0 votes

Here is one for people to think about.

According to our government. Before and after 9/11, al qaeda told us that they could not defeat us head to head in a fight. But what they also said is that they would hit us where it hurt most, the economy. So back to 9/11. Al qaeda attacked the world trade center( at the time the center of the world economy) and the pentagon( symbol of our military industrial complex). Clearly more symbolic than to try and kill a lot of people. After 9/11 al qaeda talked about dragging America into a war( well they got two so far.) So fast forward to today, our economy is in the tank, we are stuck in two wars that are bankrupting this country and al qaedas numbers are growing around the world EVERYDAY. So tell me who is truly winning this war? This thought seems to me to be the missing link in Ron Paul's presentation on the war and the effect it has on the economy. If people were given this thought to ponder maybe they would more easily see the truth. Let me know what you think and add any references that you may find to support this.

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.

apologies for all the

apologies for all the posts,
I wanted to repost this part, so that it didn't get lost.

Weren't the supposed "plane hijackers" on 9/11 from Saudi Arabia???
Here's the million dollar question for your pro-war friends:

Do any of your pro-war friends understand that Bush just signed a deal to
sell 20 Billion dollars worth of "smart" bombs to Saudi Arabia?

Don't be surprised when the smart bombs are turned back on our own people,
perhaps the Military in the Middle East.
(And also on American citizens living abroad)

Don't be crying that "Muslim fanatics are killing us!", BECAUSE BUSH SOLD
THEM
THE BLEEPING BOMBS.

Here's part of the

Here's part of the article.
They probably have a more up-to-date article about it on Prison Planet, but
if I post the article from there, then all the pro-war lunatics will call
the arms sale just a "conspiracy theory"
so I'm pulling this older (by a few days) article from the Seattle Times:
Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - Page updated at 12:00 AM

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2004125479...
ml
"Coinciding with Bush's arrival, the administration formally notified
Congress of its plan to sell Boeing's satellite-guided smart-bomb kits to
Saudi Arabia, starting a 30-day period in which lawmakers may object to the
sale, State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said. The deal envisions the
transfer of 900 of the precision-guided bomb kits, worth $123 million, that
would give Saudi forces highly accurate targeting abilities.

Some lawmakers fear the systems could be used against Israel, but Congress
appears unlikely to block the deal because of Saudi Arabia's cooperation in
the war on terror and in deterring aggression from Iran.

The administration has notified Congress of five other proposed sales to
Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates and Kuwait, including Patriot
missiles. The total amount of eventual sales is estimated at $20 billion."

(also, I'm not trying to be

(also, I'm not trying to be harsh by using the word 'lunatic'.
But the fact is that sane people are not pro-war. Sane people are pro-peace.)

Trying the link again

I decided to look at the link again, and it turns out that I left off a couple of letters.
So I am redoing the link and it DOES work.
Hopefully it will stay working, but just in case,
I will keep this part of the article here as it is interesting to read

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2004125479...

Here is most, but not all of it, due to copyright issues:

Bush planning to sell Saudis "smart bombs"

By Terence Hunt

The Associated Press

RIYADH, Saudi Arabia -- President Bush delivered a sophisticated weapons sale for Saudi Arabia on Monday, trying to bolster defenses against threats from U.S. adversary Iran and muster support in this oil-rich kingdom for a long-stalled Mideast peace agreement.

Bush received a warm embrace from King Abdullah, whose family wields almost absolute power. Among ordinary Saudis and across much of the Mideast, Bush is unpopular, particularly because of the Iraq war and unflinching U.S. support for Israel.

Bush and Abdullah were going to some lengths over two days to emphasize their strong personal ties.

Saudi Arabia holds the world's largest oil reserves, and surging fuel costs are putting a major strain on the troubled U.S. economy. Bush said today that he would talk with Abdullah about how high oil prices are affecting the United States.

"It's tough on our economy," Bush said before he began a round-table discussion with Saudi business people.

"I would hope that as OPEC considers [its response to higher prices] that they understand when their biggest consumer's economy suffers, it means less purchases, less oil and gas sold."

The sales are a key element in Bush's strategy to shore up defenses against Iran, which the president has deemed the world's top state sponsor of terrorism. Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states, with majority Sunni Muslim populations, harbor deep suspicions about Shiite Iran's rising power. At the same time, Arab allies are worried that the world economy would suffer heavily if the U.S. dispute with Iran turns into a military confrontation.

Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert warned Monday that all options are open when it comes to keeping Iran from obtaining atomic weapons, his clearest sign yet that Israel could use force.

On Mideast peace, Saudi Arabia handed Bush a coup by taking part in the U.S.-sponsored peace conference in Annapolis, Md., in November.

Bush was expected to encourage Saudi Arabia to help struggling Palestinians build the foundations of a future state. Bush also sees support from Arab neighbors as crucial to the Palestinian leadership being able to successfully negotiate with Israel over borders and other issues.

Abdullah, for his part, was expected to urge Bush to keep up the pressure on Israel to halt settlements in Palestinian territories.

Information from the Chicago Tribune and Bloomberg News is included in this report.

Copyright © 2008 The Seattle Times Company

There's absolutely nothing

There's absolutely nothing wrong with Dr Paul's presentation.
Dr Paul has pointed out that we didn't go to war against the Soviet Union,
who had one heck of a lot more bombs than Iraq.
The people who want to believe the pro-war, there's a terrorist behind every
tree lie, will believe it regardless of the truth that is staring them in
the face.

Here is something else certainly worth thinking about.
Weren't the supposed "plane hijackers" on 9/11 from Saudi Arabia????

Here's the million dollar question for your pro-war friends:

Do any of your pro-war friends understand that Bush just signed a deal to
sell 20 Billion dollars worth of "smart" bombs to Saudi Arabia?

Don't be surprised when the smart bombs are turned back on our own people,
perhaps the Military in the Middle East.

Don't be crying that "Muslim fanatics are killing us!," BECAUSE BUSH SOLD
THEM
THE #$@%(I'm censoring myself) BOMBS.

Yeah, this I have been spreading around.

What is crazy about it is most people dont care. They just say (oh that sucks) or ( so, what does that have to do with anything). We have a long hard fight ahead of us to reach the brainwashed with the truth. This revolution I will fight untill I die.

Freedom!

I went to politico

I tried to post a shorter more to the point version of this for a debate question but my membership is still pending.

Freedom!

Try asking this one: Vote at politico.com

In the last New Hampshire Democratic Debate, the moderators shared with the candidates that the Funds for Medicare and Social Security run out of money and will begin taking loans in 2013 and 2017 respectively. David Walker, the comptroller general of the United States, says that by 2040, at our current spending and taxation rates, the money required to pay ONLY the interest on these loans will eclipse the entire federal budget...

Besides firing David Walker,

Would you:

a) Cut benefits?
b) Raise taxes?
c) Cut spending?
d) Do nothing and still fire David Walker?

Since we know you will all answer C, the follow up question is:

Where?

Afghanistan and Radical Islam

What RP talks about and people never seem to fully grasp is al Qaeda before it got its name.

Read "Ghost Wars" to learn the details.

More or less we recruited and paid the "islamo-fascist" as they call them to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan.

Did we want them to defeat the Soviets? No, we taught them that to be victorious against a super power that you need not defeat their military, but destroy their economy.

The "containment" policy was based on this idea. The idea that the comunist economic model was unsustainable, and that we didn't need to militarily defeat Russia, just keep them in check. Because with out ever expanding territory and subjects, their economy would free fall.

We taught OBL that if he could keep the USSR embroiled in Afghanistan that the economic drain would end the USSR.

Is it any wonder that they are using the same tactics on the US now? Entice us into never ending high cost wars at the expense of our economy, and in the end possibly the country itself.

The only salvation is that the capitalist free-market model is economically more robust than communism, but wait! the Democrats have a plan to keep us in Iraq, Afghanistan and the "War on Terror" AND provide socialism, which as you might have guessed is one small step from Communisim, and the ultimate destruction of the American way of life.

As times get hard the majority of people are more willing to accept communism. Then we lose.

We are

As far as the Star Wars reference about hiring private contractors and bounty hunters...

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/06/12/iraq.contractors/i...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12...

Close enough. And we, as tax payers, are giving these guys millions of dollars to squander and let go unaccounted

Just wanted to add one more

Just wanted to add one more thing

while I've got the time.
It's certainly worth thinking about.

Don't know if any of you are into vegetarianism or alternative living,
but there is a person that I really like named John B. Robbins.

I don't agree with him on everything, but I agree with him on many things.
(And in my own family vegs and non-vegs co-exist very well!)

He has some interesting articles on his website, and one of them is called
Terror, Love, and the State of the World .

http://www.healthyat100.org/display.asp?catid=3&pageid=8

The article was written on September 18, 2001, before any major funding and
building up of arms for the "War on Terror."
I'm quite certain he verified the information before including it in his article; I thought I would post this one section:

Terror, Love, and the State of the World by John Robbins

September 18, 2001

"There is an enormous disconnect taking place between the will of the
American people and the foreign policy of our government.

The American people are for the most part honest, decent, and compassionate.
But few U.S. citizens are aware of how much U.S. foreign policies have
betrayed our caring and our humanity.

How many Americans know that we are far and away the world's leading arms
merchant?

Or that, in the last fifteen years, the U.S. share of the worlds arms trade
has increased from 16% to more than 70%?

How many Americans know that even before September 11th we were spending 18
times more money on the military than the combined spending of all of the
nations identified by the U.S. government as potential enemies (Cuba, Iran,
Iraq, Libya, North Korea, and Syria)?"

O.k. I made some corrections.

Sorry for not providing source information but I will repost this soon with links and will rewrite it to include more detail. Also this was not about the truth of 9/11 but simply to use the governments story against them. To put them in a no win position on these facts. The debate about the truth of 9/11 is for another day. Lets use this to strengthen our anti war position in a way that the everyday war supporter can grab on to. But to add any 9/11 truth ideas when facing those still asleep kills any chance you have of reaching them. Keep it straight and professional and this is gold. To those who question the official story of 9/11 this is in no way negative toward you. As a matter of fact I applaud what you do in the search for truth and knowledge. I to have many questions about that day but please understand what I am trying to do here. Use THERE official story against them. Use only the governments story and the statements from al qaeda to back them all in a corner. If we use this idea correctly, it absolutely will change many hearts and minds. I invite any additional thoughts and ideas you guys have to make a stronger position.

Freedom!

Why 9/11?

Ever wonder why 9/11? What symbolic value attached to that day that they chose it to attack us?

Answer: That is the day Bush Sr. gave his famous New World Order speech before a joint session of Congress, justifing the Persian Gult War to revitalize the U.N. and create a New World Order.

Wasn't it the anniversary of

Wasn't it the anniversary of the Camp David Accords?

Since we've apparently

Since we've apparently become the Empire (see Star Wars), we should authorize the hiring of thousands of bounty hunters to capture or kill all terrorists associated with the events of 9/11 and other 'terror' related activities overseas. Whaddya think, Darth?

..................
"The main thing that I learned about conspiracy theory is that conspiracy theorists actually believe in a conspiracy because that is more comforting. The truth of the world is that it is chaotic..." —Alan Moore

they are doing the same

they are doing the same thing to us that they did to the USSR... bleed us dry of money... this was bin ladens game plan then just as it is now... losing our freedoms only fell into the domestic enemies plans!

Where it hurts the most is not the economy

it is out liberty.
They are winning the war on terror. We are giving up our liberties and our freedoms hand over fist.
If they, like the MSM and Bush administration think they hate us because we are free then we are pandering to them by becoming less free.

I promise

I won't insinuate that terrorists didn't engineer 9/11 here on this forum.

Can everyone else appease us and try NOT to insinuate it?

It's insupportable. This drives me crazy. Bin Laden is not wanted by the FBI for the 9/11 attacks (there was no evidence to convince a grand jury). There's no evidence that terrorists perpetrated 9/11, and a ton of it (AA77 black box [FDR] data included) that they didn't.

Enough.

Al-Qaeda is a creation of the CIA (documented). Terrorist attacks around the world which are acredited to al-Qaeda are done so by our own Defense Department, usually via Cairo or other friendly Middle East news outlets and then picked up in the US. Pay attention folks! This "war on terror" has, is, and will be fomented by our own government in order to keep the war going.

P.S.

Bush and his fellow politicians - most of whom live like kings by the way - love the Military so much, that 1/4 of America's homeless are veterans.

There was also an article - most of you probably read it or heard of it - about how the Military (Industrial Complex) is demanding back the sign-up bonuses that young Americans were given if they signed up to join, IF the Military member were injured and not able to "perform" per military standards.

These are not the actions of a government that appreciates the Military.
These are the actions of an elite group in control, who consider the rest of humanity to be expendable, whether they are wounded or dead American soldiers, or dead Iraqis.

as it happens,

as it happens,
the people who have benefited the MOST from 9/11 have been
the oil cartels and the military industrial complex.
Your average Americans and average Iraqis - not the controlling elitists, I
mean - have not done well at all.

Oil is around 100.00 a barrel, the oil cartels want it to be 200.00 a
barrel, so they will continue to play the American people for the suckers
most of them are, until many Americans are GLADLY paying for the higher oil.
Because they feel "safe" from terrorists.
Even though the politicians - not just Bush - are taking money away from
needy Americans and giving it hand over fist to their best buds, who just
happen to be corporate welfare war profiteers.

Who cares if thousands of American children are homeless - at least they are
"safe" - "safe" from those primarily brown-skinned terrorists that all the
media-endorsed
politicians want to blow away.

Because the media-endorsed politicians are so loving and noble and tolerant
of other races you see - you DO see that don't you?

You certainly see it if you drink the koolaid they give you to drink, the
koolaid liberally laced with fluoride and other poisons.
And you certainly see it if you take one of their pills, be it ritalin,
prozac, viagra, or one of their other "wonder" drugs, with a list of side
effects that turn out to be much, much worse than youthful energy,
depression or impotence.
Unfortunately the only real impotence in America is a spiritual impotence,
that viagra only weakens.

But, however, they ARE worthless, dangerous drugs that are bringing in
billions of dollars for the drug cartels.

And you certainly see it if the only thing you are in control of in your
life is the remote "control," as you feebly change television channels from
one programmer to another programmer.

I used to be in that same category. Not so anymore, Thanks to Alex Jones and
Ron Paul, and other heroes like them.

I wish I could edit the

I wish I could edit the above post, but since I can't I will repost it with my correction.
as it happens,
the people who have benefited the MOST from 9/11 have been
the oil cartels and the military industrial complex.
Your average Americans and average Iraqis - not the controlling elitists, I
mean - have not done well at all.

Oil is around 100.00 a barrel, the oil cartels want it to be 200.00 a
barrel, so they will continue to play the American people for the suckers
most of them are, until many Americans are GLADLY paying for the higher oil.
Because they feel "safe" from terrorists.
Even though the politicians - not just Bush - are taking money away from
needy Americans and giving it hand over fist to their best buds, who just
happen to be corporate welfare war profiteers.

Who cares if thousands of American children are homeless - at least they are
"safe" - "safe" from those primarily brown-skinned terrorists that all the
mainstream-media-endorsed
politicians want to blow away.

Because the mainstream-media-endorsed politicians are so loving and noble and tolerant
of other races you see - you DO see that don't you?

You certainly see it if you drink the koolaid they give you to drink, the
koolaid liberally laced with fluoride and other poisons.
And you certainly see it if you take one of their pills, be it ritalin,
prozac, viagra, or one of their other "wonder" drugs, with a list of side
effects that turn out to be much, much worse than youthful energy,
depression or impotence.
Unfortunately the only real impotence in America is a spiritual impotence,
that viagra only makes worse.

But, however, they ARE worthless, dangerous drugs that are bringing in
billions of dollars for the drug cartels.

And you certainly see it if the only thing you are in control of in your
life is the remote "control," as you feebly change television channels from
one programmer to another programmer.

I used to be in that same category. Not so anymore, Thanks to Alex Jones and
Ron Paul, and other heroes like them.

I was unable to edit the above post,

but when I said oil cartels, I am thinking mainly of American based oil cartels.
I believe they are the ones who are in control of Iraqi oil right now, and probably other Middle Eastern oil.
They have the power to lower the price of oil, but they are getting filthy rich so why, with their sub-standard sense of humanity, why would they lower it to benefit anyone.

I also have no desire to take other countries' resources.
We have our own resources.
And then there is the sun.
Should be free to everyone.

I believe it is high time that American ingenuity bring forth solar energy on a massive scale, and other types of energy as well.

The sun is not going dark any time soon, unless one drinks the koolaid, and listens to corporate-owned experts telling us otherwise.

oil cartels

Why wouldn't the government want the price to go up more than the supplier who don't put the prices up anyway as it is the wholesale buyers who get to put the prices up. Why- because the higher price of fuel at the pumps means more tax on the gallon. (It's approx $10 a gallon in UK or just over £5 of which the tax take is way up in something like the 80-90% bracket I believe)!

'I always thank of all you canvassors and precinct leaders and delegates who were at the front line and caucuses.
Good luck out there &Thank you. You're a gift.

Ron Paul speaking of Iran's military strength

I don't have his exact quote so I am paraphrasing. Now we're going to bomb Iran? Why are we afraid of them? They have no nuclear program, no standing army, no navy, etc. And we are supposed to be afraid of them? What are they going to do----get in a canoe and paddle over here to attack us?!

IRAN

Well they do have a military but I think Ron Pauls' point about the russians was very valid,- where he says they have/had hundreds of Nuclear weapons plus all the other hardware but in the end negotiation staved off war. Also,- the analogy with China where he says you wouldn't like it if chinese warships were sailing off your shores. -These are very fair points. Get out of their face and they won't be agitated basically.
I look up Press TV out of Iran and it seems quite reasonable. I don't see any propaganda, only the truth. It's not like they are hurling insults our way is it? They have oil so they are a supplier. Customers shouldn't fall out with suppliers if they want the product and service.(especially if the product is in great demand and there are other customers available)
Just my opinion.

'I always thank of all you canvassors and precinct leaders and delegates who were at the front line and caucuses.
Good luck out there &Thank you. You're a gift.

Thanks for the clarification

Maybe Ron Paul said it was a "ragtag" army? As for the Nukes that the Soviets had pointed at us, Ron said there were thousands, I think.

Here is a link my son sent to me. It is very long but such a good read called Common Sense. It made some very good points about blowback. http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=88188

The "terrorist threat" is vastly overblown

Don't believe the hype! The "terrorist threat" is vastly overblown. You are more likely to drown in your bathtub than die at the hands of terrorists.

Everyone on this forum should read Overblown: How Politicians and the Terrorism Industry Inflate National Security Threats, and Why We Believe Them by John Mueller.

Here's a synopsis of the book from Amazon.com:

Why have there been no terrorist attacks in the United States since 9/11? It is ridiculously easy for a single person with a bomb-filled backpack, or a single explosives-laden automobile, to launch an attack. So why hasn't it happened? The answer is surely not the Department of Homeland Security, which cannot stop terrorists from entering the country, legally or otherwise. It is surely not the Iraq war, which has stoked the hatred of Muslim extremists around the world and wasted many thousands of lives. Terrorist attacks have been regular events for many years -- usually killing handfuls of people, occasionally more than that.

Is it possible that there is a simple explanation for the peaceful American homefront? Is it possible that there are no al-Qaeda terrorists here? Is it possible that the war on terror has been a radical overreaction to a rare event? Consider: 80,000 Arab and Muslim immigrants have been subjected to fingerprinting and registration, and more than 5,000 foreign nationals have been imprisoned -- yet there has not been a single conviction for a terrorist crime in America. A handful of plots -- some deadly, some intercepted -- have plagued Europe and elsewhere, and even so, the death toll has been modest.

We have gone to war in two countries and killed tens of thousands of people. We have launched a massive domestic wiretapping program and created vast databases of information once considered private. Politicians and pundits have berated us about national security and patriotic duty, while encroaching our freedoms and sending thousands of young men off to die.

It is time to consider the hypothesis that dare not speak its name: we have wildly overreacted. Terrorism has been used by murderous groups for many decades, yet even including 9/11, the odds of an American being killed by international terrorism are microscopic. In general, international terrorism doesn't do much damage when considered in almost any reasonable context.

The capacity of al-Qaeda or of any similar group to do damage in the United States pales in comparison to the capacity other dedicated enemies, particularly international Communism, have possessed in the past. Lashing out at the terrorist threat is frequently an exercise in self-flagellation because it is usually more expensive than the terrorist attack itself and because it gives the terrorists exactly what they are looking for. Much, probably most, of the money and effort expended on counterterrorism since 2001 (and before, for that matter) has been wasted.

The terrorism industry and its allies in the White House and Congress have preyed on our fears and caused enormous damage. It is time to rethink the entire enterprise and spend much smaller amounts on only those things that do matter: intelligence, law enforcement, and disruption of radical groups overseas. Above all, it is time to stop playing into the terrorists' hands, by fear-mongering and helping spread terror itself.

_____________________
Don't blame me! I voted for Ron Paul!

Bump

Bumped

Brain Washed Post

Most of the comments on this post you people are using the information given to you by the same media that are lying, twisting, censoring Ron Paul!
Dr Paul has his reasons not to touch this subject at this time.
The 911 truth movement is big and has Scholars all over the world speaking about what really happened that day. You have been had! & I might ad they are Ron Paulers too.
And grammar errors are due to our gov schooling:(

Google 911 (151,000,000 sites for 911)

There are three kinds of folks:
Those that make it happen.
Those that watch it happen.
Those that wonder what happened.