32 votes

I'm at a loss about what to do about the Granger

After all, she's been here so long. User #408.

And let's face it, we're all here for one reason: We all supported Ron Paul for President. That is, and will always be, our forever bond - no matter where we go, or where we end up.

People are moving on their separate ways. Like dandelion seeds to the wind. I saw a guy wearing a t-shirt with a dinosaur on it, and the words, "All my friends are dead."

Sometimes I feel like that here. So many people have come through these doors at the DP. And then, they just disappear into the ether. But it was all they they ever were - parts of the ether. I never saw them, spoke with them, seen the idiosyncrasies of their movement or dress. No physical representation, aside from what I've crafted in my mind.

- - - - -
Remember '07? That will always be the highlight for me, because it was an original creation. So many things unfolded spontaneously, and beautifully. The Ron Paul Blimp remains a stellar achievement of that era. The Rudy Giuliani Game Changer.

Completely spontaneous. The Granger was there for '07.

2012 was so much more scripted. A template had been laid, and had to be followed. Everyone expected it. They even expected the blimp to be back. That's just suffocating.

Having to follow a script, I mean. Boring. Generally.

- - - -

The Daily Paul, also is in unchartered water. We have the scripts here - scripts of how we behave. It is boring. Predictable.

I'm done fighting with people. Nothing personal. Its just that 8 years of it takes its toll. I'm tired.

I don't want to come in here and see someone in a rage about their pet topic, mowing people down. I don't like seeing people reflexively downvoting people, just because of who they are. Then again, I was reminded (by The Granger) that I jumped on top of the pig pile at the end as well.

And so I did. Because I'm sick of the dogma.

I feel like I should ask her if she wants to come back and explain what happened. Because I don't get it. Somebody joked that the Granger was the only person ever to go from Ron Paul to being a neo-con.

I want to know what happened.

Granger, do you want to tell us?

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Michael Nystrom's picture

Thanks everyone for your input

I decided to let the Granger back because I think everyone deserves a second chance.

In the past, I gave 3-4-5-6-7 chances. I'm not doing that any more.

I'm closing up comments now.

He's the man.
mountaincat's picture


I have a suggestion. How about the Mods get a "Chill Pill" tag for articles where posters devolve to bickering. This chill pill prevents the article from reaching the front page. Childish posters can now have at each other without airing our dirty laundry on the front page. I Love the Daily Paul for the news, history, music, new ideas, gardening tips and vetting what I believe to be true. Perhaps "Gossip" would be a better name for this tag.

Remember: "If you ain't having fun you ain't doing it right".
Lets get back to winning this Rloveution.

Who Is The Gr@nger?

I've been here quite @ while & obviously missed something. Perh@ps it's best I rem@in uninformed unless it involves import@nt ide@s.

Insert name


For Freedom!
The World is my country, all mankind is my brethren, to do good is my religion.

Linda Cross's picture



If you see something, say something, the government is listening.
Silence isn't golden, it's yellow.

Martin Niemoeller

From the Martin Niemoeller Foundation web site:-
"When the Nazis came for the communists, I said nothing; I was, of course, no communist.
When they locked up the Social Democrats, I said nothing; I was, of course, no Social Democrat.
When they came for the trade unionists, I said nothing; I was, of course, no trade unionist."

Remember the "Lawyer for Ron Paul", remember HIM?
I remember being threatened with a lawsuit!
MICHAEL: You didn't have to ban him...he eventually showed his hand to all who SUPPORTED AND OPPOSED HIM!
You simply "enforced" the rules.
THAT was a very controversial DP "event", and if I recall correctly it was ZshNinja, among others who reasoned with "The Granger" who given some time, and investigation, recanted her view and support publicly!
BOTTOM LINE: This wonderful website survived many crises and controversies...the Primaries..the Jesse Benton controversy..the obvious trolls and Romney "operatives"

....Which brings us to:
"When they came for me, there was no one left who could protest."

Yes, there's been a "pile-on"..I've witnessed Granger taking her lumps many times, and upon expressing my concerns?...She chastised me, explaining that she could handle it.
She's certainly tough....she has her views...she's been a part of this family of DPers for a long,long time.
The silence is deafening.
Bring back "The Granger".
Contrary to Public Propaganda, my quoting of Martin Niemoeller is more exact...He didn't specify the threat to Jews in his original text..the abovementioned is more pure in it's translation.
I may get some flak over this...the Granger-bashers are many, BUT.....It's the CHRISTIAN THING to do... so deal with it.

"Beyond the blackened skyline, beyond the smoky rain, dreams never turned to ashes up until.........
...Everything CHANGED !!

CNN is dropping piers.....too

CNN is dropping piers.....too much controversy isn't helping ratings.

No granger would have a great effect here.

As I sit here pondering - I think it is all coming clearer

***I posted this on another thread - but just felt it kind of all tied together so I copied and pasted it here as well***

I have read Michael's post about the Granger and have refrained from commenting because I have mixed emotions. But now as I read and re-read the comments here - I think it all makes more sense and my mind is clearer.
I think I will actually copy this post right on over to that thread.

First, I am not attacking anyone -merely pointing something out. I posted here that I own a solar home(grid tied, part of big brother subsidy, tax credited, thank you for helping pay for it) and I stated how much a battery bank for my house would cost.

With ZERO knowledge of my home, my solar rating, my electric usage, the direction of my roof, the size of the solar array and the many other factors that go into a complex system - two posters actually question the cost of the batteries. Again, I am not attacking them - merely using it as an illustration.
There is no way anyone who has any solar knowledge would even attempt to quantify the cost of my battery system without asking some of these basic facts.
The DP used to be a place to come and learn, gain knowledge, expand one's mind - but it seems to have shifted to a place where one can only hope not to be questioned and attacked for merely sharing knowledge and experience.
Not one question asked, only "facts" stated.
For anyone looking into solar, I can provide an abundance of knowledge, but it will probably be lost and obscured by those who immediately question question question everything and then throw out information that is incomplete or flat out inaccurate.

Perhaps this is what was driving the Granger further and further. Perhaps Granger was finding it increasingly difficult to grow in the DP garden. No one can deny she had a bulls eye on her and the relentless attacks had to have taken a toll. Perhaps she started to find herself becoming more and more like so many that are just quick to be contrarian - and perhaps upon realizing what she had become - she did not like what she saw. She was not always as confrontational, not always on queue with her predictable comments. Certainly she seemed automated recently - but - then it appears the DP in general has become a little automated.

Maybe we ask the Granger to come back. Maybe we all take an outside look at what we have become and make a conscious effort to move back towards the enlightenment this site provides for those who wish to gain knowledge and not just prove how much they know.

When my teenage daughter's get in one of there teenagers know everything moods we stop using there actual name and call them KNia - it is an affectionate way to remind them that they are acting like Know It Alls. It is amazing to see how once one person starts being a Knia - how others quickly follow suit so as not to feel the lessor. Then it snowballs into all out fights. Hence, we try to stop it early and often.

The DP has too many Knia's these days.

And to add to this - if I remember back to my wedding day I believe these words were spoken:
"Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres."

The one that stands out here is keeping no records of wrong. If the Granger makes right with you Michael, then the rest of us should keep no record, for many of us had our part to play in the final scene.

ConstitutionHugger's picture

If this was a dinner party at your house

and she behaved as she did, would you ask her to leave? I think she went crazy, to use a layman's term.

I miss Fishy...

What did I miss?

Now don't hang on ~Stunning rendition of "Dust in the Wind"


I close my eyes
Only for a moment and the moment's gone
All my dreams
Pass before my eyes a curiosity

Dust in the wind
All they are is dust in the wind

Same old song
Just a drop of water in an endless sea
All we do
Crumbles to the ground though we refuse to see

Dust in the wind
All we are is dust in the wind

Now don't hang on
Nothing lasts forever but the Earth and Sky
It slips away
And all your money won't another minute buy

Dust in the wind
All we are is dust in the wind
All we are is dust in the wind
Dust in the wind
Everything is dust in the wind
Everything is dust in the wind

Oh my.... one of my favorite songs. Brought a tear to my eye.

I used to play it on an Alvarez 12 string acoustic guitar back in the day. Not particularly well, mind you, but play it I did, just for me. I love the pick pattern, love the song.

Thank you so much for posting this - a great addition to my day, I appreciate it. xoxox


בָּרוּךְ הַבָּא!


- מַזָּל טוֹב. Mazel Tov

Liberty prevails

Eretz Yis ra el Amen!

Plantin the seeds for our Savior. In the End Jesus wins!



"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

Translation for those who do not know...

You ended your comment with:

"Eretz Yis ra el Amen" = Eretz Israel, so be it.

"Eretz Israel" is the land promised to Abram in Genesis 15:18: "'Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates"

Theodor Herzl, the founder of Zionism, says that the area of the Jewish state stretches: "From the Brook of Egypt to the Euphrates." ***same as Genesis 15:18

Rabbi Fischmann, member of the Jewish Agency for Palestine, declared in his testimony to the U.N. Special Committee of Enquiry on July 9, 1947: "The Promised Land extends from the River of Egypt to the Euphrates. It includes parts of Syria and Lebanon." ***same as Genesis 15:18


So, you are saying "so be it" to Israel expanding to the Nile River deep into Egypt, to the Euphrates deep into the heart of modern Iraq, all of Lebanon and much of Syria.

Pretty ambitious. How many more walled ghetto prisons caging millions will that require? How much more ethnic cleansing?

~wobbles but doesn't fall down~

Oh boy.

Here we go.

Weebles, I'm sure the Quabbalah Golem is coming after you too, right?

Mr. Nystrom

I don't think you need to worry, I think she was a shill, your concern is nice, I agree with your decision, have a nice day.

probably not a shill

just someone with deep differences.

Michael, I never paid any attention to Granger until her Stand.

And I didn't spend that much time on DP and didn't notice her posts.

I'm an early subscriber as well, but have only used the site to get an share ideas about promoting Liberty.

Granger, was an early PsyOp in my opinion, and a message to us all that it is our minds that are the target.

I don't think "The Granger" is a real person. I think she was a PsyOp from the beginning.

Missing her is a form of the Stockholm syndrome.

I don't fault anyone for being a victim and I haven't read through all of the replies to your post.

But Granger put 20,000 comments up to confuse people. She went from Patriot, to Wounded Dove, to LOVE ISRAEL, at will.

I down voted here a lot, and offered a link to a free introductory course to logic.

Granger was a Psyop, thanks for bringing up the subject again.



"Missing her is a form of the Stockholm syndrome."

Pardon the interruption - I don't care one way or another about The Granger but that sentence is just too damn funny! LOL! Upvoted for the snicker creation value alone!

That would be Funny

If it wasn't so pathetic.
Psy-Op?...Romney Operative?
Base1 admits to being a "early" DPer. Yet forgets all the "other" "operatives" that have come here and trolled.
And guess what? The DP is still around.

Thanks for making that observation.
Stockholm Syndrome...Hahahha!

"Beyond the blackened skyline, beyond the smoky rain, dreams never turned to ashes up until.........
...Everything CHANGED !!

It did get bizarre toward the end.

I was unable to tell though whether it was personality changes due to - what appeared to me to be - depression, or - while you and I don't often agree, base - something else entirely. I can see your point here.

Granger was a true believer

If my memory serves right, she had mentioned that she was part of the Hare Krishna cult as well...

I know a lot of true believers...the thing with them is that they NEED something to believe in ALL the time...whether its a religion or a leader or a philosophy. They are generally introduced to said leader/religion/ philosophy by a friend by a friend who seems more at ease in life than they are themselves. Once hooked they believe it is their moral duty to ignore any facts that cast their chosen belief in a bad light.

That said, you have often said that the DP community is like your family...and I would certainly never shut the door on family simply for something they believed...

Conversely...when Shishupal was born it was prophesied that he would be slain by his uncle Lord Krishna. His mother, in desperation went to Krishna for assurance and he took a vow that he would forgive even a thousand crimes of Shishupal...

Shishupal grew up to be a king and leader, but he always hated Krishna...once in a full court, he rose up and began abusing Krishna...he abused him for hours in front of the whole assembly and Ktishna took it all without flinching....but as soon as the 1000th oath had left Shishupal's lips, Krishna lifted his divine Chakra and it flew across the room taking Shishupal's head off...

The moral of the story is that you cannot save somebody from themself...

Thank you Gods


It's always nice when people rise up to their true efforts!

God Bless You.

You're probably right

but where is that line of tolerance suppose to end. The liberty movement is going to keep growing. More people will come and there are going to be more Grangers. How are we going to accommodate those that think differently but are still willing to engage and consider the ideas of liberty and the importance of constitutional government?

I think we're always going to get better discourse with differing minds in the mix. If I was ever arguing with Granger, at least I knew I wasn't just preaching to the choir. So it causes a lot of hostility or stink? Probably, but where else is it going to be treated better. Most sites are just filled with venomous slander and no substance. The DP has substance, some of which wouldn't even shine through without people like Granger who disturb the water.

Wow, great words!


It's obvious that you are certainly standing for the principles of this site and not trying to manipulate anything.

" How are we going to accommodate those that think differently but are still willing to engage and consider the ideas of liberty and the importance of constitutional government? "

God Bless!

Mind control efforts at it's best!

I missed my 6th birthday here...

I am pretty sure if I had gone off the deep end and posted the crazy type things that granger did I would have been booted. What is the big adoration of this lunatic? OOOOOPs I called her a name I will be banned.
I am stunned she is allowed to come back.(a person bent on spreading racism and hatred)
I seldom post or comment, mostly come here for news. Just totally stunned stunned, shocked this person is back!

Formerly rprevolutionist

Deep end?

Don't you find it interesting that you have 3 UP VOTES, telling that the Granger went off the deep end and calling her a Lunitic? Banned and all that?

Don't you see how obvious this is?


I don't know the whole story but

she caused me no problem. Did she threaten someone? Cause physical harm? If not she has caused a lot less trouble than the government.

Yo Michael when we look at others and see their faults it is the perfect time to look within and see where we are like those that we have an issue with.

We should be mature enough to allow other views and ideas. As long as violence is not happening.

I'm not sure either what happened to Fishy but she could join us as well.


Days of our Lives


For Freedom!
The World is my country, all mankind is my brethren, to do good is my religion.