25 votes

Don't Kill The Questioner

Why, when I question things, do people get emotional and not think rationally.

I will use my question about minimum wage as an example. The Daily Paul users had a nice debate. Some I agree with and some I don't. It's great to debate topics so we all can learn.

Unlike Daily Paul, Reddit users have no argument. Take a look:

Question: Should Minimum Wage Be A Crime?

Answers from Reddit users:

"What an incredibly idiotic question."

"Fuck people who think this!"

"Should libertarianism be a crime? I'd like to see that in debates."

"I do enjoy how they shut off the potential for disagreeing opinions entering the discussion before they even start it."

"I'm way beyond sick of Libertarians abusing variations of the phrase "threats of violence" to refer to any kind of law or regulation. Next time I hear it, I'm going to punch the speaker in the throat."

Goes to show that government schools have succeeded in teaching people how to argue emotionally rather than having an intellectual debate based on facts.

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Reddit users

equal dumb as a box of rocks.

agree but disagree

Yes, I agree that they demonstrate closed-mindedness and hostility to things that the media hasn't spoon fed them readily and consistently.

Those are bad qualities in a citizen or a person who is choosing to discuss matters.

But the same thing goes on here. Post a thread critical of someone's pet conspiracy or wacked out proofless legal theory, and watch the cretins come out of the woodwork. Never mind that these things have nothing to do with "restoring constitutional government" to the US.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

And you among them?

The Cretins that is. From what I've seen, all of your arguments are based on the following:

1. We have a system of courts.
2. I am a lawyer with every interest in maintaining that system.
3. The morality of that system cannot be questioned.

Since you seem utterly unable to think any deeper than this kind of "reasoning," perhaps you bring out unreasonableness in others as well.

When will you be willing to question your wacked out proofless legal theory? (Oh, I know. I should read 1-3.)

great reasoning there bud

first of all, there is no motivation of "maintaining that system" in my posts. The "system" isn't under any kind of threat. So, no that has nothing to do with my reasoning. It is a distraction that some like to engage in to avoid discussing the merits of an issue.

However, the first half of that statement is true, I am a lawyer. That means I have studied the things that are discussed here, and actually know what happens in the system and am not just here bs ing people and pulling things out of my rear.

The morality of the system should be and is questioned, most of all by lawyers. We question it all the time.

Sorry if it offends you, there is no straw man, no secret govt bank accounts in capital letters, no UCC protocol for accessing your secret money by "accepted for value". If any of those things existed, someone could cite to an actual law, or evidence, that it exists. I'm not going to prove a negative for you. If you believe in ghosts, sasquatch, and admiralty law hoaxes, that is your prerogative. I will, however, correct you and lampoon you from time to time. It's fun.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

Should Minimum Wage Be A Crime?

YES! The gov. has no business in my business.

NO! It should not be a crime..... It IS a crime!.....

Don't sweat it. The Reddit guy's an idiot. Can't think outside the boob tubed box that he's got his head stuck in.

Because: Some animals are more equal than other animals. -Animal Farm-

What the? > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MTIwY3_-ks

Slaughts31's picture

If you really want your blood to boil...

...then go to the following subreddit http://www.reddit.com/r/Shitstatistssay/

I find it funny. But yes, the internet is full of trolls, paid shills, and malcontents.

So we should celebrate/cultivate the places that aren't full of it. Like the DP!

And if you branch out to other boards/discussions...take lots of deep breaths!

It is a stupid question

Should you make it a crime is a stupid question. Currently minimum wage is set by the government so in that sense it could never be a crime. Think about how that would work; a law setting a minimum wage would simply override a law outlawing laws on minimum wages. So that's out. If you are saying we should forbid people from setting a minimum wage within their own company I'd say that is anti-freedom and simply wrong.

Either way, the question is a bad one. Perhaps the question should be "Should we have minimum wage laws?"

Did you read the post?

First, no question is a stupid question. If you know the answer, you had to question it first to come to that conclusion.

Second, you didn't read the post if you are calling it a stupid question. It is clarified in the post the intent of the question in the title.

The big question:
Should the politicians responsible for passing minimum wage laws be criminally liable for destroying peoples lives?

I see you were coming to this conclusion. Minimum wage destroys ones pursuit of happiness. Therefor, those who take the pursuit of happiness away from people should be punished.

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Still a Stupid Question

So the "real" question is should we charge politicians with a crime (and make it a crime) for voting for a bad law? How is that not a stupid question? Should we charge the voters that voted for the politicians?

Yeah, it's a stupid question.

Hold Politicians Responsible

You just passed responsibility from those who actually created the laws to those who didn't create any laws. Minimum wage is used as a political tool to get more votes. Do you blame the voters in other parts of the world for voting in tyrants and dictators? The voters were promised all kinds of goodies and were delivered death and destruction instead.

I hold the politicians responsible for passing laws that are destructive to individuals.

The Treubig Show on Daily Paul Radio
*NEW* Spread Liberty with our free speech!

Did I take it the wrong way?

Reading my above comment back to myself, the question could be taken as "Should paying someone below the minimum wage be a crime" versus my interpretation of "Should a minimum wage law/requirement be a crime". The way it was asked in the opening post is poor.

LOL Reddit...

From what I've seen on reddit it's full of taxfeeders, school children, and weak people that need an authority figure to tell them how to live.


Makes me want to register at reddit.

EDIT: Makes me wanna join there, to spread ideas about liberty and freedom.

this is one of the most polite and thoughtful crowds online

Seriously. Sure, sometimes a thread descends into a bat and a chicken fighting over a scrap of ego. But most of the time, I read civil replies, thoughful insights, links to interesting books or articles, and so on.

This is a unique crowd. Michael has created something special. I don't know how much policing goes on in the background, but I like to think that we are self-policing most of the time. It gives me hope. We, humans, can evolve. Let's lead by example. Let's promote the culture of civility that we would like to see everywhere.

“The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants.” — Albert Camus

Over at FreedomWorks

They continuously talk about 'zombies', 'neocons', 'shills', and how they need to combine their grassroots efforts, overcome and win.

Any time that I positively mention Lee Bright, DOWN VOTE.

Anytime that I question nancy mace, DOWN VOTE.

Anytime that I positively mention Rand Paul, NOTHING.

Anytime that I question ted cruz, DOWN VOTE.

Anytime that I mention Ron Paul, A BIG FAT DOWN VOTE.

Anytime that I mention Justin Amash, NOTHING, because for the most part they do not know who he is.

There have been very few exceptions, very being the key word.

They honestly believe that I am an infiltrate, because they have come right out and stated it.

This is why I have made comments here on this board that our experiment with freedom is over. I do keep trying, but it is very difficult and disheartening.

Please forgive me for venting, I know that it is not becoming :-(

"What if the American people learn the truth" - Ron Paul

This dislike Cruz? I would

This dislike Cruz? I would have thought he would be right up their ally. I know in the Tea Parties he's quite popular.

To the contrary...

they idolize him.

"What if the American people learn the truth" - Ron Paul

The more involved in politics you are,

The less likely you are to change your views. Over all. I think. And yes I know it is not true about everyone.

We own the internet, so anyone who is politically active on the nets have already seen our points of view, and either adopted them or not.

People on the street are waking up, those on the net have had their chance.

They HAVE had their chance.

I have to agree here.

My experience is that those who have dismissed moral dissent on political grounds are hopelessly sold and compromised and invested in the Kingdom of Evil.

Don't waste your time on the knowingly criminally complicit. Keep looking for the ones who haven't sold their soul to Obama or whomever.

"Among the natural rights of the colonists are these: First a right to life, secondly to liberty, and thirdly to property; together with the right to defend them in the best manner they can."

~Samuel Adams

"People on the street are waking up"

Yes, some are. That is what continues to drive me.

Thanks for offering a little encouragement, Stonewall :-)

"What if the American people learn the truth" - Ron Paul

You're welcome.

In my experience people are ready to elect liberty people locally if I convince them they are 'Tea Party' (in Texas at least) they were just overwhelmed by all the propaganda against Ron Paul in particular.

The media prefers to ignore liberty candidates on the local level, rather than demonize them and give them free publicity.

Behavioral Modification

Response conditioning

Manufactured consent


False propaganda

Fear mongering


Derisive, division, straw man, false flag, projection, transference, defection, deception, parroting, just following orders, nothing personal, just kidding, devils advocate, euphemism, distortions, lies, fraud, threats, enslavement, persecution, rape, robbery, extortion, all, made legal, for the few to do, and for the many to be punished for doing.

Monkey see, monkey do, see not, hear not, speak not, for the National Interest; which happens to be a foreign Nation's Interest.

Aiding, abetting, enemies foreign and domestic.

Not news:


"Society in every state is a blessing, but Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one: for when we suffer, or are exposed to the same miseries BY A GOVERNMENT, which we might expect in a country WITHOUT GOVERNMENT, our calamity is heightened by reflecting that we furnish the means by which we suffer."


"From the day on which an accommodation takes place between England and America, on any other terms than as independent States, I shall date the ruin of this country. a politic minister will study to lull us into security by granting us the full extent of our petitions. The warm sunshine of influence would melt down the virtue which the violence of the storm rendered more firm and unyielding. In a state of tranquillity, wealth, and luxury, our descendants would forget the arts of war and the noble activity and zeal which made their ancestors invincible. Every art of corruption would be employed to loosen the bond of union which renders our resistance formidable. When the spirit of liberty, which now animates our hearts and gives success to our arms, is extinct, our numbers will accelerate our ruin and render us easier victims to tyranny. Ye abandoned minions of an infatuated ministry, if peradventure any should yet remain among us, remember that a Warren and Montgomery are numbered among the dead. Contemplate the mangled bodies of your countrymen, and then say, What should be the reward of such sacrifices? Bid us and our posterity bow the knee, supplicate the friendship, and plow, and sow, and reap, to glut the avarice of the men who have let loose on us the dogs of war to riot in our blood and hunt us from the face of the earth? If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquillity of servitude than the animating contest of freedom--go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen!"

Networks Rising?