7 votes

DailyPaul tell me why Israel shouldn't be trusted

Hello DailyPaul,

I noticed a huge vein within the Liberty movement is an anti-Israel sentiment that comes from a few things.
1. Those who object to foreign aid period
2. Those who see the blowback from the MiddleEast coming from siding with Israel
3. Darker theories like Zionism

I myself just got my ass handed to me on Breitbart because I said Levin and Beck are huge Israeli-firsters, and their foreign policy is not aligned with the goals of the American people.

This thread is started because I wanted to know the various reasons why people don't like, trust, or want to interact with Israel for whatever reason.

Feel free to post any sites, previous threads, or personal opinions on this topic.

p.s. I am fiercely anti-Israel, I am not anti-jewish, I can write Hebrew and have studied ancient Judaism and respect the people, but I think the government is a threat towards our freedom.




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Awesome post, +1 for your

Awesome post, +1 for your honesty.

Here's some honesty back at ya, you worked for Lockheed Martin, WTF are you doing on this site?

What do you mean?

What do you mean "what am I doing on this site?" Hopefully, everyone will wake up sooner or later. Let's just say that I discovered the error of my way. I was technically intelligent with an engineering degree, but dumb as a bag of hair in everything else that mattered. I am now 67 y/o. I finally woke up in 1991. After being granted high security clearances, I became privy to some disturbing information about the nature of my work. This made me feel so ashamed that it was difficult to look myself in the mirror. I quit Martin and have never been the same since. One cannot undo taking the red pill. How can someone continue living a lie after being exposed to the truth? Since then, it has been a steady learning quest. I have been stripped of whatever wealth that I thought that I once had, but I feel much richer in other ways. Like finding a home and a few friends on the DP. I just celebrated my sixth year anniversary on this site the other day. :-)

“Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves.”― Henry David Thoreau

Sounds very simular to my story.

Changed my purpose of life. Now I starve the beast and fight back.

sovereign

This is one of the best replies I have ever seen!

Congrats to you Desert Rat! Enjoy the ride!

"it is good for the establishment to adopt liberty ideology, but it is not good for those who have already adopted liberty to fall to the feet of the establishment." ~ Annica2

we could always use some good whistleblowers

at Lockheed...just sayin' If you see something, say something.

RP R3VOLution

They are delusional psychotic

They are delusional psychotic people. They don't have the intelligence to understand they are actually of European ancestry, not true blood Sephardi people.

Not going to take a position but

the reason we fight over this and other stuff, like gay marriage, what is taught in schools, etc is because the government has the power to take a position on the matter.

If the government obeyed the Constitution there would be nothing to fight over. The government is not authorized to give out foreign aid, fight proxy wars, or have others fight our proxy wars. All the Constitution allows for is levying of tariffs. So they could put a tariff if they got mad, it would be stupid but allowed.

It's because we have an illegitimate government that has absolutely zero relation to the only conceivable justification for it's existence, the Constitution, that does all these things it's not authorized to do that we fight over these things they are doing illegally.

If we focused on the real enemy we might get somewhere, and it's not each other. But when we ignore the unconstitutionality of something the government does, because we kind of agree with it, we are perpetuating the problem.

They have hundreds of nuclear

They have hundreds of nuclear weapons of mass destruction, lie about having them, and won't come clean to the IAEA about them.

I For One Am Not Anti-Israel

I am pro-America and neutral everything else.

___________________________________________________________________________
"Bipartisan: both parties acting in concert to put both of their hands in your pocket."-Rothbard

you wanted a link?

https://jhaines6.wordpress.com/2012/11/19/cynthia-mckinney-d...

not crazy about ms mckinney, but this is one example.

In reponse to Mark Vette's comment...

I'd love to see a list of all federal "appointees" with dual citizenship with Israel, and their titles to see just what kind of influence they are propogating.

Michael Mukasey Recently

Michael Mukasey
Recently appointed as US Attorney General. Mukasey also was the judge in the litigation between developer Larry Silverstein and several insurance companies arising from the destruction of the World Trade Center.

Michael Chertoff
Former Assistant Attorney General for the Criminal Division, at the Justice Department; now head of Homeland Security.

Richard Perle
One of Bush's foreign policy advisors, he is the chairman of the Pentagon's Defense Policy Board. A very likely Israeli government agent, Perle was expelled from Senator Henry Jackson's office in the 1970's after the National Security Agency (NSA) caught him passing Highly-Classified (National Security) documents to the Israeli Embassy. He later worked for the Israeli weapons firm, Soltam. Perle came from one the above mentioned pro-Israel thinktanks, the AEI. Perle is one of the leading pro-Israeli fanatics leading this Iraq war mongering within the administration and now in the media.

Paul Wolfowitz
Former Deputy Defense Secretary, and member of Perle's Defense Policy Board, in the Pentagon. Wolfowitz is a close associate of Perle, and reportedly has close ties to the Israeli military. His sister lives in Israel. Wolfowitz came from the above mentioned Jewish thinktank, JINSA. Wolfowitz was the number two leader within the administration behind this Iraq war mongering. He later was appointed head of the World Bank but resigned under pressure from World Bank members over a scandal involving his misuse of power.

Douglas Feith
Under Secretary of Defense and Policy Advisor at the Pentagon. He is a close associate of Perle and served as his Special Counsel. Like Perle and the others, Feith is a pro-Israel extremist, who has advocated anti-Arab policies in the past. He is closely associated with the extremist group, the Zionist Organization of America, which even attacks Jews that don't agree with its extremist views. Feith frequently speaks at ZOA conferences. Feith runs a small law firm, Feith and Zell, which only has one International office, in Israel. The majority of their legal work is representing Israeli interests. His firm's own website stated, prior to his appointment, that Feith "represents Israeli Armaments Manufacturer." Feith basically represents the Israeli War Machine. Feith also came from the Jewish thinktank JINSA. Feith, like Perle and Wolfowitz, are campaigning hard for this Israeli proxy war against Iraq.

Lawrence (Larry) Franklin
The former Defense Intelligence Agency analyst with expertise in Iranian policy issues who worked in the office of Undersecretary of Defense for Policy Douglas Feith and reported directly to Feith's deputy, William Luti, was sentenced January 20, 2006, "to more than 12 years in prison for giving classified information to an Israeli diplomat" and members of the pro-Israel lobbying group American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC).

Franklin will "remain free while the government continues with the wider case" and his "prison time could be sharply reduced in return for his help in prosecuting" former AIPAC members Steven J. Rosen and Keith Weissman, [who] are scheduled to go on trial in April [2006]. Franklin admitted that he met periodically with Rosen and Weissman between 2002 and 2004 and discussed classified information, including information about potential attacks on U.S. troops in Iraq. Rosen and Weissman would later share what they learned with reporters and Israeli officials." (source: sourcewatch.com).

Edward Luttwak
Member of the National Security Study Group of the Department of Defence at the Pentagon. Luttwak is reportedly an Israeli citizen and has taught in Israel. He frequently writes for Israeli and pro-Israeli newspapers and journals. Luttwak is an Israeli extremist whose main theme in many of his articles is the necessity of the U.S. waging war against Iraq and Iran.

Henry Kissinger
One of many Pentagon Advisors, Kissinger sits on the Pentagon's Defense Policy Board under Perle. For detailed information about Kissinger's evil past, read Seymour Hersch's book (Price of Power: Kissinger in the Nixon White House). Kissinger likely had a part in the Watergate crimes, Southeast Asia mass murders (Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos), Installing Chilean mass murdering dictator Pinochet, Operation Condor's mass killings in South America, and more recently served as Serbia's Ex-Dictator Slobodan Milosevic's Advisor. He consistently advocated going to war against Iraq. Kissinger is the Ariel Sharon of the U.S. Unfortunately, President Bush nominated Kissinger as chairman of the September 11 investigating commission. It's like picking a bank robber to investigate a fraud scandal. He later declined this job under enormous protests.

Dov Zakheim
Dov Zakheim is an ordained rabbi and reportedly holds Israeli citizenship. Zakheim attended Jew's College in London and became an ordained Orthodox Jewish Rabbi in 1973. He was adjunct professor at New York's Jewish Yeshiva University. Zakheim is close to the Israeli lobby.

Dov Zakheim is also a member of the Council on Foreign Relations and in 2000 a co-author of the Project for the New American Century's position paper, Rebuilding America's Defenses, advocating the necessity for a Pearl-Harbor-like incident to mobilize the country into war with its enemies, mostly Middle Eastern Muslim nations.

He was appointed by Bush as Pentagon Comptroller from May 4, 2001 to March 10, 2004. At that time he was unable to explain the disappearance of $1 trillion dollars. Actually, nearly three years earlier, Donald Rumsfeld announced on September 10, 2001 that an audit discovered $2.3 trillion was also missing from the Pentagon books. That story, as mentioned, was buried under 9-11's rubble. The two sums disappeared on Zakheim's watch. We can only guess where that cash went.

Despite these suspicions, on May 6, 2004, Zakheim took a lucrative position at Booz Allen Hamilton, one of the most prestigious strategy consulting firms in the world. One of its clients then was Blessed Relief, a charity said to be a front for Osama bin Laden. Booz, Allen & Hamilton then also worked closely with DARPA, the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, which is the research arm of the Department of Defense.

Judicial Inc's bio of Dov tells us Zakheim is a dual Israeli/American citizen and has been tracking the halls of US government for 25 years, casting defense policy and influence on Presidents Reagan, Clinton, Bush Sr. and Bush Jr. Judicial Inc points out that most of Israel's armaments were gotten thanks to him. Squads of US F-16 and F-15 were classified military surplus and sold to Israel at a fraction of their value.

Kenneth Adelman
One of many Pentagon Advisors, Adelman also sits on the Pentagon's Defense Policy Board under Perle, and is another extremist pro-Israel advisor, who supported going to war against Iraq. Adelman frequently is a guest on Fox News, and often expresses extremist and often ridiculus anti-Arab and anti-Muslim views. Through his racism or ignorance, he actually called Arabs "anti-Semitic" on Fox News (11/28/2001), when he could have looked it up in the dictionary to find out that Arabs by definition are Semites.

I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby
Vice President Dick Cheney's ex-Chief of Staff. As chief pro-Israel Jewish advisor to Cheney, it helps explains why Cheney is so gun-ho to invade Iran. Libby is longtime associate of Wolfowitz. Libby was also a lawyer for convicted felon and Israeli spy Marc Rich, whom Clinton pardoned, in his last days as president. Libby was recently found guilty of lying to Federal investigators in the Valerie Plame affair, in which Plame, a covert CIA agent, was exposed for political revenge by the Bush administration following her husband's revelations about the lies leading to the Iraq War.

Robert Satloff
U.S. National Security Council Advisor, Satloff was the executive director of the Israeli lobby's "think tank," Washington Institute for Near East Policy. Many of the Israeli lobby's "experts" come from this front group, like Martin Indyk.

Elliott Abrams
National Security Council Advisor. He previously worked at Washington-based "Think Tank" Ethics and Public Policy Center. During the Reagan Adminstration, Abrams was the Assistant Secretary of State, handling, for the most part, Latin American affairs. He played an important role in the Iran-Contra Scandal, which involved illegally selling U.S. weapons to Iran to fight Iraq, and illegally funding the contra rebels fighting to overthrow Nicaragua's Sandinista government. He also actively deceived three congressional committees about his involvement and thereby faced felony charges based on his testimony. Abrams pled guilty in 1991 to two misdemeanors and was sentenced to a year's probation and 100 hours of community service. A year later, former President Bush (Senior) granted Abrams a full pardon. He was one of the more hawkish pro-Israel Jews in the Reagan Administration's State Department.

Marc Grossman
Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs. He was Director General of the Foreign Service and Director of Human Resources at the Department of State. Grossman is one of many of the pro-Israel Jewish officials from the Clinton Administration that Bush has promoted to higher posts.

Richard Haass
Director of Policy Planning at the State Department and Ambassador at large. He is also Director of National Security Programs and Senior Fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR). He was one of the more hawkish pro-Israel Jews in the first Bush (Sr) Administration who sat on the National Security Council, and who consistently advocated going to war against Iraq. Haass is also a member of the Defense Department's National Security Study Group, at the Pentagon.

Robert Zoellick
U.S. Trade Representative, a cabinet-level position. He is also one of the more hawkish pro-Israel Jews in the Bush (Jr) Administration who advocated invading Iraq and occupying a portion of the country in order to set up a Vichy-style puppet government. He consistently advocates going to war against Iran.

Ari Fleischer
Ex- White House Spokesman for the Bush (Jr) Administration. Prominent in the Jewish community, some reports state that he holds Israeli citizenship. Fleischer is closely connected to the extremist Jewish group called the Chabad Lubavitch Hasidics, who follow the Qabala, and hold very extremist and insulting views of non-Jews. Fleischer was the co-president of Chabad's Capitol Jewish Forum. He received the Young Leadership Award from the American Friends of Lubavitch in October, 2001.

James Schlesinger
One of many Pentagon Advisors, Schlesinger also sits on the Pentagon's Defense Policy Board under Perle and is another extremist pro-Israel advisor, who supported going to war against Iraq. Schlesinger is also a commissioner of the Defense Department's National Security Study Group, at the Pentagon.

David Frum
White House speechwriter behind the "Axis of Evil" label. He lumped together all the lies and accusations against Iraq for Bush to justify the war.

Joshua Bolten
White House Deputy Chief of Staff, Bolten was previously a banker, former legislative aide, and prominent in the Jewish community.

John Bolton
Former UN Representative and Under-Secretary of State for Arms Control and International Security. Bolton is also a Senior Advisor to President Bush. Prior to this position, Bolton was Senior Vice President of the above mentioned pro-Israel thinktank, AEI. He recently (October 2002) accused Syria of having a nuclear program, so that they can attack Syria after Iraq. He must have forgotten that Israel has 400 nuclear warheads, some of which are thermonuclear weapons (according to a recent U.S. Air Force report).

David Wurmser
Special Assistant to John Bolton (above), the under-secretary for arms control and international security. Wurmser also worked at the AEI with Perle and Bolton. His wife, Meyrav Wurmser, along with Colonel Yigal Carmon, formerly of Israeli military intelligence, co-founded the Middle East Media Research Institute (Memri),a Washington-based Israeli outfit which distributes articles translated from Arabic newspapers portraying Arabs in a bad light.

Eliot Cohen
Member of the Pentagon's Defense Policy Board under Perle and is another extremist pro-Israel advisor. Like Adelman, he often expresses extremist and often ridiculus anti-Arab and anti-Muslim views. More recently, he wrote an opinion article in the Wall Street Journal openly admitting his rascist hatred of Islam claiming that Islam should be the enemy, not terrorism.

Mel Sembler
President of the Export-Import Bank of the United States. A Prominent Jewish Republican and Former National Finance Chairman of the Republican National Committee. The Export-Import Bank facilitates trade relationships between U.S. businesses and foreign countries, specifically those with financial problems.

Steve Goldsmith
Senior Advisor to the President, and Bush's Jewish domestic policy advisor. He also served as liaison in the White House Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives (White House OFBCI) within the Executive Office of the President. He was the former mayor of Indianapolis. He is also friends with Israeli Jerusalem Mayor Ehud Olmert and often visits Israel to coach mayors on privatization initiatives.

Adam Goldman
White House's Special Liaison to the Jewish Community.

Joseph Gildenhorn
Bush Campaign's Special Liaison to the Jewish Community. He was the DC finance chairman for the Bush campaign, as well as campaign coordinator, and former ambassador to Switzerland.

Christopher Gersten
Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary, Administration for Children and Families at HHS. Gersten was the former Executive Director of the Republican Jewish Coalition, Husband of Labor Secretary.

Mark Weinberger
Assistant Secretary of Housing and Urban Development for Public Affairs.

Samuel Bodman
Deputy Secretary of Commerce. He was the Chairman and CEO of Cabot Corporation in Boston, Massachusetts.

Bonnie Cohen
Under Secretary of State for Management.

Ruth Davis
Director of Foreign Service Institute, who reports to the Office of Under Secretary for Management. This Office is responsible for training all Department of State staff (including ambassadors).

Daniel Kurtzer
Ambassador to Israel.

Cliff Sobel
Ambassador to the Netherlands.

Stuart Bernstein
Ambassador to Denmark.

Nancy Brinker
Ambassador to Hungary

Frank Lavin
Ambassador to Singapore.

Ron Weiser
Ambassador to Slovakia.

Mel Sembler
Ambassador to Italy.

Martin Silverstein
Ambassador to Uruguay.

Lincoln Bloomfield
Assistant Secretary of State for Political Military Affairs.

Jay Lefkowitz
Deputy Assistant to the President and Director of the Domestic Policy Council.

Ken Melman
White House Political Director.

Brad Blakeman
White House Director of Scheduling.

All of them have "dual citizenship"?

How can that info be verified? Thanks for posting. I'm speechless.

You're Asking the Wrong Question

You should ask, why should Israel be trusted? The burden of proof is on Israel. Trust must be earned and while one individual earning the trust of another is quite possible, one group of individuals trusting another group is entirely a different animal. Hence the concept of entangling alliances

Can the U.S. be Trusted?

I'm a screenwriter, and a common theme in movies is, "Who can you trust?"

I always assume that people in other countries are like the people here: some conservative, some liberal, some libertarian, some statists, some damaged and dysfunctional, same driven by a quest for fame, love, revenge, power, anger, envy, freedom.

What is a country? It has no brain and no soul of its own--no, you can't trust a country.

On the whole, I think the countries in the Middle East would be better off without governments or borders, and had something more akin to Home Owners Associations, where you choose your neighborhood and what rules you want. After a couple of generations, the old problems would have sorted themselves out.

What do you think? http://consequeries.com/

How about a big who cares?

I don't care about Israel one way or another. My feeling is that anybody who wants to support Israel or any other country is perfectly within their rights to dig into their bank accounts and send them whatever money they feel okay with. I've got better things to spend my money on. If it weren't for the media and our politicos in Washington, we would barely even ever have heard of Israel. Not to mention Syria, Lebanon, Vietnam, Korea, and so on indefinitely. What's with trust or not trust? Let them take care of their own business and let's take care of ours. Our "interests" in the middle east aren't ours at all. I don't know anybody who has an "interest" in the middle east. It's politics, big oil, and military industrial complex "interests."

Because

a friend of a friend's cousin's boyfriend saw Israel totally cheating at hopscotch.

Or maybe because because no 'state' should be trusted, especially not ones who constantly push for war.

Really it's about entangling alliances and how the U.S shouldn't be involved with telling other countries how to act, or vise versa (this could also be said about Germany, Japan, etc.). Nothing wrong with being friendly towards another nation on a personal or even a political level, but it's at the point where U.S. foreign policy is centered around Israel, both literally and figuratively. IMO, it hurts both countries in the long run.

Finally, it's not just about Zionism or Zionist Jews, either, though both certainly have their roles. There are also many evangelical Christians who are trying to bring about a self-fulfilled 'end times' prophecy via perpetual war in the Middle-East. Well, that's what a lot of them tell me anyway; obviously religion is only one of many ways to sell a war to a population. Still, I'd rather not have a bunch of religious hardliners running around trying to destroy the world because they think it'll make Jesus come back.

A signature used to be here!

Why is this never asked about ...

Canada or England or Japan etc., etc.

The fact that the obsession is only about Israel, should tell you something.

The Mexican lobby drained billions thru NAFTA.

Japan bombed pearl harbor and continues to use our military as its own.

And if it ain't about blood or treasure, then it must be about the Jews.

Right?

That's easy to answer...

Neither the Canadian, nor the English,nor the Japanese, nor the Mexican "lobby" exist as a political powerhouse in both parties of our government. Neither, at the drop of a hat, or the lifting of a phone can (or more importantly do...) affect the longevity of any single political career. But AIPAC can and does select and control virtually any seat in the American Congress that it wishes to. It, alone and beyond any other political lobby in Washington receives a Kow-Towing that isn't in evidence anywhere else. And people can see this and attach it to our foreign policy and the very blowback that we experience.

I have loved Jewish people as friends and lovers all of my life...even lost my virginity to one. I haven't an anti-semitic bone in my body. I don't even understand such things. But Israel and her influence and control of my government? Well....I don't like THAT.

Wha? .....hey....who stole my country?

In the 1980's

Japan was buying U.S. real estate.

In fact, I think they bought the Empire State Building.

They were also installing car plants over here at that time.

And the same scarey things you are saying about Israel is what they were saying about Japan.

The Japanese lobby has bought D.C. The Japanese are going to put our car companies out of business.

The xenophopia was directed at Japan and the hatred and filthy, dirty, disgusting rhetoric that is being used against Israel was also being used at that time against Japan.

The issue is what OUR congressmen are doing. Not what their leaders are doing.

And if you disagree, you are anti-semitic, no matter your level of denial or the number of Jews you screwed.

God Bless.

rhino

this apples and oranges comparison shows me you have no clue on this subject.

Jackson County Georgia

War is an instrument entirely inefficient toward redressing wrong; and multiplies, instead of indemnifying losses.
Thomas Jefferson

Why is it apples and oranges?

Explain it to me.

In 2011 we gave over $20 billion in economic and military aid to the Arab countries in the middle east. We gave just about $3 billion to Israel.

Let's say we cut Israel to zero and knock $3 billion off the aid to the Arab countries.

Would your hatred for Israel go away?

Why?
Why not?

rhino

dont put words in my mouth you GOP shill. This is the hannitty/limbaugh illogical schtick. "If you dont LOVE isreal and everything they say and do and you arent ready to kill our youth in wars on their behalf, then you hate them."
I dont hate them.

apples and oranges - ok, I'll explain a little
You seriously think the infaltration into all high levels of our government by Israelis(and the subsequent issues?) is the same as the Japanese?? ahahahahaha!!!! ahhahahahahaha!!! You a moron?

You think these israeli's "public service" to the USA is some sort of honorable thing like an Eagle Scout???
ahahahahahahha!!!!

Where's the document published by Japanese folks in collaboraiton with folks within our own government expressing the view of "another Pearl Harbor" to solidify US hegemony?

If we cut ALL middle east foreign aid, israel would benefit greatly. If you paid attention to Ron Paul, you'd know that.

Jackson County Georgia

War is an instrument entirely inefficient toward redressing wrong; and multiplies, instead of indemnifying losses.
Thomas Jefferson

So no matter what we do ...

If we cut off all aid to Israel and put all that money into the Arab countries ...

If we denounce all alliances with Israel ...

If we treat Israel like we treat Canada or Mexico or Japan ...

Then you would still hate Israel?

We'll...no matter how many years go by...

...or however many jews I screw...I guess some things can never change...you are still, and will apparently always be, an asshole.

YDHAR!

(You definitely have a role)

Wha? .....hey....who stole my country?

I am sorry you feel that way.

Sometimes the truth hurts.

Yep, and sometimes assholes can't quit...

being themselves. Sorry for hurting your feelings with the truth.

Wha? .....hey....who stole my country?

You didn't hurt my feelings.

I didn't call you names.

I am not emotional about this.

I merely stated the facts.

You are the one that is emotional about this.

You are the one that is expressing hate.

You hate Israel and you hate me.

No big deal.

At least you are honest with your feelings about me.

You have shown me respect by being honest with me.

God Bless.

Hmmmmm....

Seems to me you called me an anti-semite for disagreeing. In most corners of the world that is "name calling" and quite incendiary when one doesn't hold such kant.

I didn't express hate either, except maybe for you...no respect intended.

God Damn.

Wha? .....hey....who stole my country?

Point taken.

And I am sorry you feel that way.

Maybe someday you will figure it out.

In my naive youth I used to be the same way.

Full of bigotry and denial.

I have grown up a bit since then and you can too.

If a bugger like me can learn, then anybody can.

God Bless.