63 votes

Nystrom said "...bring all your interests here." ~ OK. The Ultimate Liberty Community UPDATE: 3/20

UPDATE: 4/20/2014 I have begun looking for locations in New Hampshire.
Unfortunately my business keeps me nailed down until June. But I am working with a real estate agent. We are sifting through property listings. This is the new thread;
Any Free Staters Here Know 'About New Hampshire?
UPDATE: 3/20/2014
The River Stone property deal has fallen apart. In the course of doing the last round of investigation I became aware of an important change in regards to the local gas drilling activity.
When I originally looked at River Stone in 2010, all information indicated that River Stone was out of the way in terms of it's desirability for drilling. There were no collection pipelines for transmitting natural gas then. All indications including low ball lease offers to the seller and my own industry contacts proved that River Stone would be safe from the drilling boom.
That has changed. A few weeks ago I had a conversation with an investment firm's managing partner. He said they were investing almost a billion dollars in drilling infrastructure in that area. Almost simultaneously, the seller was approached with an offer to buy the mineral rights to the property. While I agreed to keep the details of the offer confidential, I can say that the offer was extremely generous compared to some of the highest offers I've heard about. These two pieces of information indicated a very big shift. In addition I became aware of an east west pipeline being promoted by the state of Ohio.
These developments made River Stone too risky to invest in.
So I withdrew from the negotiation process.

The Ultimate Liberty Community
River Stone Estate:
UPDATE 12/20
This guy nailed it.
Submitted by Barracuda_Trader on Fri, 12/20/2013 - 14:29.

UPDATE: NEW! My Liberty River Stone Photo Album - LOTS OF DETAIL
This is a completely self contained development that has 38 buildings, all restored to pristine condition. On 1200 fertile acres, with endless water resources.
I envision a community of Liberty minded people coming together to run and maintain this operation.
Any Takers?

A Special Event @ River Stone


Food production
Profitable farm
1200 acres of resources
Gas wells
Resort potential
River destination
Golf near-by
The Allegheny Grille
Black Forest Restaurant
Foxburg Pizza & Country Store
Foxburg Wine Cellars
Foxburg Inn
The Allegheny RiverStone Center for Performing Arts
Divani Chocolate Boutique
Prime Outlets Grove City
The Foxburg Country Club
Pine Grove Golf Course
Olde Stonewall
Biking and Hiking
Pennsylvania Great Outdoors
Segway of Western PA
Boating and Fishing
Moraine State Park
Riffle Runner Excursions
Canoing and Kayaking
Parker’s Landing Canoe Livery
Riverview Sportsman Canoe Livery
And if you like the concept please VOTE it UP!

Help Wanted:
Medical Worker
Experienced Livestock expert
Bee Keeper
IT Tech
Business Manager
Event Planner
Organic Chef
Experienced Organic farmer
Experienced with Aquaponics and Growing MicroGreens
Experienced with Pond Stocking and Fish Farming
Tallow Chandler(candle maker),
Biofuels pro
3D Printing Tech
Resource Media Specialist (Librarian)
Solar Energy Specialist


Love it
Submitted by Michael Nystrom on Thu, 10/24/2013

How would you decide who gets to come and stay?
BT: Initially I would build a team one-by-one. Then we'd decide as a team on future members.
I think the former Daily Paul 'all comers welcome' model wouldn't be the model. Prior to entry, people would have to demonstrate their worth to the community. It would be a little harder to ban someone from there, in the physical world, and I'm no one should be so naive to think that peace love and liberty would make things all work out.
BT: Right on all counts
A communist commune? That would be doomed to failure.
BT: Right
There is a model of a similar place in Kunstler's post-apocalyptic novel World Made By Hand. It was a productive place. It had flour! In a world where global payments and communications have broken down, that is no small feat. This place you're showing us also has that capability.
BT: I’d have to read the book. But I've also been talking to this seller for three years now.
But the devil is in the details. The farm in Kunstler's novel was basically run by one guy as I recall. The benign dictator/monarch model can work fine for a while. The Daily Paul is basically a dictatorship with a self appointed mayor.
BT: We have learned a great deal from being part of the Daily Paul. The kind of lessons that would help avoid many pitfalls in a community like River Stone.
That is fine for a while, but in the long term it is not stable (for a website, or for a community such as the one you describe). What kind of governance structure do you envision such a place having? It would be a huge operation to run, involving thousands of people.
I like the idea, very much. Like a real world Daily Paul. I'm not a medical worker, but I have some valuable knowledge on community management and relations. :)
- - -
I made it to Taiwan. The time difference is exactly 12 hours. It is 2:30 in the morning. Jet lag woke me up, so I thought I'd check in. I'll have more of an update later, after I've collected my thoughts. But I saw this thread and couldn't help but comment.
- - -
Thanks! Keep it going. BTW, when I ran into my old friend "the market socialist" (Ron Paul Class of 2007) at Whole Foods the other day we talked about the other members of our erstwhile group. One guy, also RP Class of 2007 he said is up in NH living on some kind of a 'liberty commune' (for lack of a better term).
I'll see if I can get in touch with him and see what's going on.
How about a whole network of 'liberty communes' across the country? They'd have to have better names, obviously. Government free zones? But they'd need governments of their own.
- - -
When it was clear that communism was a failure, the Chinese government began experimenting with regulation-free zones. I can see the same thing happening with this country down the line.
Good work BT. Always stay ahead of the pack!

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funny. But that little documentary is quite interesting.

UPDATE 12/20

This guy nailed it.
Submitted by Barracuda_Trader on Fri, 12/20/2013 - 14:29.

If the world (people), think they can get subsidized, they will not contribute effort or positive and productive energy.

People are wired for two things;
1) Self interest
2) Recognition
This writer that Nystrom is 'using' to vicariously express his own feelings has illustrated what the world looks like when Self interest and Recognition have been perverted.
The writer expresses the sense of 'drain' on his energy and the irritation that the 'looky-loos' and the 'spectators' bring.

What am I saying?
When I have a job to do, a paycheck to earn or a bonus at stake I am very interested in the outcome.
When I have worked hard to make something excellent, I appreciate the recognition people express.
The personal investment causes me to bring energy and enthusiasm to the party naturally.

So what did I get out of this dramatization of Nystrom's?
I got confirmation that I am on the right track of creating an environment where people can prosper and be recognized for hard work that effects the lives of their partners in a common venture.

Just in the last 24 hours I have been making good on something I shared here back in October. And I said back in October, I would make my move around the holidays when things are slow and sellers are anxious, in real estate.

I have been negotiating the acquisition of a 'town' in Pennsylvania called Foxburg.
I'll let these excerpts from our communications speak for themselves;

Sent: Friday, December 20, 2013 9:33:25 AM
Subject: 615 Riverstone Lane - Additional Information
As per our conversation yesterday, I'm providing additional information regarding the Riverstone Estate and the town of Foxburg:
There is not an oil/gas lease on the property, and all mineral rights are included
The town is also for sale for $5,500,000 consisting of retail businesses: restaurant, hotel, sandwich shop, candy store, wine store. The library, church and post office are not included.
Annual net income from the businesses owned by the seller is $350,000.
There are several small houses and lots in the town that are owned by the seller.
A 46 acre parcel is for sale on the opposite side of the town along the river - price $899,000 (not owned by the seller)
A new sewage plant services Foxburg and Richland Township and 200 new taps are available. Foxburg has its own water supply system.
The Riverstone Estate is located in Richland Township
Please let me know if you have any other questions. I will be at the estate tomorrow.
Thank you for the concise summary.
It amazes me that I couldn't get this from Drew but here it is today, like magic.
While I don't have much time to get into this right now, the timing is perfect with your pending visit to inquire
about any furnishings and/or art work that makes the property what it is.
I'm not bargain hunting or looking to 'rob' the Steffee's.
Rather I want to preserve and continue to build on what they have so painstakingly done.
Therefore I am interested in seeing an inventory and a ball park value.
A listing of;
~ Artwork
~ Furnishings they feel are integral to the decor, especially the main house.
~ Collections i.e. Carriages, Farm Implements, Relics, etc.
~ Farm equipment (modern)
~ Any other category of River Stone assets
I realize the list is long and it takes work to reduce all of these things to writing but I have always been interested in keeping the package together as much as possible to preserve and expand upon. These are the elements that make River Stone what it is. It is a living work of art and as such must be preserved.
I'm not going to 'haggle' over these items. I sincerely want to know what the Steffee's have in mind so that I can plan accordingly.
I already have a figure from Drew on the operational expenses so don't spend time on that. I don't need it.
As far as seeing the property, I may not see it before I make my offer.
I've researched the town, the property, the politics etc. I know what I'm after. And as I said on the phone, some other opportunities have come available to us that make the I-80 corridor more workable for us.
At this point I sense the Steffee's have had the time they need, and are ready to transition. Between you and I, I don't believe that was the case when I last inquired.
FYI, We are evaluating three 'hubs' to concentrate investment. They involve the acquisition of legacy properties, the collector car business, agriculture and motorsports. We will chose one from the following areas;
North Strabane
Foxburg is a reasonable distance via copter, from Pittsburgh International Race Complex, Wampum, PA.
It also has the advantage of the collection of Dr. Steffee's commercial businesses and the available 46 acres on Railroad Street for a collector car museum.
As always, I assume you will keep these comments confidential. I share this with you to give you a sense of our plans and to invite any insights or advice you might offer.

Just take over a place

"take over" Interesting

"take over"
Interesting choice of words.

Thanks Granger! Ishvara looks good for 80

I've traveled most of the same paths as Robert F. Hartley.
I was surprised he was a Summer Hill School devotee. I studied and applied A.S.Neil's principles in my role as a teacher, school administrator and eventually my own private school.

I'm stealing the various applications on their website for employment ideas.

Residency at Harbin Hot Springs
Before being accepted, applicants for candidacy need to pass an interview process (in
person), plus a job of 30hrs/week needs to be available. Availability of work is
unpredictable, but generally more work opportunities occur during our peak season which
s from May through October.
Applicants who are accepted join the candidate program

a time of orientation to the
lifestyle and work environment during which both the individual and the candidate council
can choose whether to proceed with residency.
idacy: The first three months
Work requirement: 30 hours/wk
Compensation: begins at minimum wage (CA
$8.00/hr) or more
Housing: on
property camping ($60/wk), shared community house in Middletown
($62/wk + utlities), or on
property dormitory (($66
Security deposit: $500
Weekly dues: $42/wk
allows candidates and residents unlimited access to the pools,
Harbin events, classes, dances and community gatherings as well as discounts in the Harbin
Restaurant and Market
Optional: Harbin’s Delt
a Dental Group Plan
After 3 months of candidacy you become a first year resident with the additional benefits
of 1 guest pass per month, the possibility of a reduction in dues based on work
performance and discounts on many workshops.
ng your first 6 months at Harbin, jobs are assigned through the Human Resources
Department. Every job is important to the smooth functioning of our retreat center.
Regardless of whether we welcome guests at reception, clean up after them, serve them in
restaurant or repair the plumbing, we are all part of a team living the meaning of
After 6 months there is the option to join the Harbin
subsidized health insurance plan.
After 1 year you receive full resident membership in the Harbin communi
It is a simple life at Harbin; abundance lies in the natural beauty of the land and waters. It
lies in the richness of the people and the opportunity for conscious growth and celebration.
Come with a positive attitude, ready to contribute your gifts
and skills to the growth of
Harbin. Come with a committed work ethic because service to our guests and fellow
residents creates the foundation on which we build our individual and collective
experience of community. Come with an open heart to participate
in our sweet and
supportive community.

Now that 2014/2016 Campaign

Now that 2014/2016 Campaign season has officially kicked off it's pretty obvious which way we're headed.
And it's becoming more obvious that people need to find more ways to insulate themselves from the inevitable chaos that will come.

I think it is cheaper

to just buy 1000 acres somewhere and incorporate your own town. I can think of areas you can get 1000 acres for around $1 million. Create your own electricity so you aren't reliant on big energy and go from there. Each person who wants to live in said town pays $x for an acre of land for their house. x amount of acres will be set aside for commercial, farming, energy, etc. Each landowner has a say in the local government.

I think this route makes more sense than spending $19 million and you are still part of a city where a politician(s) can ruin everything you are trying to build.

Well my plan is to purchase

Well my plan is to purchase the property.
Then recruit 30-40 people to sustain it. No investment required.
I'm 62.
I will bequeath shares of the property to those stewards.
If a steward wants out they get bought out @ 100% profit.
This property is already self sustaining.
Plenty of space for solar and I have the best solar tech I've seen on my team. http://www.adamsolarresources.com/
The property already produces it's own natural gas and sells excess for a profit. It also has industrial natural gas powered generators that supply electricity.
Water is huge. This property has plentiful water resources.
As far as incorporating? This property already has a political advantage and the current owner has the position and political capital to incorporate the 1200 acres as it's own town.
I'm not looking to complicate the deal with subdivisions and codes.
I'm looking to build a cohesive team that can weather the storm and thrive no matter what is going on in the urban areas.
The property also has a mile long landing strip. TSA free!
I am still evaluating the various entities to hold the ownership of the property.
There are also numerous business opportunities for this property and several other off site, businesses available locally. Those are currently running, profitable, top quality businesses.
I've really studied this thing and sought legal advice.

You probably know more about legal entities than I do, but

are you considering forming an LLC? That way the "purpose" could be stated as any legal activity, and you could appoint yourself as Manager. Ownership in the LLC could be just you, or you could take whatever majority interest you want and divide up the rest between the people in the community.

I'd be interested in knowing what type of entities you are looking into and why. At least that's something I can wrap my brain around.

“It is the food which you furnish to your mind that determines the whole character of your life.”
―Emmet Fox

LLC's would be used as sub

LLC's would be used as sub entities to hold various assets for liability protection or for asset protection.
But we are considering forming a trust or foundation for the overall "educational" corporation. Something to hold an endowment.
Education can cover aa multitude of compartments while providing some exemptions from typical business regulations.

The lawyers have different strategies.

There is an endowment that would support all expenses, salaries, and taxes for twenty years.

So regardless of the property's ability to produce income there will be twenty years where all stewards will have income, housing, transportation, retirement fund, medical insurance and medical services by a staff doctor -- all provided by the endowment as long as they fulfill their 'employment' obligations. That's a lot to lose if someone wants to "be an issue".

I like it!

Seems you have things well in hand. Can't wait to be able to take that trip out there to see the area for my 2 day vacation! Wasn't able to do it at this time, like I'd wanted. It's still on my mind, though.

“It is the food which you furnish to your mind that determines the whole character of your life.”
―Emmet Fox

Social group may be key to fostering creativity

Dylan Ratigan | TZM San Diego

Email from Dylan;
Dear Friends,
When my good friend "Forager" Mike Hanes invited me to speak to a Zeitgeist gathering in San Diego http://theconversation.com/social-group-may-be-key-to-foster...
this past spring, I figured I had better say yes. Mike is a former Rec on Marine with multiple combat tours and I assume his methods for dealing with resistance aren't pain-free.

Although I'm not a member of the Zeitgeist community myself and have a healthy distrust of movements in general, I enjoyed the chance to speak with a group of (mostly) young men and women interested in actively pursuing a better society based on abundance, transparency and laws and policies that are more responsive to our needs.

Check out my appearance at the event:


I realize that time is in short supply and heavy demand for all of us, but it's hard to think of a better investment of this precious resource than time spent learning about issues and experiences from a broad variety of perspectives. If nothing else, tapping into the perspectives of a wider variety of groups and individuals has been shown to increase creativity, empathy and intelligence.

Sounds like time well spent to me.

Onward and upward,


A Very Powerful R3volution - Healing Human Beings

One of the reasons I zeroed in on River Stone three years ago is I saw something very unexpected and powerful that changes our sick human condition. Horses. This video is just a taste... a tease to something astonishing. River Stone will be a haven for human sanity.


Stable Minds

[ I share some of my favorite snippets of horse sense, and sensibility ]


'To me, horses and freedom are synonymous.'  ~Veryl Goodnight

Barracuda, it comes down to lessons in communication and relationship, doesn't it?

'Where in this wide world can man find nobility without pride,
Friendship without envy,
Or beauty without vanity?
Here, where grace is served with muscle
And strength by gentleness confined
He serves without servility; he has fought without enmity.
There is nothing so powerful, nothing less violent.
There is nothing so quick, nothing more patient.'
~Ronald Duncan, "The Horse," 1954

'A man on a horse is spiritually as well as physically bigger than a man on foot.'
  ~John Steinbeck

When I want to cheer up I saddle up, ...

'There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man.'  ~Winston Churchill 

but I have a particular fondness for my relationships with draft horses.

"There are unknown worlds of knowledge in brutes; and whenever you mark a horse, or a dog, with a peculiarly mild, calm, deep-seated eye, be sure he is an Aristotle or a Kant, tranquilly speculating upon the mysteries in man.  No philosophers so thoroughly comprehend us as dogs and horses.  They see through us at a glance.  And after all, what is a horse but a species of four-footed dumb man, in a leathern overall, who happens to live upon oats, and toils for his masters, half-requited or abused, like the biped hewers of wood and drawers of water?  But there is a touch of divinity even in brutes, and a special halo about a horse, that should forever exempt him from indignities.  As for those majestic, magisterial truck-horses of the docks, I would as soon think of striking a judge on the bench, as to lay violent hand upon their holy hides."
"Among all the sights of the docks, the noble truck-horses are not the least striking to a stranger.  They are large and powerful brutes, with such sleek and glossy coats, that they look as if brushed and put on by a valet every morning.  They march with a slow and stately step, lifting their ponderous hoofs like royal Siam elephants.  Thou shalt not lay stripes upon these Roman citizens; for their docility is such, they are guided without rein or lash; they go or come, halt or march on, at a whisper.  So grave, dignified, gentlemanly, and courteous did these fine truck-horses look - so full of calm intelligence and sagacity, that often I endeavored to get into conversation with them, as they stood in contemplative attitudes while their loads were preparing.  But all I could get from them was the mere recognition of a friendly neigh; though I would stake much upon it that, could I have spoken in their language, I would have derived from them a good deal of valuable information touching the docks, where they passed the whole of their dignified lives."  ~Herman Melville, Redburn. His First Voyage, 1849

LibBerte, In '08 I hired a natural horse trainer to teach me

about horse training. And I didn't even own a horse!
I went to different places to watch him train 'bad case' horses with issues.
Changed my life.
It was around that time I discovered Nevzorov Haute Ecole.

It was a whole completely different level. My horse trainer, as good as he was, got angry watching Nevzorov work. It was so foreign to him.

Since then I've come to see the horse as a nuclear weapon in therapy for human beings.

Just 5 years ago it was so obscure. Today it's got a robust Facebook page. And certified trainers around the world. https://www.facebook.com/NevzorovHauteEcole

Alexander Nevzorov's wife Lydia Nevzorova is a specialist in hippology and Equine Thermographist (musculoskeletal system).


Liberty Training ...

... in the broadest sense.


Hey Neigh-bor, I actually remember that conversation years ago where you described the experience:


Being acquainted a bit with horses myself, I find the topic fascinating and familiar.

I couldn't open the video you included in the post above since I'm on a mobile device at present, but I'm intrigued particularly by the titillatingly fetching photo of Lydia marking the site you reference. ;-)
It appears the Nevzorova's program of natural horsemanship is in accord with several prominent trainers in such methods that, as you no doubt well understand, are truly instructive beyond just the equine context.

The introduction to Pat Parelli's program, for example, contains these words of broad description:

"[The Parelli program] is based on respect for and love of horses – and understanding horse nature and psychology – Parelli horse training avoids using force, fear, harsh bits or mechanical training aids in favor of love, language and leadership or, said another way: relationship, communication and trustworthiness..."
“It’s more than just about the horse,” reflects Linda Parelli. “It really dips into the personal development side of things. You learn about yourself, you learn about communication, about leadership, about truthfulness, about consequence and responsibility. You learn about love and imagination. The horse becomes the animal that tells you the truth about yourself in all these categories.”
“People realize this is what they’ve been looking for in all their relationships,” adds Pat. “It’s balanced with love, language and leadership in equal doses. The program and their horse give them a living model so they can practice and become fluent in their abilities in all relationships, not just the horse relationships.”



Sure Has Been A Journey

Nevzorov doesn't even believe we should ride horses anymore!
Bad for their spine.

Cello Fury

The Feds would love it:

Ruby ridge
Liberty River Stone

"Endless money forms the sinews of war." - Cicero, www.freedomshift.blogspot.com

That is what my first thought was.

When you concentrate troops they become an easy target. Since the forces of government are superior to the forces of freedom, we are much safer being disbursed and difficult to hunt down by this government gone wild.

"Bend over and grab your ankles" should be etched in stone at the entrance to every government building and every government office.

I wish this endeavor heartfelt success--

but I feel the same way. I'd rather 'hide'--

besides I noticed there were no churches; not that anyone really wants to invite corporate churches, but some of *us* are involved with them, nonetheless, to our deep shame--

between a rock and a hard place

darned if you do; darned if you don't--

some of this are doing this, somewhat, with pre-existing communities--

our 'dependence' on local farmers and our boycotting of *our* local WalMart, for example--

we know our farmers and their families--

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

Me too

but I feel the same way. I'd rather 'hide'--
One reason I've justified waiting out the seller is, "Who needs the headaches and possible government intrusion a lead bull seems to draw?"
besides I noticed there were no churches; not that anyone really wants to invite corporate churches, but some of *us* are involved with them, nonetheless, to our deep shame--
Having been all through the mega church thing... The Word is something we live. Period. All the rest is "cash flow Christianity". There will be daily - m-f worship and prayer for those who want it. I believe Sundays could be days that our Christians go out to other churches and see how we as a community can bless them.
between a rock and a hard place

darned if you do; darned if you don't--
Right. And everybody wants to go to Heaven... but nobody wants to die. As I age I am more ready to go.
some of this are doing this, somewhat, with pre-existing communities--

our 'dependence' on local farmers and our boycotting of *our* local WalMart, for example--

we know our farmers and their families--
River Stone will be a place where there is no produce or meat/dairy sold to the public. Anticipating the day if/when it becomes outlawed. As 'owner residents' we simply have access to our own products. Possibly one exception would be the River Stone Farms Maple Syrup. It'sells.

“You will find only what you bring in.” - Yoda

That’s what Luke is told in “The Empire Strikes Back” before he goes into the cave on Yoda’s home planet.
From another reply
8. There's nothing political or ideological in that mix.
9. All those who become a part of the team are bound by the laws of the land - right or wrong.
10. Our purpose is to profit and prosper to the best of our ability NOT defy the laws of the land by violating those laws.
11. River Stone is an alternative to surrendering citizenship, packing up and moving to another country where things might change only to have that solution become worse than what we have here. After all they don't call it globalism for nothing.
12 We will rely on our ability to focus on solutions that bring prosperity.
13. We will not focus or expend our energy and resources on fighting the system. Because it's going to fail anyway.

'Ye shall prosper by what thou puttest out into the world'...

in other words, exports are key.

Don't feed the pandas. Ever.

chris cudnoski

Mis-understands me like you do.
Love You!

And the...

Free State Project?

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

Love the photos!

That magnificent carved woodwork reminded me of my boarding school days when we had to take special care of dusting into the grooves of the elegant woodwork carvings on the walls and railings on a daily basis and rubbing lemon oil into it all once a week. Those grooves are beautiful but, need a lot of care. You'll need an entire crew to do that there.

The leaves on the building look lovely but, better get rid of them before the gutters get completely clogged and mold sets in.

“It is the food which you furnish to your mind that determines the whole character of your life.”
―Emmet Fox

Nonna! You're Hired!

Director of Carving and Gutter Preservation
- Salary $70,000/yr
- Company Car
- Medical
- Meals
- Cell phone
- 4 Weeks Paid Vacay
- Housing w/ Maid Service & Utilities

Can you deal with that?
Oh And here's your welcome gift.
iRobot Looj 330 Gutter Cleaning Robot

Love it! LOL

Does this mean I'm invited to relocate there when you get title?

Still considering driving out there for a very short vacation. Is the Foxburg Inn closed? I checked online for a hotel and wasn't able to make the connection. Could you suggest another hotel nearby? Oh... and are the grounds open for visitors?

“It is the food which you furnish to your mind that determines the whole character of your life.”
―Emmet Fox