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VA Libertarian Sarvis: 'Ron Paul was basically spoon-fed the GOP misinformation campaign'

Robert Sarvis captured 6.5 percent of the vote in Virginia's gubernatorial election Tuesday. The Libertarian's campaign was derided by some opponents as a dirty trick that doomed Republican Ken Cuccinelli.

Sarvis says that's not true.

"Am I an Obama puppet or am I a GOP puppet? I tend to think neither," he told U.S. News on Wednesday. "The GOP had a concerted effort to misrepresent my policy positions [and] this was one last-ditch effort to do so."


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"If the GOP cannot win an election in which a 3rd party is present, then it should be disbanded immediately."

Is pure idiocy. Look at history, third parties have cause either side at different points to lose elections. Thanks for the lulz.


I voted LP last year. I don't think there's anything evil about a third party. But in certain cases, such as this one, I believe it has the opportunity to be used against a Ron Paul endorsed "Constitutionalist."

Sarvis' motives? You're right, I don't claim to know either. But Ed Crane and the Liberal billionaire knew precisely what they were doing.

I certainly don't trust any polling data. For example from your Fox News article that claimed, "Sarvis drew from independents and moderates, and took at least as many votes from the Democrat as the Republican." Methodology?

Edison Research conducted this exit poll for Fox News and interviewed 2,376 voters as they left randomly selected polling places in Virginia.

2,221,100 people voted. I'm supposed to believe 2,376 random voters are going give some sort of accurate depiction? I don't. There is nothing scientific about these polls. They can go whichever way the wind blows as has been shown time and time again.

I'm sorry, there's just too much that stinks about this story.

Again, we can agree to disagree.

Exit Polls

Exit polls have been determined to be a reliable indicator. They are used to call elections when trends are established. I didnt give you one exit poll - i gave you 4 or 5.

If we accept your position, if the republicans/democrats/media are not going produce reliable polling - then they have no right to whine and complain about who would have voted for whom if the 3rd party was not there.

One thing i do know is that our election system is backwards and corrupted. Most of the free countries in the world have a multi-party election system. Look where the current one has gotten us.



-The first is a Times blog article by Gillespie (paid for by the same people that funded Sarvis, mind you) that links to an ABC article that didn't link the exit poll source. You're left to assume it's contracted out thru Langer Research Associates which doesn't give any sampling data. Either trust them or don't, I guess.

-The WaPo polling says, "This Washington Post/ABT-SRBI poll was conducted by telephone Oct. 24-27, 2013, among a random sample of 1,251 adults in the Commonwealth of Virginia..."

-The NYTimes relies on the aforementioned, Edison Research poll collecting 2,376 voters.

-Fox News relies on aforementioned Edison Research Poll

-I could find zero mention of methodology or sample numbers anywhere on CNN. Though Edison Research lists them as employing their polling services.

-Last link was the CNN article that linked the previous PDF. Again, zero information.

My point here is at least to get you to question the validity of any 'poll' that includes such a tiny margin of the voting population. Especially when they are coming up with such in depth and technical analysis.

So far the very best guess is that they polled 3,627 people.. again out of 2,221,100 people that voted. And then you expect me to believe any technical analysis of such a close race?

I tend not to trust people peddling numbers. Especially when they are this lopsided and coming from people that lie to our faces every second of every day.

And it's not that I'm against a 3rd party. Like I said, I've voted 3rd party. But it can be used in a surreptitious manner by people who have another agenda.

Information / Evidence

If you have any information or evidence to the contrary, feel free to present it. So far, you are telling me to ignore the polling because of your perception of what libertarian voters usually are. I am telling you specific circumstances of this Virginia election of why the people who voted Sarvis were not necessarily Cuccinalli voters. Most were independents and included many liberals. I know two liberals in my office who voted Sarvis because he was talking crony capitalism and special interests - which the democrat candidate was one.


Yes, the evidence is that it's impossible to state your claim that Sarvis took mostly from democrats when the sample is 2 exit polls totaling 0.163% of the voting population.

It doesn't matter that CNN or the NYT said it's right, true or scientific.

Let's be generous and say that the unstated Langer poll included 2K people, what does that bring it to? 0.253% of the voting public.

Then lets be super generous and say CNN which didn't state it's numbers added another 3k. That brings it up to 0.388% of the entire voting population.

So you're going to extrapolate that all the Sarvis voters were really just democrats and independents that wouldn't have voted for Cuccinelli anyway based on far less than one half of one percent of voters because CNN said so? C'mon.

Unless there are more polls out there (I haven't found any), this is highly suspect.

The Libertarian Party is a crock of Sh*T

Worthless, pointless political party that gives us nothing but more socialism

Never been elected to a national office, not even a statewide office...heck even the Reform Party had Ventura.

Mainly won school board, city council positions that don't even allow political party designations.

40 years of nothing

So people who are truly constitution based get suckered into believing in this scam of party so that they can be contained into uselessness, when the real change, power, and protection of our liberties and Constitutional rights are given and taken by the two major political parties, while Libertarian Party members worry about getting ballot access. Ha ha ha ha ha.......too funny what a freaking joke. Even with all the promotion and effort by the GOP establishment to pump up Sarvis in Virginia the Libertarian Party still has no ballot access.

I have been in the third party movement for over 20 years and I have only seen the country crumble and third parties do absolutely nothing or gain traction. The two major parties working under one umbrella love third parties, it removes anyone from within their organizations that have a backbone and fight for change or fight for the Constitution, they want brain dead folowers not thinkers.

The GOP leadership is dying off, keep,your eye on the ball and take the GOP over, it's already happening state by state.


notice state districts with small local races? There are some with only ONE PARTY RUNNING unopposed by the other (DEM-GOP). Why is that? because they work together. "Don't run a candidate here and we will not run one there"

2 party monopoly. the joke is on you. They work to exclude all others.

Label Jars, Not People!

Sarvis Did Not Endorse Black Boxes, Just A Mileage Tax

Ron Paul characterized the position as an invasion of privacy, ergot Sarvis thinking that Paul didn't understand the minutiae of his position (but instead relied on some misinformation).

Of course, the government tracking your mileage -- via black box or otherwise -- can be said to be an invasion of privacy, plus Paul went on to say the taxes generated would no go for roads but to the general fund and that Cuccinnelli had the right idea on taxes: "No new taxes."

"Bipartisan: both parties acting in concert to put both of their hands in your pocket."-Rothbard


Cuccinelli's plan was to not cut any spending on roads and keep paying for the road spending deficit out of the general fund. That makes no sense because people who dont drive should not have to pay for the roads.

The idea of having user-fees on government services IS a libertarian notion. Sarvis said it could be done many ways. Republicans/Ron Paul got caught playing the same dirty politics that the left often does when talking about entitlements....Shame on GOP/Ron Paul

'user fee' black box car tax DESTROYS the environment

If you believe the AGW nonsense (which I do not), but if you DO then you want to tax gasoline not black box mileage.

Gasoline tax encourages people to prefer high MPG cars. That's what you asshats say you want.

If you tax mileage then then the incentive not to drive hummers around is reduced. After all you drive 100 miles in a hummer or 100 miles in a 'smart car' you get taxed the same.

Bullpucky argument.

Non-driversshould not pay?!

The most wear and tear on our roads is due to heavy trucks. Those trucks deliver to most places in the US by using roads that everyone should have to pay for. I thought road taxes were supposed to be used for this. But, just like the federal politicians, they often use money for other things that for which it was supposed to be ear-marked!


The cost of trucks driving on the roads should be paid for by.....TRUCKS!

Pretty simple. Costs associated with a good are reflected in the sales price. User fees are the best way to fund government services


In the end, we that buy food at the grocery or from any other market, are still paying for the cost of the taxes placed on the vehicles that use the road. It does not seem to be a big difference since we all are paying for those taxes, indirectly, anyway. The citizens of the US pay for the taxes imposed on many of the services from which we benefit. We, the people, still pay the tax bill! I don't see much difference on this issue.

User Fees

"I don't see much difference on this issue."

So you dont think government services should be taxed in a way that is transparent and honest? You would rather government services be put into one big pot and nobody knows how much their government service is costing them???? You are really against user fees???

A retired person who sits at home all day long or a subsistence farmer who has no need to travel around the state should have to pay for roads through general taxes. Someone who drives around for leisure should not get a break from having to pay their share of road usage fees.

I grew up in VA

22 years in Yorktown..having a Libertarian get 7% in VA is huge. Pretty sure the freedom lovers can build on this..

I'd vote Democrat before Republican(aka spend like drunkin' sailors) and I seriously doubt I'll ever vote for a democrat. There are exceptions like Rand, Amash, Kucinich..

Government is supposed to protect our freedom, our property, our privacy, not invade it. Ron Paul 2007

If you vote Democrat McAuliffe over Cuccinelli

you would not be a freedom lover, sorry.....

I'd vote republican before dems

Ron Paul did a good convincing libertarians voting rep in va. But he did a little to late.

Despite their win...

Despite their win, Democrats are not claiming they won because of a spoiler. They fear and loathe libertarians more than fundamentalist GOPers.

Cuccinelli would have won easily against McAuliffe if he was a small government conservative instead of a fundamentalist crackpot whose signature campaign plank was making oral sex a felony.

Virginians need to turn out for Republican primaries if they want to put someone electable on the November ballot instead of fundie kooks.

Take back the GOP and Restore America Now.

The Republican party is in

The Republican party is in it's death throes. Over time, it has assisted with gigantic increases in debt, entitlements, regulation and war. It has ignored rights of the unborn while handing our paychecks over to dictators and belittling the second amendment. They have destroyed the 4th amendment.
So anyhow,
Look at the Republican party as if they are the banks in 2008 and all the old money and influence is threatened... of course every string available is being pulled in order to assemble a grand coalition to defeat austerity, or in this case, the Libertarian party. Just like the Republicans hooked up with Dems to open up the dams at the federal reserve, so have they now teamed up with the dems to defeat the constitutional Libertarian Party.
Sarvis is just the latest Sara Palin.
And I, for one, am sick of it!

For the most part

They refuse to consider ending the war on drugs and expungement of the criminal records. they sleep well at night and could care less about the millions with scarlett letter's (felonys)...I think they need to realize that Hitlery will run on an FDR type approach "Vote for me and I will set you free"...FDR did that in regards to prohibition.

they work with the DEM's to exclude 3rd party candidates and many other things:
There are certain districts within the states that have elections WITH ONLY ONE PARTY ON THE BALLOT! in one race, the DEM's agree not to run a candidate in exchange for the same in another district!

Florida has an anti-drone law, written by Libertarian's that was GUTTED BY DEM's and GOP's to be utterly meaningless!

Lately, the DP comments have resembled those found on CNN. DEM's lambaste the GOP and then the liberty loving GOP DPer's do exactly the same to the Libertarians.

Somewhere there is a group of puppetmasters congratulating themselves over a job well done...

Label Jars, Not People!

The mainstream media, The

The mainstream media, The democrat Party, The Republican Party, and the Federal government are all threatened by the rise of the Libertarian Party... That's a tough hill for Sarvis to climb. I think he did quite well.
The funny thing is, as much as they all want to complain about him, they hate to mention him for fear voters will start paying attention to the Libertarian party.


That is not much of a rise.

"Once you become knowledgeable, you have an obligation to do something about it."- Ron Paul

Amnesty for illegal immigrants will ensure that the Dems win

from now on and that libertarian ideas will stay just that, ideas. Ironically the libertarian party is all in favor of bringing this future about.

It's more complicated than that

Although, I absolutely agree, the LP is a hot mess.

The problem with the LP is it thinks democracy is the solution. It is a party participating in the political process after all. By definition they want political power.

There is something tragically ironic about a group calling themselves the 'Libertarian Party' that is seeking Political power.

If the LP can undo power by using power, it will indeed be a miracle. The first time in history power has undone power.

Are there these miracle workers in the LP? These angels that could not only gain political power but having gained it, walk away? Many Gandalfs and Galadriels walking around in the LP?

In all of history only one man, one elf, one hobbit, and one wizard walked way from that power. George Washington, Galadriel, Sam, and Gandalf.

Three of them are fictitious. One is nuanced, at least. Even George was not pure.

The LP is a degenerate thing. Until the LP returns to principles, I see no reason to support it.

Sarvis? FFS!!!

"The GOP had a concerted

"The GOP had a concerted effort to misrepresent my policy positions"

Horsecrap. I read his own words from a puff piece on Reason.com. They were not misrepresentations. There was nothing that screamed 'libertarian'. He's pro tax, pro choice, pro gay marriage, pro Keynesian. That smells democrat progressive top to bottom.

And as has been pointed out, there's little he can do regarding abortion, and gay marriage is an inevitability.

Being pro gay marriage is about as risky as being pro sunrise. "I'm for Sunrise! And let me be clear to the fine people in Virginia: THERE WILL BE SUNRISE IN MY TERM!" Oh yeah, that will get people excited. What courage.

The only thing to recommend him was his lukewarm opposition to the drug war. Which again doesn't differentiate him from many democrats and honestly many TP republicans. Opposing the drug war without actually risking any action isn't that edgy either.

And the Republican was...

A fag hating Nazi! Come on to bann oral sex? I wonder if he was going to regulate that law on straight people. There is no liberty in that hateful Nazi Party. Shame on Ron Paul for endorsing this anti constitution Nazi!!!! The GOP TIME IS COMMING TO AN END, AND THE LIBERTARIAN PARTY IS JUST BEGINING!


Stop believing some party

Stop believing some party will save you. No party will save you.

I despise the GoP. I know what they do. I was a Ron Paul delegate elected to Tampa, but got replaced through GoP corruption. I know what they do.

But dude, the LP would do just the same if they were in power. That's what power is, corruption.

Anyway it's besides the point. Sarvis is not a libertarian. If Sarvis meets the standard of libertarian then every democrat out there meets the standard of libertarian.

Being in the LP doesn't make you a libertarian. Being in the GoP doesn't make you conservative. Being in the DP doesn't make you liberal. We have plenty of evidence of all that.

Being in any party does mean you are probably corrupt, and need to prove to me otherwise.

Your giving the LP way too much credit.

If a politician is corrupt he or she most likely one party system. The honest people run third party for the most part. Thanks for the reply I will remember that since I am a newly elected Libertarian. Believe me I AM NOT loyal to the LP. I am loyal to the Pa Constitution, US Constitution and the people!


You got voted down, I didn't

You got voted down, I didn't vote you down though. In fact I just upvoted you. I wanted to communicate.

I appreciate your passion. I do. I know you must be a good person to put yourself out there.

But parties will co-opt you unless you are prepared. They may do it anyway. The forces they wield are strong. That said, I hope you succeed in your endeavor.
Bits of advice that I can offer you.

1) Don't take the downvotes personally.
2) Study theory, history and economics. You WILL fail as soon as someone puts a sick child in your face and says: WHAT CAN YOU IDEOLOGY DO FOR ME?
3) Study logic. Separated from (2) because logic is immensely more important.
4) Argue like you play sports. This is very hard, but as soon as you understand you lost, admit it. Doubling down fucks up your brain, but also makes you look like an ass.
5) Before you decide to run yourself, be sure that you have argued enough and LOST so that when you run you will not lose. Do not run until your arguments have been tested. They must be tested by you wading into conflict.