11 votes

Was JFK Really Taking on the Fed? Pro and Con.

Perhaps someone can explain this. "Debunkers" say that he was actually retiring silver certificates, but many truth advocates say that he threatened the Fed by allowing the Treasury to print a metal-backed note. I am hoping someone can boil it down so we can see if this was one of the reaons he was murdered. It is a complicated issue and I am having trouble deciding who is right.

Not that it is necessary to show a motive for a conspiracy. Pulling out of Vietnam and detente with Russia would have been enough.

Pro (well-known essay, JFK was challenging the Fed):
http://john-f-kennedy.net/thefederalreserve.htm

'When President John Fitzgerald Kennedy - the author of Profiles in Courage -signed this Order, it returned to the federal government, specifically the Treasury Department, the Constitutional power to create and issue currency -money - without going through the privately owned Federal Reserve Bank. President Kennedy's Executive Order 11110 [the full text is displayed further below] gave the Treasury Department the explicit authority: "to issue silver certificates against any silver bullion, silver, or standard silver dollars in the Treasury." This means that for every ounce of silver in the U.S. Treasury's vault, the government could introduce new money into circulation based on the silver bullion physically held there."

Con (Wiki entry on Executive Order 11110):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_11110

"A 2010 article in Research magazine discussing various controversies surrounding the Federal Reserve stated that "the wildest accusation against the Fed is that it was involved in Kennedy's assassination."[16] Critics of the theory note that Kennedy called for and signed legislation phasing out Silver Certificates in favor of Federal Reserve Notes, thereby enhancing the power of the Federal Reserve; and that Executive Order 11110 was a technicality that only delegated existing presidential powers to the Secretary of the Treasury for administrative convenience during a period of transition."

Thanks!

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Republicae's picture

YOUR ARGUMENT DOESN'T MAKE

YOUR ARGUMENT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE, ON ANY LEVEL The metal was already available and was easily and readily assessable through the Silver Certificate system, if he wanted to make it available all he had to do was expand the Silver Certificate system, but he didn't, he had already stopped the redemption of $5 and $10 Silver Certificates and then he went on to stop the redemption of $1 Silver Certificates and set the stage for the final removal of silver coins from circulation.

You are simply making assumptions and calling those assumptions facts. You state, without any evidence whatsoever, that "he was retiring the silver notes to make the metal available, perhaps $20 and $100 pieces" Where is your evidence? That is the classic characteristic of a shill, someone who, despite all the evidence to the contrary would rather believe and promote an utter falsehood that has not evidence in history.

SUE, PROVIDE US PROOF INSTEAD OF SIMPLE ASSERTIONS, PROVIDE FACTS INSTEAD OF ASSUMPTIONS! BECAUSE SO FAR THAT IS ALL YOU HAVE WRITTEN, NO REAL LINKS, NO PROOF, ONLY ASSUMPTIONS YOU PAWN OFF AS FACTS! ADDITIONALLY, PROVIDE ME ANY EVIDENCE THAT THERE WAS $4.3 BILLION DOLLARS WORTH OF UNITED STATES NOTES ISSUED AND WHERE IS THE LAW PASSED OR THE EXECUTIVE ORDER AUTHORIZING SUCH AN ISSUE.

I know you don't need to understand all the details because obviously the truth does not matter to you, only the Idolatry of your precious Conspiracy Theory! If you were indeed interested in the truth then you would actually investigate no matter what the outcome of that investigation, but NO, that is of absolutely no interest to you, instead you make it out that assumptions are true, when they are not, nor can you support your assertions by any factual information, only assumption, now that is truly classic of a person who has had the wool pulled over their own intellect and would rather believe something no matter whether it is true or not!

I have given you far more evidence that totally contradicts any evidence that you have been able to provide, you have yet to provide any actual historical evidence in the form of LINKs that substantiate your assertion.

YOU CHOSE TO PROMOTE, INTENTIONALLY, SOMETHING THAT YOU CAN NEITHER SUBSTANTIATE EITHER HISTORICALLY OR LOGICALLY!

http://militantjeffersonian.com

"We are not a nation, but a union, a confederacy of equal and sovereign States" John C. Calhoun

People want certificates that are easily convertible.

Your argument has no logic. If he was retiring silver certificates, it would put all the Govt's silver in the hands of the people. If he was replacing them with unbacked notes, then he was stealing from the people in an inflationary way.

"I don't need to understand all the details." This is obvious to maintain your way of thinking.

"because the opposite of what someone says who argues the way you do must be the truth." This is very illogical, but consistent with your views.

I was taught, growing up in the 1960's that Kennedy was a Lincoln Greenbacker, taking power from away the Fed while simultaneously removing any restraint from government spending and subjecting the people to inflationary forces.

Republicae's picture

You hit the nail right on the

You hit the nail right on the head Tbone, right on the head. Thus far Sue has not given any credible evidence to support her assertions, she has simply used assumptions and tried to pawn them to the people on the DP as facts!

First, they wrongly assume that, according to the conspiracy theory, JFK issued $4.3 Billion in United States Notes, he did not. Only $325 Million United States Notes in only $5 denomination were issued, just as prescribed by the Act of 1878. Then since that part of the theory fell apart, they now shift to say that JFK wanted the people to have physical silver coins and that's why he stopped the redemption of Silver Certificates in $5 and $10 denominations in 1961 and then in 1963 he stopped the redemption of $1 and $2 denominated Silver Certificates. They can't even keep their own conspiracy theory straight because none of it fits into what actually happened. AMAZING!

Kennedy was indeed nothing more than a Lincoln Greenbacker...he sought to remove not only Silver Certificates from redemption and circulation, but as he stated he wanted to remove Silver Coin from circulation as well. Silver Certificates was the easier way that the People had to get their Silver, he took that away from them and sought to give the FED far more expansive powers. In fact, if you read his policies you will quickly find that he was highly supportive of the FED.

http://militantjeffersonian.com

"We are not a nation, but a union, a confederacy of equal and sovereign States" John C. Calhoun

you should learn all the facts before making a logical inference

No need to convert if you are already holding real silver.

JFK said:

"In 1961, at my direction, sales of silver were suspended by the Secretary of the Treasury. As further steps, I recommend repeal of those Acts that oblige the Treasury to support the price of silver; and repeal of the special 50-percent tax on transfers of interest in silver and authorization for the Federal Reserve System to issue notes in denominations of $1, so as to make possible the gradual withdrawal of silver certificates from circulation and the use of the silver thus released for coinage purposes. "

So he was neither releasing silver to the open market (what I assume you mean by "the hands of the people") or replacing it with paper. He was replacing it with silver in coins, i.e. real money. A run of $20 and $100 pieces would have ticked off the Fed to no end. Because the existence of such real money would have made their paper that much more worthless. Get the picture?

Release the Sandy Hook video.

Republicae's picture

BUT THAT'S JUST IT SUE, YOU

BUT THAT'S JUST IT SUE, YOU ARE NOT PROVIDING FACTS, ONLY ASSUMPTIONS YOU PASS OFF AS FACTS. PROVIDE US WITH DETAILED INFORMATION THAT SUPPORTS YOUR ASSERTIONS, THUS FAR YOU HAVE NOT PROVIDED ANY LINKS THAT CAN SUBSTANTIATE YOUR ASSERTIONS.

Sue....Do you know anything at all about English Sentence Construction? Read that paragraph, and use normal English Construction on it.

1. Why did he recommend the repeals of those Acts (do you know what Acts he is referring to?)

2. Repeal of the special 50% tax on transfers of interest in silver (do you know why he asked to repeal that?)

3 Authorize the Federal Reserve System to issue in $1 denominations. (Why would he expand the role of the FED if, as you say, he was seeking to subvert it?)

4. Why did he do all of that? So as to make possible the gradual withdrawal of what? Silver Certificates from circulation "AND" what else was to be removed? The use of silver thus released for coinage purposes!

The important word in that paragraph is the Coordinating Conjunction "AND" which is linking the two clauses to the main purpose or subject. The subject was "So as to make it possible the gradual withdrawal of Silver Certificates from circulation and the use of silver thus release by those silver certificates for coinage purposes.

It is very apparent that few people understand the difference between Silver Certificates and United States Notes, there was a huge difference. Silver Certificates warehouse receipts for certain amounts of silver that was in the Treasury. United States Notes, on the other hand were Bills of Credit, in other words a government liability certificate, or and IOU. JFK sought the removal of all warehouse receipts redeemable in silver and the replacement of all United States Notes with Federal Reserve Notes.

Now, given the history, we find that LBJ continued this process with the passage of the Coinage Act of 1965, in which there are references made to exactly what JFK did that facilitated the new law. That Act essentially tells you the very reason behind JFKs actions.

http://militantjeffersonian.com

"We are not a nation, but a union, a confederacy of equal and sovereign States" John C. Calhoun

For those that may not understand the reason for doing all this.

The market price of silver was $1.29 per oz. If you have $100.00 Silver Certificate you could present it to the Treasury for 100 oz of silver and then go in to the free market and sell it for $1,290. This is what known as a riskless arbitrage. S

By Issuing EO 11110 JFK in effect stole 30% from the public for the benefit of the State.

Just think if the Mob had all their millions in Silver Certificates.....do you think they would have shot him?

So to prevent the riskless arbitrage JFK would only redeem your Silver Certificates in Federal Reserve Notes. Same thing FDR did when he recalled gold and then devalued the dollar by 75%. Called in at it $20 an ounce then established a new exchange rate at $35. This hurt savers, creditors and people on fixed incomes for the benefit of debtors( largest debtor in the history of the world is the USG) land owners( debtors).

State has been devaluing the coin of the Realm, since there was a Realm coin to devalue.

SteveMT's picture

Yes, and he was in a position to win.

That's why they killed him. The same thing happens to any country who tries to do the same thing, like both Libya and Iran. Irwin Schiff and Bernard von NotHaus know all about this tactic as well. They are as good as dead in terms of succeeding in changing our corrupt financial system.

Research "Dark Legacy" & Obama/Clinton/Bush RELATED -

Obama is related to Bush
Hillary Clinton is related to the Bush's. (acknowledged by Jenna Bush)
The Bush's are related to...

Obama-Bush-Clinton by Marriage
Put these facts on a cleverly designed POSTER and Hillary Clinton should be IMPOSSIBLE TO ELECT -- other than through their illegitimate means, of course.

Brad Pitt is related to Bush
Angelina Jolie is related to Clinton and thus, also to Bush
Woody Harrelson's Dad admitted to being invovled in JFK plot
Woody Harrelson's Mother's Maiden name is: Oswald

And if you haven't seen the Dark Legacy documentary which is constantly being removed from YouTube - it's def worth the watch. A piece-by-piece breakdown of Bush's and other major players' roles in the JFK hit.

Wow, what a close knit family.

I am disappointed that since:
1) I am 12th cousin, four times removed to Kaiser Wilhelm II, and
2) I am 16th cousin, eight times removed to Henry VIII, if you believe that he fathered a certain bastard son, and
3) my girlfriend is second cousin to Brittany Spears,

I have been left out of the loop.

I'll PAY YOU to Prove Your Authenticity

Really? You are?

I'll pay you to prove what you just said.

Or you can just say that you don't believe what your eyes are telling you.

You think COINCIDENCE accounts for all these connections at the very TOP of our Government ? Is that your argument ? Maybe coincidence can account for 1 or 2 connections --- but EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THESE CONNECTIONS GETS PLACED IN THE COINCIDENCE BIN ???? WTF ?

Let me quote from one of your HANDLERS --- since it's ABUNDANTLY CLEAR that you're a paid government sell-out:

"Fool me once, shame on you......fool me twice....uh....well....ya know.....fool me twice, you're not gonna fool me again." - G.W. Bush

I'd bet top-dollar that you're BRITISH.
And I wouldn't doubt your relation to Brittany Spears -- I can smell your TRASH from here.

Great question - I read some

Great question - I read some of the comments and wish I was convinced either way so I could put this to rest, but still not convinced.

I understand the theory that Kennedy wanted the dollar issued without silver since its use and price were rising and the govt. was losing money. The argument for the gold standard is that they cannot just print whatever they like. Tying money to gold, silver or a precious metal allows the purchasing power of that money to be elastic and not the "number" of dollars in circulation. So why did Kennedy not allow the free market to dictate how much silver backs the dollar's value? As silver prices rise the amount needed for redemption would be less?

Regarding Kennedy's intentions it appears that the executive order authorized the Secretary of the Treasury to issue Silver Certificates if the occasion should arise, without president's approval. However, it does not say his intentions were not to ever start issuing more US silver certificates. Arguments that Dillion was the treasurer and tied to the banking system are weak. Reading the order it still seems very threatening to the FEDs who charge interest and a great reason for an assassination.

"Arguments that Dillion was the treasurer and tied to the

...banking system are weak."

Exactly so. Kennedy was smart enough to want an insider who could tell him what was really going on next to him. That doesn't mean Dillon was not loyal to his boss, or his agenda. JFK had a way of inspiring loyalty among even strong men. That's what made him so dangerous.

Release the Sandy Hook video.

I believe JFK is also quoted

I believe JFK is also quoted in wanting to disband the CIA.

JFK was a classical 20th century US liberal

This is not a derogatory term. This is simply a way of describing his policies, convictions, and principles. He did not believe in abolishing social welfare, but did not agree with giving free handouts either. He passed tax cuts because they were sensible at that time, as he knew where the debt was at. He was a military veteran of WW2 and learned to understand the horrors of warfare. This is best understood if you listen to some of the conversations he had with Eisenhower and Truman during the Cuban Missile Crisis. Eisenhower suggests to JFK that he invade Cuba immediately, and Kennedy predicts that the Russians would invade west Berlin in retaliation. Within hours after the phone call, the Russians issued this ultimatum. He was not a stupid man, and he was both a pragmatist and an ideologue. For example, in his speech about medicare, he cites Roosevelt, Truman (who didn't even support him in 1960), and Woodrow Wilson as basically irrelevant for the current generation because he "refused to see THIS generation" shrink from its responsibilities. He candidly had no problem stating that the United States was "30 years behind" Europe on socialized medicine, and that any British doctor coming to oppose Medicare should go talk about it in England because their system was entirely different. He studied Jefferson extensively.

While evidence points to JFK approving of an escalation in Vietnam, some common sense would prove otherwise. Not soon after his assassination, there is NO QUESTION that RFK, attorney general, at that time, resigned, to oppose LBJ if he ran in the primaries. He specifically cited 'ROGUE CIA ELEMENTS' as the conspirators who killed his brother.

While there are those who seem to constantly focus on the assassinations themselves, they fail to see the policies of the first, and would be, second Kennedy administration, which would have averted total war in Vietnam and Cambodia. In the very speech RFK gave whereas he was assassinated, not shortly thereafter, he campaigned on CHANGING US FOREIGN POLICY to END THE WAR IN VIETNAM.

It is quite clear that 1. Had JFK not been assassinated, he would have likely dropped LBJ from the ticket, as he did not need him to carry the south 2. REDUCED THE NEED FOR THE FEDERAL RESERVE by issuing silver dollars and averting the war. 3. SET THE REPUBLICAN PARTY AWAY FROM THE PRESIDENCY FOR 16 YEARS if his brother also ran for president.

He had too many enemies and that is it. The national intelligence services killed both of them and performed a coup d'etat in this country.

REMEMBER, war empowers ALL authoritarians around the world when a superpower starts one. As soon as 9/11 happened, every nation on earth took advantage of it for power leverage.

The Kennedys did not need corporate financiers to secure the presidency and that was a MAJOR problem for the military industrial complex.

I conclude, therefore, that JFK would not have abolished the Federal Reserve. He simply would have found quite a bit little use for it.

Republicae's picture

First, where do you find that

First, where do you find that he would have "REDUCED THE NEED FOR THE FEDERAL RESERVE by issuing silver dollars and averting the war."? If it is quite clear then there should be a very compelling piece of evidence that was the case, thus far in all of my research I have found no such evidence, only conjecture based upon the writings of a man by the name of Jim Marrs. His assertions are not backed up by either the words or actions of JFK, nor by the actions of the Treasury in issuing United States Notes, which had been issued since 1863 all the way through 1966.

The fact is that JFK had not only terminated the issue of Silver Certificates in $5 and $10 denominations in 1961, but in 1963 he recommended that all Silver Certificates and silver coins be removed from issue and eventually from circulation. He also recommended that Congress allow the Federal Reserve to expand their issue to include the $1 Bill, something that it was prohibited from doing until that time. Rather than weakening the FED, his actions set into motion the eventual removal of the last vestiges of sound money in this country and the replacement of all United States Notes with Federal Reserve Notes.

What I find strange is how many people swallow this conspiracy theory without ever actually looking deeper into the subject! It's not a hard one to debunk!

http://militantjeffersonian.com

"We are not a nation, but a union, a confederacy of equal and sovereign States" John C. Calhoun

TRUE OR FALSE ?

You agree with the Government's Conspiracy Theories concerning:

JFK,
9/11,
Aurora Colorado,
7/7 London,
Boston Marathon,
Sandy Hook,
LAX

True or False?

If False,
And if you see HOLES in any of these, the Government's Theories -- what are the biggest holes you see in their (the oppressive government that you write about on your website) version of events ?

Are you real?
Are you PAID to be here?

Republicae's picture

Let's see, I do not believe

Let's see, I do not believe that there was a lone gunman in the assassination of JFK, I feel that there was a covert action that possibly involved the CIA with that assassination.

I do not believe the government version of 9-11, there are simply far too many holes and far too many questions that have no real answer within the scenario provided by this government.

I have no opinion of the other conspiracy theories.

Just click on my name and read my postings.

I've been contributing to the DP almost since it began, my postings are numerous and no, I am not paid to be here. I have supported Dr. Ron Paul since he ran for President on the Libertarian Party Ticket and I've met him several times, he also has been a fan of my Blog.

http://militantjeffersonian.com

"We are not a nation, but a union, a confederacy of equal and sovereign States" John C. Calhoun

If it were not for Vietnam, the Cold War,

and the expansion of the military-industrial complex, which JFK was against, there would have been no need for a Federal Reserve to print our way out of that debt, at usurious interest for our own currency to the benefit of the banksters. Perhaps this is the piece we are missing.

Had JFK lived, he wouldn't have busted the Federal Reserve. It would have been irrelevant.

Release the Sandy Hook video.

Republicae's picture

Strange, but it was JFK that

Strange, but it was JFK that essentially began the involvement of the United States in Vietnam, sending more and more "advisors", by the end of 1962, I remember this well, we had 12,000 of these advisors in South Vietnam. Kennedy also sent 300 helicopters with US pilots, it escalated from there.

I remember the day in 1963, watching Walter Cronkite, when Thich Quang Duc, a Buddhist monk, committed suicide by dousing himself with gasoline and lit the fuel, buring to death in protest of the South Vietnamese government.

From that point on, JFK set the stage for America's real involvement in Vietnam. It was at that point in history that Kennedy authorized the CIA to overthrow Diem, the elected leader of South Vietnam. Diem was overthrown and assassinated in November 1963, a few weeks later JFK was assassinated.

Again, if he was against the Military Industrial Complex, he had a funny way of showing it.

http://militantjeffersonian.com

"We are not a nation, but a union, a confederacy of equal and sovereign States" John C. Calhoun

My sentiments exactly

Certainly he wasn't a perfect man, and had his flaws, but he was not corrupted by power and the tapes reveal that much is evident.

What tapes are you referring

What tapes are you referring to?

The last dictation tape

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLE14CC689FDAFA721

The last dictation tape was a home recording released by the Kennedy family. It proves that JFK was not aware that the CIA killed Diem. Henry Cabot Lodge, Jr., by this point, had stopped reporting to the president. Connect the dots. Take care.

Republicae's picture

He may not have been aware of

He may not have been aware of the CIA assassination, but he definitely authorized, though tacit, the overthrow of Ngo Dinh Diem .

http://militantjeffersonian.com

"We are not a nation, but a union, a confederacy of equal and sovereign States" John C. Calhoun

This is up for

Major debate. It seems he considers one of the cabals that State Dept. sent out to have been misinterpreted.

Republicae's picture

Well then, I suppose the John

Well then, I suppose the John F. Kennedy Presidential Library has it incorrect then.

http://militantjeffersonian.com

"We are not a nation, but a union, a confederacy of equal and sovereign States" John C. Calhoun

I haven't been there but if

I haven't been there but if they claim Oswald was the gunman they may be wrong about that too.

Republicae's picture

Point well made.

Point well made.

http://militantjeffersonian.com

"We are not a nation, but a union, a confederacy of equal and sovereign States" John C. Calhoun

JFK was concerned about debt

He did not want the Vietnam War. Central Banks and the banking cartel like to fund wars. I believe JFK was concerned about the national debt and followed his convictions. It certainly did not win him friends in certain powerful circles.

"One resists the invasion of armies; one does not resist the invasion of ideas" Victor Hugo

The Proof....


If President John Kennedy was not taking on the FED, then what the hell was John J. McCloy --the President of The World Bank -- doing on The Warren Commission?

This was supposed to be a Homicide Investigation, and it is staffed by The President of The World Bank, and The CIA Architect (Allen Dulles) that Kennedy had fired!

This was clearly not an Investigation, this was an assembly designed and staffed to protect the perpetrators, and the collaborators.

Kennedy did do a complete end run around the (private) Federal Reserve System by introducing millions of debt-free, "United States Notes", directly from the Treasury (and backed by Silver). This would take away their power (and control) -- and it was a bolder move than anything proposed by Ron Paul.




Republicae's picture

United States Notes had been

United States Notes had been issued directly from the Treasury since 1863, they were issued all the way up to 1966. JFK didn't do anything but recommend the removal of all Silver Certificates and silver coins from circulation. In 1961, the Treasury was ordered to stop the printing and issuing of $5 and $10 Silver Certificates, in 1963, JFK in his message to Congress in his Economic Report of January 1963, recommended that all Silver Certificate issued be terminated and that silver coins be removed from circulation and that the FED be allowed to do what they were prohibited to do before, issue $1 Federal Reserve Notes.

Rather than combatting the FED, JFK enlarged their power and make it possible for the complete removal of all United States Notes from both issue and circulation. He did just the opposite of what this conspiracy theory says he did...which brings up the question, why would a conspiracy theory be concocted in such a way? Why would such a theory be propagated that is not only so off base where the truth is concerned, but that would seek to make a hero out of JFK when he actually assisted the FED in their illicit Un-Constitutional actions?

http://militantjeffersonian.com

"We are not a nation, but a union, a confederacy of equal and sovereign States" John C. Calhoun