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Article:Rand Paul proves his Ignorance; Says Liberals have no idea how Capitalism Works

The Forward Progressives website has this article. It hasn't received much response so far.

From the article: "Rand Paul’s “Ayn Rand” Libertarian tribal beliefs are an absolute failure in practice. ”Survival of the fittest” and “every man for himself” is not a feasible philosophy with which to build a successful nation. That’s why in all of human history we’ve never seen a successful society built on Libertarian principles, and the closest examples we have are nations like Somalia (small government, little or no taxes, no regulation) which are absolute disasters.

Liberals are also well aware of how it’s possible to produce cheap products. And yes, unfortunately it’s necessary to outsource some jobs to keep costs lower for American consumers and keep our economy going".


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First of all

Its always amazing to me how journalist and lawyers can dismiss a dr. when he talks about medical laws.

Second the article pretty much amounted to a sixth grader calling football bad because its an individual sport.

Personally as I understand it capitalism's one philosophy is to make more money, in any way possible. The problem comes when capitalist use government to get rid of competition, all of a sudden capitalist turn into communist, or someone fighting for feudalism.

That said as I understand it free market capitalism is drastically different than capitalism. The free market says that you make the best product for the best price in the most efficient manner. It demands innovation and since the government doesnt block the new guys with insane regulation it also allows innovation. Furthermore in a free market capitalism you will not have super rich cause as soon as you make it someone else is gonna try to out do your product or service, hence the reason why so many are against it. That said free markets are great for the consumer as their is always something new and improved.

Let me get

this straight.

"Every man for himself" is not a feasible philosophy with which to build a successful nation? What is then? When you are born into the world the universe doesn't naturally take care of you. So what's better?

A government that takes care of you with money it doesn't have? Or a government that takes care of you with money it has only because it stole it from productive people through convoluted taxes or craftily via inflation?

Neither of those seem a good way to build a successful nation either. Force isn't a better way to build a nation than freedom and voluntarism.


Somalia is actually an excellent example to showcase libertarian principles. Before you downvote me, please read ahead.

Here are the stats on Somalia before and after anarchy (1991)
Somalia: How Has Life Changed?
Index 1991 2011 (or latest)
Life expectancy 46 years 50 years
Birth rate 46 44
Death rate 19 16
GDP per capita $210 $600
Infant mortality 116 deaths <1yr, per 1,000 births 109 deaths <1yr, per 1,000 births
Access to safe water 35% 29%
Adult literacy 24% 38%
And more information on Somalia's improvement in the last 2 decades at https://mises.org/daily/5418/Anarchy-in-Somalia

Surprisingly this story was covered by BBC, a mainstream media channel - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12278628 But ofcourse the article goes on to make wrong inferences about the condition in Somalia.

Also the absence of state doesn't mean the absence of law. Somalis follow a system of law based on traditions and customs most suited for their region and culture, called the Xeer - https://mises.org/daily/2701 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xeer

Much of the rest of the world still assumes that Somalia is in the same condition (brought about by tyrannic governments) as it was before their civil war and so their stupidity arises out of ignorance of the Somali facts.



Somalia is not libertarian and it is not a good example. I will agree that they aren't worse without a government.

Somalia may not represent the

Somalia may not represent the desired form of society that libertarianism espouses, but no-one can predict the path that a society takes to move towards that kind of liberty.

I gave these stats to emphasize the fact that a stateless society is relatively more libertarian than a society with democracy or whatever form of government.

Somalia was in the gutters and in just 2 decades have seen so much change. Remember that this change is in-spite of active CIA and UN backing of certain warlord and their clans in Somalia to usurp widespread power. Somalia also did a great experiment in competing currencies - but bad money drove good money out - https://mises.org/daily/6490/Competing-Currencies-in-Somalia

Somalia had a very different tribal culture to begin with and will implement libertarianism in its own style (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xeer#Rights_under_the_law - a different style of property rights enforcement). We shouldn't measure its current condition through the lens of American or Western culture.
Law and, consequently crime, are defined in terms of property rights. The law is compensatory rather than punitive. Because property rights requires compensation, rather than punishment, there is no imprisonment, and fines are rare. Such fines as might be imposed seldom exceed the amount of compensation and are not payable to any court or government, but directly to the victim. A fine might be in order when, for example, the killing of a camel was deliberate and premeditated, in which case the victim receives not one but two camels. Fines figure in another interesting way. It is expected that a prominent public figure such as a religious or political dignitary or a policeman or a judge should lead an exemplary life. If he violates the law, he pays double what would be required of an ordinary person. Also, since the law and crime are defined in terms of property rights, the Xeer is unequivocal in its opposition to any form of taxation.

The article is really too stupid to warrant a detailed response

When I'm at the zoo and a chimp throws feces in my direction, I don't try to sit down and reason with him to resolve our differences, I just laugh and walk away.

(No insult to chimps intended)

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."


Most self proclaimed conservatives don't know how capitalism works either. That's why the Repubs can't sell the American people on it, they don't have the right answers to the tough questions.

The average Republican voter...

...doesn't have any better grasp of economics than the average Democratic voter, but the former lacks the instinctual hatred of capitalism that animates the latter. They'll never sell the Republican base on openly anti-capitalist policies, but they can pretty easily trick them into supporting anti-capitalist policies under another name.

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

Bingo ...

... and that's why you don't see the GOP making any significant gains in the face of the monumental fiasco that is Odumbacare.

Somalia, that's the libertarian example????

A country divided into 3 tribal groups, with one controlling the military, another had had control of the government. Leaders of each tribe basically warlords over each tribe. I suppose that's another level or form of powerful, not small, government.

Look at that domain name ...

... "Forward Progressives." Forward was the name Barry used in re-election. It has a long history of being used by communists, including Karl Marx himself.

You can be sure the owner of that domain knows EXACTLY what that term means, so obviously he/she/it is pushing a communist agenda with a domain name like that.

As far as the article, it is always convenient to claim that Somalia is somehow libertarian and ignore that it was just a dictatorial government that failed and nothing replaced it. Plus, you've got the US government and other factions trying to get in there and take over, which is what all the violence is about: people who are trying to ESTABLISH a big government, and willing to kill in order to do it.

The rest just looks like they are providing yet more evidence that they really have no idea how capitalism works, as they attempt to prove that they do.

My Response in the Comments Section

One quick point. Obamacare is not a product, it's a law/policy. If Google did TV ads for their new privacy policy I'd question why they feel the need to sell us on it.

Perhaps Rand Paul is right about liberals not understanding how capitalism works.

You know the author is clueless

when he refers to Somalia as a "libertarian" country.

Simple Facts and Plain Arguments
A common sense take on politics and current events.


Good description of Collectivism

Do you know how it worked, that plan, and what it did to people? Try pouring water into a tank where there's a pipe at the bottom draining it out faster than you pour it, and each bucket you bring breaks that pipe an inch wider, and the harder you work the more is demanded of you, and you stand slinging buckets forty hours a week, then forty-eight, then fifty-six - for your neighbor's supper - for his wife's operation - for his child's measles - for his mother's wheel chair - for his uncle's shirt - for his nephew's schooling - for the baby next door - for the baby to be born - for anyone anywhere around you - it's theirs to receive, from diapers to dentures - and yours to work, from sunup to sundown, month after month, year after year, with nothing to show for it but your sweat, with nothing in sight for you but their pleasure, for the whole of your life, without rest, without hope, without end . From each according to his ability, to each according to his need .


”Pure” capitalism is every

”Pure” capitalism is every bit the failure as communism or socialism. Unchecked, and unregulated, capitalism will build a society (as we’ve seen since “Reaganomics” took the U.S. by storm in the 1980s) where a small percentage of the population has everything and the vast majority has next to nothing.

Funny, I never realized that we are living under "Pure" capitalism, you mean free markets with no govt intervention, competing money, no Fed, no IRS, I must be blind.

Another thing capitalism does well is feed greed. The more you give it, the more it wants. The richer you make the richest among us, the richer they’re going to want to be. Profits in the millions get replaced by profits in the tens of millions. Profits in the tens of millions get replaced by profits in the hundreds of millions. Profits in the hundreds of millions get replaced by profits in the billions.

Liberals hate the word "profit", to them it means theft. What they can't get through their heads is profit is the reason businesses exist at all. The reason people start a business is to gain a greater return on their capital investment than they could elsewhere. I remember when a savings account would have a 5 to 6% yield, (1960's), a business could have a yield of 10 to 15% so those willing to take a risk would start a business. Who cares if profits are in the billions as long as it's source is voluntary cooperation.
The more profits a company earns means they can hire more people and pay them more.

The funny part is he thinks

The funny part is he thinks Reaganomics is capitalism in action when this country abandoned pure capitalism all the way back in 1913.

Simple Facts and Plain Arguments
A common sense take on politics and current events.


Reminds me

At a dead show, in the parking lot/ aka shakedown street/ the zoo.. I had an epiphany.. I was standing where the way the buses/vans/trucks vendors, each with their elaborate hippy signs, "Phatty egg rolls", "Grilled Cheese $1 and a smile",tye dyes, jewlry, fresh squeezed orange juice, clothing repair, patchwork skirts/ quilts/ fresh eggs with chickens running around, babies wearing tye dye and the "street vendors, ice chests on dollies with cold beer, soda, home made beverages, treats, goo balls.. there were no rules, no regulations, no taxes, no licenses, no inspections.

Just as I formed this idea, "This is laisez faire capitalism", a couple of hippy girls were walking past and one was telling the other, "This is socialism", this is how we all take care of each other. You can get anything you want here, just look for it."

And I thought when I heard that.. "The librals don't understand capitalism".. they don't understand that every single one of these people vending is there to make money, at least enough to make it to the next show (shows were three days long) where you could vend again, and yes, everyone was kind, or kynd, afterall, dead was definately a tribe and we traded freely, in the name andr act of love and peace (though we've all seen deals go down, but also deals that were amazing.. $5 tour tee.. band tee was $25.00.. street tee $5, and sometime the street tee was cool.. one vendor I knew made about $3K a show vending $5 tees. Not bad when you are having fun.

Seems that's what is really outlawed.. having fun.

Anyways, yeah, Rand is right, liberals don't understand capitalism, they are hooked on Keynesianism.

I think Rand could have done a better job...

of preaching, instead of bashing, to the liberals. I think as soon as he began bashing just the liberals his argument fell on deaf ears when it could have been an opportunity to wake up a few sleeping/ignorant people. It's much more effective to attack ideas, rather than people.

If ignorance is bliss, Washington DC must be heaven.

We all fall into that trap at

We all fall into that trap at some point, but I agree. Bashing people just makes them defensive and makes them close themselves off from you.

Simple Facts and Plain Arguments
A common sense take on politics and current events.


Obviously not. I think Rand

Obviously not. I think Rand is quite correct with this statement. The debacle with Health care and I don't mean the incompetent programmers but the Health Care Act itself is full of anti people fines, exclusionary pay offs and burdensome regulations and needs to be squashed. The passing of authorizing Obama with higher debt is INSANE. Anybody who has any knowledge even layman's knowledge such as me, knows this is going into an abyss of financial chaos.

Any free area is immediatly infested with

Rothschild agents, the con men, the spys, the zionist, the bankers with counterfeit false debt loans of digitized money. So how could you hold up an example of Somolia and not mention that the influences of zio false debt slave mercinaries are constant perverting and corupting and destroying any type of freedom.


Oh that old 'successful

Oh that old 'successful libertarian state' joke.
It is an oxymoron. There are no true libertarian STATES because they don't declare war, fleece their constituents to build extravagant monuments to government, or demand strict economic rules.

They will never see one when it comes around because their definition of successful is based on state run schools, nationalized business and massive infrastructure projects of God knows what.

Southern Agrarian

What they did here was...

What they did here was paint Libertarian ideals as total Anarchy. Unfortunately there are some that do display this as an end goal.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

Total chaos is a fiction used to create fear and governments.

Total anarchy, means no earthly ruler.

But reality is a strict master. Even the wily coyote cannot escape gravity, momentum, inertia or blowback.

Free includes debt-free!

Bump for no earthly rulers

and a return to a reality based economy

"It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere".

It's hard not to be a menace to society when half the population is happy on their knees. - unknown

bigmikedude's picture


Man, democrats are their own worst enemies. Duh-ness has no limits.

"Liberals are also well aware of how it’s possible to produce cheap products"

"it’s necessary to outsource some jobs to keep costs lower"

...Sure it is, when many companies here in our country are forced to pay incredibly high democrat supported union wages to people who get to sit idly around on forklifts if there is nothing for their particular union job description to be doing at the moment, which is directly passed on to the consumer via product cost.

This might only be really funny to those that have delivered to automakers before, where you learn that nobody there dare do another's job. If there's nothing for them to do at their job, for fear of union and superior reprimand, they have to stand around, wait, (and get paid) until there is.

And then, when you believe in keynesian economics and printing money by the semi loads, and driving prices through the roof via inflation, while believing outsourcing is necessary to keep costs down, while expecting the high paid union people to have jobs...

Somalia is Libertarian?

For some reason I doubt it.lol.

I'd rather have a bottle in front o' me than a frontal lobotomy

tasmlab's picture


But the Randians are still debating the Rothbardians over there about the proper deployment of the courts.

Currently consuming: Morehouse's "Better off free", FDR; Wii U; NEP Football


So then that must mean the Keynesians are the ones sailing around on little boats and pillaging the shipping in that area, right?

Simple Facts and Plain Arguments
A common sense take on politics and current events.