29 votes

Confucius on Confusion

“If language is not correct, then what is said is not what is meant; if what is said is not what is meant, then what must be done remains undone; if this remains undone, morals and art will deteriorate; if justice goes astray, the people will stand about in helpless confusion. Hence there must be no arbitrariness in what is said. This matters above everything.”
-- Confucius

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Thank you; thank you--

language and communication mean much to me--

and I struggle to be clear and use the correct words, and I know I don't always succeed; maybe I don't even often succeed--

but I do care. This is very true. If I care so much and make so many mistakes, what about those who don't care about correct language and communication?

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

Hayek wrote on this as well in 'The Fatal Conceit'

In a chapter labelled 'The Poisoning of Language' Hayek showed how Central Planners purposely bastardize language to confuse and control their subjects.

Society no longer means a collection of like minded and like motivated people, but rather a collection of people within a border defined by the planners.

Justice is not longer objective, but rather subject to the goals of the planners.

Liberal no longer means 'in accordance to maximum individual freedom possible', but rather one who aligns with Central Planning coercion.

When words become arbitrary, it is more difficult to communicate what needs to be done or not done.

"Clever people seem not to feel the natural pleasure of

bewilderment, and are always answering questions when the chief relish of a life is to go on asking them."

-Frank Moore Colby

I saw the best minds of my generation, destroyed by pandas starving hysterical naked

-Allen Ginsberg

Love it! Thanks Michael. Regarding the Socialist who just....

...won a seat on the Seattle City Council...

No surprise here, considering how liberal the city of Seattle is.

But this woman is advocating for Boeing workers to basically storm the offices of the management, literally take over the company, and re-tool Boeing to quit making war machines.

Well, she got the last part right!

But seriously, when you think about it there are many Socialists in all levels of our government (democrats AND republicans alike - you know; RATS like Lyndsey Graham who says foreign aid is NOT re-distribution of wealth!).

So in a sense, at least this woman isn't hiding anything.

I'd rather deal with the devil you know, than the devil you don't (ie the REPUBLICAN PARTY and the RNC in particular).

Too many republicans CLAIM to be "conservative" but most are wolves in sheep's clothing which makes it very difficult on we the voters when they TURN on us and grow the government as much (or more) than democrats (as in the G.W. Bush administration).

PS I'm going to buy that book.

"We have allowed our nation to be over-taxed, over-regulated, and overrun by bureaucrats. The founders would be ashamed of us for what we are putting up with."
-Ron Paul

Diamond Dog's picture

The story of America today.

what is said is not what is meant; if what is said is not what is meant, then what must be done remains undone


http://youtu.be/wfl55GgHr5E

The Diamond Dog is a real cool cat. | Reporting on the world from an altitude of 420.

As you please

http://one-heaven.org/canons/sovereign_law/article/161.html

"(xxii) The deliberate modification of English to being not only a commercial language but the primary language of occult knowledge and usage was confirmed by the massive undertaking in the creation of the “Authorized Version” of the Bible also known as the King James Version and the KJB or KJV. A further one thousand (1,000) words were introduced into the English language out of approximately eight thousand (8,000) word forms used in the text. Most significantly, the use of the Persian word God / Gad as the public name for Sabaoth, also known as Satan was introduced to replace Yehovah (YHVH) of the Catholic Church since the 8th Century as the primary deity worshipped, making the Church of England the reformed Aryan (Persian) religion of Menes, later known as Judaism."

If you question the validity of the offer of information, then don't question me, you can question the author yourself.

http://www.talkshoe.com/talkshoe/web/talkCast.jsp;jsessionid...

If the information offered fits into this discussion, in your opinion, then I can engage in a voluntary discussion on that subject matter, at your pleasure.

If you are a forum Troll, then consider moving your business to an appropriate venue.

Such as:

http://www.dailypaul.com/305219/trial-by-forum-jury

Thanks for the forum and the topic, well done.

Joe

Confucius Say....

Man who go to be with problem wake up with solution in hand"

And to back it up

Jesus on Confusion: But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation. (James 5:12)

Michael Nystrom's fists can punch through FUD.

Michael Nystrom's picture

Nice to see that people found value in this

I put it up last night, just before retiring, in response to shrader's comment on this thread:

Seattle Elects a Socialist to City Council; MSNBC Interviews Her - Kshama Sawant. shrader says:

What she argues is capitalism, is tempting to say is socialism, banker bailouts, political insiders getting special deals, isn't capitalism, but it's actually fascism, because private companies are in bed with the government. So she's arguing that socialism is the cure for fascism, which she thinks is capitalism. There seems to be a lot of confusion. People don't know what they're talking about.

Correct. People don't know what they're talking about. It's a mess, all because of the corruption of our language. Everything the language touches is thereby corrupted. Using the wrong markers for ideas (which is what words are) leads to getting lost in a dark forest.

Just as when the money supply is corrupted, everything money touches is somehow distorted.

But if the Fed is the central authority corrupting the money supply, what is the central authority corrupting our language?

All art is only done by the individual. The individual is all you ever have, and all schools only serve to classify their members as failures. E.H.

Was that a rhetorical question?

Who controls the Fed, the lawmakers in government, the major news outlets, the entertainment industry (in its varied forms), etc.?

TwelveOhOne's picture

Answer: DOE

The Department of Education is responsible for corrupting the language and corresponding thinking of generations.

I said at a former employer: "Words have specific meaning. Who told you otherwise, and how did they make themselves understood?" (It was an attempt at humor; there is truth in humor.)

If we cannot communicate effectively, then the work won't get done efficiently. It wasn't worth the frustration of working there, so I moved on.

My earliest remembered lesson was about proper pronunciation. "You can call it that if you like, but nobody will understand you." Thanks, Dad!

I love you. I'm sorry. Please forgive me. Thank you.
http://fija.org - Fully Informed Jury Association
http://jsjinc.net - Jin Shin Jyutsu (energy healing)

bigmikedude's picture

Funny, I've never heard nor read the Confucius quote

yet I have considered the very issue in thought many times. Language definitely evolves. Meanings of words definitely change. And these changes are definitely taken advantage of.

Michael Nystrom's picture

When I was little - maybe in the first or second grade

I first heard another older kid use the word "bad" to mean "good."

To a kid just learning the English language at the time, I remember being slightly disoriented by the whole thing, but I filed it away in the computer anyway: "Bad means good, sometimes - depending on tone, intonation and context. Check."

That was years before Michael Jackson's, "Bad."


http://youtu.be/dsUXAEzaC3Q

This oppositing of the language has only gotten worse since 1975. lol

All art is only done by the individual. The individual is all you ever have, and all schools only serve to classify their members as failures. E.H.

I remember a teacher telling us that when the language

is corrupted, it is the first sign that the civilization is going to decline. All these years later, I look at Congress, the MSM, et al, and where we are today. Frightening! Or... maybe it is the PTB who are in decline? One can only hope and pray that is the case.

hmmm...

Confucius says "Man who stands on toilet is high on pot".

Nice

My favorite...Confucius says "panties not the best thing in the world, but next to it".

Lol

Confucius also says "Man with hole in pocket feel cocky all day."

egapele's picture

"The Secret Power of Words" by Roy Masters

I just started practicing his meditation techniques (heard about him a short while back from emalvani).

Here is the book description:

Why words affect you so deeply

This book will teach you how to become detached from words -- your own, and those of others. You must be able to understand what people are really saying, without words. You were born with the ability to do so; it is as natural to you as the instinct that causes bees to build hives and birds to build nests.

Link: http://www.fhu.com/books/power_of_words/

OUTSTANDING! Congratulations Friend....

egapele, you won't regret the decision to begin the long journey toward salvation. It is the best thing you could ever do for soul. You will realize things about people, places, and things you never could see before. You will discover the peace of mind and joy you have been searching for all of your wife (life)

lol..

I'm so glad I had the guts to post the info on the meditation technique for all my searching friends on the Daily Paul.

This is my great commission for the Lord..

One down and millions to go..

BOOM!

BTW, Roy Masters' son, Mark Masters is the CEO of "Talk Radio" and a good friend of Sean Hannity and Matt Drudge. Both have interviewed Mr. Masters.

egapele's picture

Thank you!

In so many ways.

Great quote, Michael

I consider this a must read for everyone on this site:

http://www.amazon.com/Language-Thought-Action-S-I-Hayakawa/d...

I also encourage everyone to try writing in E-prime for a couple of months. It will change the way you think:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-prime

Here is a tutorial:

http://www.angelfire.com/nd/danscorpio/ep2.html/

“With laws shall our land be built up, but with lawlessness laid waste.”
-Njal Thorgeirsson

To be or not To be

That is the question,lol

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

In e-prime, it becomes:

To live or to die,
I ask myself this.

“With laws shall our land be built up, but with lawlessness laid waste.”
-Njal Thorgeirsson

Another interesting thing

Another interesting thing about it. It can sometimes force the reader to actually stop and mentally absorb the full weight of each sentence. I think far too many read with the subconscious on autopilot and do not fully absorb what they are reading. Sometimes "scanning" can lead to a lot of misread material. But in a long writing, E-prime can become a little too "Shakespearian" for most, lol

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

The language of bubbles.

Blowing bubbles is a happy time. Popping bubbles is sad.

Blowing economic bubbles distorts, where wages lag prices.

When that bubble bursts there is a sale, but the bubble money is gone.

The creditors collect their collateral.

Congress keeps betraying the United States.

Free includes debt-free!

Thank you

I could not let it fall. These are very important words for me and I hope you believe them as much as I do Michael. I have no idea why but I find I sometimes word things very bluntly concerning my feelings when I comment to you. I can never seem to find the right words and end up sticking my foot in my mouth and relay something totally different than what I intended to. Maybe it is because of your awesome achievements here and my subconscious has put you on a pedestal as a star and this intimidates and excites me to the point where I just can't put the words together right and they fail me. But this helps explain how I have been feeling and I hope you can forgive me for my unintended bluntness and ill constructed verbiage, my heart truly is in the right place but for some reason it fails me when I address you Sir. In the spirit of Confucius I needed to confess this, thank you for your virtue of patience Michael.

“If language is not correct, then what is said is not what is meant; if what is said is not what is meant, then what must be done remains undone"

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

Something that applies with

Something that applies with everyone, TO everyone

Thank you

I know I took these words out of context from what he intended, but they just applied so well to how I am feeling, Something just felt undone and needed to be corrected. Would you mind clarifying your point so that I understand it correctly? It would be very much appreciated my friend.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

Specifically im refering

Specifically im refering to
"I have no idea why but I find I sometimes word things very bluntly concerning my feelings when I comment to you. I can never seem to find the right words and end up sticking my foot in my mouth and relay something totally different than what I intended to."

We all do it, and we all do it to one another on different levels, vice versa, at some point in our lives, maybe, just maybe you might have rare occasions where someone says exactly what they mean throughout their lives, and if they are good people with knowledge and understanding of liberty, they are a treasure, but if that is the case i dont think it is very wide spread, and i believe alot of people are'nt even aware of it, or care enough for that to be a concern for them......in my mind, you say you may have done this with nystrom, in my mind, its a possibility that at some point nystrom may have done it with someone else.......i wont pass judgement, especially if they were in good spirit, as i have no doubt done it myself, except in circumtances where the manipulation of words is being used for a goal i think is very harmfull to the rights of an individual........NOT, mind you when someone is trying to look deep within themselves for the purpose of best communicating their thoughts, EXACTLY how they mean to, where one word replacing that one word you cant think of right now, totally changing the meaning of your saying, especially when your guilty like me, of not proof reading sometimes

Sorry for wall of text, and what i feel is a half hearty response, dont know if its because of my splitting headache, or a breather from "deep thoughts" i sometimes do for sanities sake......it might be both

In all of this, in the subject of what we are currently talking about, what i respect and will always respect and put above MANY things, is ones journey to better understand themselves in order to communicate better their meaning, reflection i guess, is what garners this respect from me in the sense of this quote or more precisely misquote

"if you think you know everything, then you know nothing at all"

Reflection shows me someone who knows they could never know everything

Ok, my thoughts are now leading to other areas right now, and my brain hurts right now, so gonna leave it there

Sorry if that was a mess of thoughts and words.......i think my good "deep thoughs" usually come after being inspired by someone else's words, quick and easy they come, the only hard part is trying to get them down on "paper" before i forget the same way i thought them, i guess thats more testament to a bad memory then anything else :), oh, and it usually inspires my .....comedic side, should i be so bold to say, that i HAVE a comedic side......not really someone can claim but be given....by a chuckle :)

No, you did good

You did good with it all, your wall of words, your kindness, and your understanding. I thank you very much for the time to share with me and I do indeed feel better about it, thank you! I'm troubled about your headache though, I do hope it leaves you soon my friend.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.