12 votes

Was JFK Really Taking on the Fed? Pro and Con.

Perhaps someone can explain this. "Debunkers" say that he was actually retiring silver certificates, but many truth advocates say that he threatened the Fed by allowing the Treasury to print a metal-backed note. I am hoping someone can boil it down so we can see if this was one of the reaons he was murdered. It is a complicated issue and I am having trouble deciding who is right.

Not that it is necessary to show a motive for a conspiracy. Pulling out of Vietnam and detente with Russia would have been enough.

Pro (well-known essay, JFK was challenging the Fed):
http://john-f-kennedy.net/thefederalreserve.htm

'When President John Fitzgerald Kennedy - the author of Profiles in Courage -signed this Order, it returned to the federal government, specifically the Treasury Department, the Constitutional power to create and issue currency -money - without going through the privately owned Federal Reserve Bank. President Kennedy's Executive Order 11110 [the full text is displayed further below] gave the Treasury Department the explicit authority: "to issue silver certificates against any silver bullion, silver, or standard silver dollars in the Treasury." This means that for every ounce of silver in the U.S. Treasury's vault, the government could introduce new money into circulation based on the silver bullion physically held there."

Con (Wiki entry on Executive Order 11110):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_11110

"A 2010 article in Research magazine discussing various controversies surrounding the Federal Reserve stated that "the wildest accusation against the Fed is that it was involved in Kennedy's assassination."[16] Critics of the theory note that Kennedy called for and signed legislation phasing out Silver Certificates in favor of Federal Reserve Notes, thereby enhancing the power of the Federal Reserve; and that Executive Order 11110 was a technicality that only delegated existing presidential powers to the Secretary of the Treasury for administrative convenience during a period of transition."

Thanks!



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ecorob's picture

JFK is dead.

The FED lives on.

I rest my case.

its 'cos I owe ya, my young friend...
Rockin' the FREE world in Tennessee since 1957!
9/11 Truth.

G. Edward Griffin - author of Creature from JekylI Island Says

that the connection between the JFK assassination and the Fed is a myth:

http://www.freedomforceinternational.org/freedomcontent.cfm?...

His arguments make sense to me. I was actually disappointed to hear this since I have several RED SEAL currency notes and used to tell the story to people with them as a conversation piece.

The overwhelming evidence was that JFK was killed because he had opposed the interests of several powerful groups. (I've probably read a dozen books on the subject and numerous articles.) But I no longer believe that these bank notes had anything to do with it. I'm glad I didn't buy too many of those RED SEAL notes. I had was going to give them as gifts with a JFK book several years ago.

.This is convincing. However, JFK was putting a great deal of..

pressure on Israel to open up her Dimona reactor facilities to international inspection. This also interferes with the interest of the Talmudic Jew Bankers. Not to mention, I seriously doubt JFK would have gone forward with the plan implemented by LBJ to debase our coins by removing the silver as this violates the Coinage Act of 1792 and carries the death penalty. I figure, the only reason Johnson got away with it was the country was still paralyzed by the assassination of JFK.

If anyone has more information this, I would welcome it.

Republicae's picture

Oh, you mean you did't read

Oh, you mean you did't read the EO11110 and the legislation signed by JFK on the same day? JFK set the stage for the removal of all silver from circulation, he got the removal of $5 and $10 Silver Certificates in 1961 and then with EO11110, removed $1 and $2 Silver Certificates allowing for the expansion of the Federal Reserve to issue those small denominations as Federal Reserve Notes. Public Law 88-36, signed the same day that EO11110 was issued, repealed the Silver Purchase Act of 1934, also essentially made silver a marketable commodity instead of a monetary metal, demonetizing silver for the first time in our nation's history.

On November 28, 1961, President Kennedy halted sales of silver by the Treasury Department. Increasing demand of silver as an industrial metal had led to an increase in the market price of silver above the United States government's fixed price. This led to a decline in the government's excess silver reserves by over 80% during 1961. President Kennedy also called upon Congress to phase out silver certificates in favor of Federal Reserve notes.

President Kennedy repeated his calls for Congress to act on several occasions, including his 1963 Economic Report, where he wrote:

I again urge a revision in our silver policy to reflect the status of silver as a metal for which there is an expanding industrial demand. Except for its use in coins, silver serves no useful monetary function.

In 1961, at my direction, sales of silver were suspended by the Secretary of the Treasury. As further steps, I recommend repeal of those Acts that oblige the Treasury to support the price of silver; and repeal of the special 50-percent tax on transfers of interest in silver and authorization for the Federal Reserve System to issue notes in denominations of $1, so as to make possible the gradual withdrawal of silver certificates from circulation and the use of the silver thus released for coinage purposes. I urge the Congress to take prompt action on these recommended changes.

Public Law 88-36

The House of Representatives took up the President's request early in 1963, and passed HR 5389 on April 10, 1963, by a vote of 251 to 122. The Senate passed the bill on May 23, by a vote of 68 to 10.

Text of Executive Order

President Kennedy's Executive Order (E.O.) 11110 modified the pre-existing Executive Order 10289 issued by U.S. President Harry S. Truman in 1951, and stated the following:

"The Secretary of the Treasury is hereby designated and empowered to perform the following-described functions of the President without the approval, ratification, or other action of the President..."

The order then lists tasks (a) through (h) which the Secretary may now do without instruction from the President. None of the powers assigned to the Treasury in E.O. 10289 relate to money or to monetary policy. Kennedy's E.O. 11110 then instructs that:

SECTION 1. Executive Order No. 10289 of September 9, 1951, as amended, is hereby further amended (a) By adding at the end of paragraph 1 thereof the following subparagraph (j):

'(j) The authority vested in the President by paragraph (b) of section 43 of the Act of May 12, 1933, as amended (31 U.S.C. 821(b)), to issue silver certificates against any silver bullion, silver, or standard silver dollars in the Treasury not then held for redemption of an outstanding silver certificates, to prescribe the denominations of such silver certificates, and to coin standard silver dollars and subsidiary silver currency for their redemption,' and (b) By revoking subparagraphs (b) and (c) of paragraph 2 thereof.

SECTION 2. The amendments made by this Order shall not affect any act done, or any right accruing or accrued or any suit or proceeding had or commenced in any civil or criminal cause prior to the date of this Order but all such liabilities shall continue and may be enforced as if said amendments had not been made.

John F. Kennedy,
THE WHITE HOUSE,
June 4, 1963.

You seriously doubt it he would have gone forward with the plan by LBJ to debase our coins, why do you doubt it, there must be a reason for such doubt? JFK had already set the stage for such a debasement and ultimate removal from circulation of silver. Read his Economic Reports to Congress!

http://militantjeffersonian.com

"We are not a nation, but a union, a confederacy of equal and sovereign States" John C. Calhoun

No, Republicae, I did not read the EO. If you read my original

comment, I said, "JFK - for reasons listed above". I did not engage in the debate regarding the E.O., because I did not read the E.O. What I later posted was my remarks on the Dimona reactor. However, you just made my case regarding the banking connection to JFK, since I stated that I did not believe JFK would go along with debasing the currency, as LBJ did. If you were not so busy trying to discredit me, you would have noticed that. Thank you very much.

Republicae's picture

I was not trying to discredit

I was not trying to discredit you, any more than you were me however, if you read not only the EO11110 and the law JFK signed the same day you will find that his whole purpose was to remove and demonetize silver as a monetary medium.

http://militantjeffersonian.com

"We are not a nation, but a union, a confederacy of equal and sovereign States" John C. Calhoun

Except in the case of silver coin.

The plan, as was reported in the papers, at the time, was to use silver certificates in one dollar and two dollar denomination in the hopes that this would discourage the conversion of higher denominations into silver certificates. As I said, and the the E.O. provided in your comment proves it, JFK had no intention of removing silver from coins. However, LBJ did just that in 1965, effectively decoupling all US currency being used domestically from gold and silver.

Of course I am not trying to discredit your authoritative responses, as you have been very helpful. However, I AM trying to discredit your characterization of my responses as simplistic and poorly documented. After all, I did admit I did not know whether LBJ's change to the Coinage Act had been originally planned by JFK. I also admit that I frequently use multiple sources that do not always cite their references. However, many do, though I do not always post them. This practice is certainly common in both the mainstream and alternative media and it does not change my contention that that bankers appear at least to have been behind every presidential assassination, both attempted and successful. Certainly, SOMEBODY made sure the president's protectors were somewhere else when the assassination attempt occurred. That is just too many coincidences to NOT believe they were all conspiracies of extremely powerful people. I could be wrong, but I seriously doubt it.

Republicae's picture

Well, according to this, it

Well, according to this, it appears, if my Sentence Construction is correct, the bold section states that the purpose of the law was, indeed, to make it possible for the gradual withdrawal of silver certificates from circulation and the use of silver thus release for coinage purposes.

In 1961, at my direction, sales of silver were suspended by the Secretary of the Treasury. As further steps, I recommend repeal of those Acts that oblige the Treasury to support the price of silver; and repeal of the special 50-percent tax on transfers of interest in silver and authorization for the Federal Reserve System to issue notes in denominations of $1, so as to make possible the gradual withdrawal of silver certificates from circulation and the use of the silver thus released for coinage purposes.

I also find, that JFK had a very close working relationship with the FED, indeed his monetary policies were mirrored by FED actions. I see far more of a connection between the CIA and the possibilities behind his assassination, though I would not rule out the criminal LBJ either.

http://militantjeffersonian.com

"We are not a nation, but a union, a confederacy of equal and sovereign States" John C. Calhoun

I believe your conclusions are correct...

about Silver Certificates, the CIA AND LBJ, TO A POINT.

If you read the quote just before your bold,it says "...issue notes in denominations of $1, which is, pretty much what I said. Whether or not JFK actually planned to eventually eliminate $1 Silver Certificates is anyone's guess.

I am absolutely convinced George Herbert Walker Bush ordered the assassination of JFK, as he was head of the CIA team involved in the Bay of Pigs ("Dark Legacy" makes a "beyond the shadow of a doubt" judgement on that one. E. Howard Hunt, who worked for Bush, even made a deathbed confession, to that effect. "Dark Legacy" also makes a convincing argument that Lee Harvey Oswald was a double agent, working for the FBI. J. Edgar Hoover himself sent an official
letter identifying George Herbert Walker Bush as a "person of interest" in the case. While LBJ MAY have been involved (he certainly had a lot of people killed), Johnson certainly appears to have been deeply involved in the cover up. In fact, "Dark Legacy" provides connections to Prescott Bush (the NAZI banker) and his protege, Richard Nixon. Prescott was certainly an extremely powerful man. Convicted of the "Trading With the Enemy Act," Prescott Bush rose quickly in GOP politics. Within four years of his conviction Prescott became Connecticut GOP Finance Chairman, then, in 1950, a US Senator. So, once again, we have a banker connection, even if it is not the E.O. If you have not seen "Dark Legacy," I highly recommend it (of course, that may not be a big selling point). It is available on Netflix Streaming.

Republicae's picture

The Bush Clan of Corruption

The Bush Clan of Corruption has a long, tainted legacy...I put nothing past them and for that reason I question the events of 9-11, among others.

As I said, JFK expanded the role of the FED, allowing it, for the first time, to issue small denominations in 1963. $1 Silver Certificates, were replaced with Federal Reserve Notes that very year, from that point it was just a matter of actually removing them from circulation, which took a while to do. Once the law was passed, many people held on to them because they knew they were going to be collectable, the Treasury no longer redeemed any Silver Certificates by 1964 and then came the Coinage Act of 1965. I remember when that happened, and started my first coin collection in 90% U.S. Silver.

http://militantjeffersonian.com

"We are not a nation, but a union, a confederacy of equal and sovereign States" John C. Calhoun

Then JFK debased the currency as well.

I never cared much for him, either. However, we do agree, the Bush clan is capable of anything. So, two very likely reasons for JFK's assassination were the removal of silver from coins and George Bush's involvement in the Bay of Pigs, over which JFK had already fired CIA Director Alan Dulles.

BTW, most people do not know a House Subcommittee DID decide JFK was murdered as part of conspiracy but could not conclude exactly who was responsible. http://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/select-committee-report/

BTW, Global Research connected George H. W. Bush to 911 insider trading.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/RUP110A.html

Republicae's picture

Silver Certificates, like

Silver Certificates, like Gold Certificates were not simply Bank Notes, they were Warehouse Receipts for a certain amount of real Constitutional Money, i.e. silver. United States Notes and then Federal Reserve Notes were not, in fact on United States Notes it clearly states that Bonds have been deposited to cover that Note, the very same thing as a Federal Reserve Note. Silver Certificates and Gold Certificates were, besides silver coins, were the last vestiges of what remained of real money in this country and JFK sought to remove silver just like FDR did gold. In a way JFK set the stage for the confiscation of the People's silver just as FDR did with the Peoples gold.

http://militantjeffersonian.com

"We are not a nation, but a union, a confederacy of equal and sovereign States" John C. Calhoun

JFK Angered a Lot of People . . .

but the question posed was if there is evidence that his policies toward the Federal Reserve was part of the reason he was murdered. There is no evidence of this being the case . . . that I have found or that G. Edward Griffin has found. (I spoke with Ed Griffin at an all day conference he gave a few years ago. Several of us sat around a table with Ed and ate lunch together and discussed many topics before Mr Griffin continued with the afternoon lecture.)

ecorob's picture

Evidence is a funny thing.

Sometimes its clearly present and, sometimes, nowhere to be found.

This doesn't prevent the crime.

its 'cos I owe ya, my young friend...
Rockin' the FREE world in Tennessee since 1957!
9/11 Truth.

Republicae's picture

Thus far, I have found that

Thus far, I have found that the "conspiracy theory" that JFK was assassinated because he took actions against the FED does not hold even one drop of water, the "theory" itself is not only full of holes, but is not even logical when viewed next to the evidence to the contrary.

http://militantjeffersonian.com

"We are not a nation, but a union, a confederacy of equal and sovereign States" John C. Calhoun

Famous 'Jefferson Quote'

By the way, many of you know this often repeated 'quote' by Thomas Jefferson. (I even have a coffee cup with it):

"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered."

http://www.monticello.org/site/jefferson/private-banks-quota...

Well Jefferson never said it. The terms 'inflation' and 'deflation' weren't used during his time. He did speak as to the danger of banking interests to the nation, however. - - - We who believe in Liberty have to be very careful that we're accurate in our statements and logical (though passionate) in our arguments.

P.S. -- And don't worry - I'm not going to go tell your young kids there's no Santa next ! I promise.

Republicae's picture

Haha...absolutely correct!

Haha...absolutely correct! It is truly amazing that there are those among us, of all people, who would prefer to believe a theory without doing the most extreme amount of Due Diligence, turn every stone and look under every bush before simply swallowing it as truth. That appears to be the case with this JFK/FED Conspiracy, once you actually look at all the evidence then the conspiracy theory completely and absolutely falls apart. We, as people who espouse the Tenets of Liberty, should take the utmost care and, indeed, accountability for searching out the most accurate information possible on any subject. We may, at times, make mistakes due to partial information, but nonetheless, we should strive to seek out that which is true even if it goes completely against what we might have once thought or believed.

http://militantjeffersonian.com

"We are not a nation, but a union, a confederacy of equal and sovereign States" John C. Calhoun

Bankers have benefited from EVERY presidential assassination,

either attempted or successful.

Andrew Jackson - attempt - Jackson abolished the Bank of the United States

Abraham Lincoln - assassinated - Lincoln issued interest free Greenbacks in defiance of the bankers

James Garfield- assassinated.

President James Abram Garfield, our 20th President, had previously been Chairman of the House Committee on Appropriations and was an expert on fiscal matters. (Upon his election, among other things, he appointed an unpopular collector of customs at New York, whereupon the two Senators from New York--Roscoe Conkling and Thomas Platt--resigned their seats.)
President Garfield openly declared that whoever controls the supply of currency would control the business and activities of all the people. After only four months in office, President Garfield was shot at a railroad station on July 2, 1881. Another coincidence.

http://www.rense.com/general86/pres.htm

William McKinley - assassinated - McKinley's assassination enabled Theodore Roosevelt, had failed in his run for mayor of New York and had never held public office until he was elected governor of New York two years before becoming McKinley's running mate. Roosevelt's treachery in the 1912 presidential election assured that a supporter of the Federal Reserve became President.

Franklin Roosevelt - attempt - Prescott Bush, the NAZI banker was behind this.

Harry Truman - probably because of his second thoughts about recognizing Israel. "In the summer of 1947, pending the independence of Israel, the Zionist Stern Gang was believed to have sent a number of letter bombs addressed to the president and high-ranking staff at the White House. The Secret Service had been alerted by British intelligence after similar letters had been sent to high-ranking British officials and the Gang claimed credit. The mail room of the White House intercepted the letters and the Secret Service defused them. At the time, the incident was not publicized. Truman's daughter Margaret confirmed the incident in her biography of Truman published in 1972. It had earlier been told in a memoir by Ira R.T. Smith, who worked in the mail room.[3]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truman_assassination_attempt

also http://www.texemarrs.com/092011/truman_and_the_jews_article.htm

also H. Truman -"The Jews, I find are very, very selfish" Anti-Semite or just pissed off?

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=196867

John F. Kennedy - assassinated - already discussed

Gerald Ford - two attempts - Ford's assassination would have made Nelson Rockefeller, brother of David (Chase Manhattan Bank) president.

Ronald Reagan - attempt by son of George W. Bush's Texas campaign manager - George is son of NAZI banker Prescott Bush.

Republicae's picture

I would suggest you read much

I would suggest you read much more about Lincoln and his Greenback scheme. First, Lincoln was a known supporter of highly centralized banking, he hated Andrew Jackson for abolishing the Second Bank of the United States. From the time before he was in the Senate, he represented the big Banking interests in Illinois, he continued that in the Senate and even on the campaign trail he clearly stated that he was for, what amounts to, centralized banking. As far as the Greenbacks being interest-free, that's laughable, those that reaped the benefits of the Greenback system were indeed the big banking houses of the Northeast. His Administration created the foundation for what would later become the Federal Reserve System.

Already in 1839 Lincoln is on record as saying in the House:

"We do not pretend, that a National Bank can establish and maintain a sound and uniform state of currency in the country, in spite of the National Government; but we do say, that it has established and maintained such a currency, and can do so again, by the aid of that Government; and we further say, that no duty is more imperative on that Government, than the duty it owes the people, of furnishing them a sound and uniform currency." Can we say 'CENTRAL BANK?

The first issue of Greenbacks was in the amount of $60 Million, within 5 months the Treasury defaulted in January of 1862, all the demand payments. At that point the Treasury made all subsequent issues of greenbacks as "legal-tender" notes which were not redeemable on demand. The debt was just $65 million in 1860, but passed $1 billion in 1863 and had reached $2.7 billion following the war. It was a Congressional report that, in the 1870s, stated that Lincoln would have been better off to have just financed the war instead of creating a massive amount of debt through the Greenback system. It was the beginning of what we now know as the Bond Market, the organization of debt into currency system. Far from being debt-free, it created the most massive debt burden this county had ever seen until our present time.

Of course, as usual, the myths tend to be far more popular than the truth. The problem is that the so-called "interest-free/debt-free Greenbacks" was that they were neither debt-free nor interest-free. The Greenback system was composed of $450 Million in non-interest bearing US Notes, but they were backed by $500 Million Bonds bearing 6% interest ( think of the FED buying our Treasury Bonds, same thing), then there was, get this: $1,000 Million Treasury Notes bearing between 6% and 7.3% interest. By the time that Lincoln, Chase and the entire Radical Republican crowd in Congress were finished, they crafted a plan that would provide what can be considered a permanent national debt system. By the time they were finished thy decided to convert $1000 Million in currency obligations into 40-year gold bonds.

Debt-Free? Interest-Free? Anyone willing to do just the smallest amount of research can find these things out, but no, people seem to prefer the various conspiracies that bear no fact in truth. Now, I believe there are conspiracies, don't get me wrong, but if I find one I want it to be born out by facts or information that can be substantiated enough to draw conclusions from.

I could also go into Garfield too, but I'll save that for another time.

Oh...and I love it when people provide such sites as Rense or Wikipedia as an actual source...please dig into the history of the period, read the various Congressional Reports of the period, read the news papers of the period...you will get much closer to the truth then you will on such "sources".

http://militantjeffersonian.com

"We are not a nation, but a union, a confederacy of equal and sovereign States" John C. Calhoun

Lincoln quotes

“I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. As a result of the war, corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands, and the Republic is destroyed. I feel at this moment more anxiety for the safety of my country than ever before, even in the midst of war.” –
Abraham Lincoln - In a letter written to William Elkin

"The money power preys upon the nation in times of peace and conspires against it in times of adversity. It is more despotic than monarchy, more insolent than autocracy, more selfish than bureaucracy. I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. Corporations have been enthroned, an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until the wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed."

Those that disparage Rense and Wikipedia are usually Talmudic Jews that think nothing about lying or using these very sources when it bolsters their arguments. Why do we believe that "The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion are fake? Because Talmudic Jews told us so.

Here are a couple of quotes from the Talmud.

Libbre David 37

A Jew should and must make a false oath when the Goyim asks if our books contain anything against them.

Tosefta, Tractate Erubin VIII

When a Jew has a Gentile in his clutches, another Jew may go to the same Gentile, lend him money and in turn deceive him, so that the Gentile shall be ruined. For the property of a Gentile, according to our law, belongs to no one, and the first Jew that passes has full right to seize it.

Republicae's picture

BOGUS QUOTES AGAIN! I

BOGUS QUOTES AGAIN! I suggest, as I have before, to stop using highly doubtful sources and go to actual authorities, such as the Illinois Historic Preservation Agency. Or, if you actually take the time to read the writings of Lincoln, you will also not find them in those writings. You will find that both of those quotes you used are, indeed, false, yet since you have not actually done Due Diligence on these and other issues one can expect no less.

By the way, in all the writings of Lincoln, all the letters and even in the William Elkin estate, there has been no such letter found. So, where did the quote come from and for what purpose?

As far as Wikipedia is concerned, you do know just how that is compiled don't you? Anyone can go on Wikipedia, join and then contribute whatever they want to with little editing. Hardly reliable! As far as Rense is concerned, I have found somethings on the site that raise interesting questions, but I have also found numerous errors in history and fact...why should I simply swallow the information on either site as some seem to do?

I happen to be of Irish decent, by the way. I also just happen to cherish the truth over falsehoods and if my conclusions are incorrect I am more than willing, unlike many I have found on the DP, to actually change my view point when provided with actual, verifiable information to the contrary. Thus far, you have not provided such information...only assertions using fake quotes as though such quotes were fact.

Provide us with accurate, verifiable and compelling information, otherwise, your comments are absolutely meaningless.

Here are a few of the books in my own library on Lincoln. I can recommend most of them. I highly recommend however, William H. Herndon's Life of Lincoln...you get a very clear picture about just what type of man Lincoln really was from a man who knew him well.

Uncollected Letters of Abraham Lincoln‎ by Abraham Lincoln, Gilbert Avery Tracy, Francis Henry Allen, 1917

Life and Works of Abraham Lincoln : Letters and telegrams, Gasparin to Meade.‎ by Abraham Lincoln, Marion Mills Miller, Henry Clay Whitney, 1907

Lincoln Addresses and Letters‎ by Abraham Lincoln, Charles Washington Moores, John M. Avent, 1914

Lincoln Letters‎ by Abraham Lincoln, Austin Augustus King, William Keeney Bixby, 1913

Speeches & Letters of Abraham Lincoln, 1809-1865‎ by Abraham Lincoln, 1894

History of the Administration of President Lincoln: Including His Speeches…‎ by Henry Jarvis Raymond, 1864

American Patriots and Statesmen, from Washington to Lincoln: edited by Albert Bushnell Hart, 1916

Works of Abraham Lincoln by Nicolay and Hay

Writings of Abraham Lincoln by Arthor, Brooks, Lapsey, 1923

Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln 1959, Baslor

Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln Supplemental 1848-1865, Baslor

Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln 2nd Supplemental 1848-1865, Baslor

Life and Writings of Abraham Lincoln, Stern

Abraham Lincoln: Speeches and Writings, Kraus

Selected Writings and Speeches of Abraham Lincoln, Williams

http://militantjeffersonian.com

"We are not a nation, but a union, a confederacy of equal and sovereign States" John C. Calhoun

Prove the quotes are bogus; and I have taken time to...

read the writings of Lincoln. Neither of those quotes come from either Rense or Wikipedia.

Also, Lincoln, as a member of Congress, defended secession; he probably changed his mind about the bankers after actually dealing with them. The quotes I used have multiple sources on the web; What would you suggest I use, CBS News?

As far as you being "Irish by descent," I only have your word for that.
Your snotty, condescending response certainly reflect the Jewish Talmud, as do your unsubstantiated accusations. So, I suggest you get over yourself before this gets uglier than it already has. I grew up in a Jewish neighborhood, so I am quite adept at "Jewish street fighting."

You are playing a dangerous game coming on a libertarian website and defending the central bankers.

Republicae's picture

Did you find either quote in

Did you find either quote in any of the writings of Lincoln? The Illinois Historic Preservation Agency states they are false quotes. Even the Abraham Lincoln Association tried to verify the letter to William Elkin, but they could not find nor verify such a letter ever existed. They appear no where in the Library of Congress under Lincoln...so where did they come from....I'm asking you? I know when they appeared, but it wasn't in the 1840s, 50s, or 60s. The first time they appeared was in 1934 with no authority given, no source given.

What are those multiple sources on the web that you site? What is the documentation behind them, where is the proof that they are indeed sourced. Why would you believe it to be true and then, of all things, use it to prove something, when you have not be able to verify it? You should be able to provide very accurate information on the quotes you use, after all you are using them!

My snotty response was in direct response to your own snottiness! It is very obvious that you have never read any of my postings here over the last 6 year on the DP, but again you resort to the simplistic assumptions that are rarely correct.

Please, by all means, point out to me where, in any of my writings, that I have, in a single instance, defended Central Banks of the Un-Constitutional Fiat Monstrosity that empowers them! Why slander, is that the only means of defense you have?

I think if you read my writings you will find that my record speaks very clear on the subject of Central Bankers. I have never defended Central Bankers and have, on more than one occasion called for their arrest, particularly Alan Greenspan and Benanke, as well as the rest of them. Thus, it appears that you are once again not only wrong, but have shown yourself to be a person who would rather make assumptions than find out what the truth actually is on any subject.

By the way, I have been a supporter of Dr. Ron Paul since he ran on the Libertarian Ticket in 1988, I have followed him and his writings since he first began to send out newsletters. I've had the honor and pleasure of meeting and speaking to him on several occasions and he just happens to be a fan of my Blog. I'm sure you can say the same, right?

Here is another FAKE QUOTE that is commonly used by those who would rather believe willy-nilly instead of finding out just what the truth really is:

A letter to Col. Dick Taylor:

"I have long determined to make public the origins of the greenback and tell the world that it is one of Dick Taylor's creations. You had always been friendly to me, and when troublous times fell on us, and my shoulders, though broad and willing, were weak, and myself surrounded by such circumstances and such people that I knew not whom to trust, then I said in my extremity, 'I will send for Col. Taylor; he will know what to do.' I think it was in January 1862, on or about the 16th, that I did so. You came, and I said to you, 'What can we do?' Said you, 'Why, issue Treasury notes bearing no interest, printed on the best banking paper. Issue enough to pay off the Army expenses, and declare it legal tender.' Chase thought it a hazardous thing, but we finally accomplished it, and gave to the people of this Republic the greatest blessing they ever had-their own paper to pay their own debts, and I take great pleasure in making it known. How many times have I laughed at you telling me plainly that I was too lazy to be anything but a lawyer."

http://militantjeffersonian.com

"We are not a nation, but a union, a confederacy of equal and sovereign States" John C. Calhoun

Have You Read Tom DiLorenzo on Lincoln ?

I've read all his books including those on Lincoln and took a Mises Academy course from him on that subject. He is a historian and scholar on Lincoln.

Just to be sure, I specifically asked Prof DiLorenzo about the greenback and banking issue and its role in his assassination. DiLorenzo's answer is that there is no evidence that it had any role. Lincoln was a highly paid lawyer for railroad companies. He had his own private rail car at his disposal. He benefited from cronyism personally, even while president. (Enacted a law which ran a railway over property he owned which raised its value considerably).

There is a Lincoln Myth. All Americans were exposed to it since they were school children. I only mentioned a few facts about him, above. There's a lot more to the story. - - It was quite a 'gut buster' for me when I saw how much b.s. I'd been taught. People should investigate all this for themselves and come to their own conclusions however.

I see you have Jefferson as your avatar. He is my favorite American president. Of course, he was a human being. Like most of us he wasn't perfect. But he was a remarkable person.

Republicae's picture

Yes, I have read DiLorenzo,

Yes, I have read DiLorenzo, but I've also read much older books on the same subject. Lincoln was a Mercantilist, he was heavily in favor of a "national banking system", he opposed the actions of Andrew Jackson against the Second Bank of the United States. He was little more than a Whig!

Oh, Jefferson was definitely not perfect, but his political ideology is as close to the Revolutionary purposes of our government and it's form and function than any other.

http://militantjeffersonian.com

"We are not a nation, but a union, a confederacy of equal and sovereign States" John C. Calhoun

Well, we might as well shock 'em . . .

everything you wrote above is true.

Not only that, Lincoln was a racist. He wasn't really concerned about freeing the slaves, except as a strategic/tactical move. I could go on, but here's an article with Lincoln's own words:

http://archive.lewrockwell.com/dilorenzo/dilorenzo257.html

I mention all this . . .

because our heads have been filled with propaganda since we were youngsters. These myths lead to the notion of 'exceptionalism' and the belief that 'America' can do no wrong. Some remarkable things happened in 1776. The foundation for government By The People was set. Unfortunately, we took a wrong fork in the road and we need to remedy that. Believing in fairy tales and closing our eyes to the truth won't help us in our efforts.

Republicae's picture

Have you read Lincolnology by

Have you read Lincolnology by Lochlainn Seabrook....now that is a very good read on Lincoln :Revealed in his own words".

http://militantjeffersonian.com

"We are not a nation, but a union, a confederacy of equal and sovereign States" John C. Calhoun

Thank you . . I'll check that out & some other sources you

mentioned. If you haven't already done so (and I imagine you have since you read DiLorenzo), check out his book entitled "Hamilton's Curse". Alexander Hamilton wanted to 'bind' the interests of favored businesses and a powerful central government, cronyism like that of England. It can be argued that many of the new nation's problems started with him. We live with the consequences of that today.

Republicae's picture

I've actually read all of

I've actually read all of DiLorenzo's books.

I can also recommend these:

The True Nature and Character of Our Federal Government by Able Parker Upshur
Our Federal Relations by Oran Milo Roberts
The Lost Principle by John Scott
America's Caesar by Greg Loren Durand

http://militantjeffersonian.com

"We are not a nation, but a union, a confederacy of equal and sovereign States" John C. Calhoun