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What is the Libertarian Stance on Mandatory Labeling?

What is the Libertarian Stance on Mandatory Labeling?

Skip to minute 55:00 to listen to the debate. Joel Salatin takes the bull by the horns and destroys the debate.

http://new.livestream.com/ftcldf/joevsjoel



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The

word "mandatory" should make this very simple. Find out and decide what you want to eat on your own. Don't ask me to fund your food police state. Look at the complacency that the current system has bred, people just trust the label and think what's listed is all that matters. Government is slopping the troughs for the sheeple.

"Endless money forms the sinews of war." - Cicero, www.freedomshift.blogspot.com

It seems

It seems that the requirement for a government mandate enforced by threat of shooting people, throwing them in a cage, or penalizing them financially should they hold a contrary opinion, marks the notion as fundamentally flawed.

I'm sure this has been said among the 80000 comments

grow your own food inside, get creative

Buyer beware and consumer education are the best solutions

But the food processes have become so secretive and deceptive that it becomes hard to maintain any sense of the reality of food production.

Let's face it, you just don't damn well know anymore.

Little known fact: flouride isn't just in water anymore. It's in damn near half the supermarket now.

If consumers want to have flouride removed, phone the company and complain.

The company will respond by removing the flouride content from the label, not the product.

Just like after the Abhu Graib scandal when the pictures surfaced of US servicmen and women torturing and humiliating Iraqis.

They didn't forbid torture and humiliation. They forbid pictures.

It's a sort of Satanic solution actually. Good topic archer.

How do you know when a website leans libertarian?

When its users debate the merits of mandatory labeling for 5 days straight.

I'm not a Libertarian so could care less what they think

Bottom line, we have a right to know what is in our food and what we are eating.

If somebody serves beef but it's really horsemeat I absolutely have a right to know, if somebody is passing off GMO Corn as Corn, but it's really not, I have a right to know.

It has nothing to do with the free market

So find out:)

Ask. Test. Form strong relationships with a food producers. Grow your own. Grow for others and compete. Sue a producer who harms you.

How does your desire give you the authority to impose your standard on other people's transactions, dictate other people's property rights, and interfere with other people's ability to peaceably trade.

What unique characteristic do you possess that gives you the authority to dictate other people's private and peaceful activities?
Maybe you have some unique 3rd eye or spiritual connection to the almighty? Does God whisper in your ear what other people should and should not do?

If not, then maybe that's why you go to the government and beg them to aim their superior violence making machine at those who live in a way you find disagreeable.

Why not give individual liberty and the resulting accountability a meditation or two.

Duh.

You haven't thought this through very well, Joe.

Mandatory labeling will not stop an unscrupulous restaurateur from substituting horse-meat, regardless of the cute little "Heart Healthy" logo on the menu. Similarly, Fridays, the ubiquitous theme chain was using the poisonous methanol in their booze bottles, for example.*

Forcing everybody to test everything they sell for fat content and which kind of fat, is onerous and drives costs up.

Go eat at a place that tells you all the stuff you want to know, and leave my favorite restaurants alone.

The same arguments go for my grocery store.

* http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2013/07/31/nj-t...

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty" TJ

Horse meat is cleaner and healthier than beef

so it's not quite the same as GMOs but I get what you mean. To some it's like eating a dog.

You do have a right to know but the question is, do you take that responsibility, to know, for yourself and your own health or do you leave that responsibility to the federal government?

Seek out Organic produce and grass-fed beef. Let your wallet speak for you.

"We are not human beings having a spiritual experience; we are spiritual beings having a human experience"—Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

Not labelling a product...

...is not the same as mislabeling a product.

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

I don't get it

By Law (because Liberals demand the government act as their nanny/ police/ enforcer..) 100% Organic is already available. If that is what you want to wat, there are lables for you.

If that's not what YOU want to eat, why do you need any other lable?

Why do you need a GMO lable. If there is no USDA Organic lable on your produce or product why don't you care less about that?

I don't mean to direct this to you personally, because I think you are a very bright person, but I find it either a form of stupidity that I am unable to understand as I have NO PROBLEM at all finding USDA 100% organic lables, KNOWING BEYOND ALL DOUBT that if a product or produce does not have USDA 100% ORGANIC labeled it is NOT. Or this entire campaign is a globalist moevement that is making demands on an American company in effort to fold it (or move GMO into a specialized market (which part of me believes that "food as medicine" is where this is going and there will be GMO foods produced that will have added nutrients, doing away with the fortified products.

This was fascinating! I WAS for Labelling but after THIS...

how could anyone think that the Federal Government getting its tentacles in this matter would be anything BUT the licensing of food to the populations of the world?

On a local or State level, YES, by all means LABEL IT! But to get the Federal Government involved just spells disaster. Call it "foresight".

I don't really see this as a debate but rather one gives a short-term solution and the other a long-term solution. I don't see how implementing both couldn't work.

Thank you for sharing this. It expanded my views on this whole issue!

"We are not human beings having a spiritual experience; we are spiritual beings having a human experience"—Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

Who cares wat the party line is..... Whats your opinion?

Do you want to know whats in your families food?
Do you think you have a right to know what your buying?
Do you think the food producers, distributers and marketeers have the right to lie about what the know is in the food they sell?

Can and will you analyze the data?
What do you think?

"A vote for the lesser of two evils is a vote to keep things the same", Buckminster Fuller..
A choice for liberty is always a choice for liberty.

Answers

1 yes
2 yes
3 no
4 yes
5 The individual can have all of the above without government interference. One does not have the authority to impose ones standards on other's private and peaceful behaviors. That is why those who are for mandatory labeling, beg the government to do their dirty work for them...to aim their guns at those who live in a way they find objectionable.

Thank you for answering the questions.

In response to #5 IMHO, we are no starting from a free market position. The Government has already interfered. The FDA is systematically overseeing the poisoning of individuals for decades, and recently the judicial system has granted GMO producers immunity for their actions and distortions. The have also fraudulently distorted the definitions of labeling terms.

I don't believe for a second that calling for mandatory labeling with accuracy is begging the the government to do the dirty work for us. A big part of the the problem is that people have been lied to and deceived for decades about what real and healthy food is. And no the government is arresting local gardeners and destroying their gardens on their private property.

This argument is not starting from a level playing field. The government has systematically been involved for decades.

"A vote for the lesser of two evils is a vote to keep things the same", Buckminster Fuller..
A choice for liberty is always a choice for liberty.

If you want a reply...

I agree with your first and last paragraph in their entirety.

-Of course you don't believe that, otherwise you wouldn't do it.
-Yes, Ignorance and violence are a big part of the problem. Knowledge and individual liberty are the solutions. Figure out a way to innovate.

Each one of us has got to stop reaching out to that violence making machine. I commit to only disempowering government while empowering the individual. At some point we've got to live liberty and I choose now.

"And no, the government is arresting local gardeners and destroying their gardens on their private property"
-There must be a typo in this sentence but I don't want to presume where. Would you try again?

Regardless of what you meant in the above sentence please don't disregard that I completely agree with you as to your assessment of the situation.
:)

Correction: And now the government is arresting local gardeners

and destroying their gardens on their private property.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
― Edmund Burke

How would you suggest the sheeple overcome the deception, lies and immunity of the corporations involved?

"A vote for the lesser of two evils is a vote to keep things the same", Buckminster Fuller..
A choice for liberty is always a choice for liberty.

Let's brain storm it together.

I'll start with a few then you see if you can come up with a few
Ask. Test. Form strong relationships with food producers. Make a list of producers who make food the way you want-offer that list to others on the internet. Form an association of buyer's. Form an association of producers. Grow your own. Grow for others and compete. Innovate a technology that allows you to test food-like a litmus paper of some kind. Don't buy until you're satisfied. And sue producers who harm you.

This is just off the top of my head. Some are more practical than others. We can put our head's together and brainstorm even more ideas. And we can do it right here on this site, on this thread even. I'm game, I'll help.

Thank you for the all great suggestions

I believe this could be the launch of a very effective plan!

I have recently been elected to sit on the board of a 501C3, World Wellness Education. We are already involved in many of your suggestions and would like to expand our outreach and influence. I believe DP would be a wonderful way to help bring awareness to the sheeple by unifying awakened people on a local level. Thank you so much for stimulating a new possibility.

World Wellness Education distributes a list of our local (tri-county) organic farms and stores, host a food websit and a FB page. We also produce a local TV show interviewing people who she healed themselves from various diseases, using multiple modalities. We have a very strong emphasis on diet. We are also hosting our 3rd annual Taste of Wellness Expo in Leesburg FL on January 24th. It will have 63 vendor tables and about 400 visitors attending. Our founder has also written 3 food & health related books.
http://www.worldwellnesseducation.biz
https://www.facebook.com/WorldWellnessEducation

I am very happy to explore the participation and support of yourself and all the DP members.

Your suggestions:
Form strong relationships with food producers.
- And also food production technologies such as Tower Gardens.

Make a list of producers who make food the way you want-offer that list to others on the internet.
- We provide a local lists for local distribution and post on our website and FB page

Form an association of buyer's.
Form an association of producers.
- Such as a Co-Op?

Grow your own.
- I personally don't have the time or convenience, but I support the local farmers mentioned above for my 70% raw diet.

Grow for others and compete.
- Again see above.

Innovate a technology that allows you to test food-like a litmus paper of some kind.
- Such as clinical testing for toxic substances and unknown factors
Don't buy until you're satisfied.

And sue producers who harm you.
- That takes vast resources of time, money, attorneys, research, well documents testimonials, and case studies

"A vote for the lesser of two evils is a vote to keep things the same", Buckminster Fuller..
A choice for liberty is always a choice for liberty.

Well it sounds like

you have rolled up your sleeves to make a difference.
Would you care to read a short treatise on individual liberty?

All our real power exists on a local level.

Neighbors setting a standard and presidece for their communities. This is also where the true power of nullifacation exists.

Thank you for inspiring me to utilize the DP to help get this message out. We are doing great things with Healing, Health and Liberty.

And yes, I always enjoy reading short an simple treatises on liberty. Especialy when they are realistic an implimentible.

"A vote for the lesser of two evils is a vote to keep things the same", Buckminster Fuller..
A choice for liberty is always a choice for liberty.

please let me know what you think

I would love to hear what you think of my treatise.
http://www.dailypaul.com/298161/logical-proof-for-individual...

Congratulations on your organization and keep up the good work. I am here if you ever want to bounce ideas back and forth.

Interesting perspective

It raises lots of questions.

"A vote for the lesser of two evils is a vote to keep things the same", Buckminster Fuller..
A choice for liberty is always a choice for liberty.

Down-voted for asking relevant questions. Hmmmm

I am amazed that this post was down-voted twice for asking questions. Hmmmm. Either these question pissed off two people or one person has two accounts.

Either way, Questions can be dangerous to those who are afraid of the answers.....

"A vote for the lesser of two evils is a vote to keep things the same", Buckminster Fuller..
A choice for liberty is always a choice for liberty.

It should be obvious

Libertarian: One who advocates maximizing individual rights and minimizing the role of the state. One who believes in free will.

Mandatory: Required or commanded by authority; obligatory

Phxarcher87's picture

It is

but sometimes it's cool to get people talking about it. In the grand picture sometimes you already know the answer to the question but you ask because there may be people around who want to ask the question but don't.

Iron sharpens Iron, discussions on honing our debate skill so when we engage at work, church, gatherings we can persuade minds to the rightful remedies.

THE CLASS OF CITIZENS WHO PROVIDE AT ONCE THEIR OWN FOOD AND THEIR OWN RAIMENT, MAY BE VIEWED AS THE MOST TRULY INDEPENDENT AND HAPPY.
James Madison

I Thought The Monsanto Protection Act Passed?

Joe says it failed?

___________________________________________________________________________
"Bipartisan: both parties acting in concert to put both of their hands in your pocket."-Rothbard

Who will decide? Do you trust the govt?

Joel nailed this.

Note in Joe's section he talks about the FDA requirement to label orange juice as "from concentrate". Was that a health issue? No, it was pure corporate lobbying by the Florida orange growers union.

The FDA has covered up for aggro-giants, interfered in in farming, ENFORCED "peanut growers" licenses to exclude you and me from growing and selling peanuts (via threat of jail). Subsidize US sugar. "Real Cheese" labeling was lobbied for by the Dairy Farmers, NOT the US citizens.

Even if we wanted labeling enforced, we know for a fact that the Federal govt regulations are sold to the highest bidder, so why support the farce.

Every state has an attorney general that can sue companies that commit fraud. Every citizen or group of has the right to sue for malpractice. Every competitor has the right to advertise their salmon as eel-free. Unless...

Unless, the FDA/govt passes a law making it illegal to claim a competitors product is not "substantially the same" as they claim it to be. Guess what, that govt protection is for sales from the FDA to the highest bidder.

Take the govt out of regulatory influence peddling and put them into judging contract law and negligence cases and we will be MUCH better off.

Phxarcher87's picture

Do you ever see BPA free on plastic products?

companies have the incentive to put that on their products because people care. Now the masses are starting to care about their food.
NON GMO will become the new BPA FREE.

It's funny how Ron Paul always brought up property rights and stressed how important a good understanding of property rights is crucial in a free society. I feel like Joel is the Farmer version of Ron Paul.

Here is another Video where Joel takes the Libertarian road.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4ayABZoizs

THE CLASS OF CITIZENS WHO PROVIDE AT ONCE THEIR OWN FOOD AND THEIR OWN RAIMENT, MAY BE VIEWED AS THE MOST TRULY INDEPENDENT AND HAPPY.
James Madison

I;ve already seen it

I bought some corn tortillas last week that had "GMO-Free" on the package.

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"Fully half the quotations found on the internet are either mis-attributed, or outright fabrications." - Abraham Lincoln