63 votes

Nystrom said "...bring all your interests here." ~ OK. The Ultimate Liberty Community UPDATE: 3/20

UPDATE: 4/20/2014 I have begun looking for locations in New Hampshire.
Unfortunately my business keeps me nailed down until June. But I am working with a real estate agent. We are sifting through property listings. This is the new thread;
Any Free Staters Here Know 'About New Hampshire?
UPDATE: 3/20/2014
The River Stone property deal has fallen apart. In the course of doing the last round of investigation I became aware of an important change in regards to the local gas drilling activity.
When I originally looked at River Stone in 2010, all information indicated that River Stone was out of the way in terms of it's desirability for drilling. There were no collection pipelines for transmitting natural gas then. All indications including low ball lease offers to the seller and my own industry contacts proved that River Stone would be safe from the drilling boom.
That has changed. A few weeks ago I had a conversation with an investment firm's managing partner. He said they were investing almost a billion dollars in drilling infrastructure in that area. Almost simultaneously, the seller was approached with an offer to buy the mineral rights to the property. While I agreed to keep the details of the offer confidential, I can say that the offer was extremely generous compared to some of the highest offers I've heard about. These two pieces of information indicated a very big shift. In addition I became aware of an east west pipeline being promoted by the state of Ohio.
These developments made River Stone too risky to invest in.
So I withdrew from the negotiation process.

The Ultimate Liberty Community
River Stone Estate:
UPDATE 12/20
This guy nailed it.
Submitted by Barracuda_Trader on Fri, 12/20/2013 - 14:29.

UPDATE: NEW! My Liberty River Stone Photo Album - LOTS OF DETAIL
This is a completely self contained development that has 38 buildings, all restored to pristine condition. On 1200 fertile acres, with endless water resources.
I envision a community of Liberty minded people coming together to run and maintain this operation.
Any Takers?

A Special Event @ River Stone


Food production
Profitable farm
1200 acres of resources
Gas wells
Resort potential
River destination
Golf near-by
The Allegheny Grille
Black Forest Restaurant
Foxburg Pizza & Country Store
Foxburg Wine Cellars
Foxburg Inn
The Allegheny RiverStone Center for Performing Arts
Divani Chocolate Boutique
Prime Outlets Grove City
The Foxburg Country Club
Pine Grove Golf Course
Olde Stonewall
Biking and Hiking
Pennsylvania Great Outdoors
Segway of Western PA
Boating and Fishing
Moraine State Park
Riffle Runner Excursions
Canoing and Kayaking
Parker’s Landing Canoe Livery
Riverview Sportsman Canoe Livery
And if you like the concept please VOTE it UP!

Help Wanted:
Medical Worker
Experienced Livestock expert
Bee Keeper
IT Tech
Business Manager
Event Planner
Organic Chef
Experienced Organic farmer
Experienced with Aquaponics and Growing MicroGreens
Experienced with Pond Stocking and Fish Farming
Tallow Chandler(candle maker),
Biofuels pro
3D Printing Tech
Resource Media Specialist (Librarian)
Solar Energy Specialist


Love it
Submitted by Michael Nystrom on Thu, 10/24/2013

How would you decide who gets to come and stay?
BT: Initially I would build a team one-by-one. Then we'd decide as a team on future members.
I think the former Daily Paul 'all comers welcome' model wouldn't be the model. Prior to entry, people would have to demonstrate their worth to the community. It would be a little harder to ban someone from there, in the physical world, and I'm no one should be so naive to think that peace love and liberty would make things all work out.
BT: Right on all counts
A communist commune? That would be doomed to failure.
BT: Right
There is a model of a similar place in Kunstler's post-apocalyptic novel World Made By Hand. It was a productive place. It had flour! In a world where global payments and communications have broken down, that is no small feat. This place you're showing us also has that capability.
BT: I’d have to read the book. But I've also been talking to this seller for three years now.
But the devil is in the details. The farm in Kunstler's novel was basically run by one guy as I recall. The benign dictator/monarch model can work fine for a while. The Daily Paul is basically a dictatorship with a self appointed mayor.
BT: We have learned a great deal from being part of the Daily Paul. The kind of lessons that would help avoid many pitfalls in a community like River Stone.
That is fine for a while, but in the long term it is not stable (for a website, or for a community such as the one you describe). What kind of governance structure do you envision such a place having? It would be a huge operation to run, involving thousands of people.
I like the idea, very much. Like a real world Daily Paul. I'm not a medical worker, but I have some valuable knowledge on community management and relations. :)
- - -
I made it to Taiwan. The time difference is exactly 12 hours. It is 2:30 in the morning. Jet lag woke me up, so I thought I'd check in. I'll have more of an update later, after I've collected my thoughts. But I saw this thread and couldn't help but comment.
- - -
Thanks! Keep it going. BTW, when I ran into my old friend "the market socialist" (Ron Paul Class of 2007) at Whole Foods the other day we talked about the other members of our erstwhile group. One guy, also RP Class of 2007 he said is up in NH living on some kind of a 'liberty commune' (for lack of a better term).
I'll see if I can get in touch with him and see what's going on.
How about a whole network of 'liberty communes' across the country? They'd have to have better names, obviously. Government free zones? But they'd need governments of their own.
- - -
When it was clear that communism was a failure, the Chinese government began experimenting with regulation-free zones. I can see the same thing happening with this country down the line.
Good work BT. Always stay ahead of the pack!

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Holy Farrier Batman!

How could I forget?
You'd probably be right up there with the resident doctor and veterinarian in terms of being a rock start idol.

Actually? lol

Neither one could do their own trade without the knowledge I have to make the tools they will need from raw ore. The ancient historic "ages" are named after metals for a reason, lol. Your concept is a dream of mine too man. I already have a spot paid for. Thanks for the post, It's great!

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

Don't mean to rain on you, but., unless you establish a ...

central bank, Obama would send in drone strikes with a week. Of course, you could apply "dead man fusing" with your homicidal snipers.

I have several contacts that

I have several contacts that I've been brainstorming with who are experts on robotic ground vehicles.
The vehicles they build are 1,000 pound ATV's. Low profile, compact, very powerful and can be fitted with real time, joy stick operated, cameras, audio and weaponry. It's a safe way to do security rounds of the grounds.
Another dude is the foremost expert on solar power products here in Pittsburgh.

The More I Think About It

The more I think that we need to just buy 1000 + acres and start our own little town, as in incorporate a town so we can set taxes also. If we have a liberty zone, but are still at the whim of some local city councilmen who will raise taxes on the drop of a dime we have gained nothing.


that would be a great idea.
Establish a STRONG local constitution, that limits the power of government.
Then the people would live relatively free from government intervention. In fact, make the local government what most people think government is, some kind of mutually owned management company, with no power to make laws that interfere with the private affairs of the individual which do not harm another.

And some people call ME a dreamer!

AmeriKa is rapidly descending into a dark time that has never been witnessed before.

The only hope in my opinion is to weather the darkest of ages in a remote place.

The laws are going to get worse not better. The police state is going to get much stronger before it collapses.

There will be no limited powers for some time. In fact the only limits will come when free, and prosperous nations eat AmeriKa's lunch. Then the powers will recede. When AmeriKa's credit cards are no longer accepted.

River Stone is the 'seat of power' in

No troubles from the locals.
And no other politicians pay any attention to Foxburg because it's relatively remote.

"Go Foxburg" Video Series

Just about every business highlighted in this video was built by Dr. Steffee who owns River Stone


need to consider

a tattoo artist and sniper on staff

Oh Sorry No Tat's

Homicidal Snipers... YES!

Why no tats?

Why no tats?

I'm an old

dick. That's why.
When I die tat's will be allowed.

Bump! Haha!

Bump for extremely funny post!!!

Exercise Liberty...and an extreme sense of humor!

America Rising.
The Constitution Stands.

"That the pen is mightier than the sword would be proven false; if I should take my sword and cut off the hand that holds the pen" - American Nomad

if you are serious about this, learn from Twin Oaks

These people have been running a successful commune since 1967 in central Virginia:


They support themselves through market farming and they are good at it. Some people from there have recently split off and started two new communes in central Virginia: Acorn, which runs the Southern Exposure Seed Exchange business, and Living Energy Farm, which is an attempt at living free from fossil fuel.

Now, these people are obviously communism-oriented, and I am not suggesting that this be modeled on them at all (Income-sharing? No, thanks). But one of the founders of Twin Oaks has written a couple of books about their experiences and I am sure that there is much to be learned about the type of issues that would arise and how to deal with them. Plus, both Twin Oaks and Acorn run successful businesses, so they are all about self-sufficiency.

I just thought I would throw this out there in case people weren't aware of these communities. If an intentional community based on communism can work, wouldn't one based on libertarianism be that much better? Let's try it our way!

“The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants.” — Albert Camus

Permaculture Designer rather than compartment management

I don't think this is for me as I live in Florida and plan on staying, but I would strongly recommend getting a Permaculture Designer, I should be one in a month, who can design the entire property for productive living. Then people can decide where they wanted to live on property and a common currency could be created on property.

Just some thoughts...

Yours in Health and Freedom

Hey Cicobiologist, Flip a Coin

Heads I win. We don't go ice age and River Stone succeeds)
Tails I lose and River Stone becomes Arctic tundra.

The currency is largely a barter system of work in exchange for house car, land, medical care, utilities, food, fun, air transportation, clothing (uniforms) and various forms of money.

Nice :)

I was reading about establishing the perfect currency and it was one based on the valuation of goods available by those trading the currency.

The idea is that everyone calculates the value of their goods and instead of trading goods all of the time you can trade the paper (or electronically) so you aren't always transporting goods. Just a thought...

In any case, I do recommend you get a permaculture designer as you can utilized all of the space for something valuable.

Just sent this message to someone who emailed me after my comment...this is some of the stuff that's possible with permaculture (combines the words "permanent" and "agriculture"). Perennial crops are the foundation with seasonal corps annuals as an added value.

My youngest brother just got certified as a Permaculture Designer and I enjoyed auditing the course.

Here are a few things to start out with...


:)...check out these videos:



If you can watch the whole video it's worth it.

If you only have 1 hour watch from time 1:00 - 2:00

If you only have a half hour watch 1:30-2:30


Please watch the following sections (about 12 min total time)

47:00 - 49:00 (black water ideas, at a school in Bahamas)
50:00 - 55:00 (community activity
1:00 - 1:06 (Education ideas via nature ;)

Yours in Health and Freedom

I'm familiar with Permaculture.

My timeline would be to work with Joel Salatin's son, Daniel to get the staff trained up and the land cycling with the polyface farming concept.
I've talked with Joel extensively and I've done the math.
Polyface is extremely profitable.
It rebuilds the soil and the spiritual aspect is powerful.

The Permaculture system would be introduced at the same time but it is an even longer term proposition.

I also see mushroom farming and the fish based aquaponics as highly profitable and fast.


Hey Baracuda....

You need to put together a video
Of this great idea. Let me know when
Your ready. :)


Yeah something to sell your above idea.
By the way here's my updated demo...
That one was many years ago. :)

Thanks Baracuda. :)

Here's a link to my website...

Nui. You know how fast you can pay off

a facility like this with one or two seasons of a reality show.

That's one of the qualities I look for in a legacy property like this that has the intrinsic value but may be languishing on the market.
$19 million for this complex is about 25% or less of what it would cost to replace.


A REAL reality show would be interesting.

The worse things get the more we'll see "normal"

middle class Americans wanting to enter into shared living (it's already happening) arrangements where the quality of life is high and the daily toil stuff is shared.

That's what Zappo's, Amazon, Facebook, Google are each doing in one way or another. Shared living. Meals cooked, housekeeping handled etc.
A team effort for a variety of personalities looking for a tranquil, predictable, stable life.
Like what families used to be before Mommy had to go to work and daddy became a slave to the job.

I'm Interested

But I can only bring money as I own an online retail company. I mean I am a business manager and can help with IT stuff. I will run my business from there. My assumption is we would each get X amount of acres to build our own house on. We would need to figure out how to divide up the taxes also. 19.5 million,

100 families at $195k each can pay for the property....

By the way, I am serious... :)


I don't yet know if people would take ownership of land parcels. Personally I'd rather be issued silver or gold for my equity. It's safe and far more liquid.
Taxes. I'd rather have a business entity pays the taxes because it's been my experience that the best "non-profit" entity with the least government red tape and booby traps is an L.l.c that shows marginal net profits.
And it's also been my first hand experience that any 'home based' residential/agricultural business produces maximum deductibles in the form of all the living necessities.

If you list every thing you spend money on every month (of a personal nature,) most are not normally deductible.

i.e. If I have a maid service for my house, it's not deductible. But if it's for a 'hotel' or B'nB it is deductible.

So that's a cornerstone I'd prefer to build this thing around for myself and my successors.