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Jonathan and Jan on climate change. Part 1

Jonathan and Jan on climate change. Part 1

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The Greenhouse Effect is a Misnomer at best

and a complete fraud at worst.

Only Greenhouses (fixed volume spaces that prevent convection) produce a 'greenhouse effect'. If an atmosphere is able to trap heat via radiative means, then it will only serve to increase the Convection Rate.

The Earth's atmosphere is neither uniform nor static. Convection and the Ideal Gas Laws cause the average temp to decrease from 15C to -56C from the surface to the tropopause. All the wind on the planet is Convection. It takes massive amounts of energy to get 4,000 Trillion tons of air to move at the rates it moves. Much of the heat that is absorbed by the surface (land and water) and in turn heats the air above it is converted into kinetic energy aka WIND.

If climate scientists had to bet their life that they could prove Anthropogenic Global Warming via repeatable tests, then the only climate scientists left would be the so called skeptics.

Another fact that is ignored is that the Earth is currently right dead in the middle of the current Interglacial Period. Normally the Earth's North Pole is covered in ice year 'round down to the Latitiude of New York and slightly south in areas. About 80,000 years of a ~110,000 cycle is in a Glacial Period, the other ~30,000 years is an interglacial like the one we're in now.

Oddly enough 12/21/12 marked the end, or beginning, of the 26,000 year Precession Cycle and the mid point of the Interglacial. The last Ice Age (actually just a Glacial Period in an Ice Age) ended about 13,000 years ago.

"All the wind on the planet is Convection".

I chuckled when I read that. yes, that is correct.
the convection is driven by latent heat of vaporization. (H2O)

"The Earth's atmosphere is neither uniform nor static."
this is also correct.
it is more like a soap bubble blown up large.

I am curious as to how you came about this insight. are you trained in HVAC?

just curious.


Both Parents are Engineers

I'm a Systems Engineer (SAP) by trade, but I took several Chemistry, Biology, and Physics courses in college. I've always had a burning curiosity for how & why things work. I don't like taking other people's word for things and typically try to work through things I don't understand by myself first to see if I can grasp it without being led.

I didn't like the Greenhouse Effect misnomer. To me it was like explaining Magnetism as the 'Gravity Effect'. So I created a thought experiment where I tracked an imaginary photon from the sun, to the Earth's surface, and back to space. Traveling at the Speed of Light, it quickly becomes apparent that photons are rarely 'trapped' and more often than not they have nearly made there way back to the orbit of the Moon in only one second.

Then I imagined several photons, some that only made it to the upper atmosphere before being emitted back space, others striking water, clouds, etc. Before you know it I was reviewing the Ideal Gas Laws, energy transfer formulas, and Specific Heats of various natural substances. Recognizing Entropy as a given, it also became apparent that any rise in Surface Temp from whatever source would simply result in an increased Convection (cooling) Rate. The concept of 'Runaway' greenhouse gases became little different than a Perpetual Motion Machine. You might be able to theorize one, but building one is a different matter.

A physics professor of mine (Heat, Light, & Sound) explained that Temperature was really a representation of Energy Pressure and he was good enough to explain that while most of our book problems imagined Closed Systems, there was not such thing in nature. Lastly, when pondering Convection, it occurred to me that Gravity was a sort of 'Cold Engine' for an energy conveyor system that drags cooled air at altitude under recently heated air just above the surface. A Heat Scrubber that produces no heat.

Everything I had learned and was very confident in did not support Greenhouses that were not not fixed volumes or prevented convection, cooler regions with low Energy Pressures heating up hotter regions with more Energy Pressure, or Runaway anythings.

Pardon my brevity :) As for HVAC, I have a great deal of respect for you folks! If the Greenhouse Effect were possible without a Greenhouse, I'm sure you all would be making use of it :)

"an energy conveyor system"

Pardon my my brevity but it is late, I have a LOT of work to do and have been drinking.

what we exploit with the vapor compression refrigeration cycle is, "an energy conveyor system" in fact that is ALL it is.
we are just moving heat from one place to another.

the heat is moved latently. specifically Latent heat of vaporization.
that is what moves the heat and determines the volume of heat moved.
we measure subcooling and superheat only to measure the effectiveness. all we REALLY care about is the phase change.

nature exploits this same phase change in an open loop cycle.
the surface of the earth is the evaporator, the heat source is radiant. (that shiny thing up there) what this means is that only the surface is heated. the air is not. this is the definition of radiant heat transfer.
the condenser is the upper atmosphere. the heat absorbed at the surface is released.

friend, all I am trying to do is to give you another piece of the puzzle. Latent heat of vaporization for water is 970.3 BTUS per LB. this is a mindboggling amount of heat.

THIS is the power that drives cyclones, hurricanes and tornadoes. it is also the reason that it rains.

convection and conduction are secondary in terms of power.
I felt compelled to respond because your post was so cool. and yes, only educated people know who the hell or what an HVACTech is.

I have always considered "temperature" to be a measure of the concentration of heat. not as a pressure.
to me it is both an interesting and useless perspective.
voltage is a pressure, temperature is not.

I would like to talk with you about Plasma. I am wondering how latent heat might be involved....

check this out...I met one of them at the rally for the Republic.

Jan Helfeld's picture

thank for the explanation

Thank for the explanation. I hinted at the coming Ice Age -Glacial period in the interview.

Jan Helfeld

Love what you're doing

Keep up the good work and pressure!

Jan Helfeld's picture

Thank you for your support and interest in my work

Thank you for your support and interest in my work.

Jan Helfeld

Jan Helfeld's picture

Watch the continuation on Part 2

Watch the continuation on Part 2.

Jan Helfeld