34 votes

Snowden-level Breaking News: NSA-DHS has RealTime Voice Print Spy Grid! Seattle City Govt CONFIRMS!

"Everything you're doing, goes to the [DHS] Fusion Center!" - Anthony Gucciardi

Here's Seattle PD's official PR on this Spy Grid, aka. the "The Mesh System": This is what statist commies mean by 'We want free WiFi in our cities, NOW!'

SPD Discusses Privacy Features In Port Security System

http://youtu.be/MIg3We8iXbw
SPD Blotter
Published on Feb 4, 2013

Seattle Police Department Det. Monty Moss discusses privacy features built into city's Port Security/Wireless Mesh Network.

EXCLUSIVE: Snowden Level Documents Reveal Stealth DHS Spy Grid
Government documents obtained by Infowars expose massive DHS domestic spy grid designed to track citizens in real time through mega government databases.


Photos by Malcolm Smith

Anthony Gucciardi & Mikael Thalen
Infowars.com
November 12, 2013

Exclusive documents obtained by Infowars from an insider government source have revealed the true origin and nature of the highly secretive ‘mesh network’ spy grid that has garnered massive media attention due to the fact that the network’s strange downtown Seattle spy boxes can track the last 1,000 GPS locations of cellphone users. But as new documents reveal, the grid is far deeper than the media is telling you. The Seattle DHS spy system ultimately ties in with an enormous stealth database that acts as an intelligence hub for all of your personal data.

On page 55 of the “Port Security Video Surveillance System with Wireless Mesh Network” project document that we have obtained, a diagram reveals the system’s basic communication abilities in regards to the Port of Seattle that the DHS has refused to comment on despite funding with millions in taxpayer dollars:


DHS spy system’s basic communication abilities in regards to the Port of Seattle ‘mesh network’ tracking system.

The Infowars team is closely reviewing the document and will publish it in whole soon. More images seen in the extensive documentation:


A documented image of the actual spy system put in place, highlighted in the original document itself.


A further breakdown of the spy operation.

The wireless mesh network, which allows for private communication between wireless devices including cell phones and laptops, was built by California-based Aruba Networks, a major provider of next-generation mobile network access solutions.

DHS Funds Installation of White Boxes That Can Track Population of Entire City
Federal agency, police refuse to explain mesh network planned for “citywide deployment” in Seattle

Paul Joseph Watson
Infowars.com
November 12, 2013

UPDATE: EXCLUSIVE: Snowden Level Documents Reveal Stealth DHS Spy Grid

Strange new off-white boxes popping up in downtown Seattle use wi-fi networks that can record the last 1,000 locations of a person using their cellphone’s MAC address, but the Department of Homeland Security – which funded the network to the tune of $2.7 million dollars – has refused to address the nightmare privacy implications of a system that could lead to the permanent tracking of an entire city’s population.

A report by The Stranger, a weekly Seattle newspaper, exposes how the boxes, which are attached to utility poles and include vertical antennae, can track cellphones even if they are not connected to the system’s wi-fi network.

Aruba – the company that provided the boxes to the Seattle Police Department – brags in its technical literature about how the boxes can keep track of “rogue” or “unassociated” devices, in other words your cellphone even if you have refused to let the system access your device’s wi-fi component.

You Are a Rogue Device
A New Apparatus Capable of Spying on You Has Been Installed Throughout Downtown Seattle. Very Few Citizens Know What It Is, and Officials Don’t Want to Talk About It.

by Matt Fikse-Verkerk and Brendan Kiley
November 6, 2013


A WIRELESS ACCESS POINT (AP) HIGH ON A POLE What are these things for? SPD “is not comfortable answering policy questions when we do not yet have a policy.” Photos by Malcolm Smith

If you're walking around downtown Seattle, look up: You'll see off-white boxes, each one about a foot tall with vertical antennae, attached to utility poles. If you're walking around downtown while looking at a smartphone, you will probably see at least one—and more likely two or three—Wi-Fi networks named after intersections: "4th&Seneca," "4th&Union," "4th&University," and so on. That is how you can see the Seattle Police Department's new wireless mesh network, bought from a California-based company called Aruba Networks, whose clients include the Department of Defense, school districts in Canada, oil-mining interests in China, and telecommunications companies in Saudi Arabia.

The question is: How well can this mesh network see you?

How accurately can it geo-locate and track the movements of your phone, laptop, or any other wireless device by its MAC address (its "media access control address"—nothing to do with Macintosh—which is analogous to a device's thumbprint)? Can the network send that information to a database, allowing the SPD to reconstruct who was where at any given time, on any given day, without a warrant? Can the network see you now?

RELATED:

The Questions The Stranger Asked SPD That They Declined to Answer

by Matt Fikse-Verkerk and Brendan Kiley
Nov 6, 2013

1. Aruba installations typically include the following software/OS and components. Which of these is the city of Seattle using (or planning to use) in the system?

- AirWave Management Platform (AMP)
- RAPIDS rogue identification
- Visual RF mapping module
- TotalWatch RF spectrum analyzer
- ALE Analytics and Location Engine (API)

2. What are some of the current and potential uses of the mesh network, besides transmitting video from cameras? (I know you've answered this at public meetings, but I wonder if the department has a specific operational protocol.)

3. Does the department use, or plan to use, the capability of the mesh network to geo-locate wireless devices (cell phones, laptops, anything with a MAC address)?

***************************************************************

UPDATE 1:

Seattle police have a wireless network that can track your every move

By David Ham
Posted: 8:09 p.m. Thursday, Nov. 7, 2013


Seattle Police Department announced it bought what's called a "mesh network" photo

SEATTLE — In February, the Seattle Police Department announced it bought what's called a "mesh network," that will be used as a dedicated wireless network for emergency responders. What SPD did not say is that the network is capable of tracking anyone with a device that has a Wi-Fi connection. "They now own a piece of equipment that has tracking capabilities so we think that they should be going to City Council and presenting a protocol for the whole network that says they won't be using it for surveillance purposes," said Jamela Debelak of the American Civil Liberties Union.

A spokesperson for Seattle Police said the network is not being used right now. A draft policy is being reviewed by the city attorney's office and will eventually go before the City Council.

The network includes 160 wireless access points that are mounted on poles across Seattle. Every time a device looks for a Wi-Fi signal and the access point recognizes it, it can store that data. The manufacturer of the network points out in a manual that the mesh network can store IP addresses, device types, applications used by the devices, current location, and historical location. This information can be stored and connected for the last 1,000 times a person is connected with a specific device. The network shows up online in public places usually as intersections in the city such as, "4th&Pike," "4th&University" and "3rd&Union."

New Mesh Network Surveillance Testing in Seattle Ready To Go
BoKnowsEntertainment


http://youtu.be/9fHYIfVqBrk
Published on Nov 12, 2013

"How do you like our spying now?" - New and improved wi-fi spy mesh network devices just for you US Inc. Citizen! Now in Seattle Washington, and coming soon to a place near you - real near.
Excerpts: You Are a Rogue Device
A New Apparatus Capable of Spying on You Has Been Installed Throughout Downtown Seattle. Very Few Citizens Know What It Is, and Officials Don't Want to Talk About It.

Seattle Police detective Monty Moss, one of the leaders of the mesh-network project—one part of a $2.7 million effort, paid for by the Department of Homeland Security—wrote in an e-mail that the department "is not comfortable answering policy questions when we do not yet have a policy."

Detective Moss also added that the mesh network would not be used for "surveillance purposes... without City Council's approval and the appropriate court authorization." Note that he didn't say the mesh network couldn't be used for the surveillance functions we asked about, only that it wouldn't—at least until certain people in power say it can. That's the equivalent of a "trust us" and a handshake.

***************************************************************

UPDATE 2: Actual .PDF document/purchase orders/program draft, via Scrbd.com:

Click here to download the document

“Port Security Video Surveillance System with Wireless Mesh Network” -
Seattle

***************************************************************

UPDATE 3:

Anthony Gucciardi (official contributor to InfoWars.com), to whom the Seattle City govt employee and/or contractor reached out to, in order to leak the said "Mesh Grid" related internal documents, summarizes the situation in an exclusive, special InfoWars Nightly News segment:

Gov. Documents Expose Massive Domestic Spying Operation

http://youtu.be/Ox7Cb--RqqY
TheAlexJonesChannel
Published on Nov 12, 2013

EXCLUSIVE: Snowden Level Documents Reveal Stealth DHS Spy Grid

Exclusive documents obtained by Infowars from an insider government source have revealed the true origin and nature of the highly secretive 'mesh network' spy grid that has garnered massive media attention due to the fact that the network's strange downtown Seattle spy boxes can track the last 1,000 GPS locations of cellphone users. But as new documents reveal, the grid is far deeper than the media is telling you. The Seattle DHS spy system ultimately ties in with an enormous stealth database that acts as an intelligence hub for all of your personal data.

***************************************************************

UPDATE 4: When, sometimes public pressure works; overnight, the Seattle PD declared publicly that they're "temporarily" shutting down the Mesh Grid...for now

Seattle Police Deactivate Wi-Fi Spy Grid After Privacy Outcry
SPD admit mesh network was never turned off after DHS testing phase

Paul Joseph Watson
Infowars.com
November 13, 2013

Following a privacy outcry concerning a wi-fi “mesh network” being installed in Seattle with DHS funding that has the capability of recording the last 1,000 locations of anyone in its vicinity, the Seattle Police Department announced last night that it is temporarily deactivating the network.

As we highlighted yesterday, the $2.7 million dollar system, a series of white wi-fi boxes affixed to utility poles with which authorities had planned to blanket the entire city, can track cellphones even if they are not connected to the network. The system can also collect a mobile user’s IP address, mobile device type, apps used, current location and even historical locations.

Infowars subsequently obtained documents from a government insider that revealed how the mesh network was far more than just a means of tracking people’s locations, it was also linked with DHS fusion centers and collected a “wealth of information” from the cellphones of people in the coverage area.

The Seattle Police Department responded to the controversy by announcing that it will temporarily deactivate the network, which was rushed through the Seattle City Council with virtually no oversight, and allow public scrutiny of the system before proceeding.

“The wireless mesh network will be deactivated until city council approves a draft policy and until there’s an opportunity for vigorous public debate,” SPD spokesperson Sgt. Sean Whitcomb said last night, adding that turning off the system involves, “a little more than just flipping a switch.”

“Our position is that the technology is the technology,” Whitcomb added, “but we want to make sure that we have safeguards and policies in place so people with legitimate privacy concerns aren’t worried about how it’s being used.”

Whitcomb dubiously asserted that the network was “operational without being operated” because police had switched on the network for DHS grant-mandated testing and then forgot to turn it off again.

The Seattle Police Department Disables Its Mesh Network (the New Apparatus Capable of Spying on You)

Posted by Brendan Kiley on Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 7:42 PM


PHOTO: Malcolm Smith

The Seattle Police Department just announced that it has begun the process of deactivating its wireless mesh network, a powerful tool for sending vast amounts of data that also has powerful surveillance potential. In theory, the network (built by a California-based company called Aruba Networks) could track and indefinitely log the movements of any wireless device with a MAC address (phones, laptops, tablets) that moves through its coverage area.

The possibility of a police department creating a historical digital map of the city, or using such a system for real-time locating of individuals, without governmental or civilian oversight has some serious implications.

The mesh network, as The Stranger reported this week, was quietly purchased with grant money from the Department of Homeland Security and whisked through the Seattle City Council without any serious process of review and approval.

***************************************************************

UPDATE 5: Seattle City Govt & PD to its 'peons': PSYCH!

Local Seattle user confirms, the Seattle PD govt terrorists are lying through their teeth; despite announcing that they "temporarily" shut the Mesh Grid down, they NEVER did:

Guess in governmentese-speak, "temporary" actually means 'for the duration of a press conference, or the time it takes to read off a PR propaganda press release.'

Ah... these 'lovable' degenerate fascist govt terrorists bastards; still spying, according to a Seattle-metro Reddit user:

So I went to Downtown Seattle today, November 13, 2013 (self.conspiracy)

submitted 18 hours ago by guitarrr

There were claims that the new Police Department wifi mesh was 'deactivated', but as of today it remains active.

Here are examples taken today: pic of 2nd & Cherry and screenshot of the next street's access point.

Seattle Wi-Fi Spy Network Has NOT Been Deactivated
White boxes still broadcasting signal day after police promised to switch them off

Paul Joseph Watson
Infowars.com
November 14, 2013

Despite claims by the Seattle Police Department that a wi-fi mesh network which had the capability to store an individual’s last 1,000 locations via their cellphone had been deactivated in response to a privacy outcry, the network still appears to be active.

On Tuesday, the SPD announced that Police Chief Jim Pugel had given the order to deactivate the network. However, as of Wednesday afternoon at 4pm, it was still very much active.

A Reddit user posted the image above of the white wi-fi hub located at 2nd & Cherry. While no one expects the SPD to remove all the boxes within 24 hours, authorities did promise to switch off the network.

That clearly hasn’t happened since, as the screenshot below shows, the wi-fi hubs are still broadcasting a signal, giving them the capability to track the location of every cellphone in the vicinity even if it is not connected to the network.

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AJ has some traits of a disinfo agent.

Though I don't think he's actively disinfo, he plays his part. Check out this video of him crashing a protest and calling "disinfo" any who would question his megaphone tactics.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mq-zhbpmOs0#t=4m47s

Just like with Wikileaks, he also insists that Noam Chomsky is a shill for the NWO because Chomsky doesn't talk about 9/11 as an inside job. That makes me question AJ more than anything--between AJ and Chomsky, AJ is seeing more and more cable TV exposure these days, while Chomsky, much as Gore Vidal once opined, will be systematically avoided by the media, only be seen (maybe) on C-Span talking about a new book. What kind of supposed NWO agent can't get even a little TV PR?

A few years ago he had on John Young of Cryptome, and they both agreed that WIkileaks is a CIA plot. At the same time, PrisonPlanet still reports on Wikileaks' findings as if it were legit info (which I think they are). But you can't have it both ways, claiming it's a CIA plot and also using its information to prove your point. There was a guvment document leaked in 2011 talking about how previous efforts to smear wikileaks' image included insisting that it's a CIA front. Does that give you much confidence in AJ, when he's touting this disinformation as well?

It is also something of a joke that he calls everything imaginable a false flag. In many cases he's the boy who cried wolf--and when there is an actual false flag, discussion about it is dulled because of this. Not helpful. Similarly, he's made hundreds of predictions that have not shored up, and his media enterprise never corrects its own previous misinformation.

On the other hand, he's pals with Jesse Ventura and Kevin Booth, and they're both legit, real dudes.

$20 renders this whole system useless:

http://www.spytechs.com/equipment_other/cell-phone-signal-bl...

"We are not human beings having a spiritual experience; we are spiritual beings having a human experience"—Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

nice!

the market to the rescue .o)

Predictions in due Time...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM

"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it's realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy." - Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul

Update 5: when public pressure 'works'...er, or NOT:

UPDATE 5: Seattle City Govt & PD to its 'peons': PSYCH!

Local Seattle user confirms, the Seattle PD govt terrorists are lying through their teeth; despite announcing that they "temporarily" shut the Mesh Grid down, they NEVER did:

Guess in governmentese-speak, "temporary" actually means 'for the duration of a press conference, or the time it takes to read off a PR propaganda press release.'

Ah... these 'lovable' degenerate fascist govt terrorists bastards; still spying, according to a Seattle-metro Reddit user:

So I went to Downtown Seattle today, November 13, 2013 (self.conspiracy)

submitted 18 hours ago by guitarrr

There were claims that the new Police Department wifi mesh was 'deactivated', but as of today it remains active.

Here are examples taken today: pic of 2nd & Cherry and screenshot of the next street's access point.

Seattle Wi-Fi Spy Network Has NOT Been Deactivated
White boxes still broadcasting signal day after police promised to switch them off

Paul Joseph Watson
Infowars.com
November 14, 2013

Despite claims by the Seattle Police Department that a wi-fi mesh network which had the capability to store an individual’s last 1,000 locations via their cellphone had been deactivated in response to a privacy outcry, the network still appears to be active.

On Tuesday, the SPD announced that Police Chief Jim Pugel had given the order to deactivate the network. However, as of Wednesday afternoon at 4pm, it was still very much active.

A Reddit user posted the image above of the white wi-fi hub located at 2nd & Cherry. While no one expects the SPD to remove all the boxes within 24 hours, authorities did promise to switch off the network.

That clearly hasn’t happened since, as the screenshot below shows, the wi-fi hubs are still broadcasting a signal, giving them the capability to track the location of every cellphone in the vicinity even if it is not connected to the network.

Predictions in due Time...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM

"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it's realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy." - Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul

Thirteen years ago

I picked my car up from a auto shop not far from where I lived, and not far down the road the car wasn't acting right. I was closer to home than the shop so I decided to go home call AAA and have them tow it back.. I was coming up to a signal that I could tell from the flashing pedestrian signs that it was about to change, so I made the decision to honk my horn and go through the light.. which I did.. and I saw the flashes of my picture being taken..

And I got a ticket in the mail with pictures of my car.. and I decided to fight that ticket because I had all the paperwork from the shop and AAA to back up my case.

So I go to court and there's a lot of people there and they ask, "is this your car?" and every person said, "No". I was the only person who said "Yes" (I guess everyone was hip to the state owning your car).. When the judge called me, he told me I was dismissed because they could not see my face clearly in the photo.. I figure I've been filmed everystore I walk in.. so

What is Snowden revealing what we don't know? I don't know anyoine who doesn't know, and why I love DP becasue I'm sure someone here will tell me that they didn't know. Please do.

Glad that worked out for you

Glad that worked out for you in the end with the judge dismissing it.

It's not really that we all know/knew that it was going to happen (and did) with the building of the massive surveillance state. It's the ignorant lemmings that consistently dismissed it as "conspiracy" and even after it's been proven they continue their lemming mentality and the "it won't hassle to me" attitude after Snowden started releasing the documents.

Why is it that people have to be slapped in the face even after a warning they would be slapped in the face before they believe it? There are just so many things that the left and the ignorant deny until it happens that constantly frustrate me. I'm sure I'm not alone but ugh I just can't fathom how anyone can be like that all the time.

Homeland security statement: patriotism is now considered terrorism.
I love www.isidewith.com shared it with everyone I know. If anything they realize its not just a red and blue idiot running for reelection.

I don't know cent

What amazed me was how many people asid, "It's not my car" (seriously I thought, "Am I the only person here who drove their own car?") Every single one of them, dozens for the day KNEW they had their photo taken.. so at this point, and I have never heard anyone say that the government is not tracking our every move.. but no one has ever denied that to me personally.. what gets me.. is that we can not use what they tape in our own defense. Maybe it has been done.. but I have never heard of a victim being about to use that evidense.. and to me, it's not the tracking that gets me.. it's that they don't allow folks (to my knowledge) to use their tracking for evidense for yourself.. Sooms to me if God Forbid someone was mugged they could use those pictures..

I just saw one yesterday that I haven't

seen before. It's in Federal Way on the intersection of 348th and Pacific Highway (I-5/WA-18 highway exit/entrance).

I drive by that intersection every single day and didn't see it until this week. It's coming down like the speed camera before it.

If you don't know your rights, you don't have any.

oops, guess I spoke too soon: they're still tracking &

broadcasting: http://www.dailypaul.com/305137#comment-3260573

Predictions in due Time...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM

"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it's realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy." - Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul

"coming down" that they are; when public pressure sometimes work

Well, apparently heavy pressure and leaked documents-revelation pushed over the top by AJ/InfoWars, Anthony Gucciardi/StoryLeak.com as well as Seattle's local indie press like The Stranger and local news KIRO tv alike, worked...for now:

UPDATE 4:

Seattle Police Deactivate Wi-Fi Spy Grid After Privacy Outcry
SPD admit mesh network was never turned off after DHS testing phase

Paul Joseph Watson
Infowars.com
November 13, 2013

Following a privacy outcry concerning a wi-fi “mesh network” being installed in Seattle with DHS funding that has the capability of recording the last 1,000 locations of anyone in its vicinity, the Seattle Police Department announced last night that it is temporarily deactivating the network.

As we highlighted yesterday, the $2.7 million dollar system, a series of white wi-fi boxes affixed to utility poles with which authorities had planned to blanket the entire city, can track cellphones even if they are not connected to the network. The system can also collect a mobile user’s IP address, mobile device type, apps used, current location and even historical locations.

Infowars subsequently obtained documents from a government insider that revealed how the mesh network was far more than just a means of tracking people’s locations, it was also linked with DHS fusion centers and collected a “wealth of information” from the cellphones of people in the coverage area.

The Seattle Police Department responded to the controversy by announcing that it will temporarily deactivate the network, which was rushed through the Seattle City Council with virtually no oversight, and allow public scrutiny of the system before proceeding.

“The wireless mesh network will be deactivated until city council approves a draft policy and until there’s an opportunity for vigorous public debate,” SPD spokesperson Sgt. Sean Whitcomb said last night, adding that turning off the system involves, “a little more than just flipping a switch.”

“Our position is that the technology is the technology,” Whitcomb added, “but we want to make sure that we have safeguards and policies in place so people with legitimate privacy concerns aren’t worried about how it’s being used.”

Whitcomb dubiously asserted that the network was “operational without being operated” because police had switched on the network for DHS grant-mandated testing and then forgot to turn it off again.

The Seattle Police Department Disables Its Mesh Network (the New Apparatus Capable of Spying on You)

Posted by Brendan Kiley on Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 7:42 PM


PHOTO: Malcolm Smith

The Seattle Police Department just announced that it has begun the process of deactivating its wireless mesh network, a powerful tool for sending vast amounts of data that also has powerful surveillance potential. In theory, the network (built by a California-based company called Aruba Networks) could track and indefinitely log the movements of any wireless device with a MAC address (phones, laptops, tablets) that moves through its coverage area.

The possibility of a police department creating a historical digital map of the city, or using such a system for real-time locating of individuals, without governmental or civilian oversight has some serious implications.

The mesh network, as The Stranger reported this week, was quietly purchased with grant money from the Department of Homeland Security and whisked through the Seattle City Council without any serious process of review and approval.

Predictions in due Time...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM

"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it's realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy." - Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul

This is why i left Seattle

This is one of the many reasons I left Seattle. The progressive blood there runs strong and people are not liberty minded whatsoever (generally).

where did you go? how did you

where did you go? how did you do it? how does one line up a job in advance? I'd make that bold move, but job market sucks and I don't want to go waste money trying....but I am sick of Washington State and their failures and their dumbed down people. It's a lost cause. The governments have been infiltrated and they are deceptive and data mine.
I would say I bet there are a lot of emails being sent around that aren't official government emails. These insane children are hate filled and retaliate and then blame them Tea Partiers.

Be Your Own Media!!!

Much of WA is liberty friendlier outside of the I-5 corridor

Unfortunately that narrow strip has most of the population and authoritarian leanings. If you can move far enough from it, and still find your market niche', it's actually pretty nice; grading on a tyranny-curve.

Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them. - Frederick Douglass

AnCapMercenary - Alex Jones Plant ? ? or Worse ?

Hey bud - remember me from our discussion down below that you tried to bury ?

You said you make a lot of posts that get on the front page -- therefore you're legitimate.
I don't think so. That's not even sound logic.

All you do is post INTERVIEWS, many of which are simply ALEX JONES interviews.

You're not legitimate.
You're not part of this Freedom Movement.

You're an agent of disinformation -- and I hope the entire community simply scrolls down to view our discussion and DailyPaulers can DECIDE for themselves.

I like how i said it at the end of the other post:

Honest, Effective Communication is SUCCINCT.
Manipulative, or Poor Communication is Overwhelming & Confusing.

Confusion caused by the use of Logical & Conceptual INTENTIONAL ERRORS.

Why don't you post your OWN UNIQUE PERSPECTIVES ABOUT:

JFK
9/11
Sandy Hook
Boston Marathon

Would you vote for Hillary Clinton or any Establishment Republican ?

so basically, what you're really saying is:

you're too insecure, too lazy, and barely literate.

Got it.

That succinct enough?

****************************************************
****************************************************

So... you cannot tolerate nuance, nor lengthy verbiage, just because you a-priori equate length with bullshiit?

So... unless it fits your 20sec Mtv-brainwashed short attention span, it's not worth it, eh?

Sound logic, most definitely sound logic.

LOL! Hm, wonder why I didn't apply that 'logic,' to you.

Oh right: the difference between you and me?

See, I at least had the courtesy to actually read ALL of your bold font text bullshiit; not that I didn't suspect it wouldn't be BS, based on your two prior reply boxes, but did so anyway.

Ironically, yours is the one that actually pretty much said nothing other than: 'Um, I can't comprehend what you're saying; I don't even want to comprehend what you're saying! So...um: Enemy! Enemy! Enemy! You must be my enemy! Prove to me you're not! USA! USA! USA!'

LOL!

In case it wasn't clear to you before: I kinda would have to actually give a fcuk about you, to give a fcuk about what you 'think,' to want to actually give a fcuk wanting to answer your 'questions.'

So far, your petulance has demonstrated that you're not worth my time, nor respect; chances are you've never left your zipcode, let alone the basement, nor seen the south of a woman's bellybutton, or have a non-avatared real physical biological human friend to speak of.

Seriously, move the fcuk on. Preach your "AJ is an agent! Cooper Rules!"-cultism to someone who actually cares.

Now, kindly move along.

PS. Pardon me, for taking so long to essentially type that I don't give a fcuk what you have to say, nor what you 'think.' LOL.

Klar?

Gut.

Aber, auf wiedersehen.

Predictions in due Time...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM

"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it's realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy." - Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul

You Have Been Identified.

You know what - I'm not even going to bother responding to your 3rd grade level of insult. I'm just going to respond to the heart of what you said...

oh wait -- all you did was attempt to insult me.

I think that answers everything.

And so my point Stands:
Alex Jones IS a Disinformation Agent - and you're attempting to do the same.

But you don't have to...

Look at Edward Snowden.
Look at Bradley Manning.

They worked for the machine -- and they managed to wake up.
It's only a matter of time, anyway.
Look around YouTube --- information is becoming too EASY - secrets are over.

It's a sinking ship that you're on.
But what ? You found a way to make money doing it ?

Fine then. Go on if you have to - but don't play this game against me anymore - let the others like TBone2 or Henry do it.

Port Angeles WA also has this network- says local paper

Discussing news with locals on the watch here, I was reminded of an article that I hadn't followed up on as well as he had. Here's the article that includes this quote: "When completed, it will be one of the only — if not the only — citywide Wi-Fi system anywhere in the U.S. to share infrastructure with a separate, public first-responder network."

I haven't been there much lately and hadn't heard about it from anyone looking into it, until today. This may be already wider than we've heard by this leak.

http://www.peninsuladailynews.com/article/20120906/news/3090...

This grizzly is in my backyard. Yikes!

Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them. - Frederick Douglass

update 3

UPDATE 3:

Anthony Gucciardi (official contributor to InfoWars.com), to whom the Seattle City govt employee and/or contractor reached out to, in order to leak the said "Mesh Grid" related internal documents, summarizes the situation in an exclusive, special InfoWars Nightly News segment:

Gov. Documents Expose Massive Domestic Spying Operation

http://youtu.be/Ox7Cb--RqqY
TheAlexJonesChannel
Published on Nov 12, 2013

EXCLUSIVE: Snowden Level Documents Reveal Stealth DHS Spy Grid

Exclusive documents obtained by Infowars from an insider government source have revealed the true origin and nature of the highly secretive 'mesh network' spy grid that has garnered massive media attention due to the fact that the network's strange downtown Seattle spy boxes can track the last 1,000 GPS locations of cellphone users. But as new documents reveal, the grid is far deeper than the media is telling you. The Seattle DHS spy system ultimately ties in with an enormous stealth database that acts as an intelligence hub for all of your personal data.

Predictions in due Time...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM

"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it's realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy." - Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul

Building block to total

Building block to total surveilance, inconspicous at first, to accustom the people and build the foundations, and in a few years, make claims there are to many criminals aware of the "weakness" caused by "pleasing" the privacy advocates, next thing you know, you WILL have night vision, and you WILL not block sensitive areas.......that is the god damn thing about surveilance, it is'nt effective unless they plan to expand and modify it to suit the "need", when "criminals" subvert it using these "weakneses's", these folks will constantly push for more surveilance, just one more time, and thats it pinky swear.......i am starting to wonder whether they know, or are oblivious to the fact that what they are after is TOTAL surveilance, because the result they WANT or SUPPOSEDLY want will not be achieved without it, and when we have a situation where we now have total surveilance we then have to "happily" worry about someone somewhere at some point abusing this god forsaken tool for TOTAL CONTROL.......we dont have to wait for that, we all see glimpsy's of that RIGHT NOW, the "control", but at least, right now, they dont have absolute surveilance, but for government, i dont think that is by choice.........fuck all fucking forms of peeping fucking tom sur-vei-lance.....E-SPECIALLY their fucking audacity to do this WITHOUT FUC-KING CONSENT

Pardon my freaking french, i only use it when i feel strongly towards something, and it kinda snuck up on me in the end there, re thinking the thought i just writ down, i.e. this is not an opinion that is gonna go away any time soon, not by a looooooooooong shot, and i know that is what some people want seing as no one in great numbers has got behind them with their pom poms out spelling "n.s.a your number one", i.e no major support.....if you think about it, you've had one or two here and there......but like the voters who vote for dumb asses they dont know, it seems their caring and ignorance works against their cause too....maybe their worried their most stringest supporters will even think twice about supporting something thats meant to be used against them

To Catch a Wild Pig - A Parable

http://www.fastcompany.com/1055574/catch-wild-pig-parable-ab...

"'Do you know how to catch wild pigs?' The professor thought it was a joke and asked for the punch line. The young man said this was no joke. 'You catch wild pigs by finding a suitable place in the woods and putting corn on the ground. The pigs find it and begin to come every day to eat the free corn. When they are used to coming every day, you put a fence down one side of the place where they are used to coming. When they get used to the fence, they begin to eat the corn again and you put up another side of the fence. They get used to that and start to eat again.

You continue until you have all four sides of the fence up with a gate in the last side. The pigs, who are used to the free corn, start to come through the gate to eat; you slam the gate on them and catch the whole herd. Suddenly the wild pigs have lost their freedom. They run around and around inside the fence, but they are caught.

Soon they go back to eating the free corn. They are so used to it that they have forgotten how to forage in the woods for themselves, so they accept their captivity.

The young man then told the professor that is exactly what he sees happening to America. The government keeps pushing us toward socialism and keeps spreading the free corn out in the form of programs such as supplemental income, tax credit for unearned income, tobacco subsidies, dairy subsidies, payments not to plant crops (CRP), welfare, medicine, drugs, etc. While we continually lose our freedoms -- just a little at a time. "

Don't feed the pandas. Ever.

We are all the "pigs", with

We are all the "pigs", with some of us having ambitions of becoming a "farmer"

Good parable

Alex Jones - Disinformation Agent

Research Alex Jones.

He is possibly part of the FBI "Division 5" Payroll

A Radio Host DIED after predicting 9/11 BEFORE Alex Jones.
Alex Jones then LIED about that Radio Host, and Lied about being the FIRST to discover the Bin Laden Patsy connection:


http://youtu.be/bO8869tVVP8

Don't support Fear Mongers -- even if the information they present is partially true.

Alex Jones hasn't uncovered ANYTHING that other well-informed YouTubers/Citizens haven't discovered. And they aren't spreading FEAR along with the information they present.

From a YouTuber: He [Alex Jones] only tells a little bit of the truth -- so you will accept the rest of the lies.

right, 'cause the guy who said JFK's driver killed him,

and saw UFO's wasn't??

though, truthfully, I don't think Cooper was an agent. But as for AJ? the proof's in the pudding: 18yrs of independent anti-NWO research, while waking up millions worldwide? If you can do it better, do so: I may even financially contribute to your cause along the way.

there seems to be really only two factions in the 'alternative research community' when it comes to this stuff and especially the 'anti-Alex Jones' crowd: those who are rabidly anti-zionist, vs. 'if you aren't rabidly zionist enough, then you must be a pro-Zionist, pro-NWO shill! shill! shill! I tell you!'

besides, doesn't make an actual PDF of internal Seattle City govt documents, any less true, just because "OMG! OMG! it's from InfoWars!"

but also: it doesn't necessarily makes you or others, "trolls" or "shills" or "disinfo agents," just because I disagree with your assessment: that, would be overly childishly simplistic.

if you're still having problems discerning info and substance vs. style, and clearly don't respect your audience enough to think that they will be able to discern the difference on their own?

well... can't help you there.

Besides, I ACTUALLY have most of Bill Cooper's H.O.T.T. archives and his books.

I just know to WHERE and WHEN to place him, among the researchers: http://www.dailypaul.com/285371#comment-3075090

Frankly, I only see this attitude from Cooper's supporters. I rarely find the same among Alex's supporters, who by the way, overlap, a lot.

Besides, I personally came upon both AJ and Cooper and their info after I've long researched and confirmed this stuff, independently, all on my own: it's all info to me, nothing more, nothing less.

Make of it what you will; in the end, it matters not to me, either way, as I'm not wearing team colors or keeping scores for anyone but 'Team Free Humanity,' vs. generationally degenerate scumfcukers who want to destroy it all.

Predictions in due Time...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM

"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it's realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy." - Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul

Dr. Disinfo - Your Skills are WEAK.

Your first sentence is a contradiction to your second sentence:

"And you think cooper WASN'T an agent? Well, i don't think he was." Yeah you have to add that 2nd part because your first sentence implies that you know Alex Jones is an agent. Almost let that slip....

Anyway...

Let's look at some FACTS:

Alex Jones spreads some facts, some falsehoods, & a lot of FEAR.
Alex Jones LIED about being the FIRST to mention the 9/11, Patsy Bin Laden connection.

Bill Cooper was the real FIRST BROADCASTER to warn of a False-Flag-style event using Patsy Bin Laden.
Bill Cooper was interviewed on Alex Jones' show.
Bill Cooper claimed Alex Jones LIED about his demeanor during that interview.

9/11 took place as Bill Cooper first warned.
Less than 2 months after 9/11, Bill Cooper was killed in his home by the "Apache County Sheriff's Dept", while the local authorities were left in the dark.

Alex Jones stands on street corners screaming, shouting, and causing a distraction.
Bill Cooper filed suit against the IRS - charging that they had no authority in Arizona, where he lived. He demanded to know where they derive their legal authority from --- none was ever given.

Research easily shows who the Genuine Patriot is, and who the Government Troll is.

A YouTube Comment sums Alex Jones up pretty succinctly: "He tells you some facts, so you'll swallow the rest of the lies."

And YOU are an obvious PLANT. The only question is: Should the DailyPaul allow Agents of Deception to continually attempt to corrupt the dialogue ? ?

yes, I'm obviously, a "plant"

just watch: water it, and it grows xD

And, it just happens that I'm one of the most prolific DailyPaul frontpage featured members, here. And, been that way for a long ass time, too.

Having stated such, all this time, I've never 'heard' of, nor 'seen' you, until now.

Seeing as how YOU are the one who is 'new' here, perhaps you shouldn't hang around a site where "plants" are featured so regularly on its front pages.

Your lack of discernment skills leaves a lot to be desired. Apparently, you have very little understanding of conversational flow and like to exercise omissions:

"And you think cooper WASN'T an agent? Well, i don't think he was." Yeah you have to add that 2nd part because your first sentence implies that you know Alex Jones is an agent. Almost let that slip....

Because what I actually said was (contrary to your "quotes," which would actually denote that someone actually said that exactly as the text between those quote-marks would indicate, which you're simply lying about, now; apparently you don't even read what you're responding to):

right, 'cause the guy who said JFK's driver killed him, and saw UFO's wasn't??

though, truthfully, I don't think Cooper was an agent.

First part was simply me sarcastically mocking the ridiculousness of your 'logic' and assertions.

Because obviously, JFK wasn't shot with a .45ACP out of the Secret Service driver's gun, as the damage to his skull wasn't consistent with one. Nor was there any images nor witness testimony that ever claimed that the driver turned around to shoot JFK.

Well, as for the "UFO's"? While all that means is that it's "unidentified flying object" and they may as well be, but no one can prove whether it is from outer space or govt projects.

But when Cooper refers to it, he clearly meant aliens/off-worlders.

That said, none of those assertions prove or disprove that Cooper was or wasn't an "agent."

In fact, it'd be a moronic logical leap to assume that he was or wasn't, based on that.

Plus, I merely stated an assessment of it: because I actually have his works in my personal possession and listened, read and watched it, I believe Cooper was sincere in his assertions. But, I disagree with his conclusions; as stated before that doesn't make him an "agent," nor does the fact that just because I personally disagree with someone, like you, does that make the subject of disagreement a "plant," an "agent," a "shill" etc.

That, is truly an imbecilic, childish logic fit for a 5yr old, or a neoCon.

Which, is why I stated:

though, truthfully, I don't think Cooper was an agent.

So, how any rational person can actually assume me stating the above, after the first sarcastic/mockery opener, would be akin to:

Yeah you have to add that 2nd part because your first sentence implies that you know Alex Jones is an agent. Almost let that slip....

is f'ng ridiculously hilarious!!!

Oh you got me! I "almost let that slip" OMG! OMG! Yeah, that was such a state secret I let slip, eh Sam?

LOL!!!

And, by the way, I still don't think you're a "plant," a "troll," or a "shill."

Though well-meaning, just misguided... perhaps.

Or, you could be just another in a long line of "anti-NWO Johnny Come Latelys," who've been conned for so long, but once 'awakened,' still can't tell apart style vs. substance.

That's okay, this will be my last reply to you on the matter: I frankly don't give a shiit who's Team shirt you wear.

Believe this is the first time we've ever replied to each other.

But, considering: this would probably be the last.

Enjoy yourself.

Predictions in due Time...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM

"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it's realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy." - Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul

Many Words, Few Relevant Ideas...

I don't know how you sleep at night - but:

How long you've been here
The number of posts you've made
Your theory about JFK
Your theory about UFOs....

NONE OF THAT -- has ANYTHING to do with my very substantive posts about Alex Jones as compared to Bill Cooper. (Scroll up)

Look how many words you use -- and look how little information you convey. That's why you have so many posts.

I hope the legitimate readers here will go back and read this guys' comments.

This is how manipulation works:

1) Pretend the majority of people are on YOUR side
2) Reduce the other side to a LABEL, by individual or group - doesn't matter -- both are equally dehumanizing.
3) Use A LOT OF WORDS -- mix in some truth -- overwhelm people with data (in your case: words) until their attention spans

Effective communication is about being SUCCINCT, ADDING clarity.
Manipulation is about REMOVING CLARITY.

This discussion was about Alex Jones vs Bill Cooper -- you tried to lead it elsewhere.
Watch the video I posted.
Research Alex Jones.

This guy didn't refute anything i posted about Alex Jones or Bill Cooper -- reread my posts DailyPaulers :)

How about a third party to intervene then?

I tend to like what AnCap has to post considering his thorough, yet obviously borrowed (still giving credit), material.

However, I've been told by "many" in the Liberty Movement to "listen to all sides of the argument."

What exactly do you have on AnCap that makes you believe he is a "disinformation/misinformation agent," Samuel?

Again, you made the claim that he is an "agent," so I need you to show me (and the rest of the DP) what you have on this guy.

Please refrain from using excuses of any kind. I want evidence of your claim. I've seen many people accuse Alex Jones of being a Stratfor Agent or a rip-off artist of Bill Cooper.

I ask all of those people and yourself to please provide me with some kind of physical evidence/proof. Don't just say, "Open your mind, man," or "Just search online."

Again, I'm all ears to what you have to say.

If you don't know your rights, you don't have any.

I Assert AnCapMercenary: TROLLING @ Best; DISINFO @ Worst

And I give him a FULL DRESSING DOWN on this other page which was coincidentally started shortly after this spat.

A trial by forum - I present my case against AnCapMercenary:

Here it is:

http://www.dailypaul.com/305219/trial-by-forum-jury#comment-...

hey, I'm my own "agent"! gosh darn tootin' dang it! .o)

yes, y'all got me: I'm a NERD-agent... for my freedom, geopolitical and gun loving, Otaku-ness arse; 'exposed' at last...

revealed, I tell you! revealed! xD

Predictions in due Time...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM

"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it's realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy." - Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul

Liberty4Me's picture

So, how do we flood this system with bogus data?

Make the system think you're always in multiple places at once.