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Israel And USA: Best Friends?

Granger, I have as far as I can remember refrained from commenting on your articles or comments, but at this point I feel compelled to say something. As an American Christian and conservative and libertarian Republican, I find it odd and sickening and appalling that, at least in my perception, you want the nation or state of Israel to be a model for how this country should be rather than return it to a representative constitutional republic. Of course we can never transform this nation into a freedom utopia, but is the answer to that problem really to try to imitate and laud Israel? Would it not be better to look to our past and see the things that made and still do make this country great rather than model our country on a small subsidized state that is a puppet and puppet master? And as bad as our currency is becoming through the creation of so-called money by the FED and fractional reserve banking, how is the newly restored Promised Land's currency doing?

I truly do not wish to sound harsh or hateful, but I sincerely believe that you have your priorities at least somewhat confused and your understanding of Israel and the Palestinian people is borderline insane. Sure, I'd love to visit Israel and see the holy sites of Islam, Christianity, and Judaism, especially Christianity, but I am not willing or desiring that we should continue to financially and militarily prop up a country that is rumored to have 100-300 nuclear weapons. Much less am I willing to support unconstitutional proxy wars on the behalf of a country in which all its citizens in general must serve in the military. That does not sound like freedom to me or a model I'd like to replicate in this country -- a standing army; is that not something the founders warned us about? When one has a huge military presence, is that not just an invitation for war? Why will Israel not deploy its forces all across the Middle East and south Asia? Because it can count on the McCains and Grahams to ensure the US will do that.

I was raised half Christian and half heathen, but the Christian side is what took hold. I was steeped heavily in Christian Zionism and radical Dispensationalism. I eventually shed both after reading the Bible from cover to cover, and I'm not going to preach a sermon, but I'll lastly say this, that I am convinced by Scripture that Israel as we know it is a farce, something contrived by the power evil, for since its creation in 1948, violence has only increased in the Middle East. The devil came to kill, steal, and destroy, and I will leave it at that.




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Great post.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

"Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle." - Anonymous
http://youtu.be/cjkvC9qr0cc

Feds bought and paid for

The U.S. government and Israel will remain friends as long as the campaign funds keep rolling in and AIPAC, SPLC, and ADL keep up the pressure on the bureaucrats, President, Congress, SCOTUS and the MSM to keep Israel's image unsullied as the hero in the Muddled East and not the protagonist with a nuclear stockpile.

Yup, if all that remains effective, then the feds will continue to be friends with Israel -- unless Mossad's complicity in false flag operations in the U.S. become known. Then no amount of money will reestablish Israel as a friend and she will finally have to make peace with her neighbors.

It only takes one to KEEP AMERICANS FREE. Know your duties & rights as a juror. Stop the unconstitutional conviction of innocents in federal custody. The Fully Informed Jury CALL 1-800-TEL-JURY www.fija.org IMMEDIATELY if not sooner. It's that important.

Israel has no friends

only those that they use to accomplish their agenda.

IzUnReal is a stolen property of the Rothschild crime family

USA is a puppet state opposed to a direct ownership like IzUnReal.

No Rothschild no IzUnReal and no puppet Gov in USA.

They own the money they enslaved everything with false debt claims based upon counterfeit moneis they create out of thin air.

You owe me money(false claim) bam bam knock you out. Everyone says its ok because I said you owe me money.

Claims of false national debts used to justify every type of theft and crime immaginable against humanity including many genocide wars.

IzUnReal is just not real and will go away as soon as the Rothschild crime family goes.

sovereign

With freinds like that

Who needs enemies.

sovereign

With friends like these? why do we insist on inventing enemies?

Surely, if our friends want us to "taste their pain", they are truly frienemies and we can save the expense of random night raids by jsoc.Or we could give up or scale back on the creation and support of "bogey men" else where(anywhere Al Queda pops up). Is Israel our friend because they weren't born on any resources the 1% wants or because they OWN our legislators outright? OOps I just read the post. I agree with you OP. I am not sure what I am responding to.It's 730 am in California .I may still be sour about the dog pee I stepped out of bed into. I may have read Granger and Israel on the same page and started spewing vitriol.Prolly all of the above. Sorry, fellow DPers, I thought a long winded admission could be more entertaining than editing down to an elipses.

Aaron Russo, Nikola Tesla, Ron Paul, I'm jus' sayin'

Civil war in Israel is on the way.

A recent article by my friend Roy Tov, an Israeli dissident who has survived two assassination attempts by the Mossad, details the emergence of anti-Zionist comics within the ultra-Orthodox community.

The alliance between secular and religious Jews upon which the Jewish state was built is now breaking apart violently. Here is an excerpt from the article.

"Ultra-Orthodox Jews have recently been forced to join the Zionist army.+ This violation and their having been left out of Netanyahu's new coalition++ had created a feeling of danger amid them.

The Zionist bears arose from the uneducated masses of Jews in Europe, their indefatigable violence, even against their own,* is a reminder of that. They were never trusted by the studious, and this last year provided plenty of justifications for that."

The article is linked here: http://www.roitov.com/articles/comicsharedim.htm

I find it particularly interesting that the Zionist government is portrayed as a bear. This recalls a 1986 vision of two wars in the Middle East in which the wars were symbolised by two bears. The first war was led by US general Norman "The Bear" Schwarzkopf and the second began with the attack on the WTC on 9/11/2001. (This attack has been attributed by some to the Zionist government in collusion with elements of the US government.) Here is an account of that vision:

http://www.gods-kingdom-ministries.net/teachings/books/the-1...

Characterising the Zionist government as a bear places them as the power that will also bring the war to an end with the destruction of Jerusalem. Isaiah 29 suggests that this will be by a nuclear explosion and the Zionist government forces are pictured, I believe, as the "horde from all nations" which represents the enemies of Mount Zion, the true government of God.

Many have seen this "horde" as an army made up from other countries coming against Jerusalem but I believe the better interpretation is that "the horde" is made up of the millions of Zionist Jews from many nations (including many from the US) that have made aliyah to Palestine during the past one hundred and more years. The ultra-Orthodox Jews prefer to live in Jerusalem so it is possible that the Zionist leaders may make of them a holocaust (a burnt offering) in order to generate anew the sympathy of the world for the Jews using the plans prepared for "the Samson Option".

"Jesus answered them: 'Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin. The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son remains forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.'" (John 8:34-36)

I'll Never Understand AntiZionist Israelis

They take Zionism for granted.
Have they already forgotten the Jews who were stuck in Austria after the Anschluss? Had there been any nation that would accept them, they could have left Austria, when life there became unbearable.
Israel is that nation.
To end Jewish nationalism would be foolish.
EVERY people needs a home.

great artwork on the comix

But the script is pretty weak. Your second link would not open.

I think Israel has an outstanding plan with the IDF, and I wish the USA was more like Israel.. everyone should do two years military/nilita/ defense training. Everyone who is part of a c0ommunity should KNOW how to protect and defend themselves and their property, how to work with others in case of an emergency. I think part of the problem we have here, I've seen it when the 94 quake hit. I had a preminition of the quake so I had prepared, and when it hit, I knew exactly what to do to secure myself and my property, checking water, gas, power lines, and yet, I saw my neighbors completely confused, totally unprepared, afraid, and I thought, "big problem is when people don't KNOW what to do". And most don't in America.. but in Israel they do.

I'm sure the Othodix will fugure something out, after all they have a section of Jerusalem, which has police, and maybe the orthodox, who are attacked frequently, might give other Israelis a break having to police them if they would police themselves?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZEKYFFBY8Y

This might explain some things for you http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/496097/20130801/israel-har...

Try the second link again. It is working for me.

I am not taking sides, just linking to an article that demonstrates what is happening in the heartland of Israel. The Haredi and Hasidim communities number more than 15% of the population now and are the only segment that is growing. The IBT article you linked to supports the conclusion that the tension between the Ultra-Orthodox community and the Zionist government, that is supported in extremis by most Israelis apart from the Ultra-Orthodox, will eventually lead to civil war since both sides are completely intransigent.

The domestic tensions in Israeli society are growing and Netanyahu has been trying to divert attention from the domestic situation by appealing to the inherent and inculcated paranoia of the Israelis. The relaxation of the Syrian situation has caused them to turn their attention to Iran but that path is also being closed to them. They desperately need a war to shore up their support.

It is not so much the Orthodox Jews that are rebelling against the Zionists but the Ultra-Orthodox. The Orthodox Jews serve in the IDF for their three years plus reserves. They comprise the bulk of the Jewish Home, the settlers' party, that won 12 of the seats in the January 2013 Knesset elections. They have allied themselves with the Yesh Atid secular party (19 seats) and the Likud party (3i seats) to form the government along with Tzipi Livni's Hatnuah party (6 seats). For the first time since the founding of the Jewish State no religious party forms part of the governing coalition.

This means that the original alliance on which the Jewish State was founded has broken apart...probably irrevocably. This is setting the scene for the final collapse that was predicted in the 1986 Vision that I linked to. Ever since I read that booklet I have wondered how the denouement would happen, especially since it seemed to include nuclear weapons. One thought I had was that the US would conclude that Israel carried out 9/11 and take action. Now it appears that it will be an internal collapse which actually makes much more sense.

“Every kingdom divided against itself is destroyed, and a divided household falls." (Luke 11:17)

"Jesus answered them: 'Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin. The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son remains forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.'" (John 8:34-36)

I don't see it

What original allience?

Here is an excerpt from an article on the subject.

"(Israel's) definition as a nation-state was cemented by the Law of Return, which awards automatic citizenship to every Jew upon arrival. Despite that, the State is led by secular Jews, who were sanctioned by the Orthodoxy in an unholy deal.

Traditionally, the Jewish Orthodoxy believed that their Godly redemption would arrive in two stages. The early stage is called “Messiah Son of Joseph,” and would include the physical stages of bringing the Jewish people together; this stage is symbolized by a bull. The second stage is the “Messiah Son of David,” when a spiritual Messiah would restore the Kingdom of God. This stage is symbolized by a donkey; Christian readers will immediately recognize Jesus' triumphal entry into Jerusalem riding on a donkey (John 12:12-16).

In the 19th Century, Rabbi Abraham Isaac Kook, was one of the Orthodox Jews who created the basis of cooperation between Zionists and Orthodoxy. He defined what is known as "Hamoro shel Mashiah" ("Messiah's Donkey" in Hebrew). He claimed that the secular Jews (the Zionists) could take the place of “Messiah Son of Joseph” as a collective entity, creating the base that would allow the Orthodox Jews to produce the "Messiah Son of David" in the new and secular state. The political alliance produced a state accepted by most Jews; yet a vast cultural gap still exists between Orthodox and Humanist secular Jews.

Here is the entire article: http://www.roitov.com/articles/orthodoxy.htm

There are other links in the article that will take you to other articles on the same subject, if you are interested. This arrangement has been the norm in Israel from the beginning and is only now coming apart. It is an historically significant moment.

"Jesus answered them: 'Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin. The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son remains forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.'" (John 8:34-36)

Israel is a parasite

of the U.S. Zionsists have co-opted the power structure in this country and use the broken shell of our nation to fight wars against their enemies while spying on us and stealing military secrets. As mentioned in previous comments, Israel is wholly or partially responsible for the Lavon Affair, the U.S.S. Liberty, and 9/11. Because Zionists have huge disproportional power in media, their involvement is covered up and whitewashed. Israel is a terrorist nation whose government lies to, cheats, and steals from the United States and any loyalty that they have to our country is predicated on the contingency that we continue to provide billions of aid every year, as well as armaments and blood. Any sort of partnership with Israel is a detriment to the health of United States of America. They are NOT our friend.

Israel can do no harm

Because Israel has blackmailed and extorted the US CONgress and Israel has armies of cyber soldiers who troll websites to tell you Israel does no harm. Trust them at your own peril. Personally, I don't. Jews are not the problem. The Israeli leaders and those who they employ to defend and apologize for them are the problem. End all USAID to Israel.

Why just Israel?

Not not end USAID to the UN and nations that HATE America?

Yea my friends always try to sink my ships

...with false flag attacks in the Mediterranean to drag us into war with Egypt. USSLiberty.jpg

Release the Sandy Hook video.

Did you know

NSA owned the USS Liberty that was doing the same thing to Israel as they did to wee the American people? Is it wrong for the USA to be spying on everyone but Israel? Or is it wrong that Israel has established it's terms and doesn't hesitate to do what they said they were going to do when it comes to self defense.

the op-ed poster bayou has an issue with my thinking the USA needs to take a few clues and be more like Israel. Israel is not policing the world. Sure, they can invent the tech and produce it, but it's what our government does with it, like the USS Liberty, NSA had no business in that area, and that's why the USA has done NOTHING about it. It's our shame. And it is our shame.

Yeah, we should be more like Israel, everyone know how to defend themselves, their property, know when and how to help neighbors, and serve your country defending it from those who dare to be aggressive. It's not a joke to Israel, they have a red line, and it's a thick one. No one needs to police Israel. Israel is not policing the world. Israel is not occupying the globe with hundreds of military bases.

If that were true we should have shot Jonathan Pollard on

the spot. You engage in apologetics for Israel's mass murder of our sailors. Traitor.

Release the Sandy Hook video.

I don't agree

The case has been investigated and it was closed, and as much as I love America, I question my government, and when it comes to the USS Liberty, my government erroed and so did Israel. Both government got over it, so why don't you?

NSA SPYING on Israel is OK?

I dont agree

NSA SPYING on Israel is OK?

Israel contractors ARE THE NSA!! seriously some of you daily paulers,

anyway israel gets first dibs on the nsa intel dumps on a regular basis

nuff said

"He's this eccentric Ghandi-Like figure that you cant touch with the normal bribes that people respond to."
the man Doug Wead on DR. RON PAUL

You mean

Snowden is an Israeli?

Israel created the tech, Americans aren't even smart enough to use it properly. Nuf said.

After bombing the ship

the Israeli's strafed the survivors in the water for hours and there is no defense for that friend or foe.

A beautiful clear day...our flag was flying high, the Israeli's knew exactly what they were doing...as did LBJ. You are trying to defend the indefensible again Grange....you are a glutton for punishment.

Michael, BigMikeDude, Jon,

Grangspam just posted comment supporting Israel murdering US citizens:

NSA owned the USS Liberty that was doing the same thing to Israel as they did to wee the American people? Is it wrong for the USA to be spying on everyone but Israel? Or is it wrong that Israel has established it's terms and doesn't hesitate to do what they said they were going to do when it comes to self defense.

Please re-ban that POS traitorous troll Grangspam immediately.

PS. Grangspam, you're a worthless POS. DIE, you stupid POS.

I disagree with your request.

If Granger interpreted it like that [link below], so would others. By bringing this to light, clarification can be made, as David Robertson eloquently did.

It is through civil conversation and vetting of information that we get the truth out. Practice this, so that you may go out and about and do the same.

2014 Liberty Candidate Thread: http://www.dailypaul.com/287246/2014-liberty-candidate-thread

2016 Potential Presidential Candidates: http://alturl.com/mt7tq

"What if the American people learn the truth" - Ron Paul

If Grangspam interpreted it like that?

You meant Granspam misinterpreted. Did the US ship attack Israel? No. Did Israel, proven to have known it was a US ship, attack the ship regardless and murder 34 US citizens, seriously injuring more than a 100 others? Yes. Did Grangspam just offer her unwavering Israeli support and say Israel was justified? Yes. Should Grangspam be allowed to continue trolling this site and hating the USA? No.

The USS Liberty was not "owned" by the NSA.

The USS liberty was a SIGINT vessel under the command of the Sixth Fleet commander at the time of the attack. This information is supplied in the documents released by the NSA. The majority of the complement of the USS Liberty were US Navy. There was a small complement of three or four civilian technical personnel.

According to the immediate report the Israeli government claimed that the attack was made in error and they "apologised abjectly". Based upon the information I have read on the attack this was pure hokum and the Israelis knew perfectly well that it was a US Navy intelligence gathering vessel that had been despatched to the area on June 2, 1967 in order to monitor any military activity in the area due to the worsening situation. (This is also mentioned in the documents you linked to.) It is reasonable to assume given their record that they had been informed of the USS Liberty's mission by one of their spies in the US government. It is likely that they wished to prevent any monitoring of their actions that could be used in pursuance of war crimes prosecution.

Here is an excerpt from the immediate report (sic):

"After talking to Mr. McNamara, Captain Thomas called and advised the Director the.t he had confirmed the information 1ll1ready furnished Mr. McNamara and that he had reported a cOIl\Plement of 15 officers and 279 enlisted men, of Which the SIGINT Detaohment was siX officers and 128 enlisted men (the latter figures ware initially reported to Mr. McNPlara as comprising the total complement of the ship by someone in the pentagon).

When Mr. McNamara asked about the ship's function, Captain Thomas replied quoting the unclassified mission statement, nconducting tec}m1cal reltearch operations in support of U.S. Navy electrcmaqnetic cOll\lll\Uliclltions and advanced communications *ysteme to include .atellites." Captain Thomas also reported that the ship had departed Rota, Spain, on 2 June."

"Jesus answered them: 'Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin. The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son remains forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.'" (John 8:34-36)

Who on the DailyPaul

supports or believes anything the NSA puts out besides you, Granger?

If you don't know your rights, you don't have any.

Other than DP'rs, millions

of couch-sitting people that vote us into this mess, it seems.

Granger may be misguided at times, but at others times she is not. Granger brings value to this site, and I enjoy her being here.

2014 Liberty Candidate Thread: http://www.dailypaul.com/287246/2014-liberty-candidate-thread

2016 Potential Presidential Candidates: http://alturl.com/mt7tq

"What if the American people learn the truth" - Ron Paul

I'm sorry you feel that way

about someone who doesn't recognize reality.

No denomiation of religion are "the chosen ones."

If you don't know your rights, you don't have any.