63 votes

Nystrom said "...bring all your interests here." ~ OK. The Ultimate Liberty Community UPDATE: 3/20

UPDATE: 4/20/2014 I have begun looking for locations in New Hampshire.
Unfortunately my business keeps me nailed down until June. But I am working with a real estate agent. We are sifting through property listings. This is the new thread;
Any Free Staters Here Know 'About New Hampshire?
UPDATE: 3/20/2014
The River Stone property deal has fallen apart. In the course of doing the last round of investigation I became aware of an important change in regards to the local gas drilling activity.
When I originally looked at River Stone in 2010, all information indicated that River Stone was out of the way in terms of it's desirability for drilling. There were no collection pipelines for transmitting natural gas then. All indications including low ball lease offers to the seller and my own industry contacts proved that River Stone would be safe from the drilling boom.
That has changed. A few weeks ago I had a conversation with an investment firm's managing partner. He said they were investing almost a billion dollars in drilling infrastructure in that area. Almost simultaneously, the seller was approached with an offer to buy the mineral rights to the property. While I agreed to keep the details of the offer confidential, I can say that the offer was extremely generous compared to some of the highest offers I've heard about. These two pieces of information indicated a very big shift. In addition I became aware of an east west pipeline being promoted by the state of Ohio.
These developments made River Stone too risky to invest in.
So I withdrew from the negotiation process.

The Ultimate Liberty Community
River Stone Estate:
UPDATE 12/20
This guy nailed it.
Submitted by Barracuda_Trader on Fri, 12/20/2013 - 14:29.

UPDATE: NEW! My Liberty River Stone Photo Album - LOTS OF DETAIL
This is a completely self contained development that has 38 buildings, all restored to pristine condition. On 1200 fertile acres, with endless water resources.
I envision a community of Liberty minded people coming together to run and maintain this operation.
Any Takers?

A Special Event @ River Stone


Food production
Profitable farm
1200 acres of resources
Gas wells
Resort potential
River destination
Golf near-by
The Allegheny Grille
Black Forest Restaurant
Foxburg Pizza & Country Store
Foxburg Wine Cellars
Foxburg Inn
The Allegheny RiverStone Center for Performing Arts
Divani Chocolate Boutique
Prime Outlets Grove City
The Foxburg Country Club
Pine Grove Golf Course
Olde Stonewall
Biking and Hiking
Pennsylvania Great Outdoors
Segway of Western PA
Boating and Fishing
Moraine State Park
Riffle Runner Excursions
Canoing and Kayaking
Parker’s Landing Canoe Livery
Riverview Sportsman Canoe Livery
And if you like the concept please VOTE it UP!

Help Wanted:
Medical Worker
Experienced Livestock expert
Bee Keeper
IT Tech
Business Manager
Event Planner
Organic Chef
Experienced Organic farmer
Experienced with Aquaponics and Growing MicroGreens
Experienced with Pond Stocking and Fish Farming
Tallow Chandler(candle maker),
Biofuels pro
3D Printing Tech
Resource Media Specialist (Librarian)
Solar Energy Specialist


Love it
Submitted by Michael Nystrom on Thu, 10/24/2013

How would you decide who gets to come and stay?
BT: Initially I would build a team one-by-one. Then we'd decide as a team on future members.
I think the former Daily Paul 'all comers welcome' model wouldn't be the model. Prior to entry, people would have to demonstrate their worth to the community. It would be a little harder to ban someone from there, in the physical world, and I'm no one should be so naive to think that peace love and liberty would make things all work out.
BT: Right on all counts
A communist commune? That would be doomed to failure.
BT: Right
There is a model of a similar place in Kunstler's post-apocalyptic novel World Made By Hand. It was a productive place. It had flour! In a world where global payments and communications have broken down, that is no small feat. This place you're showing us also has that capability.
BT: I’d have to read the book. But I've also been talking to this seller for three years now.
But the devil is in the details. The farm in Kunstler's novel was basically run by one guy as I recall. The benign dictator/monarch model can work fine for a while. The Daily Paul is basically a dictatorship with a self appointed mayor.
BT: We have learned a great deal from being part of the Daily Paul. The kind of lessons that would help avoid many pitfalls in a community like River Stone.
That is fine for a while, but in the long term it is not stable (for a website, or for a community such as the one you describe). What kind of governance structure do you envision such a place having? It would be a huge operation to run, involving thousands of people.
I like the idea, very much. Like a real world Daily Paul. I'm not a medical worker, but I have some valuable knowledge on community management and relations. :)
- - -
I made it to Taiwan. The time difference is exactly 12 hours. It is 2:30 in the morning. Jet lag woke me up, so I thought I'd check in. I'll have more of an update later, after I've collected my thoughts. But I saw this thread and couldn't help but comment.
- - -
Thanks! Keep it going. BTW, when I ran into my old friend "the market socialist" (Ron Paul Class of 2007) at Whole Foods the other day we talked about the other members of our erstwhile group. One guy, also RP Class of 2007 he said is up in NH living on some kind of a 'liberty commune' (for lack of a better term).
I'll see if I can get in touch with him and see what's going on.
How about a whole network of 'liberty communes' across the country? They'd have to have better names, obviously. Government free zones? But they'd need governments of their own.
- - -
When it was clear that communism was a failure, the Chinese government began experimenting with regulation-free zones. I can see the same thing happening with this country down the line.
Good work BT. Always stay ahead of the pack!

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phreakng loon

aight i see how it's gonna be.

Be brave, be brave, the Myan pilot needs no aeroplane.

Sweet dreams are made of this

sad to see them fail, but one learns so much for having followed their dream.. billion bucks.. wow.. sounds as if that area is going to be developed soon.

On your top post, the drawing of libertyville.. was that an artist or a computer program.. did you make that?


sad to see them fail
In this case it's far from a failure. This is an evasive move to avoid a catastrophic loss. It's a good thing.
But it feels like I've had my heart slashed.
I just hope the owner, an incredible man, doesn't get hurt badly.

the drawing of libertyville.. was that an artist or a computer program.. did you make that?
That's a photograph of the property. Photo shopped to explaining each improvement on the property. http://www.riverstoneestate.com/
click on aerial views. Same photo by Dennis Keyes.

Bitter sweet kind of good

and good on you for taking the high road because it is a loss, at least I don't like seeing sweet dreams being evaded.. and I too hope well for all.

Thank you for the answer about the photoshop.. I need to get my plan drawn up.. nothing new, just arranging what works into a place that doesn't. :D

"I will go where you go, I will follow in your footsteps"

Servant of Ruth, where will you not go?

I told Cuda: if you do this I will dedicate all my remaining years and I will do this just to try and try again. I'm grateful for Cuda's vision and leadership on this one, just that the idea and the words were put into his heart, for this I am grateful and it shows me that we are a people and that large and small, we are His people and the sheep of His pastures.

I am grateful that we have all taltent and all skill in this movment, from great to small and I beleive in this vision, always have, in any form it takes:

ideally we are together.

I will. That is my commitment. If Cuda calls I will come with everything I have. And we shall see a people rise. I'm done with building communities. I'm more interested in building our tribe.

Be brave, be brave, the Myan pilot needs no aeroplane.


was not being facetious when I said "sweet dreams are made of this".

When I was a dead head, Joseph Campbell at one paont refered to us as a tribe. We had our own language, music, culture, beliefs, mores, folklores, art, clothing, food...

Forwhatever reason people were attracted, people came and stayed because there was something within them that told them, "I am home".

I now live in an area where there are many heads.. so I continue to have a strng since of tribe, however, it was not planned.. none of it.. I didn't plan to be a dead head. The dead were happening, the bus came by and I got on...


If you are a dead head you know what I'm talking about by the selection of the lyrics.. if you are not a dead head, the song makes no sense.

Well said, Smudge Pot.

God willing, I will meet you there.

“It is the food which you furnish to your mind that determines the whole character of your life.”
―Emmet Fox

Debbie's picture

Thank you for the update!

Thank you for the update!


Supply of Money?

Who can and who can't?

This may help:


Or not


I am diggin' THIS!

New Development of Principles


Pretty Please with Sugar on Top

If you have any questions concerning that information please, please, please, share your questions and answers.

Example question:

What system of trade will be used by the first groups of people to colonize another planet?

Example answer:

The highest quality system that consumes the least cost or an equitable system that avoids costs being falsely attributed to the victims who pay those costs enforced by the criminals who create those costly costs.

Is that a cost principle?

Good luck!


Tally-ho ?

Has there been any developments since you last reported on your liberty community project ?

Even a brief email on the progress of your Fox hunt would be encouraging sunshine to those all but virtually alienated from the blessings of liberty in community.



I posted the update above.
I will write more later about a change of course to New Hampshire.

Happy Trails

Oh well ... It´s your soaring vision that, ironically, is well grounded in that which is hallowed.

"Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail."

–Ralph Waldo Emerson

*I´d love to talk to you about your ideas. Feel free to message me or send me current contact info if you are willing. I share your aspirations and would love to share thoughts in light of developments.

So this place is near Cooks Forest?

I grew up just up the way in Erie. Had a camp down near Marrionville for a bit, most beautiful woods I ever walked in.

Hunted big time with my dad and grandpa; turkey, grouse, white tails, bunnys: down in the Allegheny Nat. Forest.

This looks and sounds like any exceptional idea, but there is much to ponder and solidify before committing to it.

In terms of Governance why not look towards a " biblical " model, not with a King . But with a series of " Judges " ? A high Judge who hears only the most serious disagreements and several steps of lower " Judges " who take care of the day to day and middling stuff?

Also as the community grows, and it will, the sheer numbers of people would necessarily dictate a method of governance that included all, equally. Again the " Biblical " model of leaders of 10,100, and 1000 seems efficient while also being attentive to the needs and voices of every member of the community?

BTW, don't know how I irritated most all here, but please at some point forgive me? Any perhaps some kind hearted soul might find it good to actually tell me what it was that I did to become so treated, that I might choose to mend my ways? For I have never, by intent nor motive sought to antagonize, vilify, or harm any member of this forum with word, action, or deed: and I am always quick to make peace amongst friends.

For in this community of the DP, and on a much greater scale this wonderful landing, the ability to communicate to those who have wronged you or that you have wronged MUST be a priority to ensure to common peace.

Might we therefore commence such work, well prior to this other, greater work of closest proximity ?

Gods blessings upon this endeavor, and may His Spirit guide the hearts of all who attend it, amend it, and defend it.


PS. both the Allegheny and the Clarion Rivers have a long history of getting BIG , i,e, flooding: how is this property prepared against such an event?

Drew, by the very grace of GOD through the blood of Christ Jesus.
"there shall come after us men whom shall garner great wealth using our system, and having done so shall seek to slam the door of prosperity behind them." George Washington


Property is surrounded by high cliffs.
But the town of Foxburg where the businesses are located is closer to river level.
And yet the hotel, restaurant are protected by a wall of about 15 feet.


Couldnt see that from the other pic,

Disregard previous insipid input.


Drew, by the very grace of GOD through the blood of Christ Jesus.
"there shall come after us men whom shall garner great wealth using our system, and having done so shall seek to slam the door of prosperity behind them." George Washington

"I Drink Rum!"

Fox was an independent thinker, far ahead of his time

If George Fox, founder of the Quaker religion, could look down on Riverstone estate created by his descendants, it would be interesting to hear his comments. Though born into a strict puritan British family, Fox was an independent thinker, far ahead of his time, who viewed life with considerably more common sense than his countrymen. For this, he was incarcerated many times both in England and America. Fox upset the Puritan apple cart by believing in equality between the sexes and that life should be based on simplicity with only two focal points: Love of God and kindness toward each other.

In 1796, George’s descendants Samuel Fox, his brother and two brothers-in-law purchased 6,600 acres of land where the Allegheny River and the Clarion River converged. Over the years the mansion was built and eventually a dairy farm was added. The land, and later the developed farm, stayed in the Fox family from 1796 until it was sold in 1964. The most recent owners purchased it in 1996 and went about a total reconstruction and historically correct restoration of all the original buildings. Today, there are 26 structures on the property.

In God We Still Trust

In God We Still Trust


Full Faith And Credit ...

... where credit is due.

Coin A Phrase


For if in careless summer days
In groves of Ashtaroth we whored,
Repentant now, when winds blow cold,
We kneel before our rightful lord;

The lord of all, the money-god,
Who rules us blood and hand and brain,
Who gives the roof that stops the wind,
And, giving, takes away again;

Who spies with jealous, watchful care,
Our thoughts, our dreams, our secret ways,
Who picks our words and cuts our clothes,
And maps the pattern of our days;

Who chills our anger, curbs our hope,
And buys our lives and pays with toys,
Who claims as tribute broken faith,
Accepted insults, muted joys;

Who binds with chains the poet’s wit,
The navvy’s strength, the soldier’s pride,
And lays the sleek, estranging shield
Between the lover and his bride.

-- George Orwell


Revolution V. Fiat: Turn Of Phrase


Ironically, Orwell may be telling us 'if there was hope, it must lie' [in truth] in language:


"If there was hope, it must lie in the proles, because only there, in those swarming disregarded masses, eighty-five percent of the population of Oceania, could the force to destroy the Party ever be generated. The Party could not be overthrown from within. Its enemies, if it had any enemies, had no way of coming together or even of identifying one another. Even if the legendary Brotherhood existed, as just possibly it might, it was inconceivable that its members could ever assemble in larger numbers than twos and threes. Rebellion meant a look in the eyes, an inflection of the voice; at the most, an occasional whispered word. But the proles, if only they could somehow become conscious of their own strength, would have no need to conspire. They need only to rise up and shake themselves like a horse shaking off flies. If they chose they could blow the Party to pieces tomorrow morning. Surely sooner or later it must occur to them to do it. And yet --!"

George Orwell - 1984 P. 60


And Crown Our Good With Brotherhood


Quakers: En-Lightened Legacy Of Liberty

"If thou wouldst rule well, thou must rule for God, and to do that, thou must be ruled by him....Those who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants."
–William Penn


This fascinating history and happy coincidence for Cuda's project prompted me to want to know more about the origins of these peaceful revolutionaries.

"That which the people called Quakers lay down as a main fundamental in religion is this— That God, through Christ, hath placed a principle in every man, to inform him of his duty, and to enable him to do it; and that those that live up to this principle are the people of God, and those that live in disobedience to it, are not God’s people, whatever name they may bear, or profession they may make of religion. This is their ancient, first, and standing testimony: with this they began, and this they bore, and do bear to the world."
~ William Penn, 1644-1718

More Interesting History:

In England:



And on this side of the pond, the events and personalities formative to such a liberty loving heritage:


[ As an aside, some may enjoy this view of what may be regarded as blogging during that day and age, which were revolutionary times, when the trolls of that era would quip with pamphlet titles like "Why My Adversary Is a Stinking Dirty Dung Beetle in the Service of Evil."

And here maybe some of you perhaps thought 'ranting' was a modern phenomenon which coincided with Al Gore's invention of the Internet. ;-) ]

"Be patterns, be examples in all countries, places, islands, nations, wherever you go, so that your carriage and life may preach among all sorts of people, and to them. Then you will come to walk cheerfully over the world, answering that of God in every one."
~ George Fox, 1624-1691

[ To my view, nothing could be more important than demystifying the grip and fervor of devotion to The State. On this score, I came away convinced the Quaker influence on this continent was an indispensable positive example. True Protestants Dissent From The Religion Of Statism :

http://www.dailypaul.com/293344/the-state-is-not-great-james... ]


River Stone, I believe, is hallowed ground. It's taken me a long time to see it. And in part, it's been the shared work of people like you who are also possessed of the Spirit, that has helped me to see what has been offered to us in this place.
Just an example; One of the risks of going forward with River Stone was the prospect that a natural gas pipeline could have gone through the property.
This past week the Supreme Court of Pennsylvania struck down portions of the law, Act 13, that was written by the Oil & Gas Lobby. It would have taken away ALL local control over the use of land and made gas drilling (specifically hydro-fracking)wall-to-wall in the Commonwealth.
Attorney's worked (pro bono) on behalf of local governments up against high powered law firms representing the corporations. The law had already been passed! But it wasn't enacted. They got an injunction to hold off the flood of permits. And finally, last Thursday December 19th, the court handed down it's decision. http://stateimpact.npr.org/pennsylvania/2013/12/19/state-sup...
This was such an evil piece of legislature that there was even a provision called the “doctor gag rule” of Act 13. Doctor's treating gas related sicknesses would face legal punishment if they 'talked'.

Peace! Independence! Truth!


What's hallowed ground? Has earth a clod
Its Maker meant not should be trod
By man, the image of his God,
Erect and free,
Unscourged by Superstition's rod
To bow the knee?

That's hallowed ground where, mourned and missed,
The lips repose our love has kissed;--
But where's their memory's mansion? Is't
Yon churchyard's bowers?
No! in ourselves their souls exist,
A part of ours.

A kiss can consecrate the ground
Where mated hearts are mutual bound:
The spot where love's first links were wound,
That ne'er are riven,
Is hallowed down to earth's profound,
And up to heaven!

For time makes all but true love old;
The burning thoughts that then were told
Run molten still in memory's mould;
And will not cool
Until the heart itself be cold
In Lethe's pool.

What hallows ground where heroes sleep?
'Tis not the sculptured piles you heap!
In dews that heavens far distant weep
Their turf may bloom;
Or Genii twine beneath the deep
Their coral tomb.

But strew his ashes to the wind
Whose sword or voice has served mankind,--
And is he dead, whose glorious mind
Lifts thine on high?--
To live in hearts we leave behind
Is not to die.

Is't death to fall for Freedom's right?
He's dead alone that lacks her light!
And murder sullies in heaven's sight
The sword he draws:--
What can alone ennoble fight?
A noble cause!

Give that,--and welcome War to brace
Her drums, and rend heaven's reeking space!
The colors planted face to face,
The charging cheer,
Though Death's pale horse lead on the chase,
Shall still be dear.

And place our trophies where men kneel
To Heaven!--but Heaven rebukes my zeal!
The cause of Truth and human weal,
O God above!
Transfer it from the sword's appeal
To Peace and Love.

Peace, Love! the cherubim, that join
Their spread wings o'er Devotion's shrine,
Prayers sound in vain, and temples shine,
Where they are not,--
The heart alone can make divine
Religion's spot.

To incantations dost thou trust,
And pompous rites in domes august?
See mouldering stones and metal's rust
Belie the vaunt,
That man can bless one pile of dust
With chime or chant.

The ticking wood-worm mocks thee, man!
Thy temples,--creeds themselves grow wan!
But there's a dome of nobler span,
A temple given
Thy faith, that bigots dare not ban,--
Its space is heaven!

Its roof, star-pictured Nature's ceiling,
Where, trancing the rapt spirit's feeling,
And God himself to man revealing,
The harmonious spheres
Make music, though unheard their pealing
By mortal ears.

Fair stars! are not your beings pure?
Can sin, can death, your worlds obscure?
Else why so swell the thoughts at your
Aspect above?
Ye must be heavens that make us sure
Of heavenly love!

And in your harmony sublime
I read the doom of distant time;
That man's regenerate soul from crime
Shall yet be drawn,
And reason on his mortal clime
Immortal dawn.

What's hallowed ground? 'Tis what gives birth
To sacred thoughts in souls of worth!--
Peace! Independence! Truth! go forth
Earth's compass round;
And your high-priesthood shall make earth
_All hallowed ground_.


* * * *

It sure seems providential that this beautiful clod of unviolated earth and heritage may be available to provide foundation and sustenance to a dream many of us here at DP share.

The victory described in the link you reference is emblematic of virtually all with which we have been engaged. What a graciously charmed hands on opportunity being revealed.

LibBerte, That was beautiful

River Stone's elaborate restoration by Dr. Steffee, makes no financial sense.
He has built a living monument for others to come and live and work.
He revived Foxburg and left a strong foundation to build on.

yes, truly beautiful

Both...the poem & River Stone.

I just saw this thread today. Wow, what a glorious place!

As you know my brother, with our Father all things are possible...there is still hope...and I join you in waiting for an expected end!

His peace & joy to you, BT! :)

Jesus is the saviour of the WHOLE WORLD, "As in Adam all die, so too in Christ ALL shall be made alive." (ICor.15:22) All means all. The pagan 'hell' of literal fire & eternal torment is a lie and is SPIRITUAL TERRORISM. http://www.hopebeyondhell.net

Thank you heart4wisdom

It has been difficult getting fired-up to change states.
It's as if I'm just going through the motions looking at New Hampshire properties.
But I am committed to the vision of this self-sustaining community.

New Hampshire offers so many things that I grew up with in New England. Ocean access, real good food, clean air and water and soil that's not contaminated from mining.

I will go forward and I know we will succeed.


Where did you guys build that tree-house Iron_Paul?

Just curious Iron_Paul, Is that where they teach the kids how to fly?

Like baby eaglets?