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G. Edward Griffin sez the strawman is all hokum

IS THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT A CORPORATION?
IF TRUE, SO WHAT?

© 2007 by G. Edward Griffin. Revised 2007 December 17.

A common assertion made by those who are unhappy with the declining state of freedom in America is that this can be traced to an 1871 act of Congress that established Washington DC and, at the same time, converted the United States from a constitutional republic to a corporation.

Secondary claims attached to this hypothesis are that this is the reason the official wording was changed from Constitution for The United States of America to Constitution of The United States of America and also why all capital letters are used in the name instead of upper and lower case letters. They claim that this Act of 1871 abolished the original constitutional government and created a legal fiction that became financially indebted to and controlled by international bankers.

A forceful example of this view can be found on the Internet at www.serendipity.li/jsmill/us_corporation.htm.

More:
http://www.freedomforceinternational.org/freedomcontent.cfm?...

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I suspect that you may be a

I suspect that you may be a "stateless person." Good luck without unity or territory.

~ Engage in the war of attrition: http://pacalliance.us/redamendment/

They don't have sovereignty, the People do.

But that sure hasn't stopped the States or the Feds from assuming sovereignty OVER the People and turning the sovereigns into subjects.

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Good point. I think it's an intellectual problem. I have had many successes but I see where people get it wrong. You have to hold the people accountable financially or it's a null point. Arguing gets no where. Like arguing with a armed robber.

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Sov

Sovereignty is held jointly by the people of the us.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

Sovereignty is actually held

Sovereignty is actually held by the lawful bodies politic of the several States according to the law of the sevral states: their Constitutions. They are called states because the people embody a "state" of unity in law and territory.

The United States does not posses a true body politic. The United States is not a State of the Union. US citizens are subjects to a territory, The Distric of Columbia, which is not a state, and is NOT guaranteed a Republican form of government. The 13th Amendment abolished private slavery in the form of involuntary servitude, and the 14th Amendment embraced public slavery as voluntary servitude in the form of Federal citizenship.

There is no sovereignty held by US citizens. They are ruled. Period. They have pledged allegiance to a thing, which according to international law, is an international agent for the participating countries in the Union, not a country in its self.

I wish it were not so, but so it is. It has been the plan all along. Marxism has been alive and well on these shores for well near 150 years because no one seemed to notice, or care to know the law.

~ Engage in the war of attrition: http://pacalliance.us/redamendment/

Partially right

The people jointly held sovereignty, which like innate human right, comes from God. They delegate it to their states/colonies who delegated it to the federal govt. the civil war era amendments changed how that works, for better or worse, but sovereignty comes first from God to the people.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

Your response and my comment

Your response and my comment are not mutually exclusive.

~ Engage in the war of attrition: http://pacalliance.us/redamendment/

wasn't clear on that

but if that is what you meant, then great. Glad to see someone here has read the Constitution! It is correct that the States delegated authorities in certain areas to the federal govt.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

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Joint and severable. However can't apply to third parties or parties that have not yet been conceived or born till after the fact. For example, your not born with a contract to any man.

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blabber, with a twist

the phrase is "joint and several." It is a term that is used for describing when more than one defendant is liable for the whole of a judgment. It is an actual legal term, so I give you credit for that (even if you missed spelling it correctly). But it has nothing to do whatsoever with Constitutional interpretation and the issue of whether or how sovereignty is held by the people.

By mis-using the phrase with the word "severable" you were probably intentionally misstating it, trying to sound vaguely legal, but implying that one could "sever" sovereignty. There is no such term of art in constitutional interpretation, and you're just lying.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

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No I did not misspell a word. Your making a point of being unprovable.

Severable:
Admitting of severance or separation, capable of being divided; capable of being severed from other things to which it is joined, and yet maintaining a complete and independent existence.
- Black's Law Dictionary, 1st Ed.

http://blacks.worldfreemansociety.org/1/S/s-1088.jpg

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the point you fail to understand

There is still no application of either "joint and several" or "joint and severable" to constitutional interpretation or the issue of whether one has sovereignty.

Of course severable is a word. That avoids the issue, which is of course what you want to do.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

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No, your really making too many assumptions.

Your logic is a failure.

Are we the sovereign people of the United States of America or are we not?

In order for something to be given, it must be had.

Where did the state get's its sovereignty from? Is the United States of America sovereign?

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I've already addressed this in this very thread

God gives sovereignty to the people.

Now, you may or may not believe that an ideal political governmental system would say that each individual holds his sovereignty severally. That is what anarchists believe. You are of course free to believe that such is ideal and that any system that doens't recognize this is a crappy one which is evil. That's your right to have that opinion.

However, that is not the system that our founding fathers created. The sovereignty is held jointly by the people, and delegated to the states, who delegated it to the federal govt. The civil war era amendments changed the way that works.

Again, that may not coincide with your personal concept of wonderland. But here in the real world, that is the way it was conceptualized for the USA.

If you can find some authority from a legal scholar that says the founders intended people to be able to decide on consenting to laws after they are passed, or to revoke consent on individual laws or acts after they're passed, then I would like to see it. Of course, a law can be revoked or repealed and there are processes for that which involve something more than a doofus saying "I don't consent." Not just a youtube video, but something compelling, like a law school textbook, or a case holding, or a statement from a founding father.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

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"God gives sovereignty to the people."

I am one of the people.

You have double think. What's your power trip all about?

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quote mining

is a typical ruse used by sovereign citizens and purveyors of other, related legal hoaxes. Just as you did here, they quote one thing out of context, then ignore the rest, which does not support their hypothesis. After all, why tell the whole truth, when you can lie to people with only part of it!

Sort of like saying that because you found the word "severable" in a dictionary that means that sovereignty is held "jointly and severably" by the people. Hint: You're a liar and it isn't.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

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You have strong beliefs. I think you act like a big man, but you are a little man. You have no bona fide claim. It's all just opinions. From my experience, people with strong beliefs are victims of corporate brain washing. You are the man who carries one book.

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not true

I carry several books. Sometimes people with strong beliefs actually know what they are talking about, because, for example, they might have actually gone to school and studied a subject, then practiced it for a career for two decades.

Others, like you, are dillettantes. Dillettantes have little background in a subject, but like to fake it for one reason or another.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

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Read the Declaration of Independence. I think the draft copy is striking if you get a chance to see it. Your not impressive by any stretch. At least, I'm not swooning at your grammar skills. You practiced but you never actually did anything. I can't say you have anything beside one story to tell. What has led you to your current entanglement.

I have already seen proof otherwise.

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swoon at my grammar skills

but only after you learn how to spell the you're! One thing about us lawyers, all we ever do is practice!

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

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It's not Justice. It's Just Us.

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Sloganeering bullcrap

Equally vapid

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

a A friend of mine posted

a
A friend of mine posted this on facebook today. I think it's relevant.

"YOU ARE WAY PAST BEING INVOLVED IN EVIL

"I was recently advised by a friend that in order to donate plasma (blood) to benefit others in need, you must provide a TIN (Tax Identification Number, a.k.a., Social Security Number). This requirement is so they can send you a taxing statement (1099) for the money they give you in exchange.

"Think about that one.

"The point is, those who are part of this governmental system as US citizens* are totally enslaved. The fact is, you do not own your body: your owners own it. You are involved in evil that you obviously have no comprehension of understanding or you would not be participating in it.

"Contracting with Satan (the works of men) is merciless.
______
"* Your blood and labor are your property. They are a gift from the Creator. But you do not own them under this governmental system; your owners own you. You are part of the public and a slave:

"EG, “Slater's protestations to the effect that he derives no benefit from the United States government have no bearing on his legal obligation to pay income taxes. Unless the defendant can establish that he is not a citizen of the United States, the IRS possesses authority to attempt to determine his federal tax liability.” ~United States of America v. William M. Slater (D. Delaware) 545 F.Supp 179, 182 (1982)"

~ Engage in the war of attrition: http://pacalliance.us/redamendment/

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God made man. Man made corporations. In that order. Just as man cannot strike god down, so is it that a corporation cannot strike a man down. Only by consent. Every prisoner in jail is their by consent. They have their signature on it.

Ignore the scum of the earth calling himself the Law giver.

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Which benefits have you

Which benefits have you contracted for in the Law of Man: Social Security, drivers licence, professional license, corporate charter, the new national health insurance.. tax.. thing, &etc. If youve, contracted for any benefits or privilages from the federal government then you are a Federal person and have voluntarilly subjected youself to the direct authority and law of congress.

It doesn't matter what you say or claim in court if your actions contradict you.

learn about the perversion of the 14th Amendment. nullify your contracts, and repudiate your Federal citizenship. Get the f out now before the nuse gets too tight to get off and jion the growing number of State Nationals who are the truly free and rightful bodies politic in the Union.

~ Engage in the war of attrition: http://pacalliance.us/redamendment/

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Very good points. They are cohesion contracts and living men have the right to revoke them. Court is little more than a con game for con artists. All that matters is the record and it can always be corrected.

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Not logical

So you really think all those prisoners consent?

Again, you have your own little world, where consent involves now iron bars and barbed wire.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

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Booking. They signed during booking. I would never sign and if I did, I would "Arm's length", No recourse, non assumpsit, all rights reserved, etc. I would demand to see the magistrate within 72 hours and get the names of each of the officers/office holders involved. Title 18 and Title 42 for all of them and have the oath of office on the record. Then lien each and every bond while making sure to call risk assessment on every single one of them.

You don't even know how to fight a court case. Your just a pencil pusher for the state. Cases are not won in court. Cases are won at the bank.

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oh ok is that how it works

so again, you're smarter than all of them...

They all went and AGREED to be prisoners yessirree bob.

You're an idiot.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

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"All crimes are commercial."

Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.

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