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The EPA Takes an Axe to Self-Sufficiency: Most Woodburning Stoves Will Soon Be Illegal

‘When you think of that little dream homestead in the woods, what does it include? Probably a well and septic system, a little stream bubbling nearby, a chicken coop, a sunroom for winter growing, and a cozy fire to curl up next to.

When my daughter and I spent a year living in a cabin in the Northwoods of Canada, our woodstove was our lifeline. It was the only source of heat in a place that reached -42 degrees. It was the only way we could cook when our power went out during snow and ice storms (as it did frequently). It was the cozy center of our home, and we survived for an entire frigid winter for less than$800. After that experience I vowed never to live in a home without a woodstove.

If the EPA has its way, however, heating your home self-sufficiently with wood could soon become illegal – or at the very least, insanely expensive.’

http://www.theorganicprepper.ca/the-epa-takes-an-ax-to-self-...

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Do you all realize what is happening here?

"On their site, while trying to convince people to get rid of their old stoves and buy the new EPA-certified stoves, they state that these older stove must be scrapped and cannot be resold."

Who do you think is pushing this nonsense? If you guessed a consortium of wood-burning stove manufacturers, you would be correct. I guess in their opinion it's time to upgrade. Qui bono? Follow the money. And the EPA gets a bigger budget for the next few years to "enforce" this crap. Win win... and once again we lose.

This is a major problem with our so-called government.

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RON PAUL 2012

Is there perhaps even a similarity to "Cash for Clunkers"?

Semi-off topic, I know, but I always thought that was just a scam to put a dent in people's future ability to travel--by taking a lot of affordable used vehicles off the market and thus raising used car prices beyond a lot of people's reach.

Could the trick be at a higher level? Like metals suppliers / raw material providers in bed with oil industry?

Government screwing people. (This will be a *fun* one to watch--to see who makes tha wampum, yo.) And your observations and hypothesis of course similarly reflect real fascism, where business and government meet to corner power at the people's expense.

(Maybe they'll ship all the scrap stoves to be melted down in China... real quick like.)

What would the Founders do?

All clunk, no cash

Yes, all this scrap will ultimately head to China. All this country exports anymore is inflation, war and recyclable materials (seriously, I know someone who sells space for the big shipping containers, not much else being sent out according to him).

Who do you think was behind obamacare? The insurance companies, that's who. Though they will lie straight to your face and say they "oppose" it.

Yes, fascism, fascism, fascism. Government of the business, by the business, for the business. You and I don't have a voice until we can outspend the business "interest groups".

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RON PAUL 2012

Did anyone read this:

From the Farmer's Almanac published August, 2013.. "We're using a very strong four-letter word to describe this winter, which is C-O-L-D. It's going to be very cold," said Sandi Duncan, managing editor.

http://www.foxnews.com/science/2013/08/26/farmers-almanac-pr...

A recent storm knocked out the power, there's no heat, and it's 20 degrees outside (that's cold for the South). You fire up the wood stove for heat, your home is warm and toasty. Now imagine there's someone at the door who is from the EPA informing you that it's illegal to use a wood burning stove. Question: How many people are going to douse the fire and sleep in a freezing house with visions of broken water pipes dancing in their heads?

Lucky for the EPA person the spring thaw comes early in the South.

Oh my - you have not been paying attention - school is in

The EPA wont knock at your door - your insurance agent will.
And if you have a stove - you get dropped. You get dropped, the bank comes knocking(every single mortgage with a bank requires insurance - period).

So, you have choices:
1. Get rid of the stove
2. Keep stove and have the bank take your house(but you can still keep the stove if you weld wheels on it so you can take it with you)
3. Pay off mortgage

THEN - when enough people can do three(because of course they have been paying attention) - getting local school funds will be predicated on local zoning laws banning stoves - since of course - it is bad for the children.

I should have mentioned my scenario

was hypothetical.

Question: if insurance agents are now going to be used as quasi-woodstove EPA thugs, after the agent gets done dropping people with a wood stove, what do you think his commission checks are going to look like?

Question: If the mortgage is paid off, and no insurance agent will come calling acting like a quasi-woodstove EPA thug, will the employees of the EPA be forced to assume the role of quasi-woodstove EPA thugs?

Just asking...

I believe the EPA should be disbanded--

or made otherwise irrelevant--

but admittedly there have been a lot of 'trashy' wood stoves manufactured--

I checked on the list, and ours is approved--even though it's over 30 years old. It was expensive, but we decided 30 years ago that we wanted the option to heat with wood--

however, this really does 'frighten' me, because I think they ARE after those who want to be self-reliant--

our wood is right out in the 'open' where it could be dragged away or taken--

so, yes, this is a serious concern--

just one more step towards a police state--

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

Russian fireplaces

These are the most efficient wood heating devices ever made. The reason why is because once you get these up to temp it takes very little fuel to maintain a constant temperature. Biggest advantage is you do not have to stand over them and feed them constantly like a rocket heater and most others.

http://www.alternativeenergyprimer.com/Masonry-Heaters.html

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

Debbie's picture

Very interesting, thank you!

Bookmarked this site.

Debbie

You are very welcome

An interesting note in design is the firebox, notice how it is designed to "recycle" some of the exhaust gasses and smoke output? This achieves a longtime sought after goal in wood burner design called the "second burn". Even today this goal has been only achieved by very few high end modern stove manufacturers.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

tamckissick, curious my friend?

Curious my long lost friend, have you weighed in on this one yet? Not your thing? Just curious?

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

Sorry, just noticed you did, lol

I missed it, sorry.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

Phxarcher87's picture

Here you go, a rocket mass heater for you

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4NoC0U8geM

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" - Mark Twain

Phxarcher87's picture

ROCKET MASS HEATER

Google it Folks saves, time, money and more efficient. Go to permes.com and look under ENERGY. Do it!

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" - Mark Twain

Yeah get the nuance here, RH and RMH

A rocket heater or rocket stove (RH) is a great design and it scales up and down wonderfully. You can make a portable RH, I've done the coffee can design and a larger one with an old 50# propes tank.

And yes, you get the geometry right with whatever materials and diameters you got, they are way efficient. You can hear them roar. No problem, everybody got that.

OK the RMH is where we take advantage of something RHs DON'T which is require a vertical chimney. One you have the height for the actual rocket effect in the stove you can start running the chimney laterally and that's where the M, Mass comes in because we encase the chimney in something thermally massive like concrete or rammed earth. And that mass soaks up even more heat from the stack. And we reach yet another level of efficiency that way in a stationary structure.

RMH is the most efficient wood fired heat generating setup yet devised by human kind. Everybody good on that?

Aweseome.

There is nothing strange about having a bar of soap in your right pocket, it's just what's happening.

To support mass heating

I went and dug up a very good link from my 999 bookmarks on these things and posted it above about the Russian mass fireplaces. You talking about Encasing the pipe with mass reminded me of it. Thank you.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

Perfect

for cabins or new construction. They really are as amazing as people claim, when properly built they have little visible or odorous exhaust leaving the vent outside, and provide huge amounts of heat for very little fuel.

You can have my wood stove ...

You can have my wood stove when you pry it from my cold, dead hands!

RickStone

woodstoves retailers

Would think now their sales will be off the charts.

This is stupid. Wood is a renewable resource.

Obviously a push by the home heating oil industry or propane or electric.

What are people out in the middle of nowhere supposed to do? Fireplaces are not that dependable. You can heat the whole floor of a house with a stove.

I would choose the oil over propane though if gas is not available. I could not imagine heating a home by electricity. :O

donvino

bigmikedude's picture

Good luck enforcing that around my neck of the woods.

90 out of 100 houses have them around here. Including most of the local police and sheriffs. And we all play banjos.

Lol

And the Jug, The washboard, The Dulcimer and the String-Tub Bass. I love it. A bluegrass "deliverance" neighborhood watch program.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

Has anyone heard...

from those two revenuers that went up Ol' Rocky Top?

Debbie's picture

Ha ha - you mean revenooers.

Yep.

Debbie

Phase out the EPA...

.

BUMP!.... Thanks for Posting

I live in a rural setting..however, within the last year or two a local law was passed in NYS banning "open burning" ex; leaves, brush.

**The law was enacted without much fanfare or publicity**

It requires brush and leaves to be hauled away by a "waste-contractor" either public (taxpayer-funded) or (in my case) by a private carting/waste company.
I chose to mulch/compost.
*Imagine the environmental impact of huge trucks collecting this "trash".
*Imagine the financial impact upon the homeowner.

I do remember years ago, being informed by a fella from the New Mexico how "they" had outlawed fireplaces in his area.
Just what this country needs.....MORE REGULATIONS.

"Beyond the blackened skyline, beyond the smoky rain, dreams never turned to ashes up until.........
...Everything CHANGED !!

Not the first time.

Domestic food growing - gardens and food animals (such as chickens, goats, cows, ...) - were once common in cities. They were driven out of common use during the Great Depression, not by city or state legislation, by the FHA.

Most mortgages were short term (3-5 years) interest-only plus balloon payment instruments. Homeowners equity was typically substantial (and most of their net worth), but the loan might still represent about half of the home value. These loans had to be refinanced regularly. After the collapse of the banks and the economy, there was no refinancing to be had (and many were unable to make the interest payments, as well).

The FHA was created to make the refinance loans possible, before people lost their homes (and most of their net worth).

One of the terms of an FHA non-farm home loan was "no domestic animals". City people were left with the choice of getting rid of their livestock or losing their house, land, and wealth, joining the army of homeless paupers.

Thus the "urban farm" went out of style. It disappeared commpletely or was reduced to a vegetable and spice garden.

= = = =
"Obama’s Economists: ‘Stimulus’ Has Cost $278,000 per Job."

That means: For each job "created or saved" about five were destroyed.

Debbie's picture

Interesting!

Thank you!

Debbie

From the Article

...and I quote:
"In many places it’s illegal to collect rainwater. Growing food in your front yard instead of flowers is all but outlawed. Sellers of raw milk have their farms raided by SWAT teams as though they’re running a meth lab instead of a dairy. We are being Codex Alimentarius-ed and Agenda 21-ed right into slavery and the government and it’s agencies try to make it appear that they are “saving” us.....".. - (www.theorganicprepper.ca)

The EPA neglected to study the threefold benefits of wood-burning stoves...FACT:wood heats in three ways:
#1-when you cut it
#2-when you split & stack it
#3-when you burn it

"Beyond the blackened skyline, beyond the smoky rain, dreams never turned to ashes up until.........
...Everything CHANGED !!

The EPA can KMA

but... maybe, just maybe this can bring light to a few better alternatives.

Rocket stoves were mentioned below and yes, they are a much better alternative than a traditional wood stove. Our temporary 'campout' rocket stove put out much more heat for a lot less wood than my old double-55-gal-drum stove does in my garage.

A typical pound of wood (say Ash for example) has around 6,000-7,000 BTUs of heat available. That's around 2 kwh for electric conversion. A wood stove is 50-65% efficient, so as much as half the heat goes out the chimney.

A rocket stove easily tops this with an efficiency of more than 90% meaning that you get almost double the heat for the same exhaust emissions. Due to the strong draft inherent in these, you also now have more options available for heating water for hydronic heating or for just venting I'd think the EPA should recognize this as a next step and I think many people would welcome the reduced wood required for their needs.

However, this still doesn't address the EPA's concerns over CO2. The good news is that we can take the rocket stove another step further and eliminate that completely.

Rearranging a rocket stove and making it air-tight yields a gasifier. This little gem is still over 90-95% efficient with the same external options but has two other benefits. First off, it is equally efficient with any garbage (non-glass and non-metal - they pass through as ingots). Secondly, it traps the exhaust (and much of the combustion) in an O2 starved chamber which allows you to capture combustible fuel to be stored for later use. This hydrogen and carbon monoxide mixture (often known as 'wood gas') can run any old gas engines with a simple burner tube (like a gas furnace has). If you just want the heat, you can just allow it to burn inside but your exhaust now CAN (if done right) have no CO2. I don't see how the EPA can have any say in regulating something that has no emissions in their target category.

I'm not agreeing at all with the government regulating this area but if they end up doing so, we do at least have some options that work out very nicely.

My $0.02