-41 votes

Are Ron Paul, Rand Paul, Tom Woods, Barry Goldwater, and Justin Amash all duping you?

EDIT AND DISCLAIMER: The title of this thread is a rhetorical question. It is designed to stimulate discussion. I am a big fan of each of the persons mentioned and am in no way implying they've 'duped' anyone. I thought that would be obvious from this post.

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That would seem like quite a stretch. This post is aimed at those who believe in "secret legal system" type theories, such as the whole sovereign citizen mythology, strawman stuff, redemption/ UCC protocols, etc.

All of these ethical, brilliant men, who are or were the leaders of the libertarian movement, have one thing in common: they never say anything about this stuff. Ever. None has ever said there is a straw man. None has ever said there is an secret legal system, or that we operate under "admiralty law" (rofl) or that one can file a UCC-1 and somehow take a security interest in one's self, magic word defenses, or any of the other (frankly) gibberish that get floated around this site regularly by a few posters.

Why is that? I'd like to know the explanation for this, from those few. Do you believe they are "in on it?" Are they "secret double agents" or is there some other supernatural explanation you have? If so, please do tell! I'm trying to understand your participation in a movement that doesn't really have anything to do with your ideas. Respond, and flame, away.

The poultry abides.

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I like turtles

.

"We are not human beings having a spiritual experience; we are spiritual beings having a human experience"—Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

about turtles

turtles piss me off.

Sea turtles are governed by admiralty jurisdiction, however.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

You need help

Mental Help

turtle therapy?

perhaps?

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

Turtles.

Usually determined, more times than not slow.

Which brings to mind: With all of your energy consumed by your senseless thread, why not divert some of it to engage in activism?

The few that are in this movement have made some strides, but to yield greater success requires much larger numbers.

Are you in, or out?

"What if the American people learn the truth" - Ron Paul

Yes!

as long as I don't have to like turtles!

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

Seems

like you are trying to dupe us

Too late

it seems you've already been duped! And not by any of the names in the original post either.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

lol

ok buddy. I know Ron and Rand personally... nice try though... troll

ok, well tell us then!

Does Ron Paul believe we are under admiralty jurisdiction? That one can file a UCC_1 on himself and magically avoid responsibilities? That there is a strawman that you can redeem by misapplying various sections of the uniform commercial code? That by writing accepted for value on your phone bill, you can access your secret govt account and pay your bill?

Please do tell! And point us to your source of that knowledge - surely he's written it down if he thinks any of those things. I'm dying for you to show us! Same with Rand.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

Define the word "Law"

and don't forget the connotative and denotative aspects.

we have them in my business. and yes! they have to be based on something!

all you have done is jack me off and talk smack.

no

all I have done is refute your ill informed contrafactual nonsense.

The fact that there are laws in your business doesn't mean you know the law, either in general or in any other sense, now does it?

The fact that there are HVAC ducts in my building doesn't make me an "hvac tech" either. but the difference is, you don't see me preaching to you about being an hvac tech. In other words, you don't know what you're talking about. I can't say it nicer than that.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

About the meaning of the word "Law"?

what does sheetmetal have to do with HVAC? that is an alltogether different trade.
all that has to do with is air distribution.

according to you, there is no basis for our Law.

bliabberr

nothing.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

We ARE Governed by Admiralty and Common law.

are you suggesting that this is untrue?

Yes that is untrue

and anyone who practices law will tell you that.

If you are in an admiralty court, practicing admiralty law, then admiralty jurisdiction applies.

Admiralty jurisdiction does not apply to ordinary criminal and civil cases.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

that sidesteps the question.

.

the question is what then?

You asked if I was saying it was untrue. I responded, yes, I am saying your claim is untrue. How am I sidestepping?

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

What does it mean to say...

...that we're governed by admiralty and common law?

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

That is what I was told by 2 different lawyers.

when I asked them what our law was based on.
that is all that I really know and is exactly how far I went down that rabbithole.

I still know them, but I did not ask them to, nor did I feel the need for them to elaborate.

Admiralty law is the law of the sea. this has supplanted vattels law of nations. they did both say English common law....if that helps.....

The freemen are always claiming that we're under admirality law

What I'm asking is: so what? What does it mean to be under admiralty law? What are the implications of that? What is this body of admiralty law and how does it differ from the law that we know? Or are the freemen merely redefining the law we know as admiralty law, so that this entire issue is a matter of semantics? Basically, what the hell are we even talking about? LOL.

I always have to dismiss out of hand the arguments made by the freemen precisely because it's unclear what it is they're even claiming, let alone whether it's true.

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

"law" has to have a basis.

if it does not have a basis, then you can just pull it out of your arse.

read a synopsis of Frédéric Bastiats "The Law" for a better understanding.

peace.

thus pontificates the HVACTech, silence from The chickenator.

or do I hear crickets chirping?

Okay....

Once again, I am simply asking you to explain what you mean by admiralty law. If we don't know what admiralty law is, then the claim that we're under admiralty law is entirely meaningless, right?

And I've read Bastiat; it certainly has nothing to do with what the freemen are talking about.

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

I only support Liberty and Natural law.

I have zero interest in Admiralty or Maritime Law.

I do not and did not make the claim about what we are governed by, those were lawyers. ask them.

what I support is the original Law of Nations. (Vattel) not the Law of the sea. why do I need to know anything beyond that?

It's just gibberish

you can't cite to any credible source that says we are under admiralty law.

PM me the names of the attorneys who said that to you. I'll contact them to verify, or alternatively, report them to their state bars for incompetence, if they said that. But I'm confident that no one said that to you who has a law license, and it is just a ruse you use to try to build credibility.

You guys hate lawyers until you pull a secret unverifiable lawyer out of your hat to try to give your gibberish online credibility. I call b.s. jurisdiction.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

I did NOT say we are under Admiralty law.

what I said was that it is the basis. along with English common law.

did you NOT understand what I wrote?

Yes you DID

in this very post:

http://www.dailypaul.com/comment/3238165

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

still wrong

but an interesting twist on the gibberish theory at issue.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

then I will ask you. what is our law based on?

.

go to fricking law school

is the quick answer.

The various areas of law developed separately. There is something called admiralty law, and no it doesn't govern every case, and no the mere presence of a certain kind of flag doesn't make a court an admiralty court or any other childish nonsense you've heard. Admiralty law developed from admiralty law.

Tort law in the US developed from Tort law in England, where it is a relatively new creation.

Contract law developed over a longer period of time from contract law in England.

Criminal law developed from criminal law in England.

Why is this so hard to understand? I'm still not buying it that anyone said that to you.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein