11 votes

Earth Poles shifted? I agree w/MSDNC's Larry O'Donnell? Yes, Hollywood SHOULD praise Ron Paul endorsing an End to Death Penalty!

Though, to be clear, until Nuremberg 2.0 runs its full course, in the interim till a full phase out of the currently fraudulent judicial system, if I had my druthers, I'd fully reinstate the original punishment for the violation of the Coinage Act of 1792, to be SOLELY applied to former and present govt actors...

Lawrence O'Donnell Calls On Hollywood Liberal Organization To Honor Ron Paul!

http://youtu.be/gTSkEdXDOzY
MOXNEWSd0tC0M
Published on Nov 14, 2013
November 13, 2013 MSNBC News
http://MOXNews.com

The video segment was about this group: CCATDP, the Concerned Conservatives About The Death Penalty

About CCATDP: http://conservativesconcerned.org/who-we-are/

The conservative case against the death penalty
Conservatives and libertarians are rethinking their support of the death penalty.

Danny Huizinga
Monday, November 11, 2013


Photo: Flickr / Clyde Robinson

WASHINGTON, Nov. 10, 2013 — Historically, the “tough on crime” stance of Republicans and conservatives led to widespread support of the death penalty. But a new coalition aims to give a voice to those conservatives who feel otherwise.

Conservatives Concerned about the Death Penalty (CCATDP) debuted at CPAC in Maryland this year and has since gained considerable publicity. “It’s important to remember that we can be tough on crime, but we have to be smart on crime too,” says Marc Hyden, National Advocacy Coordinator for CCATDP.

Looking at Gallup’s “important issues” to voters in the 2012 election, the death penalty wasn’t even on the list. Yet the American public is slowly turning away from an expensive, morally questionable policy, and this trend is not lost on conservatives.

***************************************************************

Previous Thread: Ron Paul Comes Out Against Capital Punishment

++ LOL: I knew one of you here would've already posted it; y'all don't disappoint! ,0)

Ron Paul Endorses Anti-Death Penalty Group

I believe that support for the death penalty is inconsistent with libertarianism and traditional conservatism. So I am pleased with Conservatives Concerned about the Death Penalty’s efforts to form a coalition of libertarians and conservatives to work to end capital punishment. - Ron Paul

Zenon Evans
Aug. 7, 2013 5:20 pm


Credit: Gage Skidmore / Foter / CC BY-SA

Ron Paul may technically be retired, but he remains as active and vocal as ever. The former 12-term Republican congressman is speaking out about the death penalty.

Today, the doctor formally endorsed Conservatives Concerned About the Death Penalty (CCATDP). The former presidential candidate had this to say about the organization:

I believe that support for the death penalty is inconsistent with libertarianism and traditional conservatism. So I am pleased with Conservatives Concerned about the Death Penalty’s efforts to form a coalition of libertarians and conservatives to work to end capital punishment.

I spoke to Marc Hyden, CCATDP's National Advocacy Coordinator, who described Paul as a “significant political and thought leader” and explained that the organization is “ecstatic” to receive the doctor's endorsement.

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I agree with Larry O'Donnell and Ron Paul 100% on this issue!

The US death penalty used to be the ONE thing I was very sorry to see going on in what used to be my favorite country no. 1 in this world. That is, "used to be" - as over the past few years there has, of course, been so many other things added to the list. The NSA scandal being just ONE of several!

For starters, the death penalty is in STRONG contradiction to the concept of freedom and liberty! Continuing on, only God himself who created life in the first place, has the right to take it away!

Every time I see some reporting on the news from the US, where some poor person is about to have his or her life taken away by the authorities, it makes me sick to both my hearth and stomach! It does not matter WHAT this poor person has done to have this happening to him or her! And frankly, I have absolutely no belief in the argument that this somehow should be "preventive"? Sorry, this argument is a sad joke.

The US death penalty is today just another BLACK Spot on the reputation of the US around the world. Not even Russia, a country so many of you in the US often refer to as such a bad place, has the death penalty! Which coming to think of it, - might be one reason why sadly I find myself more comfortable traveling to Russia these days then going to the US.

infiltrate, teach non agression principals and the consistent

ends that those principals lead to. Change minds

PEACE n LUV WINS!!!!

I Disagree AND agree on this

1. The Death Penalty is over used and has killed innocent men.
2. The State should not* take your life.
3 HOWEVER, I do believe that Traitors should be hanged.

"First rule of Government Spending: Why build one when you can have 2 at twice the price?"
-S.R. Hadden

Unfortunately more people will die

We have seen what happens when there is no death penalty.

With the threat of capital punishment gone, more people are murdered, kidnapped and raped.

So to save the murderer, innocents will be sacrificed.

Also, the claim that the death penalty is racist is false.

This is ridiculous... Show me

This is ridiculous... Show me a statistic that backs this claim because I can provide tons of stats that say otherwise..

There is absolutely NO REASON to murder people, not one. Self-defense? Yes, but that is a completely different case. We're talking about your life physically being at stake at that very moment. But, for anyone to say they can kill a person for past crimes is just barbaric...

It hurts the victims family, the prisoners family and the executioners family. It's a never ending cycle of death and hatred. End it now.

Question:

Say we have an unstable serial killer who has committed dozens of murders, should we:

a) kill him
b) let him go free to return to society
c) give him free room and board for a time/the rest of his life
d) other (explain)

Andrew Napolitano for President 2016!
http://andrewnapolitano.com/index

"Patriotism should come from loving thy neighbor, not from worshiping Graven images." - ironman77

Backwards

I think some libertarians led Ron Paul to change his mind, pointing out the untrustworthiness of Govt. issue to him. But that was decades ago.

What do you think? http://consequeries.com/

Ron Paul On The Racism Of The Death Penalty

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5nKroaDfxo

"Air is the very substance of our freedom, the substance of superhuman joy....aerial joy is freedom."--Gaston Bachelard--

IMHO that was his BEST interview, EVER! Thanx for the reminder.)

For those here, who may have not seen it, here's the full interview:

Ron Paul extended interview - Concord Monitor 8/18/11

http://youtu.be/o0mGDcybDL4
Fermion5
Uploaded on Aug 19, 2011

Ron Paul sits down for an hour long interview with the Concord Monitor editorial board in New Hampshire on August 18th, 2011. The interviewers have a mostly liberal ideology.

Source: http://www.concordmonitor.com/article/274487/paul-limit-mili...

Predictions in due Time...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM

"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it's realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy." - Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul

This is the one issue I disagree with Ron Paul about

I believe the fear of God needs to go back into everyone. Fear of death is among this.

Is the system currently unfair? yes it is, it is run by the unjust. I'm not saying those without God have no sense of morals, but the idea is that your sense of morals are replaced with a sense of duty when you have a healthy fear of God, and the system wouldn't be unfair if it was run by these types of people.

The death penalty should work like guns do, guns ARE there for protection but they really shouldn't be used very often, they are a deterrence, which is really the purpose of the death penalty as well.

Plus it should always be kept in consideration for those blatantly treasonous members of government.

Searching for "the begining of wisdom", not found here

"A healthy fear of God", ought to be understood and defined by the written record He provided, rather than by capricious congress critters and megalomaniacal executives, state or fed, eh?

Courts, from lower to supreme, have more often become subject to the arbitrary whims of judges, "which fear not God, neither regard man", as Jesus described the unjust judge in Luke 18.

"The fear of man bringeth a snare: but whoso putteth his trust in the LORD shall be safe." Proverbs 29:25

Way too often, people confuse putting the fear of man into someone, when what they call, "the fear of God", that has NOTHING to do with how God describes and prescribes it. This is a major snare for both religious and secular leaders who fear personal loss of respect from others far more than who they are before a holy, living God!

The Pharisees had exalted and served the fear of man, while pretending to fear God. Jesus asked the Jews who challenged His authority, "How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?" John 5:44

"For he (Pilate) knew that the chief priests had delivered him for envy.
But the chief priests moved the people, that he should rather release Barabbas unto them." Mark 15:10&11 The people were moved by their fear of the chief priests to actually release a murderer AND crucify their blameless Messiah!

One of the things Jesus came to do was to, "deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage." Hebrews 2:15

"The fear of the LORD is a fountain of life, to depart from the snares of death." Proverbs 14:27

Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them. - Frederick Douglass

confused...

Are you saying Jesus would support the death penalty or that I should fear that Jesus may torture me for eternity if I commit a capital offense?

If the only thing preventing you from killing people is fear that God will torture you, well, maybe you want to reevaluate your personal morals.

Check out http://ronpaulforums.com for activism and news.

Jesus was a victim of capitol punishment

Lest we forget the cross. I am not seeing your point about the death penalty as it pertains to Jesus though.

Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
www.yaliberty.org - Young Americans for Liberty
www.ivaw.org/operation-recovery - Stop Deploying Traumatized Troops

Victor, not victim, eh?

In order to fulfill His purpose for being here, Jesus said, "Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father." John 10:17-18

That the process happened the way it did, exposed the corruption in the hearts and minds of both Jew and Gentile judges. We were on trial that day. Though it seemed like we had the power to abuse Jesus by allowing false witnesses to testify against Him, (though we couldn't find the minimum of two who agreed); we still had Him whipped, scourged, mocked, and crucified.

"Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously: Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed."
1 Peter 2:22-24

Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them. - Frederick Douglass

Please rethink your pro-death penalty position..... here is why:

1) LEGAL MURDER -- Yes its the ultimate government power over you.
2) GONE is "innocent until Proven Guilty", --- thanks to the NSA & the Patriot Act, the burden of proof is now upon you to prove you didn't do it.
3) BACKWARD INCENTIVES LEADS TO NO JUSTICE -- There is no self correcting system within the "justice system" to weed out Prosecutors who seek to "win" vs those who seek Justice. Indeed, seeking to "win" advances your career, while seeking a fair and Just decision does not.
4) DNA EVIDENCE -- has time and again found lots of innocent people on death row. It stands to reason that many innocent people were given the death penalty for crimes they did not commit. I still think its better to keep a murderer alive than kill one innocent person, sorry, that's just me.
5) GROWING GOVT POWER never stops! The things that you and I can do to get the death penalty, INCREASES. You might think of the most horrendous murder, caught with bloody red hands, THAT guy deserves the death penalty. For that case, most people will agree with you. BUT, and this is a HUGE but, the hundreds of reasons for getting the death penalty GROWS and GROWS as Government Power Grows. I am sure the govt would love to just execute all the Gitmo prisoners and never allow any to live or to have a trial.

Yes, please BUY this wonderful libertarian BOOK! We all must know the History of Freedom! Buy it today!

"The System of Liberty: Themes in the History of Classical Liberalism" ...by author George Smith --
Buy it Here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/05211820

Take it away from the Fed Govt and let the states decide

I don't trust the federal govt with anything, but the states have to maintain order, or the innocent will be preyed upon.

I go further than that. Why

I go further than that. Why should the minority not get a say in this? If we "vote" it through the state, maybe 49% don't want it. Democracy is unfair. Let every individual choose their own way.

I am somewhere in the middle on this.

As I discovered the high watermark that was placed on the death penalty in the past I think we can compromise on the standards by which this act is instituted. Seems to me that you would at least need photographic evidence in this day and age to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that someone should be executed. We still are putting people away based on hearsay from one or two accusers.

I wrote a little about the standards below.

I think it is important to know that people can come to a similar conclusion for completely different reasons. You appear to get why Dr. Paul has come to his. At the very least we should be glad that states have decided these things and states will reap and sow the results of these policies, not all of us.

Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
www.yaliberty.org - Young Americans for Liberty
www.ivaw.org/operation-recovery - Stop Deploying Traumatized Troops

Great post AnCapMercenary

I feel like an insider when it comes to this issue and how it has now bridged the libertarian gap at least in our movement. We just had a local meeting with our rep from CCATDP which included the coalition that O'Donnell is refering to. It was good to see someone finally acknowledge this.

CCATDP was a sponsor of our YAL national convention for the first time last year as well where they were able to meet with leaders in the movement and hammer out the results that are being praised today. Now is the time to see some action rather than endorsements. The prize is to change 1 red state and watch the domino effect.

Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
www.yaliberty.org - Young Americans for Liberty
www.ivaw.org/operation-recovery - Stop Deploying Traumatized Troops

quite welcome; that's nice to hear! didn't know they were/are

actively involved in local politics via event sponsorships, etc.

wonderful!

though, truth be known: there's no doubt that Larry O'Donnell is only being politically expedient; he's a 100% GE warwhore operative, who only does this to get ratings (it's like an unwritten, open secret to all in cable 'news' biz: want spike in ratings? mention "Ron Paul"! LOL, and we all know how abysmal MSDNC's ratings have been), not out of sincere coalition building olive branch, unfortunately .o/

Predictions in due Time...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM

"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it's realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy." - Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul

Sure.

I try not to get caught up in the motives of our unusual allies. The point that they are promoting the cause is good enough for me. This is what Ron Paul talks about all time when discussion coalitions.

This conservative group is smart. They get it. They are working with Democrats, Republicans, and Libertarians to advance their message and are using the same organizing styles of the left that are tried and true to be successful. That's how something like this reaches the level that it does on MSNBC.

They have been working for Dr. Paul's endorsement for some time and have climbed the ladder of organizations to make it happen. There is much more to come so keep an eye on them.

Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
www.yaliberty.org - Young Americans for Liberty
www.ivaw.org/operation-recovery - Stop Deploying Traumatized Troops

doesnt mean anything

this guy supports authoritarianism. I am sure he is OK with the death penalty for foreigners (via bombings and invasions) as long as those deaths are to keep us safe from terrorists. I am sure that he votes for slavery via authoritarian Representatives. Larry O'Donell's words are empty.
The only good thing I can say is, MAYBE someone went and checked out Ron Paul after that segment...but, considering O'Donell's audience, they probably have already been told to think of Dr.Paul as a racist kook.

I'd rather have a bottle in front o' me than a frontal lobotomy
www.tattoosbypaul.com
www.bijoustudio-atx.com

Dr. Paul calls us to coalitons

Please learn what that means.

Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
www.yaliberty.org - Young Americans for Liberty
www.ivaw.org/operation-recovery - Stop Deploying Traumatized Troops

you must also be discerning

. You wouldnt build a coalition with Hitler because he was for property rights.

From Hitler's Wiki: Hitler's views on economics, beyond his early belief that the economy was of secondary importance, are a matter of debate. On the one hand, he proclaimed in one of his speeches that "we are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system",but he was clear to point out that his interpretation of socialism "has nothing to do with Marxian Socialism," saying that "Marxism is anti-property; true Socialism is not." At a later time, Hitler said: "Socialism! That is an unfortunate word altogether... What does socialism really mean? If people have something to eat and their pleasures, then they have their socialism." In private, Hitler also said that "I absolutely insist on protecting private property... we must encourage private initiative".

O'Donell will be lambasting Dr.Paul at the very next opportunity, I have no doubt.

I'd rather have a bottle in front o' me than a frontal lobotomy
www.tattoosbypaul.com
www.bijoustudio-atx.com

Thanks to our fearless leader, we can all change our minds

About governments killing people, as obviously before now we thought it was fine.

I can't believe that anybody we are up against really knows what libertarianism is.

Séamusín

Technically we don't agree on the premise but

the result is the same. I would even wager that your assumption on why Ron Paul believes in ending the death penalty isn't from the libertarian perspective that you have either.

Dr. Paul has said that the failure of the system is why he is opposed to it, the fact that it makes mistakes.

The left and some libertarians would be more concerned about the fact that governments shouldn't kill prisoners. This is also different than justified war which someone else mentioned.

Judeo/Christian faith talks about consequences for our sins. In the case of murder, it has long been death, but even then there was a strict standard (ie 3 witnesses) for the ultimate punishment to be justified. I think Dr. Paul is OK with that perspective. He explains coming around to this new perspective based on the fact that we have severe systemic injustice in our legal system as it pertains to rich and poor, race, and outright criminality. The American death penalty is rout with stories of abuse.

Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
www.yaliberty.org - Young Americans for Liberty
www.ivaw.org/operation-recovery - Stop Deploying Traumatized Troops

To be honest i wasnt the least bit concerned with why The Doc...

Came around on this issue.

I just felt a little put off by Lawrence O'Donnell's ignorance to the libertarian personal/political philosophy. He insinuates that now, just because Ron Paul said something, all the libertarians are going to change their views. Two Implications here:

1. Libertarians change their political views based on what their leader says or does. This is completely fallacious as libertarianism is a philosophy with coherence and continuity, not a political platform which is put together slipshod, by strategic alliances of competing interests.

2. Libertarians haven't already staked out a position on on the death penalty. This is just plane ignorance. Maybe not every individual, but as a general rule, the moral authority of a government is not greater than that of the people. If we can't steal, they can't steal. If we can't murder they can't murder.

It goes further than that, though. Everything from the cost, to the injustice is completely counter in principle to the libertarian position on government.

As for me, my position on the death penalty is simple. A just killing is done in the act of preventing coercion from being used to achieve anybody's aim. Not future acts, not past acts. For this I resort the same mechanism I use in the market, voluntary human interaction.

Séamusín

Right, and I'm completely

Right, and I'm completely with him. The system is broken and unbalanced. There is another group (it could be the same I'm not sure) that has been working working with families that have a family member in prison on death row that say they are innocent and have gotten a few people out of prison and death row by evidence such as DNA testing. I saw a special on it some time ago so forgive me for not having links or the group name.

There was also that pbs special a few months ago about the war on drugs and mandatory sentencing if you guys saw or remember. The group that is trying to get congress to repeal them.

Homeland security statement: patriotism is now considered terrorism.
I love www.isidewith.com shared it with everyone I know. If anything they realize its not just a red and blue idiot running for reelection.

Don't confuse thrown out with innocent

The Southern Poverty Law Center (and others) use getting murderers off as their gang initiation. They have tried and true methods for getting convictions thrown out.

In most cases these over-turned cases do NOT involve innocent people, but to the SPLC that does not matter. Their goals are not justice, their goals are "social justice" which is clearly double speak. Usually the state cannot effectively retry old cases due to poor record keeping.

Then the SPLC publishes "data" on how many cases were a "miscarriage of justice" and "discrimination" and how many "innocent" people were "wrongly convicted".

I believe you mean the Innocence project.

I got a chance to meet Innocence Project patient zero recently, a guy name Kirk Bloodsworth. He was the first death row inmate to be exonerated because of DNA evidence. They do some excellent work and are responsible for freeing hundreds of wrongly accused people on death row.

Check out this video of Kirk. He has a compelling story that will be made into a film soon.


http://youtu.be/qjAOw-n3CxQ

Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
www.yaliberty.org - Young Americans for Liberty
www.ivaw.org/operation-recovery - Stop Deploying Traumatized Troops