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Refuting the argument that Islam promotes aggression against Non-Muslims

Edit: I changed the title because apparently it made it sound like I believe Islam is violent, which is the exact opposite of what I was trying to say. I'm refuting the link which says that. I already did it on twitter and I think I did it in an argument with The Granger already. I'm not trying to promote Islam but rather dispel the myths that it is violent. I believe that almost all religions promote peace, harmony, and tolerance with others and that it is important to learn from the values of each faith. Michael did say to bring ones interests here and here is mine.

Hey everyone, I feel like I needed to make this based on some of the comments I've seen from Rand Paul's speech. (BTW, I'm with Rand now on what he said in his speech, based on what I've read) But I just wanted to refute the common assertions that the Quran or Islam in general is violent by explaining the verses. Here goes nothing at explaining the many violent passages in the Quran. If you downvote this, please explain why for me though. This link is where I get the violent verse contention from, and I'll proceed with refuting the contentions about the hadith in a separate post. http://t.co/RP0Q3WrtFw

Conveniently, the website ignores verse 2:190 and uses ellipses when discussing verses 2:191-193. Why? See for yourself: http://quran.com/2/188-194 The author claims the historical context does not justify the verses as meant in self-defense, claiming that Muslims lived under a tolerant, friendly government in Mecca under the Quraysh. Oddly enough, the man seems to leave out the fact that the Quraysh banned anyone from trading with the Muslims, openly tortured many Muslims such as Abu Bakr as-Siddiq and Bilal ibn Rabah al Hilashi, and that tow years before the flight to Medina, 100 other Muslims left to Abyssinia while the Prophet stayed. After the Prophet's uncle, a polytheist like the Quraysh, died, the Quraysh was free to attack the remaining Muslims, as he was the leader of the tribe, and to attack tribes like that would cause strife and warfare. But now, Muhammad was the only one left and many members of different tribes had joined the Muslims, nullifying that traditional agreement. So as a result, the Muslims had to flee with nothing but the clothes on their backs to Medina, while their property was stolen and sold to the Byzantines and Persians. Once this was found out by the Muslims, they raided the caravans and got back their property, angering the leader of the Quraysh, Abu Sufyan, and starting the Battle of Badr, which was open war, and that's what these verses refer to.

For verse 2:244, see the famous Tafsir ibn Kathir, a classical 14th century commentary on each Quranic verse:



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It was the atheists

Commies that murdered 10s of millions of their own citizens. For the record Hitler and Napoleon were both occultist. They may have used religion to manipulate their people but neither was a disciple of Christ.

Communist govt have set a whole new standard in murder during peace time ....

peAce

Liberty = Responsibility

SteveMT's picture

".govt have set a whole new standard in murder during peace time

What you said describes us as well if not more than the communists. We have set a whole new standard in murder during peace time in this current era. All the "wars" we have had since WWII have been and continue to be undeclared wars. We technically remain in a state of peace despite all of the undeclared wars ongoing. Peace time = undeclared wars. We have killed millions also and continue to do so. We are a Christian nation.

I agree that we have murdered more in undeclared wars

than we dare even admit. But are we a 'Christian nation?' When a crowd in South Carolina will boo a particular Presidential candidate (Ron Paul) for citing The Golden Rule and saying it should apply to foreign policy, I'd say, "No Way, we are by no means except nominally (in name only) a Christian nation". Jesus said that those who call Him Lord and do not obey aren't known by Him as followers, and will not be seen as followers in the end.

http://www.downsizedcfoundation.org/blog/would-jesus-have-bo...

"Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern." ~~C.S. Lewis
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

fair enough but the point I

fair enough but the point I meant to make is with the Atheists it was murder of there own people. Not people of another state or nation. They murdered their own and did not even pretend that it was in the name of war.

peAce

Liberty = Responsibility

SteveMT's picture

Point made, but we 'drone our own' for national security.

We murder our own citizens without a trial or charges. We don't pretend that it is in the name of war or even peace, just national security and potential threats as in thought-crime or pre-crime.

Understand your point, but we have become just as bad as any other example that you want to put forward. Are we doing anything good in this world anymore?

No we are not doing anything good in the world

because we are a communist - atheist society - if you think it is bad now just wait, this is just the beginning.

Not disputing that our undeclared wars are flat out war crimes. Your right. I am not trying to lesson any of your good points.

MAO's china killed 70 million of its own people.
Stalin killed 20 million Ukrainian, part of their current anti Russo feelings on display today.

This is just getting started the left loves murder. Especially who they term the inferior, feeble minded, and bad gene pool peoples.

peAce

Liberty = Responsibility

It seems to me

that it is similar to the teachings in the Old Testement where at a
certain point in time and circumstance this was directed for a retaliation. I haven't read the Quran, so I have no idea what context this was directed, but it seems similar to 'an eye for an eye'. The biggest dilemma with the Muslim populace is the majority is uneducated and can't read or write. So, when you have those who teach the meanings of the Quran to use it for an agenda or if they can read the script, but don't really understand what it means, this is where the major problems occur. If you recall in the '08 GOP debates, Dr Paul state the empirical fact, that the CIA created Madrassa's in Afghanistan to teach the uneducated using text like this to radicalize the Muslims against the Soviets. This was fact was also backed up by Hillary in Congressional hearing and in an interview on Greta Van Sustran's show.

Their are many people who take even the New Testament and teach people verses out of context to make them radical to for certain agendas. This is seen by many in the evangelical church's, that teach dispensationalism (Christian Zionism)using the apostate Scofield Reference Bible, that blaphemes Christ's teachings. Many of the top evangelical Zionists have called for nuclear inilation of Iran, because 'they claim' Iran wants to destroy Israel. This is completely against the teachings of Christ, as Christ teaches destructive force can only be used if harm is in direct threat of you or your family, and after all peaceful means have been exhausted.
Did the Iraqi's or Afghan's do us any harm? No, but we have killed millions of them for the ambitions and greed of the Zionists and the Corporatists.

FAct of the matter is

The quran does not need no other book or hadith to explain it or its verses.

Meditate during the night, except rarely. Half of it, or a little less. Or a little more. And arrange (Ratil) the Quran in its arrangement (Tarteel).” (73:2-4)

The Qur'an and the rules of engagement relating to war/fighting.

"You may fight in the cause of GOD those who fight you, but do not aggress. GOD does not love the aggressors. (2:190)

"They question you with regard to warfare in the sacred month. Say: Warfare therein is a great (transgression), but to turn (men) from the way of GOD, and to disbelieve in Him and in the Inviolable Place of Worship, and to expel His people thence, is a greater with GOD; for persecution is worse than killing. And they will not cease from fighting against you till they have made you renegades from your religion, if they can. And he who becomes renegade and dies in his disbelief: such are they whose works have fallen both in the world and the Hereafter. Such are rightful owners of the Fire: they will abide therein." (2:217)

"And kill them where you find them, and evict them whence they evicted you. Oppression is worse than murder. Do not fight them at the Sacred Mosque, unless they fight you therein. If they fight you, you may kill them. This is the just retribution for those who disbelieve. (2:191)

"...As for those who believe, but do not emigrate with you, you do not owe them any support, until they do emigrate. However, if they seek your help, as brethren in faith, you shall help them, except against people with whom you have signed a peace treaty. GOD is Seer of everything you do. (8:72)

"And why should you not fight in the cause of God and the weak and oppressed among men, women, and children who say, "Our Lord rescue us from this town whose people are oppressors. And give us from You, a protector. And give us from You, a helper" (4:75).

"...if you are attacked, then you shall attack by the same equivalence. And reverence GOD and know that GOD is with the righteous" (2:194)

"And if you punish, you shall inflict an equivalent punishment. But if you resort to patience (instead of revenge), it would be better for the patient ones. (16:26)
[2:256] There shall be no compulsion in religion: the right way is now distinct from the wrong way. Anyone who denounces the devil and believes in GOD has grasped the strongest bond; one that never breaks. GOD is Hearer, Omniscient.

From the above verses we can gather that fighting is only prescribed against those who attack(self-defense), also the above verses state that the only punishment one can return against an aggressor is an equal punishment, though the Quran does declare that it would be better to resort to patience, rather than, an eye for an eye, even though you have a right to it.

Moreover, the Qur'an explicitly declares that there be NO COMPULSION in RELIGION.

the quran's rules of engagement :

1.Self-defense

2Coming to the defense of an oppressed people

3. Punishment equal to the punishment caused you or you can restrain the punishment which is better for you.

Now understanding this context you can go through the "half verses/verses" taken out of context and understand that the fighting prescribed in those verses directly relates to self-defense, be it from ongoing defensive wars, broken treaties, etc

This is to be continued over time

.

I am a proud libertarian Muslim.

Here are some awesome Islamic Libertarian links:

http://minaret.org

http://muslims4liberty.com

AND TO GET OFF THE NEOCON DRIVEL ABOUT MUSLIMS: http://loonwatch.com

I have had many muslim friends in my life

which I always loved because I am a Christian, and that's kinda the biggest feud in history overcome by friendship.

However, I was made aware by my Muslim friends, of how Muslims see others, as what they called "coffers". They do NOT have to respect them, they can steal, rape, murder them it doesn't matter because they are not Muslim. Anything goes for non-believers. There is no penalty for such actions, even in the afterlife.

I have not read this myself, I have very little knowledge of the Muslim faith, if someone could clarify this for me, that would be great. I am not saying this to bash them, but this was the understanding I was given.

I do not hate any Muslim, and I'm not calling out all Muslims. I would love even my enemies, for they are God's children as I am.

Assalamu Alaikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh

The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule. This information is incorrect. Jihad is a war based on religion, but it is ONLY in defense. You are only allowed to attack when you are under attack, you never ever start a war with nonbelievers. In fact, one of the most important things in Islam is dawah! Dawah is teaching others (nonbelievers) about Islam and its beliefs. We are never to stone or kill, steal, or rape nonbelievers, we are to help them to the best of our ability.

The Qur'an never says to steal, rape, or murder anybody who is innocent and according to the Qur'an following a different religion is in NO WAY a crime. The Qur'an says if you kill an innocent person, it would be like you have killed all of humanity and if you save one person, it will be like you have saved all of the human kind. any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve....Thats what Qur'an says about non Muslims. Surat Al-Baqarah [2:62]

As-salamu alaykum

His name is Edward Snowden

What is Capitalism?
http://youtu.be/yNF09pUPypw

Walaykum Assalam Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu!

That was beautiful indeed! It summarized what I wanted to comprehensively state over the course of many pages in just a single paragraph. I'm glad to see there are at least three Muslims here!

I am a proud libertarian Muslim.

Here are some awesome Islamic Libertarian links:

http://minaret.org

http://muslims4liberty.com

AND TO GET OFF THE NEOCON DRIVEL ABOUT MUSLIMS: http://loonwatch.com

Beautifully stated

beautiful.

This was my very first post at the DP

Same-thing! almost exact! it was taken down in about an hour I think. lol

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

Times

They are a-changin'

Come gather 'round people
Wherever you roam
And admit that the waters
Around you have grown
And accept it that soon
You'll be drenched to the bone
If your time to you
Is worth savin'
Then you better start swimmin'
Or you'll sink like a stone
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come writers and critics
Who prophesize with your pen
And keep your eyes wide
The chance won't come again
And don't speak too soon
For the wheel's still in spin
And there's no tellin' who
That it's namin'
For the loser now
Will be later to win
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come senators, congressmen
Please heed the call
Don't stand in the doorway
Don't block up the hall
For he that gets hurt
Will be he who has stalled
There's a battle outside
And it is ragin'
It'll soon shake your windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come mothers and fathers
Throughout the land
And don't criticize
What you can't understand
Your sons and your daughters
Are beyond your command
Your old road is
Rapidly agin'
Please get out of the new one
If you can't lend your hand
For the times they are a-changin'.

The line it is drawn
The curse it is cast
The slow one now
Will later be fast
As the present now
Will later be past
The order is
Rapidly fadin'
And the first one now
Will later be last
For the times they are a-changin'.

- Bob Dylan 1963