41 votes

State cop shoots at minivan full of kids.

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Incorrect...

She didn't flee she was released...

NOTE: I am not advocating violence in any way. The content of the post is for intellectual, theoretical, and philosophical discussion. FEDS, please don't come to my house.

Video said nothing about her being released...

I'm not saying she wasn't, just saying the video doesn't say that. Besides, that is what she says happened. The video clearly shows her pulling away after the cop told her to shut off her engine.

I have no empathy for the police, they blew this big time but why would they release her then pull her over for evading? Also, even had they released her, why didn't she pull over when they started chasing her again?

Makes no sense.

This is case in point

"When ever the government uses their just powers to govern against their citizens in order to harass, impoverish, or subdue in an arbitrary and irregular manor that is in fact tyranny." John Locke

Notice in this scenario, that these people, who had not caused harm to anyone else, were forced off the road depriving them of liberty which they clearly did not agree to. Is that not harassment?

The police officer claims they were moving at 71 mph, which is strictly an arbitrary assessment. He also states that they should have been restricted to only moving at 55 mph, which is also strictly arbitrary. And the whole point of this is most likely to draw funds from the public in what is called a "speed trap". Is that not arbitrary impoverishment?

When these people did not agree to these acts to harass and impoverish them, their windows were knocked out and police began firing on the vehicle with deadly force. Is that not an act to subdue?

Not everyone is pulled over that travels at 71 mph here, only some are caught. The fines levied are created out of thin air for the ones who are caught. Is this not arbitrary and irregular?

The problem you see here is this is the act of tyranny. The problem with the police in this country is they actively perpetrate the tyranny blindly and ignorantly.

Okay....so what should have the cop done?

I agree that shooting in the vehicle was crazy, even smashing the window.

Should they allowed her to drive off and let it go?

If so, can we agree that no one should be pulled over for exceeding the speed limit?

Should we even have speed limits?

It appears, based on her testimony

That the cop had already given her a ticket and released her. Then decided to pull her over again. Maybe the footage released by the cops shouldn't be your only evidence in a case where a cop randomly shoots at a car full of kids huh?

Based on her testimony huh?

Clearly the video shows the cop ordering her to cut off her vehicle and she immediately starts to pull off huh?

If the cops edited the video, why would they leave the part where the one cop fired shots huh?

I'm not on the cops side for the way they handled it. In my original post, I was only stating how I would have handled it it I were the cop and all I get is a reply suggesting speed limits are unconstitutional so I asked how the person who posted that reply to my original post how they would have handled it if they were the cop and you replied with some BS statement/question that evades my question.

Huuuuuuuhhhhh??????

The idea of freedom

There is no authority for the state to regulate driving. All traffic rules should be suggestions, not laws inviolate. When one people harms another peoples' person or property then and only then should police be involved, otherwise people can exercise their right to liberty. That is what freedom means. Suggestions would just indicate the liable party in an accident.

So what should the cop have done you ask. The cop should never have pulled the family over in the first place. Think about the situation. When people get pulled over it was not their intention to stop traveling at that time. They probably have some where they need to be, in fact that is probably the reason they were driving fast. Stopping their travel then places undue stress on the traveler. A traffic stop is always a stressful situation. How many cops would perform traffic stops without any weapons on their person? How many videos have we seen of people getting brutalized by cops during traffic stops? It is a tense situation and does not need to ever occur. You may say well driving will be much more dangerous without laws inviolate, but evidence supports the inverse. Many places that experiment with lax or removal of traffic laws find out there are much fewer accidents and much smoother flow of traffic. Besides with freedom comes the responsibility to exercise that freedom safely.

I leave you with another quote that displays this activity as tyranny.

"When the people fear their government there is tyranny, when the government fears the people there is liberty." Thomas Jefferson

You get a little fearful when those red and blue lights flash in your rear view, I know I do, and that is evidence that there is tyranny.

Obviously Do No Harm

is not enough. People clearly demand thugs in uniforms with guns to tell them how to live and beat the shit out of them when they don't like what they are being told to do and are not injuring anyone.

Such a fine, upstanding people say ... there must be some rules ... these rules ought to apply to everyone ... how can we possibly all travel the public highway if there are no rules? IT WOULD BE CHAOS!

Do no harm? Do not trespass against others? Do unto others as you want others to do unto you? Do not initiate aggression? Bah, those are not rules ... they are merely suggestions and unfit to guide people because all people are not fine, upstanding people like us.

In order for us fine, upstanding people to be safe we have to:

Tell people how to travel.

Tell people when they can travel.

Tell people what they can use to travel.

Tell people where they can travel.

Tell people the manner in which they can travel using in specific means.

Of course we have to compel compliance because what good is telling people if they will not listen?

It is also our duty to tell people what they can or can not put into their own bodies whether it is food, prescription drugs, tobacco, beverages, or anything else.

We must tell them who they can or can not have intercourse with, when, and where.

We must tell them where they can live, what they may reside in, how to repair their dwellings, and what they can do on their property.

We must tell them who is eligible to work, when they can work, and where they can work.

We must tell them what they can or can not use as mediums of exchange.

We must tell them what forms of health care are legitimate.

As the fine, upstanding, good people we must exercise our divine judgement and regulate every aspect of all these other people's lives. Since all of this regulation is the opinion of fine, upstanding, good people we will obey as we naturally agree with it. We will support and demand the allegiance of all in their compliance.

Let us devise legal systems and institutions to preserve the great American traditions just authority derives from the consent of the governed. Is not the majority fine, upstanding, good people and do we not consent? Justness does not derive from the consent of any minority so long as a majority puts some words on a piece of paper called a constitution. The mere human act of a majority penning some words to a piece of magical constitution paper deems our trespasses just.

Let the standard be ... ignorance our our law is no excuse. Let us impose on the liberty of young people to choose their own educational pursuits. While we are educating these young people in our institutions let us not alleviate any of their ignorance of law by offering any courses of legal instruction. This way we can guarantee their ignorance while holding them to a standard ignorance is no excuse while compelling their compliance.

If some people rise up to point out our legal institutions are fundamentally dishonest we shall send forth our Attorney Generals and their armies of ignorant people to point out such gibberish. Just because ignorance of the law is no excuse and people are expected to know the law, no discussion of the justness of law shall be entertained. Our law is inherently just because we the fine, upstanding, good people decreed it to be so in our constitutions.

Despite that traffic engineers like Hans Monderman built in his lifetime intersections challenging all conventional wisdom of traffic regulation ...

Who cares about some dumb bitch going 71 in a 55 not following the rules? The dumb bitch should not have been speeding. Furthermore the dumb bitch should not have disobeyed the holy commands of police officers with kids in the car. Who does this dumb bitch think she is? Does this dumb bitch think the rules don't apply to her? This dumb bitch should be locked up for life and her property and kids should be taken from her.

The 14 year old may have

The 14 year old may have known, based on u tube videos, that it was a possibility his mom was going to be beaten or tazed to death. If he had sat there and watched it, people would be calling him a pansy. He may have saved him mom's life there. I am not sure why the mom drove off. Maybe she misunderstood the policeman, or maybe she feared for her life. They could have taken her plate number and followed her and figured out why she drove off.

Both parties messed up but

Both parties messed up but the cops took it even further. The mom and son handled the situation very poorly. The cop also sucked at handling the situation which made them react worse.

Anyways, I was pretty indifferent to both parties up until the one crazy cop decided he would fire shots -- irresponsibly -- and at unclear and none life-threatening targets. After I saw that, I lost all sympathy for the cops.

I would agree.

Mom was being stupid; Cops were being stupid. Then the cops escalated it to a level outta this world.

Both parties were in error, but the cops are supposed to diffuse situations, "keep the peace" not escalate them.

They are held to a higher standard; so overall, by the end, I'd say they are certainly in need of a much greater punishment.

"If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy." -- James Madison

what is the root cause of this???

Most people fail to look at what really is causing the problem. In this case I would say simply the lack of private property. The highways and most eoads arw public property thus giving the state a monopoly on road travel. If this were a private road the company would eithwr be su3d or lose customers.

Today we have bad cops bc we have public land. If all land were private then private polce that could actually face consequencea for their actions would be pulling peiple over and not these thugs.

Btw, first cop was okay. I dont see he did much wrong. Wtf was the other cop thinking??!! Wow. They should do an iq test on that cop just so we can know how mentally handicapped he really is to make such a foolish decision.

Police have given the general

Police have given the general public reason to believe that their life is in mortal danger of being killed by cops at every encounter with them.

Law enforcement has clearly conveyed this message to the public with 5,000 deaths by cops in the last ten years. Along with the tens of thousands of youtube videos of police torture, ruination of lives with fines, and deadly home invasions there is good reason not to trust them.

The general public now needs to always be ready to kill cops if necessary in defense of their own and families lives.

Until police and law enforcement culture changes for the better,
always be prepared to kill cops in defense of your own life.

Thank God the cops exhibited their typical lack of marksmanship.

It is a disturbing trend that any challenge to authority is now met with an inordinate escalation of force.

I wonder if Obama will come out and proclaim that one of those could have been his kids? Not likely as the main perpetrators of violence in this case all wore uniforms.

Cops attempting to enforce speed limits

without request for action from a member of the governed consenting to the action is not lawful power. The are not cops they are criminals claiming to be "law enforcement" Everyone should just stop complying with any criminal claiming to be a "law enforcement agent" but is acting without an accuser who has requested their services.

No compliance without direct identified consent of the governed. Ever! That should be our path of upholding our laws and we should hold those men falsely claiming to be "law enforcement" criminally and civilly liable for their breach of peace and breach of duty if they actually injure us.

Make the commitment. Take the revolution to the judicial branch. We are not their slaves.

The most powerful Law of Nature is Time. It is finite and we all will run out of it. Use this Law to your advantage, for it offers you infinite possibilities...

What Would Sheriff Andy from Mayberry Have Done ?

As a depiction of a old school Peace Officer, I doubt he would have taken the actions shown in that video. Andy's first concern would likely have been that there was a van full of kids. This wasn't a stop of the Chicago mob. It was a speeding ticket. - - - Yes, the woman is a complete moron. But what if that cop had approached her with a Sheriff Andy attitude - "Ma'am, you shouldn't have done that you know. Its just a speeding ticket and you mail in the fine. What made you take off like that ?" The situation may have turned out much differently. (Id like to know why that woman reacted in such an unusual manner. Most people don't do that & there's something going on there.) That cop was going to 'show his authority' rather than be a Peace Officer. He was smashing that window to get in that van full of kids and he was in a state of rage. And, the cop who fired on that departing van is an absolute dangerous maniac. Thankfully the headlines weren't "Three kids killed by police after a traffic stop for driving 16mph over the speed limit" Those cops acted in ways that would have shocked Sheriff Andy.

If you look closely at the video..

The cop who smashed the window is hit by one of the Rambo cops spent shell casings as he runs back to his car. He ducks and dives like he thinks the woman and the five kids could actually be attacking him.

None of these officers involved in this incident would be worthy enough to shine Barney Fife's shoes.

good point--

as a home educator, I can assure you that the money for such road trips isn't unlimited.

Getting 'hit' with a fine for speeding in another state is terribly expensive--

she should have known she couldn't get away with it; they would track her--

but she may have panicked, knowing she couldn't afford a ticket and still have a safe place for her children to stay that night--

I'm sorry she tried to drive away; it would have been cheaper just to pay the ticket--

it's SO easy to speed on a lonely highway--

the entire system is poorly designed--

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

Did he threaten to arrest her?

If so then the children would have gone to protective services. If she was in health care or similar as a line of work it would have ended her career forever. In most states no one will ever hire you in healthcare if your children have ever been in the CPS system or if you have had any domestic violence arrests because you cannot be re-certified. It very well could have been the end of her and her children's future she was faced with. happened anyway now.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

Yep, This is why Barney was only allowed one bullet

Because Andy knew he would fly off the handle and abuse them if he had more.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

This is the best comment here! (WWSAD?) Well placed analogy,

stated in its full force of logic and reason. This should pass 10+ votes easily. Hope the bump helps.

"Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern." ~~C.S. Lewis
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

The best comment I've read

This is the best comment I've read and the analogy is picture perfect. Please spread this far and wide. Great writing!

You're supposed to accept

You're supposed to accept being shot up by police like they did to the woman with child in DC recently?

I'd be fine if the teenager had a gun and shot the cop in the face for man handling his mother like that. I'd be fine if hundreds of cops got shot in the face in that same situation every time. Maybe then they'd learn the proper way to handle that situation.

More people need to learn to use their vehicles as weapons to run over the killer cops if nothing else. There should be schools to teach people how to do this.

TwelveOhOne's picture

Do you realize you're giving the Daily Paul a bad name?

I send people here to help wake them up. It doesn't help to see violence-inciting comments like yours.

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Why do you care if someone

Why do you care if someone defends themselves with deadly force against these unaccountable armed costumed criminals? I sure as heck don't. These pigs , like most police, are garbage and deserve any violence that comes to them. And since there are no real police in America to hold these costumed criminals accountable what is a normal person to do when faced with these psycos? I have no problem at all with people shooting police that have initiated infringement of another's life liberty or property. If police don't want to be shot, like the useless taxfeeder criminals they are, then maybe they should stick to the one and only job they're needed for: To apprehend an individual that has initiated infringement upon another individuals life liberty or property. A cop doing anything but that one job is just a useless criminal with a badge.

Mom is an idiot

First cop needs to be fired for totally mishandling the situation. Do these guys get zero training in conflict resolution - barking at the woman and trying to pull her from the car? This is obviously no way to deal with a scared citizen.

The 14 yo boy needs to be charged with assault.

And the cop that fired his gun needs to go to jail. What a moron.

+1

best comment

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Were you ever a 14 yr old jr high school boy ?

and had your Mom 'under attack'. Might you have tried to 'defend Mom' ? Or would you just sit there while she was screaming ? Yes the kid acted stupidly, but there were far more dangerous and stupid things done by the armed cops.
If the kid didn't have a record of problems before I would probably give him some slack and try to keep him out of the justice system. His mother is either a complete fool, or we don't have the whole story of why she acted so strangely.

I agree 100% with your

I agree 100% with your assessment.

The officers won't be "under investigation" for long, but...

...on a "paid vacation."

Why should she trust the man in the costume with a badge and gun? Aren't these uniformed people the ones that kill citizens and receive no punishment? Isn't she justified in her fear?

If the boy had a gun, I betcha he may have used it.

We are reaching a time in America where a threshold is being approached. At some point in the near future, cops may not walk away from a scene where they initiate force.

Who initiated physical force here? It appears he was going to handcuff her and arrest her. Was it necessary with all the kids in the car? Could there have been a different approach? Do cops have to quickly default to the use of force every time their "command" is not immediately obeyed?

"It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a rEVOLution before tomorrow morning." - Henry Ford