rosy picture of everything, economics, jobs etc., while people got taxed invisibly (with inflation). Both of these items are being rectified IMO. People are waking up, and the dollar will be toast soon so we can return (peacefully hopefully) to sound money.

If we had a truly just and moral society

we wouldn't have politicians. We don't need this centralized governing system at all and in fact it presents a great danger to have it all. There are other ways to format an advanced society if the people are just, moral and knowledgeable of real law. The technology software tools we have now presents an opportunity like no other time in history to rethink everything. If we understand real law we can self-organize a plurality of competing services based on technology intelligence organization tools and make all policy completely transparent, decided by the people the policy impacts and make operational around a software backbone with its only goal being to optimize the process of Justice, enable resource allocation based on statistical metrics of real time operational data, and organized process wizards to determine locals to develop new infrastructure implementation.

We don't need Government if we are just and moral people.

The most powerful Law of Nature is Time. It is finite and we all will run out of it. Use this Law to your advantage, for it offers you infinite possibilities...

Part of...

...'goodness' in a people is being alert to that which degrades it. So combatting a lapse in that aspect of 'goodness' within ourselves will help spread such alertness to others.

Wise as serpents; innocent as doves...

This movement has inspired the

average joe to get involved.

I've never been to a republican event until Ron Paul ran.

Interesting how a very few corrupt people can make decisions for everyone else.

That is ending.

I am..

just like you. Before RP, if anyone had come to me talking about monetary policy, golden rule foreign policy, rule of law et et, I would have had a glazed look on my face...but I would have been curious.

People, in general, are just way too ignorant and apathetic to what is actually happening in this country and across the world. I was definitely one of them. And we keep falling into the same old trap of trying to change things federally/nationally.

Let's just stick to the local stuff and work our way upwards. It truly is a lack of education and understanding. I know I hate nothing more than someone proving me to be an ignorant fool who has zero foundation for making any coherent, rational, true argument for or against anything. It's shaming, at least to me.

So maybe we should aim at providing that information/education, minus the politics, and shame people into caring. Thanks to Ron Paul, it worked for me and I think many others.


"Let's just stick to the local stuff and work our way upwards."

100% agreement here.

Personally I despise all political parties and most movements, though I held my nose for Dr. Paul last year. It's hard to take a political 'side', because then you're judged by which labels you wear rather than the arguments or ideas you present. It's an unnecessary barrier that once put up, is difficult to take down.

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