-38 votes

Ancient Confession Found: 'We Invented Jesus Christ' Why governments create false histories and false gods.

I know, this is like the fart in church. I'm not posting this to be antagonistic. I happened to be one of those that don't believe in Christianity but accept that this is what most people in my community believe. I get along just the same....Since we like to question institutions around here then whats wrong with questioning this?

Anyway, check this out as point of conversation:

Ancient Confession Found: 'We Invented Jesus Christ'
Biblical scholars will be appearing at the 'Covert Messiah' Conference at Conway Hall in London on the 19th of October to present this controversial discovery to the British public.

London (PRWEB UK) 8 October 2013

American Biblical scholar Joseph Atwill will be appearing before the British public for the first time in London on the 19th of October to present a controversial new discovery: ancient confessions recently uncovered now prove, according to Atwill, that the New Testament was written by first-century Roman aristocrats and that they fabricated the entire story of Jesus Christ. His presentation will be part of a one-day symposium entitled "Covert Messiah" at Conway Hall in Holborn (full details can be found at http://www.covertmessiah.com).

Although to many scholars his theory seems outlandish, and is sure to upset some believers, Atwill regards his evidence as conclusive and is confident its acceptance is only a matter of time. "I present my work with some ambivalence, as I do not want to directly cause Christians any harm," he acknowledges, "but this is important for our culture. Alert citizens need to know the truth about our past so we can understand how and why governments create false histories and false gods. They often do it to obtain a social order that is against the best interests of the common people."

Atwill asserts that Christianity did not really begin as a religion, but a sophisticated government project, a kind of propaganda exercise used to pacify the subjects of the Roman Empire. "Jewish sects in Palestine at the time, who were waiting for a prophesied warrior Messiah, were a constant source of violent insurrection during the first century," he explains. "When the Romans had exhausted conventional means of quashing rebellion, they switched to psychological warfare. They surmised that the way to stop the spread of zealous Jewish missionary activity was to create a competing belief system. That's when the 'peaceful' Messiah story was invented. Instead of inspiring warfare, this Messiah urged turn-the-other-cheek pacifism and encouraged Jews to 'give onto Caesar' and pay their taxes to Rome."

Was Jesus based on a real person from history? "The short answer is no," Atwill insists, "in fact he may be the only fictional character in literature whose entire life story can be traced to other sources. Once those sources are all laid bare, there's simply nothing left."

Atwill's most intriguing discovery came to him while he was studying "Wars of the Jews" by Josephus [the only surviving first-person historical account of first-century Judea] alongside the New Testament. "I started to notice a sequence of parallels between the two texts," he recounts. "Although it's been recognised by Christian scholars for centuries that the prophesies of Jesus appear to be fulfilled by what Josephus wrote about in the First Jewish-Roman war, I was seeing dozens more. What seems to have eluded many scholars is that the sequence of events and locations of Jesus ministry are more or less the same as the sequence of events and locations of the military campaign of [Emperor] Titus Flavius as described by Josephus. This is clear evidence of a deliberately constructed pattern. The biography of Jesus is actually constructed, tip to stern, on prior stories, but especially on the biography of a Roman Caesar."

How could this go unnoticed in the most scrutinised books of all time? "Many of the parallels are conceptual or poetic, so they aren't all immediately obvious. After all, the authors did not want the average believer to see what they were doing, but they did want the alert reader to see it. An educated Roman in the ruling class would probably have recognised the literary game being played." Atwill maintains he can demonstrate that "the Roman Caesars left us a kind of puzzle literature that was meant to be solved by future generations, and the solution to that puzzle is 'We invented Jesus Christ, and we're proud of it.'"

Is this the beginning of the end of Christianity? "Probably not," grants Atwill, "but what my work has done is give permission to many of those ready to leave the religion to make a clean break. We've got the evidence now to show exactly where the story of Jesus came from. Although Christianity can be a comfort to some, it can also be very damaging and repressive, an insidious form of mind control that has led to blind acceptance of serfdom, poverty, and war throughout history. To this day, especially in the United States, it is used to create support for war in the Middle East."

Atwill encourages skeptics to challenge him at Conway Hall, where after the presentations there is likely to be a lively Q&A session. Joining Mr.Atwill will be fellow scholar Kenneth Humphreys, author of the book "Jesus Never Existed."

Further information can be found at http://www.covertmessiah.com.

About Joseph Atwill: Joseph Atwill is the author of the best-selling book "Caesar's Messiah" and its upcoming sequel "The Single Strand."

http://uk.prweb.com/releases/2013/10/prweb11201273.htm?utm_s...



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For Crying Out Loud!!!

This is the 4th thread of this same nonsense in 2 days that has wormed its way to the top of the pack, do you guys not pay attention to others promoting this crap? Seriously, up-vote the other threads if this stuff appeals to you, but all of this continual promotion is literally turning into spam.

“My attitude toward progress has passed from antagonism to boredom. I have long ceased to argue with people who prefer Thursday to Wednesday because it is Thursday.” - G.K. Chesterton

You do realize anything on

You do realize anything on this site that is ant-Christian gets down voted to hell right? Its impossible for a thread like this to stay upfront

You do realize that

the only reason I saw this thread or the other 3 on this subject is because it got onto the top early on, and still has a lot of activity so is still showing up despite being down voted right to hell.

Having said that, seeing how badly this and the others has done in the voting department does show a superior intelligence level of the regular visitors to this website, so my annoyance has subsided a bit.

“My attitude toward progress has passed from antagonism to boredom. I have long ceased to argue with people who prefer Thursday to Wednesday because it is Thursday.” - G.K. Chesterton

For "libertarians",....

... they are no less meddlers than any common neocon, feeling obliged to meddle into Christians life to teach them about Christianity and into Jews lives to teach them how to treat Palestinians, even though NEITHER are any of their business.

I'm sorry, what was your point here?

I want to make sure I'm not misunderstanding your intent with this post, but my response here was not meant to suggest any meddling on the part of the OP into how I perceive Christianity (they'd need more intelligent arguments in order to accomplish this), and conflating me objecting to people spamming up this site with inane, ridiculous nonsense with criticizing the horrid treatment that Israel visits on Palestine comes off as a bit kooky.

By the standard you are setting here, libertarians could be likened to meddlers for pushing the non-aggression principle and depriving those poor government agents of the joy of abusing people physically and psychologically in order to suite their own worldviews. It's not a matter of someone meddling, it's why they are meddling, or what sort of thing they are pushing in their meddling per say.

“My attitude toward progress has passed from antagonism to boredom. I have long ceased to argue with people who prefer Thursday to Wednesday because it is Thursday.” - G.K. Chesterton

I was replying in agreement with you.

And I +1'ed your reply. :)

Gotcha, I think I misread your post.

.

“My attitude toward progress has passed from antagonism to boredom. I have long ceased to argue with people who prefer Thursday to Wednesday because it is Thursday.” - G.K. Chesterton

This video seems notable:

This video seems notable:

Joseph Atwill debunked:

Atwill's Covert Messiah refuted

Thanks for the video, b.

When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the Universe.
~ John Muir

Excellent rebuttal.

Yeah, it just doesn't make any sense that the Romans would want to invent and spread a religion that implored its followers to look to a King, a God, higher than Caesar as the authority they gave their allegiance to. Once it was already spreading like wildfire, of course, Rome jumped on the bandwagon to attempt to channel and control it.

I've seen that some early sources also point to Britain as having had churches being established not long after Christ's ascension, around the time of Paul, independent of Rome. That would conflict with this theory as well.

Ridiculous notion.

Who benefited from the "invention of Christ?" Christianity is alive and well and growing. Where is the Roman Empire? Christianity ultimately led to the downfall of the Roman Empire so it didn't work out so well for them. Not to mention the fact that this would have to be the conspiracy to end all conspiracies. The Bible is an incredibly unified piece of literature. It was written over a 1,500 year time period by over 40 different authors from various backgrounds and cultures, in 13 different countries, in 3 different languages, and in many different literary styles. Despite all of that, it contains one consistent theme from cover to cover, which is God's plan for the salvation of mankind. There are things written in The Bible that PREDATES historical finds that eventually backed up The Bible. When people tell me that The Bible is only a book and nothing more I can tell that they haven't read it. Once they do, they have a very different idea of what it is. Jesus Christ has stood the test of time despite the attacks from those that would wish to make him disappear. This attack will fail as well.

You're right

I thought it was just a book, then I read it, and you're absolutely right, I have a very different idea of what it is. I now see it as something that appears to have been constructed to control people.

I maintain that even if the Bible is true, I want nothing to do with this God. But, don't worry, I'd still die for your right to believe in Him.

Why would you die for that?

Because you believe in free will?
Because you believe that some things are true and others are not and that mankind can choose either?

I would agree with those two principles.

What? Uh...no...you obviously

What? Uh...no...you obviously completely miss the point of freedom. It has absolutely nothing to do with whether it is true or false.

What kind of...

...God would you want to have something to do with?

Most likely one who would not

Most likely one who would not sentence people to eternal damnation for picking the wrong set of rituals out of a few dozen choices minimum, after having created that person and given them a ton of "false clues" as to which set was the correct pick.

TelFire

There is no eternal damnation, we die in the flesh because of sin, the Bible clearly states of a second death, which will be the death of our soul if we dont follow the Laws of God. There is not such thing as burning in an eternal hell. No merciful God would have people roasting in a fire for eternity.

Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must. like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it.-Thomas Paine

The R3volution requires action, not observation!!!!

Exactly my point,

Exactly my point, unfortunately the God in the Bible is not described as what I would consider merciful, having gone on a number of rage-induced murderous rampages.

Keep reading

you haven't exhausted the subject.

I would suggest Tim Keller, C.S. Lewis, Jonathan Edwards. These are brilliant men.

"Once you become knowledgeable, you have an obligation to do something about it."- Ron Paul

No one ever exhausts any

No one ever exhausts any subject. I've always felt this attitude was a bit off. Like, your opinion is only different than mine because you've read more than me. Well, maybe so, but why isn't it your job to convince me at least of the fact that it's worth looking into more? Why should I spend more of my limited time on this earth trying to convince myself against something I firmly believe based on an already significant amount of research, simply because you said I haven't read enough? At what point does one have enough information to make a call and move on to doing something else?

You're right, I haven't read those authors (with the exception of Narnia), but such a significant portion of my life has been spent following this belief, and the discontent during that time has been so great, and the results have been so unfulfilling, and I have been left feeling so much emptier with so-called "faith" than without it, that at this point I would rather be completely wrong on the matter than to devote significant further time to the subject during this very finite life.

Better to be still

The Old Testament was written about mankind before the Redemption. It seems like the people then were more bold and God responded to them in a strong way.

I think reading should be for when you are looking for a specific detail or piece of information. Otherwise, you might just go crazy looking everywhere for answers. Better to keep peace in your soul, love truth, and be open to where it takes you. Maybe for some that DOES include thinking through the atheistic mindset. But I can not see how anyone can honestly, peacefully, lovingly, keep that view of life and eternity.

Its difficult

because you don't believe the Bible holds any weight so we don't really have a general consensus to build off of.

I also know my limits and don't want to represent Jesus poorly because I don't have all the answers or don't reason with you in a convincing or helpful way.

I believe relationships are the best way to explore beliefs together because you can see my character and who I am. A public online forum is a limited and poor context for such an important discussion.

So I tell people to read people smarter than me who I think might be more helpful. I just know you have probably heard all the tired arguments. If you want to know God and his purpose for the world you will.

"Once you become knowledgeable, you have an obligation to do something about it."- Ron Paul

No article holds any weight

No article holds any weight when discussing the truth of that article. That's just a flat out fact, that is not my 'belief'. It's like defining a word with itself, it is entirely meaningless.

Sorry

I am done biting. You don't believe so its futile.

"Once you become knowledgeable, you have an obligation to do something about it."- Ron Paul

So, you admit that you have

So, you admit that you have absolutely no proof outside the book itself to prove that the book is true?

The statement you replied to wasn't "bait". It was a simple fact. You can't use a book to prove itself. If you don't understand that, I really don't know what to say to you.

Yeah...

...I agree with you, actually; but I don't hold that view of what the Bible is presenting. I see it saying that God is Love; that He will reconcile all things in the cosmos through the peace of Christ.

I think those who claim eternal damnation as the end of the story for some are confusing the process of redemption (which can be a long, painful struggle when we grasp the things which are keeping us from Love and Truth too tightly) for pure retribution. The judgements and such are short-term repercussions in the working out of human history -- a complex dance of free wills; the pattern of the Bible, in my view, is ultimate restoration through reconciliation.

Well, based on the Bible that

Well, based on the Bible that I read, He is painted as a tyrant, and I honestly can't see how it could be interpreted otherwise unless the translation is extremely poor. In fact I've met Christians who are of the opinion that "God the Father" is indeed a total tyrant who is disgusted with his creation, and that it's only "God the Son" who has compassion and basically begged his dad to come die for us so we'd have a way to avoid Hell.

Now, there are a lot of different interpretations, and I agree that Hell may or may not be real depending on your interpretations... but that is honestly one of my other problems with it, it is widely interpretable, you can have it mean almost whatever you want it to mean. And even if you believe it you can't deny that it's been used to do terrible things.

The only way you can interperate the Bible correctly

is with a Strong's Concordance, it helped me alot when I used it alongside the Bible.

Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must. like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it.-Thomas Paine

The R3volution requires action, not observation!!!!

Really, so now not only do I

Really, so now not only do I have to read the right book, I have to have the right side-book or I'll interpret it wrong and go to hell anyway?

Fun.

That's the thing...

...about darkness, I guess, in all its forms, including authoritarianism: there is nothing it will not use, twist or bend in order to justify and propel itself -- religion, science, whatever. For sure, the ideas of 'God' and 'no God' have both been injected into various tyrannical movements when it has served the purposes of the perpetrators.

Regarding hell, I do believe it exists as a type of valley on the road to redemption, in which all of us must come to terms with letting go of the cancerous ways that have crept in through our decisions and actions that have taken us away from Love and Truth. The way of escape has been enabled and demonstrated through Christ -- dying to the old ways in which we are spiritually disintegrating, and, in Him, being transformed and restored with new life, as heirs of the King.

For some, this moment of transition begins within this earthly lifetime, and then they realize that up to that time, they have already been wandering in a kind of earthly hell, dying in their spiritual struggle.

For others who have not yet crossed that threshold, in the age to come, when the veil between our earthly existence and the deeper reality is removed, this experience of coming to terms with our spiritual struggles will only intensify when we are confronted with Truth, for as many aeons upon aeons as it will take for us to understand and choose to flee through Christ into the arms of our Father, Who is waiting to embrace the most wayward prodigal as His dear child.

This is the side of Love, the side of God that is like 'a consuming fire' -- it will not give up on us, but neither will it just coddle us as we decay. It will have us clean, but only by our own free will. We must get to the point where we would rather have God's purifying 'flame' burn away the chaff, separate the dross in ourselves, so that we can emerge as the pure gold we were always meant to be. To those who do all they can to resist this pull of Love, it will be a very painful struggle, letting go of non-Love. This struggle is hell. At least, these are my rambling musings and speculations about it (many Christians will vehemently disagree with my portrayal of opportunity for redemption after death.)

But I do think the translations are off when it comes to the word 'aionion' in the Greek being translated 'eternal' for this process. I think 'age-lasting' or 'of the age to come' are more accurate senses of the word. I imagine for some, like Hitler, for example, this road of redemption will be an especially protracted process of coming to terms with and owning every detail of horror he inflicted on his victims. Who knows how long this would take -- aeons upon aeons, perhaps. But I believe the roar of joy rising from the eternal city upon seeing that little boy that Hitler once was, one day aeons from now, entering through the gates that never shut, having 'washed his robe in the blood of the Lamb', will be deafening -- imagine what a victory of restoration! Anakin redeemed from Vader. Vader left behind with death in the flames; Anakin restored to who he was meant to be.

Sorry, this is kind of long already; but to your point about the Father seeming like a tyrant: I do not believe this is really true, because as Christ said of Himself, to have seen the Son is to have seen the Father, for the Son and the Father are One. So seeing the face of Love of the Son, means this is also the heart of the Father; and indeed the Father says He has 'no pleasure in the death' of anyone.

So what to make of the Flood, the judgements, etc.? Well, there are specific, mysterious hints in the NT that the victims of the Flood were yet to be restored through Christ, and in the OT, the Father demonstrates ultimate restoration of nations and peoples that had been in exile, or even destroyed: Judah, Israel, Egypt, Assyria, Edom -- even Sodom will be restored (Ezekiel 16). I believe this ultimately points to restoration in the 'New Jerusalem', or the heavenly 'city', through the redemption process described above. I do not believe that the perishing of any individual is the end of the story for them. Love will win -- they will win -- God will win, in the end!