32 votes

I'm at a loss about what to do about the Granger

After all, she's been here so long. User #408.

And let's face it, we're all here for one reason: We all supported Ron Paul for President. That is, and will always be, our forever bond - no matter where we go, or where we end up.

People are moving on their separate ways. Like dandelion seeds to the wind. I saw a guy wearing a t-shirt with a dinosaur on it, and the words, "All my friends are dead."

Sometimes I feel like that here. So many people have come through these doors at the DP. And then, they just disappear into the ether. But it was all they they ever were - parts of the ether. I never saw them, spoke with them, seen the idiosyncrasies of their movement or dress. No physical representation, aside from what I've crafted in my mind.

- - - - -
Remember '07? That will always be the highlight for me, because it was an original creation. So many things unfolded spontaneously, and beautifully. The Ron Paul Blimp remains a stellar achievement of that era. The Rudy Giuliani Game Changer.

Completely spontaneous. The Granger was there for '07.

2012 was so much more scripted. A template had been laid, and had to be followed. Everyone expected it. They even expected the blimp to be back. That's just suffocating.

Having to follow a script, I mean. Boring. Generally.

- - - -

The Daily Paul, also is in unchartered water. We have the scripts here - scripts of how we behave. It is boring. Predictable.

I'm done fighting with people. Nothing personal. Its just that 8 years of it takes its toll. I'm tired.

I don't want to come in here and see someone in a rage about their pet topic, mowing people down. I don't like seeing people reflexively downvoting people, just because of who they are. Then again, I was reminded (by The Granger) that I jumped on top of the pig pile at the end as well.

And so I did. Because I'm sick of the dogma.

I feel like I should ask her if she wants to come back and explain what happened. Because I don't get it. Somebody joked that the Granger was the only person ever to go from Ron Paul to being a neo-con.

I want to know what happened.

Granger, do you want to tell us?

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Your Awesome

I watched this show when I was 17 during the summer of 86 with my mother, great show. Your funny as hell dude.

Michael Nystrom's picture

Dex you are funny

You don't like these egos, and yet, we are all people. We all have egos.

In some ways, all of us on here are "famous" to one another. One of the things you're famous for is for running in those ultraman races, and for organizing that shipment to Japan after the earthquake.

Those are awesome things. Who we are is important, too.

BTW, I have posted this before, but here it is again, about The Well from Wired Mag.


The Well was an early version of the DP. That is a long, but fascinating read, and I think you might enjoy it.

I enjoyed that very much

And puts much perspective on things.

I know we all have egos and some are more dominant than others.

For some reason I like this place too. I am not one to engage is long discussions, typically one or two hit comments and a few posts here and there. ( like having ADD) I just feel an unsaid sence of obligation as a long time member to help preserve the things many of us really like.

There has been a shift in the dynamic as stated in the comments by someone. One from education, news, sound money etc... To conspiracy and flame wars... Most of it is tolerable but theres a balance and sometimes a BIG ego can upset that.

I'm still loving this place and it will probably be the reason I get laid off since I'm on here so much...Haha

Thanks Michael


For Freedom!
The World is my country, all mankind is my brethren, to do good is my religion.

Granger told you you were piling on at the end??

she sounds very manipulative. It's not like she could be so clueless as to how rude she was being and how annoyed people were with her. If I acted like that I'd hope someone would say something.

I think must have been taken to a "re-education" camp, or be under the control of some psychotronic weapon.. that's the only logical answer :)

Michael Nystrom's picture

She reminded me.

She told me I said this in one of the comments:

"Granger should go to Syria with McCain, as neither would be missed"

And I said, quite indignantly, "I never said that. I would never say such a thing."

And then she showed me the comment where I made it. And I couldn't deny it. I piled on on the end too. By that time it was garbage time.

At any rate, HuskerSkier, I appreciate your contributions here. We are all here learning and growing, and no doubt there is some kind of tangled karma with all of us here.

Please just remember that there are two sides to every story. You know yours, but her side is a whole different universe. And that universe may not make any sense to you.

Does that mean she's lesser of a person?

That is true

I have no idea. I've been thinking about it some and I've come to the conclusion that I still have no idea.

One thing is for sure though, and this is what I actually came up with while thinking: The issues that we talk here and the issues that we are all passionate about are not light issues. We aren't discussing honey boo boo. We are talking about life and death issues, we are discussing issues that effect the our prosperity, our future, our society. When we see clarity that others do not it can be maddening trying to explain it to them when they don't get it. For example - I was running around defending jesse benton - I was so focused on maintaining momentum for ron that I could come up with any excuse for anything.

Sometimes we see a path, and our passion for making change gives us tunnel vision to anything else. I think the defense of our path can grow less logical and more emotional and more absolute as people disagree or provide evidence to the contrary. If we let the emotion of our passion "run with it" it can get out of control.

On an anonymous and less personal forum what can start out as a simple disagreement can spiral into something else entirely.

Is she a lesser person? no, actually have to admire her conviction.


Very insightful comment.I think people get addicted to the importance/drama during elections and other "hot" times and forget to calm down or step away. Like Michael said, there's two sides to every story.We also talk a lot about topics that are mixed up in a religious/conspiracy theory quagmire that gets dangerous to talk about.


On the way to forum... and what ever stabbed her between 2008 and 2011 definitely had an affect...

et tu Brute?

Wha? .....hey....who stole my country?

Welcome Back The Granger

We are very different people, you and I, I look forward to matching wits with you once again on the DP. Peacefully of course :)

"The Map is not the Territory." (We both ended up here, but the steps we took to draw our maps are not the same)

^When people remember this, we can grow together.


((((((((((Anthony is AR))))))))) I'll be at the CA GOP fall convention this weekend and look forward to your advice. :))

And I Remember The GRANGER and..

Your trip to the REPUBLICAN LIBERTY CAUCUS of California.

I've stumbled upon this thread and am in shock.
Haven't done much lately due to a bad motorcycle accident and resultant hospital stay....but I can deal with, unlike some of the crybabies here.

See my commentary on the previous page.

P,S. I'm looking at some RLCofC Memorabilia that a kind soul sent me.
The "I DON'T NEED A SAVIOUR" bumper sticker is priceless.

"Beyond the blackened skyline, beyond the smoky rain, dreams never turned to ashes up until.........
...Everything CHANGED !!

It could be just me

but I feel that the dynamic here on the DP has changed. I haven't been here nearly as much as many of you and haven't posted nearly as much as I used to (still check in almost everyday though) but when I first fell across this site it seemed very much into teacher student feel. There were so many that were providing deep thoughtful comments on austrian economics or history or whatever. Anymore, it is more about cynicism and conspiracy theory propaganda. Specifically on that topic, sometimes I really wonder if some of the folks that have these hardcore conspiracies have schizophrenic (spelling?) challenges/issues. Really the world may be headed to hell in a hand basket but we are having a pretty good run if we are. try to enjoy the ride.....anyhow, back to the point, anymore it seems that people here are either in the for us or against us camp and not the welcome to the team, let's discuss and learn about why we feel X about a topic. It's rather, you believe what? you are a neo-con rothchild, devil worshipper. Essentially, the same feel as the huffington post but for libertarian/conservatives. Again, it could be me because I have learned a lot and come a long way in my understanding of things and the dynamic now feels different than it did as a know nothing but I would bet that based on the comments others have made there is some truth to what I say. I don't know. Don't worry about it too much. Maybe having official, formal articles on things would help. Instead of just links to other stories? that way you the owners drive the general conversation in the direction you would like.

Also, don't forget there have been all kinds of new liberty sites and educational sites that have popped up taking away people and their time (liberty school, mises academy, ron paul institute etc.). I don't know I'm rambling.

this is very interesting--

for 1988vote *our* financial lives are over. We hit our peak earning almost 12 years ago and then lost a lot--and spent years un and under employed--

we were well prepared, out of debt and had good savings and a lot of food--but still we suffered and never recovered.

I have found it less interesting to learn about economics because of this--

we do believe in gold; we do not believe in the FR; we do believe that the debt is out of control, but we don't feel that we are to blame for it. We have lived within our means and taken care of ourselves, even in the hard times.

BUT, I see now that it's easier to blame bankers. I see now that for those of us who have hit rock bottom it is easier to try to figure out WHY all of this has happened, since obviously *we* haven't managed to get back to the gold standard, haven't managed to get Austrian economics to be widely accepted.

I've been more concerned about warmongering than many things, and WHY these stupid, endless wars, which has led me to question 9/11.

But I'm not an idiot. I'm not looking for a dumping ground; I just want to know the truth.

Your post made me feel that I need to respond, because I've been more interested in finding out what really happened on 9/11 (and I have no clue to this day and may never know, though I don't believe the official story)--

than in Austrian economics, because the investment money left our pockets a decade ago--

hoping this might explain why some of us who really have tried to be well-educated--

continue to click on 9/11 topics--

and shrug off Austrian economics.

IF I had it to do over again, I would do gold; well, actually the other half of 1988vote feels even more strongly about that than I do--


it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--


You did not ban Grange from this site, she chose to leave on her own.

Granger's post and comments received more down votes than 95% of the post I have seen here and I have been here over six years.

Michael, you were not piling on. The Granger knew exactly what the reactions were going to be to her facts and comments.

So, was Grange a martyr for her cause? Was she a "paid professional" Or was she legit but horribly misguided?

Michael, if you feel like inviting Granger back then you should do it but as long as Grange tries to defend the indefensible she will have to face the consequences.

perhaps we should move on

rather than box her in. I've noticed after a thorough rebuttal, the comments turn bitter and the down votes pile on. At a certain point there isn't much to gain anymore. Perhaps, we could aim to deescalate when things start to go sour.

Michael Nystrom's picture

I know

Everyone makes their bed, and then they have to sleep in it.

But we all learn at different speeds.

Maybe I'm naive. Maybe I'm like Ron Paul and just see the best in people. But she seemed sincere in her email.

Everyone one deserves second chances, but they still have to earn their way to a seat at the table.

You sir 'get it'

And you did from the beginning.

You didn't just get we should vote for Ron Paul, and you didn't just get supporting any movement.

And you took it one step further. Put Liberty FIRST, and let everything else expose itself.


Michael Nystrom's picture

I know

Everyone makes their bed, and then they have to sleep in it.

But we all learn at different speeds.

Maybe I'm naive. Maybe I'm like Ron Paul and just see the best in people. But she seemed sincere in her email.

Everyone one deserves second chances, but they still have to earn their way to a seat at the table.

Debbie's picture

So true about our forever bond Michael!! '07/'08 were the MOST

exciting times, a thrill never to be forgotten, but ALL new movements are most exciting at their beginning! I feel incredibly lucky that we got to be part of one. Probably most people do not experience something like this in their entire lifetime. So we just have to keep on creating. I still love the DP as much as ever and always will.


I don't have a problem with her here.

And I think Fishyculture should be invited back. She caused less controversy. Just the mods had it in for her. I doubt if she would want to come back. She's moved on.

Granger. Lots of her thoughts were just outrageous, but people reacting to her were just as bad. Sometimes I would sit back and just read and watch. She was baiting a lot of the guys and they fell into it. She liked it. Some of it. And then things just went too far.

I'd like to see Fishy back too.

I don't mind Granger here but she is rather combative really and that is not where Micheal seems to want the DP to be going. So maybe everyone needs to take a deep breathe and stop attacking each other and other "groups" as well.

I wonder what the DP will be in the future....a place to hang out and shoot the sh**? I like to come and hear different perspectives. So the arguing is good in some sense until it gets to just name calling.

I have been reflacting on how much things have changed and I am noticing things heading in a different direction. Everyone is having to adjust on all sides.

Michael Nystrom's picture

Ralph, are you in touch with fishy?

Has she said she's moved on?

Her karma here's not done either, I feel, apparently (and at this moment, unfortunately).

- - - - -

You've got some interesting observations, Ralph. Honestly, I wasn't paying that close of attention.

This is like that film Rashomon


Everyone's got their perspective.

I'm really in no position to make a call on this. I really do need Booth Review!

Yeah. I'm very observant to people's writings

I can feel things in them. It's not really a gift like I have been told. Not anything special or magical. Some people just stay in tune with their stuff. Some people have strong esp. Everyone has it. Especially little kids. You let stuff get in your mind as you grow up with all the busy daily junk you have to deal with-- and it all goes to a tiny part in your brain and you don't use it.
I can see people's personalities come through. There are many people here I know I could be real friends with in real life. Granger is someone I don't have much in common with, but would love to meet her in person and hang out with for a day or two. Some I would run the other way. Some I don't like, but love their posts. Some are just fake. Some I can tell are deeply troubled. I can tell when people are drinking and posting. I can tell when people have been smoking....the ones who don't do it daily. For real.

No, I am not, but a comment on DP talked about her

I think it was in comments to a link to another blog where she is now posting. It may have been a post, but I'm not sure. She sent word saying how she loved her experience on DP and loved everyone here and that she has moved on to other things and would probably never come back. Something like that.

I guess the Drama continues


For Freedom!
The World is my country, all mankind is my brethren, to do good is my religion.

granger back

another reason why I dont miss being here anymore. :)

Jackson County Georgia

War is an instrument entirely inefficient toward redressing wrong; and multiplies, instead of indemnifying losses.
Thomas Jefferson

Well, I kinda miss YOU

Well, I kinda miss YOU anony..Fishy and Granger both drove me nuts, at times, but you never did..

Wait...so why are you here?

Wait...so why are you here?

I stopped back in for a quick check on things . . .

and one of the most read topics is granger?
and it's from nystrom? - THAT is not surprising, but WOW, this site has changed if thats whats being discussed.

Like someone hung a neo-con air freshner up and it smells here now.

Hey why isnt there a continual thread and threads on this goverment psyops story of al shabab working in the US?

Jackson County Georgia

War is an instrument entirely inefficient toward redressing wrong; and multiplies, instead of indemnifying losses.
Thomas Jefferson

Michael Nystrom's picture