21 votes

We can make the difference, ..we are the future!

PLEASE BUMP for Ron Paul's sake!

Ron Paul spent a lifetime trying to educate the masses about liberty, including us, and encouraged us to get involved. Let's make Ron Paul proud of what we learned from him.

We can look at what happened on Wednesday Oct 14, 2012 purely in a negative light, or turn it into a positive adventurous one.

We must see the great opportunity that exists; we now have 81 (YES votes) Republican / Democrat seats to go after in the Senate alone. 35 of those seats are up for grabs in 2014.

ObamaCare is the issue for the 2014 election, and the Democrats are very vulnerable on this one too. Our opportunities are unlimited!

WOW the field is wide open, let’s play ball!

Senate Seats: List of states who have senator seats available in 2014 elections. Find your state and get behind a conservative candidate!
1 Alabama
2 Alaska
3 Arkansas
4 Colorado
5 Delaware
6 Georgia
7 Hawaii (special)
8 Idaho
9 Illinois
10 Iowa
11 Kansas
12 Kentucky
13 Louisiana
14 Maine
15 Massachusetts
16 Michigan
17 Minnesota
18 Mississippi
19 Montana
20 Nebraska
21 New Hampshire
22 New Jersey
23 New Mexico
24 North Carolina
25 Oklahoma
26 Oregon
27 Rhode Island
28 South Carolina
29 South Carolina (special)
30 South Dakota
31 Tennessee
32 Texas
33 Virginia
34 West Virginia
35 Wyoming

House Seats: (All 435 seats representing all 50 States are up for re-election in 2014) Find out who voted YES yesterday and VOTE them out of office!

Be positive, get involved, stay focused, make a difference!

POST your efforts and achievements here. Let's all come together as we did for Ron Paul and make this happen!

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I find it almost impossible to have a conversation with you.

I just don't know how to respond to:

"The folks who are not in the GOP ,make a bog deal about the rule change"

Do you really thing that is the case? It is laughable. If I wasn't debating in another thread I value more I might actually take the time to dig up volumes of threads from people participating in the GOP bitching about the rule changes or the antics of the house speaker on the floor at Tampa reading the teleprompter. I am pretty sure only those participating in the GOP were at Tampa to get the video of the teleprompter.

I also find your general sentiment laughable because since 2007 so many people have been banned from a couple Ron Paul themed web sites because their outspoken apolitical leanings somehow detract from the campaign.

"KNOW, we didn't have enough delegates"

That is also laughable because I am almost tempted to dig up volumes of threads talking about how the delegate strategy was actually going to win.

The GOP insiders in the Ron Paul revolution have completely had their way. If someone brought up campaign staffing controversy it was bad for the campaign. Truthers were bad for the campaign. Long haired hippie pot smokers who don't dress well were bad for the campaign. Criticizing Rand is bad ... it just goes on and on.

They have not only had their way with some people being banned but by the type of stories that make front pages. Hell the philosophy subforum over at RonPaulForums.com was buried out of public view until recently. Daily Paul has something similar.

Let's be clear ... the apolitical or voluntarist wing of the Ron Paul revolution is not driving the GOP participation bus. The GOP wing of the Ron Paul revolution wants to only focus on the boring crap of working within the GOP and some folks are smart enough to add 1+1 and aren't going to waste their time fooling with the GOP if the numbers aren't there.

I sure as heck do not need to sit around a table with old fogies wearing "USS CV-NUKEM" baseball hats lecturing me on how we need to bomb Iran or fence off brown people who are only seeking a better life from crossing some imaginary line to do some job no American wants to do because United States citizens are worried a few brown people might get some socialist benefits because so called illegal aliens are free riders who don't pay property taxes where they rent, fuel taxes on the gas they buy, sales taxes, etc.

Anyway this back and forth we are having doesn't really fit the context of this thread and I am not not really all that motivated about the GOP topic in general to continue. Feel free to post the final word in response.

Yeah, I really think that is the case

CA Fall GOP convention, we had a debate on the floor about rule change, which becomes a parlimentarian game that take up so much time, the issue is moved to the next convention. Is it BS? Yeah. What can we do about it? Get back to work on our other issues because there are so many changes, that are huge from my perspective, such as Preibus having CA Chair Buelte hire a director, and nothing was said at the convention.. but they did celebrate climbing half a million out of debt and flush with 2 more million, claiming Andy Vidak's campaign and contributors who shall not be named.. and who was named, the SUID union! Whole new GOP to me, tons of rule changes beyond rules committee.

I don't own any websites and I'm not a mod, so I can't relate to what it must be like to ban people.

Delegate stratigy dependend on the state. Here in CA, Ron Paul's campaign picked the delegates (on committee the delegates of the GOP nominee has the trip paid for, supposedly). Romney won, so I didn't go to Tampa.

As to your list of who was "bad" for the campaign.. we all have our roles.. I think of the experience as an education.. for all the years I had been politically active, I had no idea there were central committee that were vetting issues and canidates.. to the GOP, Ron Paul 07 gave them a free ride, and since they are not looking for a free ride, Ron Paul got put out.. they spend huge money on these events and we did it without them, aqnd them without us.. and that didn't work too well for either of us.

I have tried several times to sign up to Ron Paul Forums and it would never let me.. Daily Paul has all kinds of neat little places and things to ponder.

The way I see it, as a committee member I need to give my local GOP and those interested something to want to participate in.. apolitical will wave what signs they want when they want.. I don't care.. and I guess that's my point.. all that sign waving isn't going to change one committee person's mind, but if it feels good waving signs, by all means, wave that sign.

That's quite an imagination about what sitting on a committee is.. my committee is tea party and Liberty centered and we're re-organizing to prepare for the elections in 2014.. for the most part, it's funny what folks say.. today is was references to UN Agenda 21.

It was not the money bomb that chased the former committee members off the committee.. it was the Ron Paul Republicans who kept showing up to meetings.. we are changing the GOP.. the moneybomb was a MSM event that did not have a big impact on the GOP.

OK, ..I don't agree, but I do understand what you're saying.

But the question still begs;WHY are you here on this board then?

www.SpiderWebbs.com (Take Your Bookmarks Wherever You Go!)

Many times I have repeated

four known ways to effect political change:

1. Kill the majority.
2. Geographically organize a majority.
3. Breed a majority.
4. Convince a majority.

I don't think #4 can happen without #2 (look at any geo-political map of the globe and tell me what you see) but if the strategy is #4 I have often mentioned anyone who is successful has some basic common traits such as defining measurable goals.

For instance if the goal is to take over the GOP where is a map broken down by precinct for any given state with the numbers. Do you know how many people in your precinct are needed to obtain a majority? How many people have you converted? What activities are you doing to convert? What results have been measured to determine which activities are more probable to convert than others? Etc.

We all have our purpose and I am just here on a grand journey of life involving the conversion of a little energy to mass in order to gain a capacity I can take with me while I learn something about myself I otherwise could not have learned.

Make sure it's true before you keep repeating it

You say to "look at any geo-political map of the world and tell me what you see". Well, I run a political mapping business and make political maps from the sub-precinct level up to the Congressional District level for a living, so I can "tell you what I see".

"Geographically organizing a majority" is not really necessary because not everyone is, or can be, registered to vote. A majority of voters is not necessary, either, because not every voter votes in every election, so you have to look at which voters tend to vote in the non-presidential elections (like 2014 is).

I for one, am hard at work, volunteering more hours than I get paid for, to "geographically organize" what's necessary to win. I sure hope that you are, too.

You don't need a majority of likely voters, either, to win Congress. Even if the goal is to elect 218 Representatives to the House (which is not necessary; see next paragraph), you only need a plurality of votes (often, but not always a majority) in 218 of the 435 races. Just look at last year's House elections -- Republican members held the House majority with a 17 seat margin although they did NOT win the total popular vote if you add all House race totals nationwide.

Just using this budget/debt increase "deal" as an example, a combination of 8 new Senators (5-6 taking over current Democrat seats & 2-3 taking GOP ones) is all that was needed to change the vote outcome, if they were Senators caucusing with the Republicans, because that would change the majority leader and control a majority of the Republican caucus. It will come up again, so it matters after 2014 elections.

If the Senate majority depended on a group of liberty Senators to get anything done, do you think that they would be able to negotiate something better than that? If they knew that they had the numbers to pass it, the Senate might be able to pass the House budget that the current majority of the House (230 out of 435) voted for on Sept. 20th, the one without Obamacare funding.

Some Senators just caved on the "raw deal" debt increase because they knew that it would pass and they didn't want to be depicted as "causing a default" if they voted no. With a majority, they could have passed the other things that the House passed. Many of the GOP Senators are unprincipled, for sure, but since we don't have a chance to beat most of them in the next election, why not put their spinelessness to good use.

It may also be possible that just a "liberty majority" of Republican Representatives (at least 110, which is a majority of 218) could control what gets passed in the House. Liberal Democrats were able to control their caucus in previous Congresses, and pass all kinds of monstrous things that some in their caucus (blue dogs) didn't necessarily like.

Also, your list of people (Hebrews, Christians, "Negroes", Atheists, etc.) compares apples to oranges because those specific groups didn't have a vote in the system of that time (i.e. Colonists cited "no taxation without representation" & African-Americans didn't have voting rights pre-15th Amendment). In fact, every one of those injustices was corrected WITHOUT the named group gaining a majority of the vote.

A majority isn't necessary for change either way.

What is the cost per vote

to get someone elected? Time is money.

"Also, your list of people ... compares apples to oranges because those specific groups didn't have a vote in the system of that time ... "

Come now, what is the measurable difference between not having a vote and rules being changed to exclude a voting block?

Forgive me for writing too

Forgive me for writing too much, but I was trying to drive home the point that a majority is not necessary. Perhaps just the last part would have sufficed:

"Every one of those injustices was corrected WITHOUT the named group gaining a majority of the vote. A majority isn't necessary for change either way."

About the "cost per vote" question, you're getting off the topic that you started with your post: that a majority is necessary but impossible because of voting laws (and rule manipulation).

Have you figured the "cost per vote" and determined it to be impossible to achieve because of that? Talk to Ron Paul, Justin Amash, Thomas Massie, etc about whether the "cost per vote" was prohibitively expensive to get elected.

Voting manipulation is worth considering as an impediment to change through the ballot box, but it didn't stop change through the ballot box for African-Americans, atheists and others that you mention.

After the last CA GOP convention

I am positive the tea party and Liberty candidates will do well in these elections as long as grassroots continues to support them, despite the establishment GOP.

See my post on this thread

See my post on this thread above.

There is at least one good House election with a liberty-oriented candidate in California. District 36, narrowly won by a Democrat last year in the Palm Springs area of inland Southern California. Brian Nestande has filed and is fundraising.

I'll be honest with you, he isn't a perfect 100 on the Ron Paul scale, but worth looking at since he is currently in the State Assembly, so he has a voting record that can be checked against his campaign statements, which are pretty dang good. www.briannestande.com

There are also a few other "tossup" or "leaning" House seats in California that could be won, especially with the "jungle primary" and "top 2 runoff" election system in your state. Districts 7, 26 & 52 are among those seats and all of the incumbents voted YES on the budget/debt increase deal.

Also, there is a pretty good candidate for Governor, State Assemblyman Tim Donnelly. Again, not perfect, but he would make a much better Governor than you've had in a generation.

Do a little homework on the net to gather info on where the district is in the state. It isn't tough to find out things if you just spend a little time getting useful, real information.

Thanks, I agree!

Which Senate and House incumbents in your area need to be thrown out! Who is running that we need to support?

www.SpiderWebbs.com (Take Your Bookmarks Wherever You Go!)

One can only be positive if

One can only be positive if one is able to ignore Washington completely.

My best advice so far? Work less and pay less taxes. The more you attempt to get ahead in a pseudo-Communistic system, the more you are punished. Let the looters turn on each other. They will eventually as their endless pillaging takes its toll.

OK, ..then WHY are you wasting your time on this board?

OK, ..then WHY would you waste your time on this board?

www.SpiderWebbs.com (Take Your Bookmarks Wherever You Go!)

I don't call this work. Do

I don't call this work. Do you?

Paulite_2012 didn't say that

Paulite_2012 didn't say that posting on here was doing "work", only that you were wasting time. You put words in their mouth in order to make a meaningless reply, you're really clever but not wise.

Let's see. What can we find positive about the sinking titanic.

You apparently don't understand. The hole is in the side of the ship and their is NOTHING to stop it now.

Our only hope is to throw the GD Democrats out of the life boats and take them for ourselves. But good luck with that.

Seeing that we are sinking I figured I could fashion my own life boat from pieces of the ship. That may work but I still fear that the Democrats will run over my makeshift dingy with their boats just because they can't stand anyone fending for themselves.

Agreed... this is a time for optimism

From what I am reading about Obamacare, this program is going to drive more and more people over the edge of "safety and normalcy" into the realm of cynicism of government and refusal to participate. People who have never had a rebellious thought in their lives are going to be pushed over the breaking point.

It is the PEOPLE - EN MASSE that must refuse to comply in all areas of the tyranny that is called the government. From what I am reading about the ramifications of Obamacare on the "little people" I think you will have more and more people refusing coverage. THEN, when the fine is taken out of their tax refund, or charged to their tax bill, I think you will have more and more people just dropping out of that system as well. They won't announce it..... they won't hold signs about it.... they will just STOP COMPLYING.

THAT is when progress can be made.

It is GREAT to try to elect "freedom" candidates, but until the MASSES are refusing to comply in sufficient numbers, those candidates cannot get far.

Thomas Jefferson: “Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that His justice cannot sleep forever."

Viva La Revolucion!

I agree, but we must try, that is what Ron Paul taught us to do

Which Senate and House incumbents in your area need to be thrown out! Who is running that we need to support?

www.SpiderWebbs.com (Take Your Bookmarks Wherever You Go!)

I heard on my local radio

I heard on my local radio program (which has a typically very liberal audience) a listener call-in segment where people were weighing in on how they'll be affected by ObamaCare. The callers were largely quite critical and the men, especially, were saying they were going to give up their own coverage so they could afford to keep coverage for their wives and kids. Just shocking stuff. Families will be decimated by this destructive tax on people least able to afford it...the disappearing middle-class.

I hate to be a bit negative

I hate to be a bit negative about TN but I attempted to challenge the computerized voting (with no paper trail) in a W. TN district in the 2008 primaries and got the third degree. I worry that our votes here no longer count. Hoping more people speak up way before the elections because the same thing happens everytime. "I'm sorry. We didn't know you had a concern about the voting process here. It's simply too late to change things now." Elections end. People forget. Cycle starts all over again.

Agreed , but lets continue Ron Paul's fight for change!

Which Senate and House incumbents in your area need to be thrown out! Who is running that we need to support?

www.SpiderWebbs.com (Take Your Bookmarks Wherever You Go!)

You are a realist

Which makes you correct.

The best question!