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G. Edward Griffin sez the strawman is all hokum

IS THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT A CORPORATION?
IF TRUE, SO WHAT?

© 2007 by G. Edward Griffin. Revised 2007 December 17.

A common assertion made by those who are unhappy with the declining state of freedom in America is that this can be traced to an 1871 act of Congress that established Washington DC and, at the same time, converted the United States from a constitutional republic to a corporation.

Secondary claims attached to this hypothesis are that this is the reason the official wording was changed from Constitution for The United States of America to Constitution of The United States of America and also why all capital letters are used in the name instead of upper and lower case letters. They claim that this Act of 1871 abolished the original constitutional government and created a legal fiction that became financially indebted to and controlled by international bankers.

A forceful example of this view can be found on the Internet at www.serendipity.li/jsmill/us_corporation.htm.

More:
http://www.freedomforceinternational.org/freedomcontent.cfm?...

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Must stop

Speaking in vogon, it helps

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

Modus operandi

You are just trying to protect your pocket book. When your on your death bed, you will admit you have made a fool of yourself. Enjoy the dream.

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Yes exactly

Cause I GET PAID SO MUCH TO DISCUSS LAW WITH A FOOL LIKE YOU.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

...

A wise man can listen to a fool and become wiser but a fool always fails to listen.

We don't want your babylon system.

http://youtu.be/bb-SjlhHCIM

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you'r nuts

why is it "my babylon system" because I actually do things that HELP people when I go to court, handle cases, etc?

Why is it not your babylon system when you offer snake oil and fake legal hoaxes that sound good but don't work?

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

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Your good at taking money for peoples time. Selling them horse shit and grovelling before the state after doing all the paperwork that already seals them in. It is the babylon system. It is not I who needs help. It is you. Your part of the fraud. The big lie and you don't even know it. A useless pawn.

I conditional accept your argument as valid upon a bona fide claim that you are not committing fraud and racketeering.

I have gone to court with my friends before. I am council but not an attorney or lawyer. You haven't seen nothing yet.

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do you know how ridiculous that sounds?

You're an expert because "I have gone to court with my friends before." Well, we've all done that.

I don't care what you think you are "conditional accepting" or even if you unconditionally reject everything I'm saying.

You think that because I'm a lawyer I'm responsible for all the evils of the banking and legal and police and all other systems. i get it. But someone, the professor you know, who is a lawyer, isn't. And your wife, who was a lawyer, wasn't. I suspect you have no further pearls of wisdom here.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

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I am no expert however I do know some. I never said a dead wife isn't responsible or never eventually understood it. My pearl is the fact that it isn't what you say it is. That there is something deeper at work here and you are just following orders and not setting the example proper to a free society.

Your making far too many assumptions for a man in your line of work. You can always count on a crook to have short term thinking.

Those paper chains have bonded your body and mind.

Let it be known that reason was right there standing in front of you when you lost sight of the gates of heaven.

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oh well

I guess you'll have to unleash your winged buttmonkeys to come n git me. Eitehr that or exhume the missus and have her do it. Your choice loser.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

...

The wizard of ounces.
The golden brick rode.
The silver slippers.
The man behind the curtain.

Don't you know your propaganda or do we have to explain everything to you. You must be young and dumb or old and clever.

http://freedom-school.com/the_wizard_of_oz.pdf

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Disagree

There is a historical record of what the founding fathers intended and no, it wasn't that each individual gets to say whether they consent to each law after it was passed.

It's hard to tell, but you MAY have some points about how are representative system doesn't represent very well, either numerically or I'm terms of its actual result. But that is hard to tell from your writing.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

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In order for a contract to be valid, it must be signed by at least two people. Two people cannot make a contract and enforce it on the third. The Constitution is just a contract. The declaration of independence is just a document. This is a thinking problem.

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Agree it is a thinking problem

However you are the one with that problem. ;)

A constitution is not "merely a contract"

Citizens of a country governed by a constitution aren't "third parties"

Of course the Declaration of Independence is a document. But that has nothing , or very little, to do with the subject other than further being a source for founders' intent.

Again, there is an historical record of what was intended, including case law from early days, which says nothing like what you are saying.

Great handle by the way.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

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In what way can you confer that the Constitution of the United States of America is anything more than a contract? Some claim it is a charter because it is clear and evident by the first few lines of Federal Code that states the USA is a corporation.

What is your definition of Citizen?

One of the sovereign people. A constituent member of sovereignty, synonymous with the people
19 How. 404.

A member of a civil state entitled to all its privileges
Cooley, Const. Law, 77.

I don't mind continuing with the case law argument but please bring some content and not hearsay.

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Look

You're wrong about so many things that take too much time. Go to a real law book and find out.

The US is not a corporation. It has a corporation, bu, you're Internet myth is false. But so what? That has nothing to do with our discussion really.

You haven't stated why you think the first few lines of the car compel that reasoning.

And a constitution is not merely a contract. Where'd you get that one? Some diction Ina YouTube video?

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

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Your so upset. Please provide me a bona fide Law book, oh great giver of law. Those are definitions from Black's Law Dictionary, 1st Ed.

Please tell me where and when the United States was conceived and born? Who is the father and mother?

If the US has a corporation, than what kind or type of Entity is the US that you say is not a corporation?

Definitions according to US Code.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/28/3002

Notice how the definition does not include "of America."

You have only one right. The unlimited right to contract. Please tell me how anyone can take away my un-a-lien-able right.

People are governed by consent. Any other way is tyranny. I must consent to a contract I have not signed or I am not a party to it.

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Hmm

Try one of the con law hornbooks, Tribe is a good one. Should cover all of this. You'll not like the answers.

Now I know you'd like to get me chasing my tail to prove the legal history and basis of every bit of common know,edge that is employed in our courts. But really, where is your backup? You make the preposterous, or at least unusual claims, what's your basis?

It certainly isn't case law.

It's not framers intent.

What is it other than fanciful thinking of armchair dilettantes , which you likely derived from youtube videos. My hose are of course hearsay. Where are your source documents?

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

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You lost me when you said your an attorney. I married and buried one already.

Your in way deeper than your head. I have my success without being a crook.

You will never answer the hard questions because you are a shill working for the state.

We can talk again after you have put a attorney in the ground.

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Working for the state

So do you get paid by the motor vehicle bureau? Why not, you have a drivers license. Or did you fail that test too?

Look, a lot of women awyers can be hard edged. Sorry to hear about your failed marriage. I bet she took you to the cleaners and you've got all kinds of resentment that you haven't worked out through more healthy means. Yep, you're a perfect mark for someone spewing and selling sov cit nonsense.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

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She died and left me everything. She was good friends with a contracts professor from a notable college. I still talk with him from time to time.

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That's nice

Does he think you're a kook? Or is this one of those unverifiable appeals to authority, as if knowing someone socially makes you an expert in their field of expertise?

Or is it your point that, your behavior here excepted, there are still people out there who will associate with you?

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

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She thought that I had what it takes. I guess we all can't be on the front lines.

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yeah

okay, so again it is "I knew a lawyer who said nice things about me".

That doesn't prove your point now doe sit.

It rather makes you look desperate for validation, which you are. And given what you're saying, you should be.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

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I'm not a lawyer. I don't need to feel validated. It is what it is. I have heard your arguments before and they have been found wanting. Maybe after you have been in the cult for a few decades, your eye will open. The point is you are missing the point.

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I'm all for the purpose of this site

i.e., for restoring constitutional government. That is my "paradigm." I'm not for your gibberish.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

...

Your for listening to yourself talk.

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Great article by Griffin.

Great article by Griffin.

Simple Facts and Plain Arguments
A common sense take on politics and current events.

www.simplefactsplainarguments.com

Big fan of Griffin

Ever since I read Creature from Jekyll Island, at the recommendation of a friend who followed Ron Paul.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

The strawman is all bunk...

because it is your status in law that must be understood. Several questions relate:

1. To what jurisdiction are you subject?
2. What have you done to provide evidence of your subjegation to that jurisdiction?
3. To which jurisdiction would you wish to be subject. I mean, under which law system do you wish to be held accountable along with others.
4. In which territory will you find a lawful body politic which provides such a jurisdiction?

Hint: There are currently Fifty countries (Fifty states) with sovereignty over their land, who have their own nationalities in the Union of American Republics. The corporate agent for the Union, aka The United States, is not one of them.

~ Engage in the war of attrition: http://pacalliance.us/redamendment/

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I am not a subject of the King. I assure you that you are incompetent.

Where did the states get sovereignty from?

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