50 votes

“Yes We Can” Defund Obamacare by Not Complying and Refusing to Buy Overpriced Poor Insurance Plans

Yes we can withdraw our consent to comply with Obamacare. If we the people in mass say “no” we will not buy nor comply with this law that destroys lives and ruins the nation. Yes we can defeat Obamacare” Just say no”. To comply with this law is suicide and insane. We do not have to do the will of Obama. Let use Obama’s slogans against him. I say”Yes we can” tell Obamacare to go to hell. Do you agree?

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There are only two ways to avoid going to prison.

Comply with this unconstitutional law or die fighting it. You can bite the boot on your neck or you can lick it.

They rely on our fear to keep us in compliance. We have to make the decision to deny them that advantage. Like I said this is where we separate the men from the boys.

I hope you have peace of mind no matter how you choose to deal with it. In all fairness the third possibility is that you will loose everything and be forced to live in the streets if you do not comply.

If nothing else I hope now everyone can see how we have gotten to the unconstitutional state we are in now, the fears that previous generations have endured via government threat and why the buck must stop here.

If you want to go to jail

Fine if it's that important to you. I'll send you a cake with a file. But paying this "tax" in my mind does not constitute "licking the boot on your neck".

It will take something more pressing to me to desert my family no matter how "unconstitutional " - your opinion- this alleged tax may be. Using your standard there are probably hundreds of "unconstitutional" laws and/or court decisions, The NDAA for example is far more destructive. Why this one.

Thetis

Yes hundreds of them and you will not

resist any of them.

And don't tell me that NDAA is worse because as long as YOU refuse to resist tyranny as you suggest then you have no worries and nothing to complain about. You must feel a certain amount of bliss knowing that. :-)

Why this one? Because this is the only legislation ever passed that mandates the purchase of a product simply because you exist. And not just any product but one that gets to the core of personal liberty and religious freedom. If that is not worth fighting for then nothing is.

How do you know

How do you know what I will and will not "resist"? Let's see, there was Vietnam/Cambodia that I didnt resist by being part of the May Day action in '71 to shut down the government There was the Progressive Magazine case of prior restraint of the press which I didn't resist by going to Los Alamos Scientific Labrotory's library to unearth the documents that blew the government's case out of the water in '79. I acquiesced to unconstitutional laws by litigating three ballot access cases eventually decided by the Supreme Court in the 80's. I really wussed out by serving 4 terms on the LNC and helping recruit Ron Paul in '88. Since then I have really slacked off by raising a disabled child without any guvment help and only converted a couple of dozen tax paying citizens to the cause of liberty while helping out on ballot drives and the Johnson campaign.

I know none of the above is but a pale reflection of the heroism required to refuse a 1% tax to proudly remain without health insurance. I just hope you don't break a leg.

Thetis

Correct

No government has the right to force an individual to purchase a product, and to think that somehow ACA will fade away (like the income tax, Social Security mandate, etc) is delusionary.

The critical factor for many including myself is that the fiscal demands now impinge on survival/('let them eat cake'), and I do not speak of this lightly.

See you patriots on the front lines of defense

In all seriousness.

We may fight the same battle but we will most likely have to fight it alone. When they come to my house I don't expect anyone will come to my aide and in loneliness I will face my enemy. But in the back of my mind I will always have the hope that my resistance will embolden others to stand their ground when their time comes as well.

The front line will be our front doors.

>

Tragic, indeed since I don't believe any conscientious patriot wishes for such conflict but IMO and at some point, disobedience to unjust law becomes a morally dutiful act.

Those who are aware of the potential costs I believe also realize the solitude of their principled position, while I do believe you are correct that others with less commitment to such a public 'profile' can follow bravery's lead.

Let us hope for the best, indeed

Religious exemption

The only religious exemption I could find is for a "religious cooperative" or "medical-sharing ministry."

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100935430
http://health.wusf.usf.edu/post/religious-alternative-obamac...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_sharing_ministry

I only found three such organizations, but it's an officially recognized way of opting out of Obamacare. If anyone is in agreement with any of the groups that already have approval it might be something worth looking into.

The obvious question is what it would take to get a new group approved under that exception. It turns out that you can't start up the Church Of Leave Us The Frack Alone which collects a dollar a year from its members, and get the IRS to approve it. In fact it sounds like it would have to be a church that's been around at least since 1999, and has had this kind of arrangement with its members that long. But there might be other churches out there that have done such things, and could take advantage of this exception, so maybe it's worth mentioning.

Actually there's another exception for religious groups defined in 1402(g)(1) of the IRS code but I think that's a special exemption for the Amish and a few others. It only applies to groups that have been around at least since 1950, among other things.

Thank YOU. You just bolstered my 1st Amendment argument

against this ridiculous legislation.

"Congress shall make no law RESPECTING THE ESTABLISHMENT OF A RELIGION, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

Who the hell are they to say that my religious beliefs are any less valid than anyone else's? This makes me so mad I could spit!!!! ARG!!!!

They cannot discriminate between religions and they cannot deny the validity of a religion based on ideological differences. My beliefs are mine and they have no right nor the power to force my compliance to theirs or anyone else's.

Obamacare is a travesty

But why all the hyperventalation about "tipping points" to revolution, etc.? Rather than spend all the time and energy why not just let it fail on its own merits. You don't have to organize massive resistance the whole plan is so ill conceived many, how many I don't know, millions perhaps will simply not comply - not because of ideological reasons but simply inability or unwillingness to navigate the system. Cost is also a factor. A neighbor was visiting last night: single woman age 59 uninsured and in good health. Totally apolitical but not dumb. She was very concerned about the cost as well as resentful of the manditory provisions of the law and would probably not sign up. Another friend, single male 59 actually could use health insurance but make such little money, overall, that there is no way he could pay for it, subsidy or not, and still pay the rent. He also has zero ability to use the Internet and is very paranoid about privacy in general and the government in particular. I tease him about getting his Obamacare - or else.

The hyperventalation in rhetoric is generally a turn off to most people - death panels, nazi Germany in the 40s (sic) etc. me included. Although I agree with most if not all of the criticisms - govt mandates, subsidization of health insurance companies etc. I have a hard time getting worked up about it given a lack of valid alternatives. Give it a couple of years and it will fail of its own accord. In the meantime I suggest our time would be better spent coming up with a better idea.

Thetis

delete

.

>

1) What happens if you decide to oppose theft on principle and/or fiscal practicality and armed IRS goons show up at your door?

2) What happens if ACA doesn't fail but actually distorts the economy even more and a new law is made which calls for seizing retirement accounts?

3) FYI a new political Party has started which advocates abolishing mandates and taxation

http://facebook.com/FreeDominionPoliticalParty

National organization

Rather than assaulting would be partners we need to create a national social action organization that can create a resistance plan of attack. Instead of talking about things that piss us off we should be acting with boycotts, media incursions, and civil disobedience. At the same time, liberty-minded states should be nullifying anything they can.

These past two weeks have showed us where our friends are and clearly revealed our enemies. We have the Ron Paul Constitutional Conservatives, the Paleos in the Pat Buchanan camp, and the talk radio grass toots conservatives coming together to oppose the statists and stand patters in both parties. We may not like talk radio but they are clearly now standing for liberty and the constitution. Politically speaking this is Ron Paul/Pat Buchanan/Rush Limbaugh against John McCain/Barack Obama. At the same time, we have the support of some socialists on the civil liberties front because of the NSA and war abuses. Our coalition is strong and it is time to activate a national strategy to oppose the abuses of the state.

This plan

has no color

Don't feed the pandas. Ever.

and when considering

debt ceiling.....

Don't feed the pandas. Ever.

We need to do an all

out assault on the right wing radio shows, especailly our local hosts, pushing Nulification and states rights. We need to forget about the Feds, as we have seen a few Liberty minded Senators can't do anything against the Bankster controlled collectivts! We need to talk about the Virginia and Kentucky Resolutions created by Jefferson and Madison. If these hacks rebute you, tell them I guess those two Founders didn't know anything about how the Constitution was supposed to operate? Tell them we need to quit talking about the Corporate Collectivists in Washington, because they don't care about the American people, they only desire to make their masters rich. We don't have time to forment Federalist positions posed by statists like Mark Levin. If they rebuke you on this statement, tell them supporting useless wars of aggression, and tyrannical Bolshevik bills like the Patriot Act is indeed statism, no matter how you try to spin it. The only way to stop Big Government Corporatism is to force your state officials to stand their ground using the Nulification proxy created by Jefferson and Madison, period! This left vs right, conservative vs liberal/progressive, Repub vs Dem, is BS, because they are working together as seen by the stance taken in the Senate, and usually in the House. Don't just bicker on this site or others, call into the radio and tell the masses how to defeat this creature of the Corporate/Wall St/Bankster scheme to force us all into serfdom. It's not distribution of wealth from the rich to the poor, it's distrubution from the poor and middle class to the ruling rich.

insurence = insurance

I tried to resist but couldn't. Nobody is perfect.

Get real cover for health.

Only one kind of government health care: free vitamins, minerals, marijuana, repair of broken bones, and health professional consultations that are prohibited from recommending any artificial drugs. This covered by a health tax. Anything else, seek private insurance or pay for up front. They government is not our nanny, not our father, not our granny.

You really don't get this

You really don't get this liberty thing at all, do you?

"In reality, the Constitution itself is incapable of achieving what we would like in limiting government power, no matter how well written."

~ Ron Paul, End the Fed

The price of vitamins would

The price of vitamins would skyrocket. Vitamin prices are reasonable right now.

The quality of care for injuries would plummet. If the govt doesn't pay doctors enough, or if there is a temporary govt shutdown, there will be waiting lists and death panels.

When the government has a monopoly on anything, it always leads to massive costs and ridiculous bureaucracies, and often a worse product than the free market could provide for cheaper.

Here's a few thoughts...

on how the free market could do such a better job on health care.

I was delighted that my employer just recently set up a high deductible plan with a Health Savings Account option.

Imagine at age 48 how much money I could have had stashed away into a tax free account if I hadn't had to pay into all the alphabet soup agency taxes going back to 1983 when I graduated high school. And if we stay healthy, imagine how much money would be in that account that we could pass along to our children or donate to free care health funds for those in need.

But what about those with pre-existing conditions? How about private foundations that could take tax free donations? How about a private gambling/lottery foundation?

View Obamacare As a Tax

Until sanity is restored to the US Supreme Court and the US Congress, I agree that this method should be used strategically. Obamacare is actually a massive tax masquerading as health care. Choose your battles carefully. I'll pay the tax until Obamacare can be repealed as I have greater battles to wage.

Don't forget the 14th amendment and the idea of

equity. Even if Obamacare exists then everyone should be treated the same with none of these exemptions. There should not be special treatment of any kind for congress, for carve-outs and so forth. Obama himself should have to be under it. If companies do no have to comply then neither should the people.

SequoiaTrees4RonPaul

fireant's picture

If they start honoring "Equal protection of the law",

they'd have to throw out 90% of the whole U.S. Code.
Not such a bad idea! :)

Undo what Wilson did

YES!!! Concurrent, Simultaneous, MASSIVE Non-Compliance =

the only true peaceful remedy for all the current insanity facing us.

Non-Compliance, against EVERYTHING the State/the Leviathan deludes it has the 'power' to do so.

most def.

Predictions in due Time...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM

"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it's realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy." - Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul

How does not complying "defund" Obamacare?

If you would have been subsidized, isn't opting out the best thing you can do for Obamacare? If you bought a compliant plan, Obamacare gives money to the insurance company to cover the subsidized part. By opting out, you're saving that expense for them *even if you don't pay the fine*. If you do pay the fine then not only did you save them the cost of the subsidy, you sent them some money to help cover someone else. It's hard to call that an effective protest.

If you would not have been subsidized, and you opt out then even if you don't pay the fine, you haven't cost them anything or gained them anything. If you do pay the fine then again, as far as the government part of it is concerned you've helped more than you've hurt.

What exactly is it that's going to make this opt-out protest effective?

By opting out, u raise the risk profile for the ins. Companies

All those with pre existing conditions sign up. Payouts go up. Everything becomes even more unaffordable. More opt out, etc.

However, the penalty tax is scheduled to go up. And they can raise it as high as necessary to make joining up the only economically feasable option. However, that can work both ways. Future congresses could, through legislation, reduce the tax penalty.

Total non compliance means tax evasion. That means prison.

Initially,, it is best simply to pay the tax. Later, that might not be possible.

One thing is certain. This all leads to further economic deterioration.

Agreed

I posted that below also. Depending on the demographics of the people who opt out [refuse to comply], it very well could raise the risk profile, so that the private insurance companies lose money (since their rates are set based on assumptions about compliance), so that they have to raise their rates, so that more people opt out, etc.

It's not as simple as just having a large number opt out though. If the group opting out is average overall, then it doesn't change the risk pool. On the other hand, the people who will want to opt out will tend to be people who get the least subsidy and who need the least health care. So there should be some skewing there.

If that's what "defunding" means, then yeah, it could work. I think it would take quite a few years to become noticeable though. And as you say the penalty goes up pretty steeply, so that by the time it could start impacting the insurance companies the penalties might be enough incentive, and enough funding, to keep things going even longer.

But this is my fear

Once you have all the pre existing people on the insurance rolls, how do you ever undo it?

And the govt can't afford to keep it going.

And the politicians don't have the courage to reverse it.

This is why some believe it will never unravel on its own.

The only end game is economic collapse. That's what the billions of rounds of ammo, the paramilitary groups for every gov department and the militarization of the police is about. And this all explains Harry Reid's bellicose attacks on "the tea party", which is code for any who oppose big government. He is already preparing to put down an insurrection of a desperately impoverished people.

But how close is that endgame?

When I look at how much further Europe has gone, and look at how many more tricks they could pull -- such as what Poland did recently, vanishing debt by taking over retirement accounts -- that they haven't even started trying yet, I don't think we're really that close. Could be, but I doubt it.

The neocons always want a war, and a big war that got Americans really scared (a war against a tangible enemy, not "war on terror" or intervention in foreign countries) would provide a lot of cover for all kinds of drastic steps. When they get worried about not being able to sustain things otherwise, I predict we'll see tensions rapidly escalating with some country, and looming threats of war if not actual war. But then I'm more cynical than most.