14 votes

Live Bitcoin Debate Challange

Is there any credible DP'er here who is anti-Bitcoin that would like to do a live video debate so we can thrash things out?

I am sick of the endless name calling that gets thrown around in every bitcoin thread.

If you are brave enough to face me in a live video debate for all the DP world to see, then step forward and prove your case for why Bitcoin is a:
1) Scam
2) Ponzi
3) disaster in the making
4) fools gold or,
5) any other slander you can throw at it.

Sorry for the frustrated tone, but the passionate ignorance and lack of curiosity of the uninformed is just far too painful to read.

Not to mention slowing down the move to end Fiat.

***Post update***

Doggy-dog world has asked that I define the debate specifically, and have it in a medium other than video.

Here are my suggestions.

The debate topic

Engaging in the Bitcoin community is the best example of activism for the majority of freedom lovers.
I am in the affirmative. Looking for a naysayer.

To give you a heads up of my strategy. I will be employing the following chain of logic.

Crypto-currency, is the most powerful tool in the Libertarian arsenal to create a free world, and Bitcoin is at present the most likely brand of that tool to succeed.

As for the format. I dont care so much. If you want to make it formal
3 mins each, 5 mins each, 5 mins each,5 mins each.

If you are happy to let a moderator just try to make it the most enjoyable and entertaining debate possible, I am happy to do that also.

Or if you want to treat it as a Super informal Q&A, you can just throw objections at me and we can discuss them like adults.

As for the medium. I will be on video, because I think putting the debate on youtube will help lots of others understand the power of Bitcoin.

If you are uncomfortable with video, then you can just phone in.

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I always get nervous when

I always get nervous when someone throws down such a challange. You no theive down there reeding.

Lack of curiosity? I'll go

Lack of curiosity?

I'll go on camera if you can name the person responsible for the creation of Bitcoin.

Until I know where it comes from, and who created it I will remain skeptical.

Ben Bernanke just endorsed Bitcoin, but nobody can seem to pinpoint its origin.

Never be afraid to ask simple questions.

ITs just getting embarassing

Another one....

"Bitcoin is so not worth my time. I refuse to even have a debate about it until you jump through some token hoop."

The purpose of the debate is for you to throw all of your objections and reasons why you dont like bitcoin and I can respond.

If you were genuinely curios about the answer to your question you would have the debate. There you could get that question answered along with all of your others. You would either learn something, or teach me something and it would be useful.

But this backward of logic of.... "Bitcoin is not worth my time so I wont debate it, but I Will troll bitcoin threads and vote them down and call it names is just intellectually inferior."

Protect your assets and profit from the greatest wealth transfer in history.

The FED has been doing crypto transfers for years.

If Ben lied and saide it was bad when people knew better, he looks like a fool.

He might tell the truth, hoping that it would raise suspicion.

The FED spend millions on PR, hiring the best misleaders the industry has.

If it can be used to make mutually beneficial trades, use it.

If it stops working...

The life of a fiat currency is 40 years. Thousands have failed in the past, within 40 years.

Bretton Woods failed in 1971. The petro-dollar is 3 year overdo.

Gold, silver and copper have been used for 5,000 years.

Is it the right tool for your next trade?

Its utility comes during a trade. Speculation is risky. I am looking for utility.

Free includes debt-free!

It's opensource. It no longer

It's opensource. It no longer matters who was the originator. Half the codebase has already been altered from Satoshi's original spec. It would be more relevant to ask how trustworthy the current coders are. I'm having my doubts about Mike Hearn, though he did make some sizable contributions.

Good Answer

Excellent Answer,

and I can see the reason for skepticism about Mike Hearn but I think its more about bringing Bitcoins to mass adoption under the current paradigm rather than altering the protocol.

Bitcoin debate! YEAH!!

Great idea!!

Good luck!

Just plain 'Happy'about the direction the world is taking! Especially if we live to reach LEV [Longevity Escape Velocity]

Despite the endless parade of naysayers...

in the DP. It seems none are willing to actually debate.

Protect your assets and profit from the greatest wealth transfer in history.

Only because you insist on video

Plenty of people are willing to debate here, but not everyone is comfortable with a real-time on-camera style debate. If you want to give the debate some structure, come up with a proposition that you are willing to support, and start a new thread with it. I'll meet you there.

But I'm fuzzy on what exactly you're claiming about bitcoin. For example, would you argue that bitcoins are a reliable long-term store of value, like gold?

Or that digital currencies are a new, disruptive technology that is here to stay, and unlike every other new technology the first big mover (bitcoin) will be the biggest winner in that space?

Or that if people buy bitcoins for $705 today, the risk of losing money on that purchase is very low and the chances of making 10x their investment within a year is very high? Or even more than 10x maybe, since some people seem convinced that it's going to $100,000?

I know you're pro-bitcoin, but can you turn that into some specific claims you're willing to argue for? I'd take the negative side on any of the above topics.

Fair call.

I will answer at the top of the thread.

Protect your assets and profit from the greatest wealth transfer in history.

Bitcoin debate! YEAH!!

Great idea!!

Good luck!

Just plain 'Happy'about the direction the world is taking! Especially if we live to reach LEV [Longevity Escape Velocity]

great thread!

i wanted to jump in earlier but got food poison this week and could only manage to read a few threads.
i'm a big bitcoin believer but i do have some questions though.....

1) Scam
:tinfoil hat on: what if the cia really created btc and have a bunch of coins stashed to eventually cash out and crash the market or be very very powerful in this new technological paradigm shift we're entering? :tinfoil hat off:

what if satoshi/early miners/fbi (dpr) decides to cash out and crash the market?

2) Ponzi - well the early miners do have a sh!t ton of btc. over half have been mined (11 of 21 million) and the other half won't be mined for 100 years. i'm not really comfortable with that and picked up some litecoins just to be safe.

3) disaster in the making - yes, for the government!

4) fools gold or, - no but gold and silver is becoming boring. i just sold some silver to pay bills with. will be selling more this month too, be assured i'll keep enough to survive a zombie apocalypse though.

5) any other slander you can throw at it.
can't the fed gov seriously slow down bitcoin by passing tough banking regs. i know they can't stop it but it seems like they could harm the growth with draconian regulations.

bonus points:
i've really been getting into the security aspect the last few weeks and was curious of your thoughts on high entropy brain wallets?

i have other questions but that's all i can think of right now. i'll try and help answer newbie question in this thread too.

i love bitcoin!

Official Daily Paul BTC address: 16oZXSGAcDrSbZeBnSu84w5UWwbLtZsBms


1. To what end? if they want to steal money they already have far easier ways to do it.

2. Zuckerberg made more money on the FB launch than i did. Just because people in early made more money does not mean it is a ponzi.

3. Agreed

4. Bitcoin is more enjoyable as it is no where near as manipulated and precious metals markets. you actually get to see fiat collapse in real time.

5. Yes, but slow is not stop. Let them impliment their plan to have a wealth tax on bank accounts and watch how fast bitcoin goes up. Illegal or otherwise.

Protect your assets and profit from the greatest wealth transfer in history.

If you want to learn more

If you want to learn more about bitcoin, and even how you can make money with it, then check out my comprehensive guide Bitcoin Unleashed - http://coinx.us/unleashed


Pro: Bitcoin is a radically new cryptocurrency that might free mankind of fiat currency.

Con: Shut up.

Pro: Bitcoin is a distributed system that resists cooption by any single interest.

Con: Shut up shut up.

Pro: Bitcoin allows investors a new duty and regulation free means of transacting.

Con: Shut up shut up shut up I'm not listening to you.


There is nothing strange about having a bar of soap in your right pocket, it's just what's happening.

Tell me you understand how the mining and encrypting

of BitCoins works - How you have seen and understand the code/algorithms that run it.
How you are certain there is no 'back door'?
Who is authorized to change the code if necessary?
..and in the words of a CNBS luminary, "If something goes wrong, who can you get on the phone?"

I think a very good rule of thumb is that you DO NOT INVEST in that which you DO NOT UNDERSTAND.

Leges sine moribus vanae

Topically at best

but my motives are a bit different.

There's an old rule that says sometimes it's better to be wrong together than right alone.

There is nothing strange about having a bar of soap in your right pocket, it's just what's happening.

You know, people have friends

You know, people have friends who do know how to read the code. The code is really not that difficult to understand. MS Excel or Photoshop is probably more complex than the BC code. It's just that the code is done in a novel way where they solve the double spend problem.

The government would have to infiltrate all the friend ranks in order to pull off a scam in duping everyone. I don't think that people who believe this actually understand the concept of probability.

The computer knows how to read and execute code.

Load the code into a debugger and step through the code and watch what the code is doing.

Sniff the packet flow over the network.

Trust no one.

It's rocket science not brain surgery!

Free includes debt-free!

Yeah and friends have friends - FOAF

and you know how THAT goes.

Leges sine moribus vanae

True, but the thing with

True, but the thing with rumors and gossip, is that they usually circulate the negative stuff (where they turn out to be inaccurate or untrue). The human psyche is based on the negative. If the BC code was really that bad, it would have come out. I think you are really stretching it when you say the millions of coders out there would shut up about it.

What computer language is BitCoin written in?

If it is a computer independent language like Java, it will have to be 'interpreted' and compiled and executed in the native language of the host machine. This arrangement would put some of the BitCoin implementation beyond the control of (whom, exactly?) Even if it is written in native code (different versions for Mac and PC?) it still must interact with the OS - vulnerability again. The more I think about it, trusting your fortune to BitCoin is insane.

Leges sine moribus vanae

It's a crpytographic protocol

It's a crpytographic protocol just like any other cryptographic protocal you use in your daily life, think ssl, cellphones, etc. Language has nothing to do with it. The point, is that the properly implemented protocol is provably valid.

I've seen similar thoughts as

I've seen similar thoughts as yours on the bitcoin forums. From what little I know, the solution was to only download the code posted on the official website and by routinely auditing that code. The interpreter, if any as such would have to be used, would need to be audited as well.

But if you still have questions, it's best to simply ask them on the bitcointalk forums or on reddit. If you don't trust those answers, get a friend who knows code to look into it. You'll avoid the FOAF situation. If that friend can really prove that BC is unsafe, he'll be famous. I'll await the results of your quest.


If someone can show that BitCoin is unsafe

he'll be rich (and silent about it)

Leges sine moribus vanae

You are really stretching it

You are really stretching it now. Perhaps some might indeed stay silent. But ALL of them? Especially considering how investors will damn well audit the code by someone they trust, before they invest in it themselves? That ALL coders are greedy SOB's without morals? If people don't see how incredible the odds are on this, no wonder people can't seem to agree on BC or any other topic. Grasping probability and statistics are part of what's necessary in order to grasp reality. Without that, people just live in a different dimension. I even wonder how such people can function in society.

I think you vastly overestimate the number of people

knowlagable enough to ascertain the integrity of the code, much less the experience to certify its faultless execution (bug free) under any circumstance. If you think this code:
1) is error free 2) cannot and has not been secretly exploited and 3) cannot be hacked, you are very naive. Once breached, the touted anonymity of BC will render apprehension of the criminals and return of pilfered property problematic.

Leges sine moribus vanae

Where did I say it was error

Where did I say it was error free or that it cannot be hacked? What I have an issue with is only point number two, your claim that there's a deliberate exploit within the BC software and that there's a collusion of all coders on the planet to hide this exploit. It's not like the BC code is that complex or is akin to rocket science, the mechanics are relatively simple compared to MS office or photoshop.

It might be true that only a few coders might be knowledgable enough to ensure 100% bugfree code, but an exploit is something of a different order alltogether and WOULD be seen by most coders. Your claim that there aren't enough coders that can do this and that ALL of them would collude together and say all of this with a straight face shows that you really live in a different dimension alltogether.

I'm not sure that there IS such a thing as 100% bug free

code (in anything but the most trivial of programs). The argument that I was implying a "collusion of all coders on the planet to hide this exploit" is a splendid example of a Straw Man. If you want to trust your fortune to an anonymous system that, when hacked, results in your money disappearing down a black hole (the dark side of anonymity) with no one to hold accountable (who you gonna call if something goes wrong?) - Go for it. The Tulips are blooming!

Leges sine moribus vanae