The future of our movement: The Ron Paul voting block.
First off, let me start by saying that that which we think about is that which we make happen.
Ron Paul can win this election. I think a few of you out there really need to believe this. The fact of the matter is that we will not be disuaded from voting for Ron Paul but the nay-sayers can be persuaded. His support can only move 1 way and that's up. The other guys are going broke while Ron is running ads in the super tuesday states. I only see Rons signs in public so stop drinking the MSM kool-aid and let's let them face our reality!
Okay, that being said here is what I started this thread for:
The Ron Paul voting block!
We of the revolution all pledged to vote one way. Millions of us. Perhaps even as much as %5-10 of the voting population. Many have stated that their one vote will not make a difference either way. Well, how about 5 million votes? All the candidates would then have to take notice because we always have the Abstain/ None of the above option. We will have un-ignorable power and voice in washington.....Finally!
Perhaps we could even set a legal precident of allowing the Block to officially cast our vote for us just so there's no question of anyone not voting as pledged. We could send in an affidavit or something empowing the block to be our official represenative and cast our vote. - This part is optional and open for debate.
We need to hire some official staff and have on office in DC. Good, incorruptable poeple. Maybe we even start a think-tank. There must be a yearly fee to fund operations and ensure commitment( by that I mean you are more likely to participate year-round if you paid a fee). Perhaps we could start a pledge site now and be effective before the election in November. Trevor?
So this is my idea and I think it is our best chance for real representation. A real, official, solid union of voters.
Let me know what you think here and let's keep this going.
**UPDATE** What I am proposing here is totally voluntary. You would sign the Affidavit for 1 year periods. Each year, you have the option to renew or not. Also, we could provide for an emergency opt-out notice once the vote for who we would support is announced. I appecieate discussion here but if you have a criticsm about being "disenfranchised" by this system, and offer no solution, then please see my responses to comments thus far.
I'm sorry but
you first have to get the VOTES counted to have a voting block. It appears elections are for show there is no correlation between how people vote and the outcome.
Prepare & Share the Message of Freedom through Positive-Peaceful-Activism.
I don't disagree but that's a seperate issue.
My concern in this thread is what is the future of what we have put together here. Now, I know that if the votes aren't being counted, nothing else matters, but let's say they are for the sake of argument.
No, Wait, this could solve the problem. With the Block, idea maybe we have an internal process for registering our members within their state, then the natioanal HQ could say, Our 37,535 registered members in Washington state cast their ballots for Candidate X. There, no confusion, at least 37,535 votes go and are assured to be counted for candiate X in that state. Furthermore, if there were shenanigans do you think those who purpetrate tham will be more scared of loosly organized individuals or a massive group with a D.C. office?
Don't just criticize an idea, give me ideas as to how to make it work, or alternatives.
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A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history.
~Mahatma Gandhi
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A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history.
~Mahatma Gandhi
Definition
Currently, the movement is known as being a "Ron Paul Republican". There are several congressional candidates running as "Ron Paul Republicans." The trouble is that Ron Paul has officially endorsed only one, Murray Sabrin. The term is not well defined, and currently depends upon one man who is up in years.
A platform needs to be written. There are three options:
If Ron Paul does not get the Republican nomination, and if one of the latter three options does not happen, and if a write-in effort looks to garner less than a million votes nationwide, I'll probably vote for the Constitution Party candidate, assuming the candidate is anti-war.
You make good points.
But is sounds like you may be resinged to settle for a 3rd party candidate. My plan is to gather in one area and lets the Parties recruit us. Not the other way around. If we continue to vote for the lesser of 2 evil, thats all we'll ever have. I'm proposing an idea for those who refuse to compromise and settle for anything less than the best. Honesty, Constitutional fidelity, Charachter, Support for property rights...etc. This is an idea which will change the whole system and make them work for us, not the other way around!
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A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history.
~Mahatma Gandhi
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A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history.
~Mahatma Gandhi
I think this could be really
I think this could be really great, especially in the future. If RP does not win, the national ID card may keep us all from voting in national elections unless we accept one. That is, I think, where it is heading. If we give this power to a voting block before we lose it, it may be a solution.
Exacly, we have more power as an established group
With a reputation for refusing to accept 2nd best than as a loose collection of scattered individuals. In this block, I forsee it as mostly voting None of the above with the option for a candiate to come along and gain our support. That candidate must of course walk their talk or we will not continue to support them. Also we could threaten to drop them from consideration next time around on upcoming votes if they don't vote our way. In this way we gain a true voice. Otherwise, I guess we could just go back to complaining.
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A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history.
~Mahatma Gandhi
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A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history.
~Mahatma Gandhi
terrible idea
"Perhaps we could even set a legal precident of allowing the Block to officially cast our vote for us just so there's no question of anyone not voting as pledged. We could send in an affidavit or something empowing the block to be our official represenative and cast our vote."
That's a terrible idea.
We can openly pledge our support for Ron Paul or who Ron Paul tells us to vote for, but to give our vote to some body to vote for us is an absolutely terrible idea.
That part could be debated but you cannot agrue that
It would add legitimacy to the power of the movement. Look, this is how a union works. We don't want "scabs" per se. Anyway, It would be a year by year thing so you could opt out after a year. Furthermore, You have the CHOICE of signing the affidavit or not so you do not lose your pwer of choice. It's simply a pledge, don't misunderstand. We would be giving our vote to the principle of Ron Paul
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A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history.
~Mahatma Gandhi
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A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history.
~Mahatma Gandhi
It Adds Nothing
And threatens everything. Think about the minutemen who were sold out by their leader who pledged their support for Huckabee (and that wasn't even a binding vote!). Ceding personal responsibility and involvement is anathema to the message of freedom and liberty; additionally, it opens a door that will eventually be used. That door is a corrupt leader using the bloc's power to vote for someone the bloc doesn't support. Say a John McCain or Huckabee.
You are all free to do as you wish with your freedoms, but I hope that thinking people see the suggestion as a fatally flawed and utterly disastrous course forward. History has absolutely proven that power in the hands of a few is a perverting influence that leaves the constituents high, dry, and misrepresented.
Something cool I found, the Ron Paul Repository:
http://egocentral.invisionzone.com/index.php?showtopic=15324
You make a good point, however...
I implicitly stated that the poeple in charge must be uncorruptable and we must choose those who have passed the test. If the block votes for Huckabee, poeple leave the next year en masse and the effort dies. It commits suicide.
The members would have an internal vote for whom to support or, none of the above.
I appreciate your constructive criticism but....do you have a better idea?
I hope I have addressed your concerns here and addressed your issue. My goal is to start a discussion in the matter. But instead of criticising the idea as a whole, offer solutions.
It is important to note that unchecked power always corrups but we must be vigilant. I think this idea, if properly crafted will work and will help us make REAL change in this nation for the better.
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A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history.
~Mahatma Gandhi
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A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history.
~Mahatma Gandhi
Yes, but...
Explicit in my own post was the impossibility of having a perpetually-incorruptible leadership. The push for unions is a great case study for this fact. I'll put it like this: can you name me even a single powerful political group that hasn't sold its members OR one whose leaders remained incorruptible?
One of the reasons Ron Paul is a once in a lifetime opportunity is precisely because power holders and power seekers are so open to being commandeered when offered personally-appealing incentives.
I am not just trying to tear down your idea (so thank you for noting it as constructive), and I actually support your concept of a bloc (that is: coming together under one roof to promote and discuss our ideals). I just note that there is a fundamental disagreement between the purposes of this movement and a monolithic vote ordered by the leadership. We've gotten into this mess precisely because we've spent decades handing over our political power to leaders who make our decisions for us. As Dr. Paul says about Iraq, you've got to change the treatment once you realize it isn't working, [i]not[/i] do more of the same.
Your goals are laudable but saying "we must be vigilant" does no work...the same has been said about many organizations throughout history (including the founders about our own government), and the indisputable fact is that vigilance is never maintained. Besides, do you not note the irony of using a collective bloc to further [i]personal[/i] freedom?
The better course might be to reinvigorate the ideas of personal responsibility and individuality. If we can get people interested and engaged, they will take part and pursue those things in their own self interest. That has also historically been impossible, but I think we'd all agree, upon reflection, that we're trying to move away from homogenized, manipulated collectives, not closer to them.
Something cool I found, the Ron Paul Repository:
http://egocentral.invisionzone.com/index.php?showtopic=15324
I see your point.
And I'm all for staying organized via sites like this and remaining de-centralized. I just can't help but feel that if we don't do something monolithic like this then we will never achieve serious pull. Yes the unions are a case study in corruption but also, look what they accomplished. Do the ends justify the means? No but I cannot help but think there is something there we can use. Maybe if we tweak the formula a little......
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A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history.
~Mahatma Gandhi
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A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history.
~Mahatma Gandhi
Don't give up! You're
Don't give up! You're definitely doing a great service by thinking deeply about these matters. I would love -- and would wholeheartedly support -- an organization to attract new people and keep us all interested and active. Apathy slays change and fragmentation makes it unachievable. I agree with your reasons, but I think a mindless beast (which is what over-empowered leadership inevitably becomes) will only hasten fragmentation.
Just keep these ideas in mind and you might develop a workable solution: our foundations vary; we're of all stripes and types; we love freedom; we are for _personal_ solutions; and we do not all agree even on some of what seem to be fundamental issues.
That said, I don't think the voting bloc idea would be legal in a federal or state election anyway (so it's moot), but I encourage you to cast your gaze away from controlling and powerful bureaucracy and more toward something to unite and energize.
Good luck and don't give up the fight!
Something cool I found, the Ron Paul Repository:
http://egocentral.invisionzone.com/index.php?showtopic=15324
Well it's giving up your
Well it's giving up your right to casting a secret ballot.
In order for a Ron Paul voting block to be allowed, then you've have to allow a HIllary Clinton voting block, or a Sean Hannity voting block.
Allowing such a thing is to give up individual freedom.
Any power to be gained would be more than nullified by the power lost.
I'm afraid we have that now.
The difference is that they think they can divide us come election time if they knock out Ron. It would not be giving up individual freedom any more than joining the Army is giving up freedom. It is something you chose to do and it would be year by year. Hillary is not Ron Paul, she could not generate passion from grassroots like Ron can. All her money is big$$ from corporations. That's why this would be unique, You really have to believe in it to take part and join. Just like the $$bomb thing. If they wanna form a Sean Hannity or Clinton Voting block, let them. But I gaurantee more will be willing to pledge to Paul than to Hannity! Poeple may like hannity but this is something else to say, let him speak for me. Ron Paul speaks for me. He says the things that I believe passionately. Hannity and Clinton are pundits.
As far as your right to a secret ballot, I can tell you right now I'm voting for Ron Paul come hell or high water. Have I just given up my right to a secret ballot?
Clinton has a the democratic party establishemnt and name recognition behind her. Hannity has millions of listeners. What will we have when this is over? Let's not just say "this revolution will continue regardelss." and then not do anything to make sure it does. Let's put it in wirting! Now I'm not saying what I wrote above is the only way to do it but instead of bashing the idea, help me fix it and make it viable. 5% against two major parties is alot more than we've ever had.
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A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history.
~Mahatma Gandhi
----------------------------------------------------------------
A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history.
~Mahatma Gandhi
no you haven't given up your
no you haven't given up your right.
you could theoretically change your mind and vote Huckabee or Nader or whatever.
BUT my point is that we don't have to sign up for a voting block to have power and influence.
First of all, this only matter is Ron Paul doesn't win, which RP hasn't given up on, and neither have the vast majority of his supporters.
The Republican party nominee highly unlikely to be able to win this fall unless it is Ron Paul or the candidate has Ron Paul's support.
The sweet tast of hope has blessed my life through Ron Paul.
I'm not ready to give that up after one election. How can we stay focused? Are you certain that "we don't have to sign up for a voting block to have power and influence"? I'm not so sure we can be truly effective any other way. You see how they ignore us. How can the movement prosper into the future? We need to figure this out. If not through the voting block idea, somehow then....
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A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history.
~Mahatma Gandhi
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A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history.
~Mahatma Gandhi
Vote Libertarian Locally
An RP voting block could make its "voice" heard by voting for Libertarian candidates in state and local elections. Such a stance would pressure the Republicans to choose candidates who think like RP---or be "punished" by losing to the Libertarian Party, which now boasts about 1000 elected state and local offices.
This is a good plan and with
This is a good plan and with voter turnout being low during off-year elections, we could almost ensure a victory.
Yeah, except this movement has more than just libertarians.
And besides, thats been tha plan for years and It has not been effective. If we look at the libertarian 1000 positions on town councils and compare it to the big 2, it will look pretty ridiculous. Not to downplay these successes but It's time to go bigtime. Is this movement going to endure and demand attention from the establishemnt or fade away when Dr. Paul is out of the picture?
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A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history.
~Mahatma Gandhi
----------------------------------------------------------------
A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history.
~Mahatma Gandhi
I joined the LP back in '95 when I first hear Harry Brown on
C-span. I donated, I paid dues etc.....four years later I let my membership lapse. The LP is uninspirational and not extremely effective. That 1000 elected officials you speak of is often the lone voice in a town council or board. Frankly, the LP plays up any small success and ignores it's complete failures. I couldn't take it anymore. I dropped out of politics until Ron came along.
Ron Paul has done more for libertarians in 1 year than the LP has in 30 years.
Now we have "Captured" alot of poeple under Ron Paul and his campaign. Let's not let this movement fade back into obscurity because our candidate may not run again in 4 or 8 years.
We must strike now and capitolize on the opportunity we've been given. We have forged the sword of freedom here now let's quench it!
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A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history.
~Mahatma Gandhi
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A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history.
~Mahatma Gandhi
Great idea
This would give us national exposure as well. Let them know we are not going away. One possible way to accomplish this, is to sign up by precinct.
Then vote absentee. Copies could then be made of each vote.
Thank you, I really believe this is the right way to finally
Be heard. Right now, politicians do not respect us because they know they can divide and conquer. This will be a rock solid foundation upon which rhe future can be built. Look at how powerful the labor unions have become. Time has come for us to put this organization we have found to work in a real and effective way.
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A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history.
~Mahatma Gandhi
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A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history.
~Mahatma Gandhi
Let's not
This movement is about fighting against concentrations of power and returning power to the individual. Therefore I do not believe we should work to concentrate our own power in this unprecedented way. Instead, just provide tools and information for our voters to behave as a block if they choose to do so.
One such tool is http:/LibertyCongress.org which lists many liberty minded candidates and incumbents. Electing and reelecting these candidates and incumbents is the best way for our block of voters to extend their power.
What I'm talking about is REAL POWER.
I think we can all agree on Dr. Paul. This will be empowering the individual.
I am not proposing involuntary participation. You have the freedom not to sign up at all so I don't understand your objection frankly.
Join or don't join. You and the rest who don't join can see how much the politicians respect your individual divided voices while those that do can enjoy real representation!
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A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history.
~Mahatma Gandhi
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A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history.
~Mahatma Gandhi
pontifications upon your premise
In some countries if a candidate gets 5
percent of the vote then that party receives
5 percent of the parliament seats.
*
*
I think the best way to take advantage
of this 5 to 10 percent would be the
free state project. (see wikipedia definition)
THe 2 plans are not mutually exclusive but I feel that the free
State project will bear friut "some day" while this proposal can bear fruit RIGHT NOW - or as soon as we get it up and running. Besides, we have a winner take all system so.....
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A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history.
~Mahatma Gandhi
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A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history.
~Mahatma Gandhi
I would sign up...
....but I don't understand how it would work.
It would work like a union except....
Instead of striking, we all either Write-in or abstain or if there is a candidate which represents our values as Ron Paul supporters, we all throw our support to them. All our votes goto them in one block- Together.
No candiate could ever ignore our needs again.
If you believe in the What Ron has to say, Let's stick together and never have to compromise or vote for the lesser of 2 evils again.
We can work out the details but I see it working like this.
1. sign up.
2. pay a yearly fee.
3. sign an affidavit to support the choice of the block
Then, we are solid.
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A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history.
~Mahatma Gandhi
----------------------------------------------------------------
A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history.
~Mahatma Gandhi