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Is supporting Democracy TREASON? or is it just a criminal offense?

did I offend you by asking this simple question?

is this what I need?



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Stupidity is the law of the land (now days)

To answer your question I think it depends on what answer your looking for:

The Correct Answer.... The united states is a Republic not a Democracy!
The Establishment's Answer - Stupidity is the law of the land.

____

"Take hold of the future or the future will take hold of you." -- Patrick Dixon

Perchance my keyboard needs a breathalyzer installed?

but, somehow, giving my computer a blowjob before posting just seems SO wrong....

forth-with I shall try to make amends.....

We are a Republic

Why does everyone think we are a Democracy. I wonder if the same people listen to too many Obama speeches. He doesn't seem to realize it either.

"And to the Republic, for which it stands"

I prefer to say "for which we stand"

lots of tards

is the likely answer

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

My bad?

just curious....

peace

Ok, I'll bite!

The following is just my opinion from a strict constructionist view of the Constitution.

Claim: Any American citizen who actively supports changing these united States of America from a Republic to a Democracy, without amending the Constitution, is guilty of treason.

Grounds in support of claim: Article 4 section 4 of the Constitution guarantees to every state in the union a Republican form of government.

Warrants: What warrants the grounds to my claim is evidence that a rebellion has already taken place, and the people went along with it in the 1930's, without defending the Constitution from this rebellion. Article 3 Section 3 states that "Treason against the United States shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort." If people are attempting to transform our country from a Republic into a Democracy without amending the Constitution, then they are levying war against it. Maybe It's not a shooting war, but certainly at minimum it is a form of social warfare, just like purposefully allowing people from more socialist countries to flood across our borders in hopes of gaining citizenship through amnesty, resulting in a Democratic party that can more easily dominate all elections and win and hold all 3 branches of government without challenge at best, La Reconquista at worst. Levying war against the Constitution, attempting to subvert it, even if it's social warfare and non violent, is still committing treason. Those who support this effort by joining political parties in furtherance of this goal, and/or donate money towards organizations who further this goal, are lending aid and comfort to the enemies of the Constitution, and are also guilty of treason. This is why I believe that we can better maintain the moral high ground in our revolution by remaining "Dedicated to restoring Constitutional government to the United States of America" just like it says at the top of the Daily Paul! (Thank you Michael for keeping that mission statement intact after all these years! It's what reminds me that Constitutionalists are welcome here too. I hope Libertarians know we are pro-liberty too, well, I am at least!)

Backing in support of warrants: Please see the Dodd Report to the Reece Committee on Foundations, pg. 6, which states "These original studies of "the public interest" disclosed that during the four years, 1933 - 1936, a change took place which was so drastic as to constitute a "revolution". They also indicated conclusively that the responsibility for the economic welfare of the American people had been transferred heavily to the Executive Branch of the Federal Government; that a corresponding change in education had taken place from an impetus outside of the local community, and that this "revolution" had occurred without violence and with the full consent of an overwhelming majority of the electorate."

http://www.scribd.com/doc/3768227/Dodd-Report-to-the-Reece-C...

Also see a DP thread on this topic:
http://www.dailypaul.com/89427/1954-dodd-report-to-reece-com...

----------------

Ok, there you have it. I did the best I could. I'm sure someone smarter than I can help pick it apart and point out any fallacies or red herrings or anything like that. I also want to point out that the Dodd Report calls this a "revolution". I believe the word "rebellion" more accurately describes this, but that is only my opinion, and yeah, I am probably resorting to semantics, lol!

For the record, I got a D in Elementary Reasoning, mainly because back when I took it in the '90's it was my 1st class in the morning, so my attendance wasn't good, however, I really did like the class, and I sincerely tried to learn as much as I could on structuring arguments. I did good in my assignments, but poor attendance killed my grade. I'm not sure that I'm doing it right though and I request constructive criticism from my DP peers more knowledgeable than I. My hope is to learn from you how to do a better job of making a water-tight argument.

Thanks for reading my long reply. I hope that I gave a good shot at answering your question HVACtech.

Kelldor

P.S. No, I don't think anyone should be offended. Every individual is responsible for their own emotional well being and if either of our posts offends someone then that's on them and they should seek help from a professional for their emotional problems. No, I do not believe you deserve 30 days in the hole.

However, our Republic is dying. I want to stop this from happening. If each of us as individuals choose to join together to "Rise Up to Define Freedom", yes, we may die, but what life, I ask you, is worth living if it's lived without liberty and only in tyranny?

http://youtu.be/aduwaqU7DfA

when people do not understand the basic fundamentals.

they will bring a hockey stick to a baseball game every time.

I agree that the question is an over simplification.

I explain it to people this way.
the Greeks invented democracy, it is one man, one vote. majority rules.
the problem with this is. that if you allow the people to vote on ANYTHING... they will.
they will vote themselves free houses, cars etc. until they break the bank.
it is a really just a simple flaw in human nature.
the Romans came along and said hey! this democracy is great stuff! but we REALLY have to put a few rules on it.
this is how the "rule of law" was born.

it is the rule of law that separates a democracy from a republic.

asking the question is a simple and fast way to find out who you are talking with.

but I have only been playing around with this approach for a few days now. the reactions that I get to the question? wow.

this is my very first revolution. and I have made a LOT of mistakes.
personally, I don't think it is treason or criminal. nope. it is JUST PLAIN STUPID!!!!!!!

back in 07, I would cringe every time that Ron Paul himself would speak of democracy in positive terms.
just to be clear, I do ardently support and in fact insist on the democratic process being incorporated within our republic.

peace

I do that "cringing" too sometimes

I do that "cringing" too sometimes when Ron Paul or anyone speaks of democracy in positive terms. Most of the time it's someone that doesn't know any better, and is just regurgitating their indoctrination. When Ron and Rand do it though, they are more talking down to their level using words they understand and like, as a means to deflect the interviewers hostile question. In that case, I chuckle!

As well, I support the democratic process, and demand it be used correctly without corruption of the vote totals in all of our elections, and conventions. There's a difference between supporting the use of the democratic process where appropriate, and supporting democracy, as you well know.

My hope was that by attempting to make the argument that to subvert the Constitution in order to change us from a Republic to a Democracy is to commit treason, I could get some practice in, and learn from others here how to better frame arguments. I'm not attempting to sway anyone's opinion, and in fact, I am interested in fundamentals. I like learning. Your example is really good. It's short and effective. Your claims regarding the Romans, Greeks, and rule of law are common knowledge, so there is no need to cite sources. Your argument is much cleaner and stronger, but I'm not really getting anything constructive, format-wise/structure/framing, that is. Thx for the reply HVACtech, however I think you could have left out the opening jab. :)

Peace to you as well.

you were just playing games with me.

"opening Jab"? please define.

if anything, it was unintentional and directed at the larger audience.
that was not meant to be an obtuse response or denial.
I need to know HOW I do that very thing.....
your writing skill is far superior to my own.
I appear both course and brash in comparison.

your argument for "Treason" is well founded. at a minimum it is subversive.
I have only been testing this technique for about a week now.
my best guess at this time is that it provokes instant recognition of cognitive dissonance...
thank you, my intention in creating this post was to make our argument both cleaner and stronger. but also more palatable.

my part in this epic battle is (very) small....
my religion is posterity.

yes, I am trying to learn from other here as well, to make progress for Liberty.
what works on sheeple? how small can you make "sound bites" and still be effective?

I don't want to, and can never give up trying. if I provoke cognition dissonance and get a negative reaction. then I move on, and wait and see I they come to me. if they do not? and the next time that I bring the subject up? I know who they are.

I attempted to present the question at the DP in a "tongue and cheek" manner.
my attempt at promoting intelligent discourse at the DP is, again....a complete failure.
only a few responses and zero side arguments.

I know here I am.

Today's DP. cannot understand the query?

I am having great fun with this simple question.

is it cruel and arrogant of me to ask the question? or only cocky?

is the statement that tough? really?

ad·den·dum

can't you hear me knocking?

Neither

If people really wanted a 'free' country, then they wouldn't care if others had political views that differed from their own.

I think Democracy is a failure and morally wrong, but I'm not going to pretend it's criminal. 'Criminal' by who's standard, anyway? If you say the Constitution, then you're wrong, because inanimate objects are incapable of holding an opinion.

Also, why do you always act like you're the smartest person on the site? You seem to have this condescending, know-it-all attitude towards others for no apparent reason, and with very little to back it up.

A signature used to be here!

Oh, my bad. it REALLY is illegal.

sorry about the bad attitude. I do NOT write well and I am an "old" guy.
I only get cocky and arrogant concerning subjects related to thermodynamics.

I was having a discussion with my sister in Kalifornia. I looked at their flag and it says right on it. "the republic of California"

I asked her to explain that. before considering me a "conspiracy theorist"

I consider the DP to be intelligent. and that is why I sill post here.

The DP is NOT a place for beginning, beginners. it is a smoky bar, full of disgruntled patriots.

is "Democracy" legal here?

Bump

For those that missed this, Myself, I am just too darned tired to form an opinion right now my friend. I was up late chasing away gad guys last night.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

you answered the query Brother.

how is there any "opinion" to be had?

it was just a statement of FACT.
the DP is now full of dummies.
I am from "delta" country. Elvis country.
when I compare where I reside. to yours... wow.
Graceland is not that far from here, and if you have never visited the area south of new Orleans.... then we need to.

is the question too complex?

or is it considered a supposition on the DP?

one for you

please buy yourself a dictionary this Christmas

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein